First Post: Beginner woodworker questions.

[PHILIP MACHIN]

Happy New Years all!

I've always wanted to get into woodworking, but as a career navy submariner I just never had the time or space for it. I'm out now, and I have lots of both and i'm a new first time homeowner with lots of projects to do. I've been reading a lot and watching a ton of youtube videos, and I've done a few simple projects. I made shelving units for my garage, a mud room bench/coat hanger, pantry built in shelves and a coffee table for the living room. They've turned out pretty well for my skill level and materials/tools. (Made the wife happy at least)

Building the coffee table really sparked something in me, and I think furniture building might be something I'm really interested in learning more about. I'd really like to get to the point where I could make a reasonably refined dining room table. (One piece smooth finish) No interest in making a living from wood working, but it'd be nice if the hobby could pay for itself someday.

I'm looking for some help with my next tool purchase. I'm not low budget, but I don't want to waste money on tools I don't really need yet.

My current tools: Circular Saw, Miter Saw, Dremel, Osc Sander, Power drills, mechanics set (ratchets, etc), a few random chisels and punches, kreg set.

I feel inclined to go for a table saw next, but I've read that some people find more use from a band saw. I'm not really picky, I just wasn't sure which one would be more useful given my goals. I'm not against hand tools either, but I blew out my shoulder in the Navy and so I'd like to use a little of both power and hand. I'm usually pretty sore after a few hours of working in the shop.

I've been looking at the Grizzly G0833p, it seems like a reasonable compromise between power/features/affordability and portability (I'll have to move it in place when I need it). I also have a co-worker that is willing to sell me his old G1022 tablesaw and a G1182z 6" jointer for around 300 bucks for both. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet, but he takes good care of his tools. I know the G1022 is an older, contractor saw with a crappy fence, but for 150 bucks it might be a good start? My concern here was the lack of replacement part availability, and lack of riving knife. I understand some common sense can help avoid kickback and other issues, but it'd be nice to have some backup since i'm still learning.

Just wanted to tap on some experience out there before I spent any more money, my wife only lets me have so much $ for new toys.

Thanks!

Phil

[Bill Bukovec]

I would buy the Grizzly tablesaw and jointer. I started out with a 9" Delta tablesaw and 4" jointer I bought used. They were both small and under powered, but I got a lot of use out of them.

[tom lucas]

buy the best table saw you can afford. Even cabinet saws can be put on rolling stands. Then pick up a small used bandsaw later. Griz has always given me good luck. Just remember a good fence is going to cost upwards of $300 dollars. If you step up in capacity, the bigger tools require 220V. Just be prepared for that before you purchase.

[michael dilday]

I would say get a table saw if your next project is going to be a dining table. The Grizzly deal looks pretty good and will get you started. If you stick with it you might need to upgrade your table saw down the road. You can buy lumber already finished 4 sides but if you really get into it you might need a planer later. Other than a table saw, if I were building a dining table, I would definitely want a pocket hole jig to attach the top (you can get table top attachment clips too) and maybe a doweling jig to attach the legs to the apron. You can also get brackets from Rockler to mount the legs so they are removable if needed. If you are going to have folding leafs you might want to invest in a set of self-centering hinge bits. You can buy decorative legs online or make your own. For a first project I would stick with tapered legs which you can do on the table saw with a little creativity. For joining the boards to make the top you will need either a doweling jig (DowelMax makes a nice one but there are many options out there) or a biscuit cutter - I prefer the doweling jig myself and I have both. Hope this helps.

[Herman Davie]

^^^^What Michael said, and if you find you still want to expand, get into some hand tools, very exciting, however, like alcohol and drugs, they can become addicting, especially with the potential of your expanded time to devote to the craft

[Cary Falk]

" but it'd be nice if the hobby could pay for itself someday"

That is not how this hobby works


"I don't want to waste money on tools I don't really need yet"

You need all of them. That is how this hobby works.

