the new yankee workshop would never make it today - discuss....

[jeff norris 2011]

I learned how to woodwork in large part thanks to 'Norm' and I was heavily influenced by the
NYWS. I can't walk into the shop without hearing in my head "there is no more important safety rule, then to wear these: 'safety glasses'" and of course I always wear them.

This was largely pre-youtube, and I wonder with so many options to watch and learn woodworking now, if a show like NYWS could make it?

I guess as an off shoot are the YouTube shows, bad for woodworking? I enjoy some of them, but it nit unusual to see some very risky use of tools and little to no explanation about safety.

[Brian Tymchak]

YouTube allows anyone regardless of skill, experience, or other qualification to put something out for the world to see. The shows like NYWS, Rough Cut, Woodsmith, etc on TV essentially guarantee the skills and experience part. Rough Cut with Tom McLaughlin has been rebranded by Fine Woodworking (due to a lawsuit) as Classic Woodworking, but I have not found it yet on my local PBS station. Season 1 shows are available to members on Fine Woodworking's site Looking forward to watching new shows again.

[Derek Arita]

Couldn't agree with you more. If it weren't for Norm, I would never have gotten into woodworking like I have. Before him, I couldn't even make a square box. It always amazes me, how much I learned just from watching his show.
Some of the things I see on YT drives me nuts. Even with poor video quality, I can see joints not fitting properly, simple procedures not followed, yet this is what an entire generation of woodworkers is learning from. As with many things in our current world, I think the internet has done a ton of harm to woodworking. I think it's a lot easier to learn from scratch, than to unlearn the bad.

[Erik Loza]

...I guess as an off shoot are the YouTube shows, bad for woodworking? I enjoy some of them, but it nit unusual to see some very risky use of tools and little to no explanation about safety.

I suggest you never go into a commercial shop. It's almost as if the first sentence of the user's manual reads, "Immediately remove and discard any guards you find".

Erik

[ChrisA Edwards]

Norm's shows were great, but watching him build stuff, I just couldn't afford the $10K worth of tools, used on the project, well at least not back then.

I watch the others shows, on PBS, when I can find them and enjoy them very much.

But I must admit, YouTube is far more educational. Pretty much any tool has reviews. I spend a lot of time reading this forum, discovering a new tool or technique discussed and then going over to YouTube to watch several videos on the related subject, which often leads to something else new that I was unaware of.

Although I did a couple of hands on classes on wood turning, there are a lot of great instructional videos, many from folk on this forum, that fill in lots of gaps in areas that I either forget or were not covered in my brief hands on classes.

Just prior to Christmas, I turned 4 bowls for presents. I knew nothing of buffing on a lathe, three or four Youtube videos got me in the right direction for the tooling I needed and I followed the techniques presented and my bowls look great.

Last week, I decided to make a small project that needed a thin base, so I learnt all about veneering. Project supplies arrive tomorrow (thanks to reference from this forum).

It just amazes me how many people, and the age ranges, actually wood work and also have the ability, equipment and time to produce quality informational videos.

Yes, you find the odd clunker video, but if you have any common sense around power tools, it's easy to recognize when someone is presenting or operating in a dangerous or impractical way.

[Patrick Walsh]

I wasn’t gonna say anything but that’s also the first thing I thought.

I actually have a running joke about that american workshop show going with my mother. From time to time we have watched it together in don’t know why..

But anyway her nickname has become Susie when in the shop and prior to staring every machine I say aloud, “ok let’s make some cuts. And always remember your eye and ear protection”.

I do the same at work form time to time but I have yet to meet any other pro that actually watches any of the woodworking shows.

My opinion is I find much higher quality content regarding skill and execution online and on YouTube than I ever have on this old house or NYW..

Actually quite often I watch that show lately and find myself saying “he did not just do that, what a hack”..

I know I’m gonna continue to not make friends as who do I think I am but you know that is what I think and I’m not ashamed to say so.


I suggest you never go into a commercial shop. It's almost as if the first sentence of the user's manual reads, "Immediately remove and discard any guards you find".

Erik

[Bill Dufour]

My option of Utube videos is they are made by people who can not formulate a logical thought or use words to explain what they are doing. They are basically stream of consciousness in the shop. If they can not write out what they are doing and why they make a video instead. A good video like Norms, can be understood even if the picture is blank. On a utube videos the camera work is shaky because they do not know what they should be focused on anyway. They would be better if the sound was dubbed in after the filming but then they would. have to know what they are talking about to begin with.
This is still the reason that Disney movies are still the best. First they come up with a plot and good writing. Then good actors, write some good songs if needed, plan it all out, then finally film the movies. After that is all done they make some toys to sell.
Ijn asia step one is design some toys. then make a movie using these toys to help sell more toys. Then come up with some lines and lastly a plot, if needed.

[Tim M Tuttle]

My option of Utube videos is they are made by people who can not formulate a logical thought or use words to explain what they are doing. They are basically stream of consciousness in the shop. If they can not write out what they are doing and why they make a video instead. A good video like Norms, can be understood even if the picture is blank. On a utube videos the camera work is shaky because they do not know what they should be focused on anyway. They would be better if the sound was dubbed in after the filming but then they would. have to know what they are talking about to begin with.
This is still the reason that Disney movies are still the best. First they come up with a plot and good writing. Then good actors, write some good songs if needed, plan it all out, then finally film the movies. After that is all done they make some toys to sell.
Ijn asia step one is design some toys. then make a movie using these toys to help sell more toys. Then come up with some lines and lastly a plot, if needed.You've described SOME YouTube woodworking videos. There are a lot of videos on YouTube with excellent production quality and solid instruction and a lot of the time the creators will answer any questions you have via comments, email or IG/Facebook messaging.

[Tim M Tuttle]

Couldn't agree with you more. If it weren't for Norm, I would never have gotten into woodworking like I have. Before him, I couldn't even make a square box. It always amazes me, how much I learned just from watching his show.
Some of the things I see on YT drives me nuts. Even with poor video quality, I can see joints not fitting properly, simple procedures not followed, yet this is what an entire generation of woodworkers is learning from. As with many things in our current world, I think the internet has done a ton of harm to woodworking. I think it's a lot easier to learn from scratch, than to unlearn the bad. . The internet, particularly YouTube, has educated way more woodworkers than Norm could ever dream of. Just the ease of access alone. I watched Norm growing up but it was only if I caught it while it was on. I can go over to YouTube and watched thousands of hours of quality woodworking programming. Millions of hours if I don't care about quality.

I've learned way more from YouTube than any other medium. Yeah, there is a lot of crap but there is also a lot of great content on YouTube and if you supplement YouTube with other sources you can easily sift through what is good and what is bad.

[Derek Arita]

You've described SOME YouTube woodworking videos. There are a lot of videos on YouTube with excellent production quality and solid instruction and a lot of the time the creators will answer any questions you have via comments, email or IG/Facebook messaging.

Exactly...but are you watching the videos that give good advice or are you watching the ones that give bad advice? That's the question. We know which ones show good practice, but if you're just starting out or looking to start, there's no way you would know, because no one is weeding out the bad ones. That's the problem.

[Carl Crout]

. The internet, particularly YouTube, has educated way more woodworkers than Norm could ever dream of.

I disagree, a lot of YouTube is full of bad safety practices, bad technique and bad advice -that's not the definition of education

I grew up with TOH, NYW and the Woodwright's Shop. The only thing wrong with any of them is that when Norm got a new tool, whether it be PC biscuit joiner, or 8" Delta jointer or something else, everybody wanted one. The advertisers on that show were happy campers

[Tim M Tuttle]

I disagree, a lot of YouTube is full of bad safety practices, bad technique and bad advice -that's not the definition of education

I grew up with TOH, NYW and the Woodwright's Shop. The only thing wrong with any of them is that when Norm got a new tool, whether it be PC biscuit joiner, or 8" Delta jointer or something else, everybody wanted one. The advertisers on that show were happy campersYou're implying that anyone that gets educated in woodworking via YouTube has bad safety practices. Other than high school shop 20+ years ago the vast majority of my woodworking education has been on YouTube and I'd venture to guess that I am on the safer side than most when it comes to woodworking. Like I said, when you watch a lot of it, it's easy to sift through the bad. And just because you are unsafe doesnt mean you are a bad woodworker. I'd venture to guess that there are a lot of incredible woodworkers out there who are unsafe. Hell, John Heisz has forgotten more than I'll ever know and he's the most unsafe person I've ever seen.

[Richard Coers]

Norm single handedly built the brad nailer industry, and tripled the amount of wood glue sold in the United States. That guy would have built this furniture in half the time if he didn't have all that glue to scrub off!

[Randy Heinemann]

There are way more resources available today than when I began woodworking in the mid-1970's. I appreciate access to YouTube, forums, and various other online sites and do get a lot from all of them. The problem is that, if I were a beginner, it would be difficult to filter out the videos that didn't provide the best guidance on joints, squaring up lumber, sanding, finishing, etc. With Norm, you always knew that, while there might be other ways of woodworking, Norm's way would definitely yield a good finished product. The same holds true for most books that have been around for awhile. They wouldn't have survived if they promoted improper techniques. That reliability is missing on the internet because it's too easy to just put a video out there and not know everything you need to know. So, for experienced woodworkers looking for a resource to get supplement existing knowledge and experience, it's a great place to go. For beginners it's just not completely reliable meaning you have to sort through the videos to make sure you get the right answer.

[roger wiegand]

An interesting, and I expect generational, divide. I grew up with, first and foremost, a subscription to Fine Woodworking, Norm as my TV teacher, and rec.woodworking on Arpanet and later Usenet as my source for diverse opinions (you guys are pussycats by comparison!). I learned from all of them, now I've added Youtube pretty heavily to the mix, for all of my hobbies and interests. (Well, I've never gone to youtube as a source for information on molecular genetics).

I find that if you watch 4-5 videos on a given topic, whether it be woodworking related, a photographic technique, how to do some complex manipulation in Excel, or how to build a wood-fired pizza oven, you can pretty quickly figure out who's competent and who's not, even knowing nothing about the topic when you begin exploration. Most safety stuff is pretty obvious if you have any grasp of Newtonian physics and basic chemistry, and it's crystal clear which youtube folks have no such clue. So I use it as a rich, diverse source of information and ignore the morons. It doesn't seem very hard, and I've learned a ton on just about every topic I've encountered.

[Steve Demuth]

Couldn't agree with you more. If it weren't for Norm, I would never have gotten into woodworking like I have. Before him, I couldn't even make a square box. It always amazes me, how much I learned just from watching his show.
Some of the things I see on YT drives me nuts. Even with poor video quality, I can see joints not fitting properly, simple procedures not followed, yet this is what an entire generation of woodworkers is learning from. As with many things in our current world, I think the internet has done a ton of harm to woodworking. I think it's a lot easier to learn from scratch, than to unlearn the bad.

I have garnered many useful ideas and insights from youtube videos, but you have to approach them with some intelligence and skepticism. Some are useful only to provide insight into how not to do things - in several cases I've observed behavior that, viewed from the God's eye of the GoPro are clearly dangerous, and simultaneously recognized something I have or might have done. Lesson learned. Some are utterly useless, but that is generally apparent by the 30 second mark or so. Youtube posters who don't care enough to actually think about what they are going to say, and prepare their work area and tools to show what they are actually doing, probably not worth the watch. And a few are absolute gems of education and good ideas.

[Daniel Dioguardi]

I also loved watching NYW, but I really love learning about techniques people are using on Youtube. And one thing that really makes the Internet an interesting place in that if someone is using bad technique, it is almost a certainty that lots of people are commenting on the video with criticism and suggestions. Sometimes you can learn more from the comments than you did from the video. It almost corrects itself.. in a weird way.. and some commentary will likely even point you to other videos to watch that may have better technique

[jeff norris 2011]

There are way more resources available today than when I began woodworking in the mid-1970's. I appreciate access to YouTube, forums, and various other online sites and do get a lot from all of them. The problem is that, if I were a beginner, it would be difficult to filter out the videos that didn't provide the best guidance on joints, squaring up lumber, sanding, finishing, etc. With Norm, you always knew that, while there might be other ways of woodworking, Norm's way would definitely yield a good finished product. The same holds true for most books that have been around for awhile. They wouldn't have survived if they promoted improper techniques. That reliability is missing on the internet because it's too easy to just put a video out there and not know everything you need to know. So, for experienced woodworkers looking for a resource to get supplement existing knowledge and experience, it's a great place to go. For beginners it's just not completely reliable meaning you have to sort through the videos to make sure you get the right answer.

Without naming names, I watched on YouTube a couple running a woodworking business. They are clueless about some of the basics. They were using big box lumber and cross grain glue ups. The stuff they are building should blow apart in a month after the lumber dries.

Then another guy, a pro - makes nice stuff, great joinery but scary as heck to watch the way he uses his table saw. He looks destine for the 9 finger club. I cringe every time I think about new woodworkers learning from him.

[jeff norris 2011]

An interesting, and I expect generational, divide. I grew up with, first and foremost, a subscription to Fine Woodworking, Norm as my TV teacher, and rec.woodworking on Arpanet and later Usenet as my source for diverse opinions (you guys are pussycats by comparison!). I learned from all of them, now I've added Youtube pretty heavily to the mix, for all of my hobbies and interests. (Well, I've never gone to youtube as a source for information on molecular genetics).

I find that if you watch 4-5 videos on a given topic, whether it be woodworking related, a photographic technique, how to do some complex manipulation in Excel, or how to build a wood-fired pizza oven, you can pretty quickly figure out who's competent and who's not, even knowing nothing about the topic when you begin exploration. Most safety stuff is pretty obvious if you have any grasp of Newtonian physics and basic chemistry, and it's crystal clear which youtube folks have no such clue. So I use it as a rich, diverse source of information and ignore the morons. It doesn't seem very hard, and I've learned a ton on just about every topic I've encountered.

Sounds like we came up the same way. As it some of the better more skilled WW showing unsafe ways of doing things I don't think it always so easy. Norm and the like, seemed to understand the responsibility of showing the safest technique.