Carry on.

[John K Jordan]

...I feel inclined to go for a table saw next, but I've read that some people find more use from a band saw. I'm not really picky, I just wasn't sure which one would be more useful given my goals. ...


My most-used power tool is a bandsaw. But I also I have a large cabinet saw and don't use it much but when I need it it's so useful. (I'd rather spend my limited time woodturning than building furniture!)
To avoid most of the hand work, a bandsaw and a hand plane can take the place of a table saw and jointer for preparing lumber for glueups for table tops and such. On the other hand, a cabinet shop down the hill doesn't even have a jointer - they glue up directly from their cabinet saw.

If setting up a shop for general work I'd want:
Good workbench
Bandsaw
Drill press
Table saw
Dust collector
Lalthe

If planning to work with rough-sawn lumber (can be a lot cheaper), also a
Jointer
Planer
Optionally, a drum sander

I first started building making things with a jig saw, drill, and orbital sander. The first big tool I got was was a radial arm saw which was great for ripping, crosscut, molding, sanding, and more. I built a lot of things with these tools, next adding a portable job-site table saw, lathe, and bandsaw. A tabletop planer let me buy rough wood from the sawmill - I carried it outside to plane. Years later I have my own sawmill and everything else and more but still use the same portable planer.

JKJ

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

" but it'd be nice if the hobby could pay for itself someday"

That is not how this hobby works


"I don't want to waste money on tools I don't really need yet"

You need all of them. That is how this hobby works.

Carry on.

What Cary said.

I am with the "buy the best table saw you can afford/will fit the space". I had a cheap job site for the first few years and was nothing but frustration and I almost gave up--I was constantly fighting the tool. Upgrading to a cabinet saw reinvigorated my interest int he hobby.

The combo from your co-worker may be worth it just for the jointer alone, so long as you are aware you may be itching to replace the table saw very soon after purchase.

[Steve Demuth]

I suppose I'm the contrarian here, but if I were starting with an empty shop, I'd spend first on a good, steel backed bandsaw - probably 14", but 18" if I could swing it - and a jointer - 6" will do for starters, but again, bigger if you can swing it.. Those two, with some well chosen hand tools would get me through the vast majority of "straight, solid wood" projects I can think of.

[PHILIP MACHIN]

Those two, with some well chosen hand tools would get me through the vast majority of "straight, solid wood" projects I can think of.

What would be some good suggestions for a place to start with hand tools? It looks like they can get pretty expensive too. I've seen a few planes in the box stores, but i'm guessing they are probably crap.


" but it'd be nice if the hobby could pay for itself someday"

That is not how this hobby works


"I don't want to waste money on tools I don't really need yet"

You need all of them. That is how this hobby works.

Carry on.

Yea, I had someone offer me some money for one of the coffee tables I made. So there was a brief glimmer of hope. But, looking at some of the prices on these tools I can see where that'd quickly eliminate itself.

Still have some thinking to do. Bandsaw vs Tablesaw, and new vs used. I feel inclined to exercise the "buy the best I can get to start with" mentality. I already feel like I've been bitten by the bug, and owning a house I'm sure there will always be a reason to have it.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Doug Dawson]

What Cary said.

I am with the "buy the best table saw you can afford/will fit the space". I had a cheap job site for the first few years and was nothing but frustration and I almost gave up--I was constantly fighting the tool. Upgrading to a cabinet saw reinvigorated my interest int he hobby.


You definitely need a SawStop. Go on Youtube and search for "Sawstop wiener", and show it to your wife. No schnitzel, shylock! :^) If you want something to pay for itself, there you go.

[John Stankus]

I am going to be a bit more contrarian than most.
1. Go take some classes so you can figure out how you enjoy working
2. Join a local woodworking club if there is one around. You gain by seeing what folks are doing, and in my experience are very supportive of new woodworkers. (Online stuff can be helpful, but it is not the same as seeing things in person and getting some hands on time)
You will have a much better feel for the tooling direction to pursue

John

[Frederick Skelly]

Lots of good advice here and I have nothing new to add. I just wanted to say welcome to the hobby and to SMC. These are great people who will be glad to help you learn.