[Patrick Walsh]

Idk,

I’ll use few words on this one and let the videos do the talking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxw5gl1Z2Yk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMWTEyYV7CA


All this safety talk makes me think of this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtngFEE5t1E

Your ok with having nine fingers so am I. I’ll eve pick em up outa the dust pile under the saw and take you to the hospital.

[johnny means]

Idk,

I’ll use few words on this one and let the videos do the talking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxw5gl1Z2Yk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMWTEyYV7CA


All this safety talk makes me think of this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtngFEE5t1E

Your ok with having nine fingers so am I. I’ll eve pick em up outa the dust pile under the saw and take you to the hospital.
Really, thirty minutes of video.:confused:

[Jeff Caulk]

I think it's been in my blood for a long time

I had intro woodshop for 6 weeks in 7th grade, and took a full semester of woodshop in 8th grade, and spent the second semester in 8th grade as the wood shop aide.

NYWS in the 90s took me back to those days, and I found myself refinishing Good Will furniture in the first lean years after college.

Started my personal shop adventure for real in 2002.

I still go back to NYWS and watch Norm. He was really the only game in town pre internet, pre YouTube. I do find myself watching YouTube vids at night quite bbn often. And surfing this and other sites.

I think I do some things differently than Norm, sometimes I think I do some things a bit better. But I have the benefit of new techniques, technology and the Internet, and my memories of Norm are cemented in the 90s.

[Patrick Walsh]

They are good videos. Totally worth watching.

Especially the first one it’s a riot..


Really, thirty minutes of video.:confused:

[al heitz]

Not to sound too critical, but this is how I watch many of the videos on the internet. I worked in audio visual aids as a high school teacher for many years. I was also in charge of public relations. My experience was that if the image didn't support the message, it needed to be changed. Likewise, the text needs to fit the image. When I view a new video, I often watch it first with the sound off. Does the video give me a good idea of the project? It's a real lesson in how not to produce a video. Often a major portion of the video is useless. Then I watch the video again with sound on and see how much of the text is actually informative. With luck I can put the two together to learn something.

[Rick Potter]

I will watch and enjoy almost any video or TV show on woodworking or cars. I remember seeing some programs, way before Norm, where they only used a ShopSmith (in living Black and White).

I agree with Daniel. The really bad, or unsafe YouTube's have many comments from people who know better, and are quick to point out unsafe or just bad woodworking practices, so that does make them an unintentional 'safety' video.

Anybody remember the video of a guy in the jungle, with no arms, who did woodworking?

[Rod Sheridan]

I really liked Norm and I think he was very successful at popularizing woodworking.

That said, his lack of emphasis on safety was an awful approach to an instructional show, he really should have learned to use a guard and a Unifence on his table saw.

I’ve watched the new Rough Cuts show and really like it except for the lack of guard on the Felder saw and Tom’s use of a crosscut sled on a format saw. Maybe he’s trying to make it look like a cabinet saw?

I think a show such as Tom’s or Norm’s would be successful today.

YouTube has video ranging from the really awful to the wonderful....Rod

[Rod Sheridan]

I suggest you never go into a commercial shop. It's almost as if the first sentence of the user's manual reads, "Immediately remove and discard any guards you find".

Erik

Very true, however there are some shops where that approach gets you enrolled in the safety training program and under close supervision for a period of time.

A couple of months ago I was in a customers shop, I’ve never seen such a clean, organized shop with all guards in place, it was very noticeable....Rod

[Carl Crout]

I really liked Norm and I think he was very successful at popularizing woodworking.

That said, his lack of emphasis on safety was an awful approach to an instructional show, he really should have learned to use a guard and a Unifence on his table saw.

I’ve watched the new Rough Cuts show and really like it except for the lack of guard on the Felder saw and Tom’s use of a crosscut sled on a format saw. Maybe he’s trying to make it look like a cabinet saw?

I think a show such as Tom’s or Norm’s would be successful today.

YouTube has video ranging from the really awful to the wonderful....Rod

The guards were off on NYW so you could see what he was doing. The best I remember it stated that at the front or end of each show

[Jim Becker]

I can say that NYW (and ToH) certainly influenced my decision to make woodworking a serious avocation back in the late 1990s. It provided some vision, some ideas, an appreciation of tools and a few times, it helped ease away some things that beginning woodworkers miss, such as the fact that wood doesn't have to always be 3/4" or 1/2" thick and actually shouldn't always be 1/2" or 3/4" thick...5/16" might be the right choice proportionally for a given project. (The Shaker wall clock project comes to mind here) Yes, a lot of glue and brads "to hold things while the glue sets up" happened, but perhaps it's better to deal with too much glue than not enough. And honestly, Norm was and is a VERY likeable person whom I admire a lot for reasons beyond the show.

Yes, time and technology has marched on and there are a lot more sources for folks to access content on woodworking and pretty much everything else. Some of it is bad; some is good and some is even outstanding. I think that had YouTube or similar been available "back in the day" Norm and the folks who created NYW would likely have embraced it if it supported their mission. As it was, PBS affiliates were the only game in town for material like that.

[Steve Wurster]

I really liked Norm and I think he was very successful at popularizing woodworking.

That said, his lack of emphasis on safety was an awful approach to an instructional show, he really should have learned to use a guard and a Unifence on his table saw.

I’ve watched the new Rough Cuts show and really like it except for the lack of guard on the Felder saw and Tom’s use of a crosscut sled on a format saw. Maybe he’s trying to make it look like a cabinet saw?

I think a show such as Tom’s or Norm’s would be successful today.

YouTube has video ranging from the really awful to the wonderful....Rod


I agree that Norm didn't emphasize, or practice, safety enough. Yes, he made the per-show comment about understanding your tools and about wearing safety glasses. And he also would clamp a small block to the TS fence when making miter cuts so that the offcut didn't get trapped (and he always commented about the use of that block). (Note: He didn't always have a Unifence on the saw; some years there was a Biesemeyer. But I never saw him slide the fence back on the Unifence like he could have).

But there was never a comment about dust collection, especially when he used a router and there were tons of shavings and dust spewing everywhere. And of course there was nothing about wearing protection when applying finishing (or any comment about air movement in the finishing room).

I also would have liked to see the guard installed on the saw. Especially when he would use his homemade tapering jig and there was nothing holding the piece in place. All WW shows that remove the guard make that note about the guard being removed for clarity, but I don't buy it. Cameras can zoom in and show the cut, and the woodworker can and should note how the guard operates, and how to work with the guard. Obviously non-through cuts on a riving knife or splitter mounted guard would require removing the guard; none of those shows used overhead-mounted guards (The Wood Whisperer uses a Brett guard at least, but not on every cut). I'm guessing that Norm has rarely used a guard on a saw, especially coming from the construction industry.

As for the more recent Rough Cut with the Felder saw, I totally agree that he should be using a guard and not using the crosscut sled. I think the use of the sled is to show how the "average" woodworker who doesn't have a sliding table saw could make the cut. But he could easily use the capabilities of the saw he has, and make a comment about how to do it with a sled on a cabinet saw (even with a quick demonstration if need be).