And thank you for your Navy service. We have a lot of respect for Veterans here (as you'll find out).

Happy New Year!
Fred

[Mike Kees]

Lots of good advice on here. So many things to buy when you are starting out. I like the good bandsaw/jointer idea. As for basic hand tools ,a set of four quality chisels like the old Marples or current Narex. A Starret combination square probably 12''. Some clamps will be needed,if you can find the deal at Lowes or somewhere with four "f" sliding clamps. Next would be four pipe clamps about 36''.Also a couple planes,I started with a #5 jack plane and a block plane. Look for an old Stanley for the #5 and for a good block at a reasonable price a Stanley 60 1/2 made in England can be purchased from Lee Valley for about $60. This will get you started. As one of your first projects make a wooden mallet. My power tool advice would be to buy used. Way cheaper and there are a lot of real good machines out there,also if you have an oops and buy a machine you do not use or not enough machine it is easier to resell and recoup most or all of what you paid. The deal for the Grizzly stuff from your friend sounds decent. Good luck.

[Keith Outten]

Philip,

You might consider purchasing a track saw and possibly a 22 or 24 inch band saw. Nothing in the world like a really good band saw, I retired my table saw a couple of years ago when I started to lose the grip is my hands. I did the band saw dance many times buying larger saws every few years until I finally purchased my Felder 610. This is all to common with woodworkers but if I had the means to buy the big band saw first I would have saved a lot of money and enjoyed the band saw much more through the years.

Just my 2cents

Welcome to SawMill Creek.
Fair Winds and Following Seas my friend.

[Brian Tymchak]

I also have a few contrarion and practical thoughts:



A used contractors saw in good condition will suffice for most of your cutting needs. I've had a Ridgid TS3650 for almost 15 years and it has done everything I've needed to do on a table saw. I did put an Incra fence on it though in part to give me a fence for my router in my left wing. Some say that at 1.5 HP, contractor saws are underpowered. If you are doing production work all day, that's true. However, I've been cutting 8/4 Ash and Maple for years on mine. For a hobbyist it is sufficient. It also runs on 120v. I would certainly like to upgrade to a 3HP Sawstop at some point but I don't NEED to.
Buying s4s lumber doesn't automatically get you past the need to surface the lumber. Lumber moves with humidity changes. I've bought s4s and needed to joint and plane it to get it flat for my projects. I realized how much money I was wasting and started buying rough sawn lumber.
You can buy an after market splitter to add to your table saw if it does not have one. I use the MJ Splitter from MicroJig. A $30 solution that works great. You will want to use a Zero Clearance Insert (ZCI) on your saw anyway, so the MJ Splitter is an easy and effective solution.
Maybe it's just me but I had difficulty using a bandsaw effectively when I was a beginning woodworker, even though I bought arguably one of the better 14" saw on the market at the time (Rikon 14" Deluxe). Getting it set up correctly and making the guide and tracking adjustments to change blades takes a bit of education and trial/error training. In my experience, bandsawing almost always leaves a rougher cut than a tablesaw with a good blade. Having said that, I'm now starting to incorporate my bandsaw in more and more projects.
I"ve been using a Jet 6" jointer for as long as I've had the Ridgid table saw. I've jointed 9' lumber on that machine and it is still useful, however, I've had to work around the 6" limitation several times. It is likely going to be my next upgrade.


My recommendation is go with a used contractor saw and 6"or 8" jointer. This will rapidly increase your capabilities for the minimal outlay.

[Jacob Reverb]

My recommendation is go with a used contractor saw and 6"or 8" jointer. This will rapidly increase your capabilities for the minimal outlay.