(Note: Have they aired any newer Rough Cut episodes? I know there was an issue with the previous host claiming ownership of the name. They haven't aired a new episode in my area in over a year, I think. I haven't bothered to look online though...)

[Tim M Tuttle]

I can say that NYW (and ToH) certainly influenced my decision to make woodworking a serious avocation back in the late 1990s. It provided some vision, some ideas, an appreciation of tools and a few times, it helped ease away some things that beginning woodworkers miss, such as the fact that wood doesn't have to always be 3/4" or 1/2" thick and actually shouldn't always be 1/2" or 3/4" thick...5/16" might be the right choice proportionally for a given project. (The Shaker wall clock project comes to mind here) Yes, a lot of glue and brads "to hold things while the glue sets up" happened, but perhaps it's better to deal with too much glue than not enough. And honestly, Norm was and is a VERY likeable person whom I admire a lot for reasons beyond the show.

Yes, time and technology has marched on and there are a lot more sources for folks to access content on woodworking and pretty much everything else. Some of it is bad; some is good and some is even outstanding. I think that had YouTube or similar been available "back in the day" Norm and the folks who created NYW would likely have embraced it if it supported their mission. As it was, PBS affiliates were the only game in town for material like that. Pretty much everyone with show on TV has supplemental content on YouTube these days. Norm would be no different. You can watch a lot of TOH on YouTube.

[Edwin Santos]

Pretty much everyone with show on TV has supplemental content on YouTube these days. Norm would be no different. You can watch a lot of TOH on YouTube.

Just to elaborate on your point, the original question implies that it's one or the other. I think there's room for both. If it were not the case then TOH and the raft of HGTV shows would be off the air.

I could even make a case that one medium actually helps the other. When I was in business school, we had the classic case study of the single gas station or convenience store on an intersection. Conventional wisdom would say this would be better than an intersection with competition but the study revealed that when one or even two more gas stations opened up, each of the competitors did more business than the sole station did when it had the intersection to itself. The conclusion was the increased awareness brought about a increase in the market which in turn caused all boats to rise. So here, imagine a person that develops their curiosity about woodworking from a PBS show and then finds themselves immersed in YouTube or vice versa. In this way, one medium helped the other.

Another way of looking at it is that the increased content is not chasing a static group of woodworkers, rather the increase in content is contributing to a growing population of woodworking enthusiasts. Just a theory.

Side note: the rising tide phenomenon should also result in more tool vendors, more competition among those tool vendors, more innovation in tools. I think I see this happening. Thinking back 20 years ago, there seems to be more tool vendors to my eye. Just look at the way Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen have grown from what they were.

[Greg Parrish]

I remember watching with my Dad and being fascinated by the Woodwrights Shop with Roy Underhill before Norm. Everything was made with hand tools or by older methods. Once Norms show started the shop seemed over the top to anything I had ever seen. Miss watching more shows like those now that I’m older.

[Darcy Warner]

Norm was like watching paint dry. Roy was always great, never knew what he would bleed on.

My YouTube channel will never get big, but I try to post videos that pertain to little seen, little known stuff that has to do with the equipment and machinery side of it.

Free advice is just that, free and may not even be worth the free part.

[Charles P. Wright]

I have learned a lot from Norm, and never felt the projects he made were out of reach because of tools. Sure, I'm not going to have a mortising machine, but there are alternatives. The basics were generally done with the table saw, chop saw, and router.

I feel like TOH is a totally different animal, given that most of the renovations have ridiculous budgets and unless you are a PE partner they are no longer relatable for this DIYer. Ask TOH has much more relatable homeowners, but the projects are all very small and done within a 5-10 minute segment.

[jack duren]

Even as a professional it was fun to watch Norm. Norm was new, the internet was new and DIYers were beginning to get out of control. It was just movement for the period...

He got out of hand with expensive tooling and took the fun out of it for many...This old house weren't doing average Joe work anyore and ruin it in the end...

Now where is Bob Villa. I thought he was king o diy...

[Jon Fletcher]

I believe it all comes down to commonsense and understanding. Knowing and understanding how whatever tool you're using works will help to operate it safely. Also using the proper tool for the task at hand. I work in a machine shop and I am truly amazed at the level of cluelessness I see.

[Warren Wilson]

I am with the youtube fans. Norm was fine in his day — but he was just one guy with one approach and one skill set. He was engaging, personable, skilled, but limited. There is now a wealth of knowledge being openly shared, a great range of skills and perspectives available, and multiple approaches to solving every problem.

One youtuber I watch brings a wealth of engineering knowledge to problem solving with wood. Another two channels are building big ocean-going wooden boats, and a third shipwright seems to be taking a break from content production. I follow other content producers who are creating beautiful joinery, another combines an architect’s design sense with wonderful precision in execution; one fellow I enjoy is a wooden wheelwright who combines great skill as both a carpenter and a blacksmith.

The problem for some folks seems to be that the quality and skill level of the content producers is uneven. The solution for that is simple: don’t follow the weak ones. There are lots of highly-skilled and highly-trained content producers who can offer insights and solutions. It’s easy to follow them instead.

Some folks have commented on safety practices. When any woodworking content producer indulges a practice that could be seen as hazardous, just look in the comment section: there is a thriving cottage industry among Safety Nazis (some call them safety nannies, but that’s a different debate) and they are on patrol!

It is pretty much the same with the other complaints about shop practices: keyboard warriors are fearless and never hesitate to offer criticism.

Norm was great in his time. So was *Cheers.*

[Rick Potter]

Reading Jack's post about This Old House reminded me of the early episodes, where the owner of an average house got the makeover, but had to help build it with 'sweat equity'. I gave up on it after a couple seasons of the show becoming This Old Mansion.

Who remembers when Norm had a ShopSmith, and a Craftsman RAS in the Yankee Workshop?


PS: I recorded all the Norm show's, starting with the second season to the end. My wife, edited out all the ads at the beginning and end of each, then put them in order for me (they were not always recorded on the same machine, or the first showing). This was using a VCR, and it took a lot of time. When DVD's took over, she copied them onto the DVD's for me.

Bless her heart, she did it all to please me. I still have them, but now they are available (mostly) on YouTube.

[Derek Cohen]

I'm coming in late. A couple of points.

Firstly, I owe Norm a debt of gratitude. I watched his videos decades ago, and they were an important source in teaching me awareness and use of power tools. Over time, I out grew his techniques, tools and methods. That did not alter my affection for him. Although there is a world of difference in both our workshops and furniture styles, I would happily re-watch old shows if the opportunity arose. My wife is addicted to TOH, and part of this for me is spending time with old friends.

With regard the presentations on YouTube, my opinion is that there is an awful lot of "look at me" and that some of this is also inspired by dreams of commercial success. Overall, from my vantage as a reasonably experienced woodworker, much of the available content is dreck, and some of it potentially dangerous. At one time I wanted to yell out, or leave comments, to this effect. I bite my tongue and move on, hoping that the viewers are divided into three categories: those that are not woodworkers but looking for entertainment and get this; those that are aspiring woodworkers, as I was with Norm, and are learning vicariously - that is, not actually committing themselves to building something; and those with enough common sense to recognise what is workable and what is not.