+1 And spend the $2-3000 you save by not buying a superduperuber table saw on some decent planes, chisels, etc. This stuff adds up fast.

A router is nice to have, too.

[David Eisenhauer]

Welcome Phiip to SMC and Happy New Year. The TS vs BS discussion has been ongoing for many, many years and many woodworkers have faced that decision. IMO, a detail that facors into that decision is whether or not you intend to work chiefly with plywood (or similar sheet goods) or timber. Generally speaking (not at all written in stone), sheet goods are handled very well by a TS and timber can be handled by either (sort of), with a definite lean towards the BS if you venture much beyond the 3/4" material thickness. Like many others, I started with a TS and have gradually (over many years) moved more towards BS use as I moved away from plywood cabinetry and into solid wood furniture building. Someone above recommended that you attend classes or something similar to help you figure out what you want to do best. That is very good advise. Different tools (and machinery) work best at different tasks and it is easy to spend lots of $ on stuff that does not get used as much as you thought it would. I do not know where you are located, but if you are somewhere that another SMCer is, I have no doubt that a shop visit and some demo/hands on activity could be organized. I say go slow on buying for now and buy as the need for a specific tool arises as you work on projects. Have fun.

[mike stenson]

I'd buy the referenced Grizzly contractor saw and jointer for the $300, sink another couple hundred into a used T-square fence, and save the $$$ you'd spend on higher end tools for the moment on wood for the moment, and figure out what you enjoy making. In any case, those two tools are useful to have around.

[jeff norris 2011]

Smart start coming here first. If you can find a group of experienced woodworkers locally you would do well to hook up with them. You can can do some shop visits and likely get some leads on good used tools.

One issue is you don't know what type of woodworker you are and what type of work you are in to. I am mainly a furniture maker working with rough lumber. So I really need the big 4 - Table saw, Jointer, Planer, Bandsaw. If I knew this when I started I would have bought:

A saw stop cabinet saw (the didn't exist when I started)
A jointer/planer combo machine like the grizzly G0634XP
A 17" bandsaw like the grizzly G0513X2
A cyclone dust collector.

I have been at this for 20 years and had to be three table saws, three bandsaws and two jointers to get it "right". Of course I still don't have it as perfect as it could be but I am committed to my tools and they are too close to my ideal setup to change (delta unisaw, grizzly G0490 8" jointer, grizzly GO513 bandsaw, Delta lunch box planer).

Of course this would be a huge chunk of change to get started. Used tools are a great option, they tend to hold there value very well, so if you started with your buddies stuff, it can give you a taste if you like this and the kind of work you do and then you can sell them and buy some "for ever" tools.

There are lots of very good barely used tools out there. If you learn how to set them up, they will be every bit as good as new items. The one exception is the sawstop cabinet saw. This tool was a game changer, and as a result pushed allot of cabinet saws onto the used market as people upgraded.

[Edwin Santos]

Hi,
I'm not sure where you are located, but if by chance there is a woodworking school in your area or nearby, it may be worth checking it out. I have found the woodworking schools all invariably offer workshops and classes at all skill levels where you will get exposure to all the woodworking tools in creation and the people there are usually very helpful and supportive.

One of the dilemmas in woodworking is that pulling the trigger and buying a tool is just the beginning. How to use it safely and get the most out of it is a whole other endeavor. I always say, the tools don't come with skills. The manuals only offer basic operating information.

Anyway, check out a woodworking school; you might make some friends, have a good time, and come away with the ability to make more informed decisions about what to buy and how to meet your goals. My $.02

Edwin

[Mike Henderson]

I am going to be a bit more contrarian than most.
1. Go take some classes so you can figure out how you enjoy working
2. Join a local woodworking club if there is one around. You gain by seeing what folks are doing, and in my experience are very supportive of new woodworkers. (Online stuff can be helpful, but it is not the same as seeing things in person and getting some hands on time)
You will have a much better feel for the tooling direction to pursue

John

Job

I second this advice. First, you'll get some education on how to use the tools safely. And, most likely, you'll get to use some good tools at school which will help you decide what tools you want to purchase. You'll also learn how to build furniture properly - how to select the best joinery and how to accommodate wood movement.

As others have pointed out, it's very difficult to make a living building furniture - people just won't pay for custom built furniture. The stuff in the furniture stores is very acceptable for most people and you can't compete with those prices. Enjoy it as a hobby.

Mike

[Erik Loza]

I suppose I'm the contrarian here, but if I were starting with an empty shop, I'd spend first on a good, steel backed bandsaw - probably 14", but 18" if I could swing it - and a jointer - 6" will do for starters, but again, bigger if you can swing it.. Those two, with some well chosen hand tools would get me through the vast majority of "straight, solid wood" projects I can think of.

100% agree with this ^^^

Erik

[David Bassett]

A class, or several, would definitely be the quickest way to figure out what kind of woodworker you want to be. A good local club would be a close second.



What would be some good suggestions for a place to start with hand tools? It looks like they can get pretty expensive too. I've seen a few planes in the box stores, but i'm guessing they are probably crap. ...

We have an entire sub-forum where we argue about this all the time. :)

To dip your toes in the water I'd suggest starting small. Even if you end up basically machine based, small hand tools are useful for tuning things, etc.

To use hand tools effectively you have to achieve sharp. As a start a couple chisels and a basic sharpening kit would let you gain skills without (that) much of a commitment. Even with such a basic start there are many ways to go. Restoring old tools is probably the cheapest in dollars, but more costly in time, and has more to learn up front. (Use plus restoring.) Modern premium tools will cost big bucks, but are usable once you've mastered basic maintenance and usage skills. (Many many threads to browse about each, and every option between, in the Neanderthal sub-forum.) After trying this & that, I've settled on a middle ground for chisels the TFWW's Ashley Iles chisels. They're not the premium big ticket super-steel, but neither are the (rare here) rust bucket gems I need skills to restore to use. For sharpening them, long term you'll probably want either oil stones, water stones, or diamond plates & ceramic finishing stones, but for low entry cost it's hard to beat "scary sharp" system of wet/dry sandpaper on scrap float glass.

Good luck & have fun.

[PHILIP MACHIN]

Thanks for all the awesome advice! Some responses below in no particular order:




I'm going to head over to my buddies place tomorrow to check out the used TS and Jointer. It's starting to sound like he might just give it to me (His wife wants it gone) so that could be a big win. I checked out the MJ splitter, and that makes me feel a lot better about using it. I'm new to woodworking, but I've worked around heavy equipment and machining equipment my entire adult life and I have a heathly respect for what a 1hp+ motor can do to the human body, blade or otherwise.




I am in Southeast Michigan (Detroit Area), and I've been browsing around the web looking for classes. Maybe i'll get lucky and find something I can use my Post 9/11 GI bill to pay for.




I don't plan on making money from this. I was an Electrician on a submarine, and I got used to fixing and making things with my hands and now I have a desk job. I need a hands on outlet, and so far this has been doing the trick.





I am mostly interested in furniture, and home improvement type woodworking (Closet shelves, built-ins, banisters, etc)


Thanks again for all the great advice!

Phil

[Phil Mueller]

Phil, first, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!. And second, from one Phil to another, and living in SE Michigan as well, you are more than welcome to come try hand tools anytime. I have a very small (150 sq’) shop and am primarily a hand tool user. I have planes/saws/chisels/sharpening stuff that could give you some idea of what you may or may not want in the future. If you become a contributor ($6/year - see “donate” tab at top of page), you can private message me.

Would welcome meeting you.