There are some wonderful YouTube presentations. If I suggested that we compile a list, what I expect will happen is that the varied tastes on this forum will create a smorgasbord and illustrate that one man's meat is another man's poison.

A few of the one's I like:

Doucette and Wolfe Furniture Makers

ISHITANI FURNITURE

Dorian Bracht

Peter Galbert

Sampson Boat Co


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AoCtUhG4-I

Regards from Berlin

Derek

[Pete Staehling]

I enjoyed watching Norm, but was already well established in the notion that we needed to make due with MUCH less in the way of tools and machines in our shop. I saw his as a fancy shop with all kinds of fancy tools that no home shop would ever have. Dad's shop was pretty basic, but we turned out what we needed to. I watched Norm, but it was mostly entertainment and I didn't really feel like I learned much from it at the time.

Later I was enamored with the woodwright's shop. I loved the idea of making stuff with hand tools in a traditional fashion. Even though I never pursued the traditional aspect of that very far, I learned a lot from watching and did learn to use hand tools more. I probably a lot learned a lot more than I did from watching Norm.

YouTube is great in my opinion. Sure you have to sort through all sorts of crap and filter out what is and isn't of value. It does put the responsibility of your safety on yourself when it comes to seeking out enough content to learn basic safe practices. You can still learn them if you actually make the effort to do so. The unsafe practices on the videos often are pointed out in the comments, commented on in forums, or otherwise used as a teaching tool. Also some videos actually to a decent job of showing safe practices.

The best thing about YouTube is that there are so many creative people out there sharing ideas, good and bad. Those ideas, even the bad ones, are all food for thought and for a creative mind can be just the thing to get you started on the path to new ideas. Sometimes seeing someones failed project is just the thing to get you started on a great new idea.

[Ole Anderson]

I am becoming a bit of a YouTube addict now that I can watch them on the big screen TV. The one that really has been impressing me from a woodworking perspective is the one from Sampson Boat Co where he, with the occasional volunteer, is almost completely rebuilding a hundred year old sailing boat. Giant ship saw, chain saws, hand planers, chisels, lots of hand planing on 4 foot scarph joints. Man, this guy does it all with some pretty impressive joinery where everything is curved. Timbers big enough he has to move them with a fork lift. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rswOuvATmdA Check this one out, you won't be disappointed.

[Patrick Walsh]

I got hooked on these bad early last year.

Made the fanatical workaholic recluse in me want to build a wooden sea work yacht sell everything and disappear.

Need a bigger property first to build it on. Then sell then disappear....

Awesome seeing others that are not afraid to just go for it regardless of the scope and scale.


I am becoming a bit of a YouTube addict now that I can watch them on the big screen TV. The one that really has been impressing me from a woodworking perspective is the one from Sampson Boat Co where he, with the occasional volunteer, is almost completely rebuilding a hundred year old sailing boat. Giant ship saw, chain saws, hand planers, chisels, lots of hand planing on 4 foot scarph joints. Man, this guy does it all with some pretty impressive joinery where everything is curved. Timbers big enough he has to move them with a fork lift. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rswOuvATmdA Check this one out, you won't be disappointed.

[jack duren]

The problem with the tube... is I get pretty bored with the guy explaining the same thing over and over for 30 seconds. Move on...most the time I move around the video to get to the point for which I turned it on...

[Patrick Walsh]

Both have merit. It’s really that simple.

I grew up on TOH, NYW so forth and so on. Being a tradesman from Boston it seemed all that much more relevant as the construction techniques and work on old homes I could relate to as it’s what I was also doing. But you know once past the initial stages as a carpenter it was not that there was not much to learn but well there was not much to learn.

I often even today find myself watching only to keep up on new cutting edge building materials as I am no longer building homes but cabinetry and soon to be Organs.

Just the other week I was watching and they were making a coffered ceiling. Instead of coping the crown they mitered it and built it on the ground. For me that is just a mortal sin and a clear indicator of a good enough throw it in the dumpster in 10-20 mentality I see rampant thorough the residential building trades and our society as a whole.mi have zero respect for it and zero interest in doing that type of work.

Anyway thank god for those shows as at one time they really helped. Teaching safetyI don’t think so as my feeling on the Uber safety freaks is well pretty clear. It’s really annoying kinda like that jerk friend that knows you can’t spell but always has to correct your spelling. There are all kids of annoying but as a guy whom makes his living building stuff and always has “the guy who never drops the safety thing” just gets ignored as it’s like a broken record and most times can’t be taken serious as if he put as much effort as he does into worrying about safety he might also be a talented maker. Not that some obsessed with safety are not talented makers but nine outa ten times they are really hard to take serious for a myriad of reasons. First being it’s just annoying and well annoying gets ignored most times.

Spend one year of your life out on a job site actually building and making things for money and most of these people couldn’t get past the front door when they simply saw the rats nest of extension cords all over the dam place. Oh yeah that 2x10 covered in splits spanning the 8x8x8 hole in the ground for a form while a excavator digs and you have to drag your whole van of tools in while 300 other trades jockey for position and omg the safety guy makes zero money. When you have 15 different trades and it’s crunch time and one or all are interdependent on the other and the schedual must be kept or no lay gets paid next week it’s not that safety does not matter but it’s only realistic to focus so much on it. You just gotta get to work and keep producing. I’m not saying you have to be reckless but sometimes what would appear to reckless to the uninitiated is well within control to the guy that does it everyday.safety generally imop is common sense and if you don’t have commune sense your not gonna get very far building stuff.

Just saying.

As for the shows I’ll take em all as I can find something to learn from everyone. If you can’t weed out the unsafe behavior or crap building techniques well I don’t know what to say. Maybe power tools are not or should not be your thing.


The problem with the tube... is I get pretty bored with the guy explaining the same thing over and over for 30 seconds. Move on...most the time I move around the video to get to the point for which I turned it on...

[David Utterback]

Norm helped a lot to set the hook for me. He is genuine and engaging. I speculate that Delta would have abandoned the sponsorship in one of their numerous cost-cutting moves that has removed them from serious consideration of most tool buyers these days. Ah, the good ole days.

[jack duren]

Patrick .....Was the last response directed at me?

[Patrick Walsh]

Nope no one specific person. And for sure not you, now just looking back at your input. You dont seem all safety freakish at least not in the context of this thread and if you are I actually really don’t care so long as I don’t have to work with you. And as it seems you also are on both sides of this as well so.. Well at least we can agree on the tv shows. I largely share your perspective on that.

Just adding my perspective and experience to the conversation.

I should add that I get the importance of us all being able to do what we need to do for ourself. If being hyper aware of safety is your thing so be it. That not directed at any one person.

I dont want to be told how and not to do my work and I’m not about to tell others.

I learnt long ago you dont direct comments at any one person on a forum. That goes without saying.

Just my opinions and the original poster asked for conversation. I’m just adding my perspective..



Patrick .....Was the last response directed at me?