Phil

[Andrew Seemann]

Rest assured, that no matter how much you research, plan, and soul search, in a year or two or five or ten (or twenty), you will realize that there were things you should have bought earlier, things that you should have bought better, things you didn't need to spend as much on, better orders to acquire things in, and probably some projects you should not have attempted. This happens to everyone. There is no way to know what you will like about the hobby ahead of time, you can only make the best guesses you can and then act on them. Some people get lucky and hit most things right the first time, but most of us end up with some detours on the way.

For example, when I started out, I used my dad's 9" Craftsman table saw he bought in 1956. It actually served me quite well, and I made lots of furniture with it, much of which we still use. But when I started working on white oak mission furniture, I soon realized that its 1 HP motor and slightly wobbly arbor weren't going to cut it anymore. I agonized over what to replace it with, mostly because I didn't have a lot of funds at the time. I eventually picked up an old Rockwell Unisaw from the 60s. It was 3 phase and needed some work. Because I had been a machinist, and I had the idea (then, not anymore) that old American Arn was always superior to imported Asian junk, I picked it up, bought a new motor for it and restored it, and used it until just recently. The thing was, I could have picked up a new Jet cabinet saw for a few hundred dollars more than the Unisaw. After what I put into the Unisaw, they were basically the same price, but the Jet was actually a much better saw. The fact was the Unisaw was in quite rough condition having come out of a production cabinet shop. The top was worn and had a dip in the center, and the miter slots were worn and sloppy. However it was so much of an upgrade from the then 40 year old Craftsman, that it took me years to realize this. Had I bought the Jet originally, I would still be using it. But then again, these are the things you realize only in hindsight with the benefit of many years of experience. At the same time, had the top to the other saw been in better condition, I probably would still be using it. You just don't know what the future holds:)

[Ken Kortge]

Thanks for your service! Google "the weekend woodworker". It's an online introduction to woodworking that includes recommendations for basic tools, with cost in mind, and specific projects and their plans. I signed up to it and have enjoyed it.

[PHILIP MACHIN]

I'm pretty familiar with what to look for when inspecting a used Table saw, but what should I be looking for with the jointer?

Thanks,

Phil

[Mick Simon]

Sounds like you've caught the bug, so I'll join David and John in their recommendations to sign up for a class.
The Grizzly deal would most likely be a no brainer in that you could no doubt flip both machines once you outgrow them, but most teaching facilities have good equipment and will expose you to the craft and to better equipment.

[Jim Dwight]

A jointer is a fairly simple machine. The outfeed table should be at the same elevation as the knives on the cutter head and the infeed table is lowered the amount you want to remove. If you raise the infeed table to the elevation of the outfeed table, they should be in a straight line. A straight edge would be handy to check them, a long level is a reasonable substitute.

I got my current lunchbox planner from a guy at church that thought it had an electrical issue (not in my experience) and wouldn't cut anymore (true but it was due to grossly dull blades). So you should check the blades but a need for sharpening including small nicks is not a big deal. To be expected.

I do not currently own a bandsaw. I used to have one but got rid of it during a move and haven't replaced it yet. I did all the trim carpentry for my house plus built 3 beds, 4 end tables, a chest of drawers, a crib, and a changing table/chest of drawers without a bandsaw. I need a new dining table, however, and the design I plan to use pretty much requires a bandsaw. So I will get one.

I buy my tools based upon what I want to build. Some people like using a bandsaw and hand tools but I do not have the patience for that. I use bandsaws for curved cuts, not straight ones. I have a SawStop PCS but used cheaper table saws for decades. But I always had a table saw. To me they are basic, not just for cutting things to size but also for joints, rabbetts, dados, and tenons. If you use sheet goods, I think a track saw should be on your list. Wen is the least expensive I've seen. Makita and DeWalt mid-level. Festool near the top level of price.

Without a bandsaw you need something that cuts curves. A bosch jigsaw is what I use now. Much better than most jigsaws and not terribly expensive. You will still want it with a bandsaw. I could possibly continue to get by with just the jigsaw but I don't want to. Even a good one lets the blade tilt especially in thicker wood.