[Jack Frederick]

Norm is the reason I got into woodworking. Well, maybe not the "reason", but he certainly greased the ways. I did a show with Bob Villa and a couple with ToH, on Rich Trethewy's side of things. rich would always say of Norm that Norm never changed router bits. He just changed routers.
I also recall the hue and cry from the editorials in FWW when they put Norm on the cover. Sacriledge, but it sure worked out for Delta, PC, Makita, etc, etc;)

[jack duren]

Nope no one specific person. And for sure not you now just looking back at your input. You dint seem all safety freakish at least not in the context of this thread. And as it seems you also are on both sides of this. Well at least we can agree on the tv shows. I largely share your perspective in that.

Just adding my perspective and experience to the conversation.

I should add that I get the importance of us all being able to do what we need to do for ourself.

I dont want to be told how and not to do my work and I’m not about to tell others.

I learnt long ago you dint direct comments at any one person on a forum. That goes without saying.

Just my oppositions and the original poster asked for conversation. I’m just adding my perspective..


I lost the end of two fingers in 1985 at a cabinet shop in Alabama... I'm very aware of safety these days but on the tube I may agree or disagree with safety used but started ignoring it just to get to the point.. I just get all twisted on the forums when they say..."I stand to the left"....

[Patrick Walsh]

Years ago in my early twenties and well on my way as a carpenter I was living in Tucson Arizona and staying with a extended relative. I had taken a break from the trades at the time questioning if I really wanted to spend the rest of my life making a living what I still see as the hard road.

Anyway my gracious host was in his late 70’s a polio survivor and had the will of a bull. This guy was impressive. Very very impressive, nothing was gonna stop him from doing the things he wanted. He had decades of experience working with power tools. We where building a green house in his back yard. He was ripping 2x4 down into strapping on a job site saw.

Suddenly I heard him yell for me “Patrick Patrick” I came running around the house and calm as could be he told me I needed to take him to the the hospital. I asked what happened and he told me he had cut two of his dam fingers off. I believed him but didn’t get to it till he instructed me to go in the house and get a bag of ice and come back pick up his two fingers put them on ice and drive him to the hospital. I didn’t even know where the hospital was. I was mortified at the time but also stayed calm.

Anyway the next summer I helped him build another green house. Both fingers were successfully sewn back on but with limited to no mobility.

I have since seen a few more accidents.

I feel after years spent working on machines you develop a sense for machines and materials and how they will and will not react. Non the less every once and while a piece of lumber going through the table saw or whatever machine will release tension and or split a chunk off and what it does and does not do can be predicted and counteracted to a extent by gut instinct reactions served by years of experience. But once and a while that circumstance will get you and bite you in the rear regardless of all precautions and prior experience.

I guess I’m just not a very fearful person. That’s not to say I’m not safe or smart and don’t think about the potential risks with everything I do. I actually do and it’s this awareness I use to make decisions regarding risk vrs reward.

I am pretty fearless and I do accept probably the consequence of higher risk taking than most. Be it Woodworking, scaling ice or rock cliffs with or without ropes, jumping my BMX bike out of the equivalent of second story building onto payment without pads fully knowing it will probably take 50 tries before I land the trick and I ma or may not end up at the hospital or racing down say the auto road of mount Lemmon in the pouring rain just to win a bike race. My relationship with fear and reward are probably a bit different than some. Not all but some.




I lost the end of two fingers in 1985 at a cabinet shop in Alabama... I'm very aware of safety these days but on the tube I may agree or disagree with safety used but started ignoring it just to get to the point.. I just get all twisted on the forums when they say..."I stand to the left"....

[jack duren]

He was lucky.... I went into 3/4 dado blades. No sewing them back on...

[Patrick Walsh]

Holly crap,

That’s a freaking mess. I’m sorry.

No denying one would be very motivated toward safety after something like that.

Yet again some would get over it and return to their old ways.

Years ago my climbing partner dropped me 30’ uninterrupted straight to the ground. I landed smack on a rock ledge another 15’ off the actual ground. I shattered my ankle and spent the next six months on my mother’s couch non weight bearing.

The previous week I was up in northern Vermont climbing this without ropes and nobody in site mid week. Had I fallen I would had lay there and frozen to death. If your a good climber relatively easy climbing. But still you stick a pick into ice or a cramp on and like wood it releases tension and can just chinches off, sometimes a small piece Otherti,es a piece the size of a small car. I did this weekly for years as people had jobs and were at work and I wanted to climb that bad.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106637187/the-tablets-left

Well in that six months even this guy got scared and adapted his behavior. So much so I have never climbed again. I knew full well that with my understanding of risk vrs reward and ultimately my lack of attachment to this particular life I would leave my dear single mother without her only child. Maybe worse her caring for me brain injured or cripple for the rest of her life. I miss climbing like I can’t communicate but you know it’s not that I’m not scared of power tools and don’t respect them “I do” it’s just that risk vrs reward thing. Sometimes there is always a risk..

at e
He was lucky.... I went into 3/4 dado blades. No sewing them back on...

[John Gornall]

I think Norm would do well today. The key thing about his show was his choice of projects, showing the origins, showing the prototype and the finished project. The woodworking was of course about his sponsors and selling tools. Today the tools would be different, the safety attitudes would be different, and I think it could be a great show. Thanks Norm.

[jack duren]

I think Norm would do well today. The key thing about his show was his choice of projects, showing the origins, showing the prototype and the finished project. The woodworking was of course about his sponsors and selling tools. Today the tools would be different, the safety attitudes would be different, and I think it could be a great show. Thanks Norm.

I would look forward to watching it. But it wouldn't take but minutes for someone to find something negative to say about the show on the internet.

Personally I like David Marks

[Doug Dawson]

I would look forward to watching it. But it wouldn't take but minutes for someone to find something negative to say about the show on the internet.


Those old shows would be a good candidate for the Mystery Science Theater 3000 treatment. It was the original "reality tv", like so many other such at the time. Mister Rogers, now that was genuine. As was Roy Underwood, when he bled you saw it.

[John Makar]

I wonder if society is now generically ADHD. I personally can't sit and watch one of those shows all the way thru, even on rerun. I use youtube to get a quick look at a tool or technique. I think the whole regular "channel" thing is sort of weird. In any case there seems so much duplication and over simplification, and not much new light, at least for the problems I'm trying to solve. I last tuned my bandsaw in 2008, seems to still be in good shape. How many 'build a cross-cut sled' vids does the world need? I stopped using my crosscut sled a good while ago. My Kreg Miter gauge was so much better, more adaptable, and has me sliding my material easily across a very lovingly cared for piece of machined steel - dust collection works better that way too. Now I just build another MDF sacrificial face, most days I can reuse part of the prior one for something.

[Andy D Jones]

What I remember from NYWS was that, in the first season or two, he made do with the basic power tools: table saw, router, drill, etc. I liked that a lot, because that was what I had access to, and he showed some jigs and stuff to make those basic power tools more flexible.

But in later seasons, he seemed to become a demonstrator for whatever new (and expensive) power tool that would make the job easier (or whose manufacturer would donate it for product exposure), but was beyond the budget (and shop space) available to amateur wood workers like me.

I had taken wood shop class in high school for a couple of semesters, and we had more machine tools that would do more specialized things (we had to cross cut on the RASs, we could only rip or dado on the table saws, etc.) In the beginning seasons of NYWS, Norm showed how to use the table saw for much more than I had learned, and I appreciated it. We always started from rough-sawn stock (unless it was plywood).