[John Stankus]

Thanks for all the awesome advice! Some responses below in no particular order:

...


I am in Southeast Michigan (Detroit Area), and I've been browsing around the web looking for classes. Maybe i'll get lucky and find something I can use my Post 9/11 GI bill to pay for.



...



Thanks again for all the great advice!

Phil

At this point, I'm not suggesting classes that you would need to pay for with your GI Bill. Check out some of the intro classes at places like Woodcraft.

Here are some of the classes listed at the Woodcraft in Sterling Heights
Basic Table-Saw Skills - Table-saw 101 with: Bob McGarry
Prepairing Stock Using The Jointer, Planer & Table Saw with: Bob McGarry
Joinery On The Table Saw - Table Saw 201 with: Bob McGarry
Intro To Woodworking with: Jim Bryan
Router 101 - Basic Router Operations with: Bob McGarry
Router 201 - Router Table Operations with: Bob McGarry
Basic Box Making with: Bob McGarry

Each are one or two day and look to cost between $60 and $120. I'm not suggesting all of them, but getting in person instruction and hands on feedback I think is invaluable. Even though I mucked about growing up using my Dad's tools (tools his father bought in the 30s and 40s), I signed up for the Intro to Woodworking class at the Addison, TX Woodcraft when I got serious about getting into woodworking (almost 20 years ago now). It was taught by a retired Navy Chief. He said he spent 20+ years in the service toting around a Shopsmith because that is all he had space for. Even though I "knew" how to do a lot of the operations, the subtle hints and tricks from getting hands on experience with a knowledgeable instructor was very valuable.

Not sure of the geography of Michigan (yes my Michigander friends always show me the hand for the shape of Michigan), but there looks like there is an active Woodworking club that meets in Ann Arbor. https://semiww.org/january-2020-meeting-notice-drawer-construction-an-t17706.html

John

[PHILIP MACHIN]

I checked out the classes available at Woodcraft. The Sterling Heights location is more than an hour away, but that's no biggy for an all day class. I will definitely be taking advantage of that once I find a class that lines up with my work schedule.

If I end up going with the old grizzly table saw, I will probably spend a little bit to get a decent fence that I can carry with me to a new table saw later.

Thanks again for all the feedback and support. I can tell I've stumbled into a great community here.

[Scott Bernstein]

Consider watching some of the old episodes of Norm Abram's show (New Yankee Workshop). In one season he has a series of episodes each one focusing on a different tool...router, table saw, bandsaw, etc... These are a great introduction; a bit dated at this point but really not much has changed. In another season he makes an entire set of kitchen cabinets (I think one of the later seasons, maybe 18 or 20). In the first episode of that series on kitchens he again reviews some of the basics of the tools used.


I'll second what's been said. I agree that if you hope & plan to make good, lasting quality furniture a good quality table saw is very important. For me, the table saw and my combo jointer/planer machine are the ones I use most often. Keep in mind there are so many different styles and techniques to making furniture and using the machines. One machine can do so many different things depending on who is using it. What I do on my bandsaw may be very limited compared to what someone else does...and another person may not have one at all. I started with a small benchtop table saw and it was quite limiting on what I could do. Once i got a large cabinet saw, my projects improved a ton and I enjoyed it a lot more. Like many hobby woodworkers I have a full-time job and a family, thus time to learn woodworking techniques and time for making projects is limited to late nights on weekends. Going to live seminars and local woodworking clubs & shops is completely unpractical. It would be great of course to have time for that, but not possible for many people. You can learn an awful lot watching on-line videos, old episodes of Norm Abram's show, reading books, etc...and just learning-by-doing. After table saw and jointer/planer, I use my bandsaw quite often. Great for making rough cuts, re-sawing, and cutting curves and bevels. I do have a miter saw, which I could do without. I use it only for making quick or rough cuts on pieces when I have my table saw setup for a particular cut, for example. Router table and drill press are also fundamental tools in the shop and you can do a lot with those machines. Lastly, joinery is fundamental whether you work with machines or handtools. So many options... I use a pantorouter for mortise & tenons, box joints, and mortising for hinges. I also have a Festool Domino I use for larger pieces which may not fit easily onto the pantorouter (bringing the tool to the work, as they say). My Router Boss gets used for making raised panels and box joints in really long pieces.