Now I am a recently retired electrical engineer, and am rekindling my latent woodworking hobby. But I kinda like using my unisaw for a lot more functions than we did in shop class. I also don't have the room for all the extra machines in my garage/shop that still has to share space at night with an SUV!

Andy

[Will Blick]

As with all things in life, every dog has its day.

Norm in his day, was great to watch.... he had virtually no competition. If you like ww, u would prob. watch the show. He had a great run, demonstrating how people loved ww content.
But like all things educational in the last 50 yrs, they get trumped quickly. While books were the primary source of education for the prior two hundred years, video took a heavy bite from the book market. And now, youtube took a huge bite out of the tv market.

I agree with many posters above, youtube videos vary from horrible to remarkable. Some authors do such a great job with editing, they speed through parts which are sensless to watch, add written comments where something might have been confusing, and demonstrate a process, or use of a tool like no book could match. OTOH, some videos are an elementary attempt of seeking 5 minutes of fame. What is incredible to me about these videos, is just how many people have the time, and the strong desire to be an instructor.

Unlike a book, or a purchased video content, with youtube, if you get a dud, u wasted a minute of your time, u move on. I can only assume, its the advent of these youtube videos which is greatly reducing the ww tv content we will see in the future. On my PBS, they seem to play the Classic Woodworking episodes over and over. I would guess there is maybe 7 episodes total. I fear it will be the end of tv ww shows.

Also, many of the streaming services have the full catalogs of many ww shows, you can binge watch them at your leisure. I even saw the WoodWhisperer on Amazon Prime. So the content will never die, it lives on through mostly free streaming services. I have not noticed fee based yet, but it might exist.

Remarkably, I still like a good book, it serves well as a handy reference for certain subject matter.

[Jack Frederick]

The other thing about YT compared to Norm or ToH is that YT has provided the platform for anyone who wants to get their topic out there to do so. If you think back to the early days of ToH, when Bob Villa ran it and Norm was just starting, how many of us watched and thought, "I could do that show..." I used to watch Villa and be put off with how curt and abrupt he was with the folks he had on the show. I was then invited to film a segment with them on Rinnai Tankless water heaters, which I represented. I got there and there was a crew and basic run throughs were done on a number of segments, standing seam metal roofing, mine, trim, fireplace, paint, etc. Once they began filming I had a much greater appreciation for the production process and Bob's...drive! Yes, it was slam bang but I had to appreciate the production process and how much got done in a day, and that is what BV did. He produced. I had the same opportunities on a couple ToH segments which I expected to be in, but as a competitor in the P&H Rep business in the New England market, Rich T wasn't letting me anywhere near a camera. It was pretty funny really. Having had a look at how those shows were put together I have great respect for the people who do this.

You tube has given everyone the opportunity to take a shot.

[Eric Danstrom]

As I understand it, the audiences of the PBS DIY series including Norm, This Old House and the frizzy haired painter is about 80% non-participants. In other words, most of the audience will never woodwork, fix up a house or paint a picture. My widowed MIL (God rest her soul) loved Norm and TOH and watched every episode. She told me she always enjoyed watching a man work and complete the job.

[Ole Anderson]

Watching YouTube, I have been running across a number of Ask This Old House episodes. I would think sponsored at some point by Festool based on the number of Festools (is that a proper word?) in the mix. Just can't get past that goofy looking drill. Not to mention the price of anything green. I would be more impressed of they were with Dewalt or Milwaukee or Makita, Something more of us have. Although I think more of you have Festool than I can imagine. Sure I watched and enjoyed Norm but I was never much hooked on PBS. I did, however manage to record most of the David Marks shows.

[Rick Potter]

My wife got a kick out of that one, Eric.

[Jim Becker]

Watching YouTube, I have been running across a number of Ask This Old House episodes. I would think sponsored at some point by Festool based on the number of Festools (is that a proper word?) in the mix. Just can't get past that goofy looking drill. Not to mention the price of anything green. I would be more impressed of they were with Dewalt or Milwaukee or Makita, Something more of us have. Although I think more of you have Festool than I can imagine. Sure I watched and enjoyed Norm but I was never much hooked on PBS. I did, however manage to record most of the David Marks shows.

To the best of my knowledge, Tom Silva got introduced to Festool by Bob Marino (a 'Creeker and now-retired Festool purveyor) a number of years ago and embraced the system for his crew quite a bit, but at that point it there wasn't any sponsorship. He just plain liked and saw value in the system. I do believe at some point sponsorship came into play, but don't know that for sure. If by the "goofie looking drill" you mean one of the C-handled drills, don't laugh too much. For many of us, they are uber-comfortable to use. My little CSX is the most used Festool in my shop! I will admit that seeing Norm use some Festool tools in more recent Ask ToH and related videos did make my smile.

[Eric Danstrom]

My wife got a kick out of that one, Eric.
"Completed", lol, you caught it. I didn't miss her point when she said it either :)

[Eric Danstrom]

...at that point it there wasn't any sponsorship. He just plain liked and saw value in the system. I do believe at some point sponsorship came into play, but don't know that for sure....
Interesting. I have read the TOH and NYW producers didn't use anything on the set without cash compensation from the manufacturers. Norm's workshop was said to be on the property of one of the executives and was paid for by PBS and the sponsors. Created an ugly appearance but nobody seemed to care.

[Jim Becker]

Interesting. I have read the TOH and NYW producers didn't use anything on the set without cash compensation from the manufacturers. Norm's workshop was said to be on the property of one of the executives and was paid for by PBS and the sponsors. Created an ugly appearance but nobody seemed to care.
The NYW shop building was indeed on producer Russell Morash's property, as were the gardens for another PBS show. ToH was likely a little different when it came to tools because the various subcontractors pretty much use what they use, at least for the projects. In the case of Tom, while he was certainly one of the "faces" of the show, his crews doing the work were regular folks and ToH was just one project they were contracted to. Same for the other "faces" that were actual contractors. I'm sure there was a lot of wheeling and dealing on building materials and technology, however...no way the homeowners could ever afford some of that stuff I suspect! Spin off programs like Ask ToH could likely be more managed when it came to things like sponsorship just due to their nature because they were more studio shot and scripted.

Sponsorship comes into play pretty heavily in the YouTube world, too. Many, if not most, popular content providers have sponsors. Triton tools has several folks like April Wilkerson and Matt Cremona, for example. April seems particularly adept at scoring sponsorships and relationships which net "stuff" or at least easier acquisition of "stuff". Triton sent both of them to guitar building school recently at Crimson in the UK who also has Triton as a sponsor. (I'm only using these two as examples because I'm familiar with them...most of my YouTube watching for "how to" is in the guitar building world at present)

[Warren Wilson]

Another way to look at this is to consider how well Norm would have fared on an even playing field today as a youtube content provider. I think he would have lots of followers and subscribers, though the competition is a lot fiercer than it was a dozen years ago

[jeff norris 2011]

Another way to look at this is to consider how well Norm would have fared on an even playing field today as a youtube content provider. I think he would have lots of followers and subscribers, though the competition is a lot fiercer than it was a dozen years ago

I am not sure how well norm could produce a show. to be yt star you need to be able to also be great behind the camera.

I do find it odd that diy shows and Reno have multiplied, but woodworking shows don't exist outside of the internet now.

[Derek Cohen]

Another way to look at this is to consider how well Norm would have fared on an even playing field today as a youtube content provider. I think he would have lots of followers and subscribers, though the competition is a lot fiercer than it was a dozen years ago

It is worth noting that most of these YouTube providers today either were trained by Norm's TV show, or were trained by those who trained by viewing his shows.

Due needs to be given to those who paved the way for others. There would not be a competition of YouTube shows for Norm to deal with had he not been a central part on creating this niche. There were a few others that stood out, such as David Marks, but (as I understand) it was TNYW that set the bar.

Regards from Berlin

Derek

[Steve Rozmiarek]

It is worth noting that most of these YouTube providers today either were trained by Norm's TV show, or were trained by those who trained by viewing his shows.

Due needs to be given to those who paved the way for others. There would not be a competition of YouTube shows for Norm to deal with had he not been a central part on creating this niche. There were a few others that stood out, such as David Marks, but (as I understand) it was TNYW that set the bar.

Regards from Berlin

Derek

Yes, I think Derek is right.

Let me figure out how many youtube woodworking "shows" I've ever watched to completion... umm that would be zero. In my opinion, youtube is for quick snippets of how to do something I'm not familiar with. Who has the time to watch what is usually some bumbling dufass carry on endlessly about irrelevant nonsense before getting to the point. Norm was different, it was designed to be entertainment first and even if you didn't like the project, the presentation was worth the time. I haven't seen anything modern that compares.

Would NYWS work now? I think yes. I'd watch it again if it was the same as it used to be. Not the Ask TOH garbage format.

On a related note, anyone know how Roger Cook is doing?

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Steve, Happy New year.

I agree completely with your post.

I live in Toronto so I watch Tom on WNED, the Buffalo PBS station. They haven't aired any new episodes, at least that I've seen, too bad as I enjoyed the new format, I found Tommy Mac too frantic and too interested in "being hip with the kids" tto make an enjoyable viewing moment for me.

Regards, Rod.

[Peter Kuhlman]

Thinking back to Norm’s shows I wonder how many radial arm saws and hollow chisel mortisers he helped sell!!!
I sure enjoyed his shows but could easily see defects in the project at times from having such a strict timeline for completion.
What bothers me at times on shows like This Old House is some of the major safety violations that an inspector would shut them down for. Primarily when excavating and working in deep holes. No shoring, no step back, being in the deep hole while excavation machinery is running in there. OSHA would have a fit.
As to the topic, I think his show would still do well today - if they could get it broadcast. The individual PBS stations choose what shows to pay for and broadcast. Having moved from Michigan to Louisiana and now back again it is just amazing the content differences that individual stations choose to broadcast. Not sure how many stations would pick his show up.

[Curt Harms]

As I understand it, the audiences of the PBS DIY series including Norm, This Old House and the frizzy haired painter is about 80% non-participants. In other words, most of the audience will never woodwork, fix up a house or paint a picture. My widowed MIL (God rest her soul) loved Norm and TOH and watched every episode. She told me she always enjoyed watching a man work and complete the job.

I think 80% non-participants is pretty low, especially for TOH. Even though I'll never rehab a mini-manse, it's still better more entertaining viewing than 98% of broadcast TV.

[Jay Kepley]

Norm was popular for so many years in large part because he is so relatable. He's a very nice guy. I watched every episode to see how tools were used and to learn some woodworking. In my opinion, Norm is the starting point of the current YouTube woodworker culture. I look back on NYWS with great fondness, and I really enjoy seeing Norm on current TOH episodes. Norm was good for woodworking. I'm sure Delta was a sponsor of NYWS, but the tools were simply used in the project. I struggle mightily with sponsorships and product placement on YouTube. I know these folks need to make a living. I wish there were full disclosure of paid relationships.

[John Gornall]

Norm had some favorite tools with the name covered with duct tape.

[jeff norris 2011]

Norm was popular for so many years in large part because he is so relatable. He's a very nice guy. I watched every episode to see how tools were used and to learn some woodworking. In my opinion, Norm is the starting point of the current YouTube woodworker culture. I look back on NYWS with great fondness, and I really enjoy seeing Norm on current TOH episodes. Norm was good for woodworking. I'm sure Delta was a sponsor of NYWS, but the tools were simply used in the project. I struggle mightily with sponsorships and product placement on YouTube. I know these folks need to make a living. I wish there were full disclosure of paid relationships.

I actually don't mind the sponsorship part, I struggle with the ones that do "stunt" project to get attention.

[Rod Sheridan]

Thinking back to Norm’s shows I wonder how many radial arm saws and hollow chisel mortisers he helped sell!!!
.

Ha Peter, that was great.

My brother and I still laugh when my brother says "my dedicated mortising station, just like Norm's"

I think Norm did more to popularize wood working than anyone I can think of..............Regards, Rod.

[Thomas McCurnin]

I liked all the old PBS shows from Norm to the Woodwright and David Marks and the newer stuff like Woodsmith.

There were /are very few episodes in which I failed to learn something. Yet all had/have faults. Norm’s penchant for molding and brad nailing, Woodsmith’s reliance on all things Rockler, and David J Marks’ use of machinery that no one had.

The same can be said of all the YouTube guys. I’ve seen a guy that put way too much glue on everything (he proudly displayed a barrel of Titebond he had), scary scenes with fingers way too close to table saw blades, and other hacks. But even with complete YouTube clowns, I always pick up some nugget. The You Tube standouts for me are Paul Sellers and William Ng. These guys are just about perfect. I want to be just like them.

[Patrick Walsh]

Oddly enough I pulled up to work this week and this was across the street.

423473

[jeff norris 2011]

Oddly enough I pulled up to work this week and this was across the street.

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did you say hi?

[Patrick Walsh]

Nah,

Trailer was wide open but nobody in site. I suspect they were filming somewhere indoors being im i. a industrial park full of various shops.

Plus I’m not the type I’m shy believe it or not.




did you say hi?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Hi Steve, Happy New year.

I agree completely with your post.

I live in Toronto so I watch Tom on WNED, the Buffalo PBS station. They haven't aired any new episodes, at least that I've seen, too bad as I enjoyed the new format, I found Tommy Mac too frantic and too interested in "being hip with the kids" tto make an enjoyable viewing moment for me.

Regards, Rod.

Hi Rod! I caught your post regarding the dedicated mortise station, lol, that's why I went through a dovetail jig buying phase for a while!

[lowell holmes]

See this site:

https://www.kensaq.com/web?qo=semQuery&ad=semA&q=new%20yankee%20workshop%20episodes&o=766195&ag=fw5&an=msn_s&rch=intl1534

[Andrew More]

The You Tube standouts for me are Paul Sellers and William Ng. These guys are just about perfect. I want to be just like them.

Agreed. I like Paul's cheap tools. He's always trying to make things that anybody can take advantage of. Surprised there's been no mention of Stumpy Nubs, lots of great tips, product reviews, and projects.