So good luck and just start making furniture! One last suggestion...as you take on a new project, use that as an opportunity to learn a new technique or acquire a new piece of equipment. Does not need to be a large machine or complex technique every time, the point is to just keep progressing and learning..and have fun!

[BOB OLINGER]

Phil,

First, thank you for your service. Considering your question, I hope that you were ready for different opinions which is normal to this site. Just remember, all are sincere recommendations, just from different view points. IMO, I'd support several of the above recommendations by buying the best table saw you can for the money available. FWIW, I've been doing hobby woodworking for like 50 yrs. and never owned a band saw for about the first 30 or so. I got along good with at 9" Delta contractor TS for like 30+ yrs., then a 10" Delta contractor for about 5, then a SawStop cabinet which I really like. Then, I'd go with a jointer.

[Phil Mueller]

Not sure exactly where you’re located, but the Woodcraft in Canton also has classes, as well as the Rockler in Novi. The folks at Rockler (Woodcraft may as well) have also offered “private” lessons on various equipment they sell...just call and ask and I’m sure they would be happy to accommodate your schedule.

Another power tool store to consider is Glenn Wing Power Tools on Woodward Avenue in Birmingham, MI. They have been around for a long time and would be a good source for pros/cons of various machines.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Phil,
An excellent school to look into is the Marc Adams School in Franklin Indiana. It's 12 miles south of Indianapolis so would be a little under 5 hour drive from Detroit. Marc brings in the best instructors from all over and offers week long and weekend classes in the 40,000 square foot facility. Pretty much anything you want a class in it will be offered sometime during the school year (the printed catalog runs 155 pages).

I've taken a number of classes there and highly recommend it.

Cliff

[PHILIP MACHIN]

Not sure exactly where you’re located, but the Woodcraft in Canton also has classes, as well as the Rockler in Novi. The folks at Rockler (Woodcraft may as well) have also offered “private” lessons on various equipment they sell...just call and ask and I’m sure they would be happy to accommodate your schedule.

Another power tool store to consider is Glenn Wing Power Tools on Woodward Avenue in Birmingham, MI. They have been around for a long time and would be a good source for pros/cons of various machines.

Ahh, Canton is much closer but they didn't have any classes listed on their website. I work near Canton, so I'll drop by on my way home one night.

Also saw a Grizzly 1023 on craigs list with an upgraded fence and dust collection for 1000$. My wife would shank me though.

[william watts]

Buy the grizzly deal. Then decide on a furniture project you want to build. Then buy the hand, or power tools, as needed to make the project.

I have a table saw and a band saw. The band saw was the standard 14in delta. I didn't use it much. It was difficult to keep tuned, and was under powered. I now have a better band saw and use it increasingly more, but the cabinet saw is the main wood cutting tool in the shop.

I use both hand and power tools. Love using hand tools and have a lot of them, but still use the table saw for most cutting operations.

[Tony Latham]

4,000 fingers per year. Get a Sawstop.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/table-saw-sawstop-safety-finger-cut/

T

[PHILIP MACHIN]

4,000 fingers per year. Get a Sawstop.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/table-saw-sawstop-safety-finger-cut/

T




I don't disagree with you, but that's a lot of money. While it's difficult to put a value on your fingers, my wife's response when I mentioned my interest in a sawstop and the safety benefits was "find another hobby then". :p Difficult to argue with her stance.

With my budget I'd have to settle for a contractor saw too.

[mark mcfarlane]

Phil, One advantage of buying a good deal used, such as the one you have for $300, is you can turn around and sell the same equipment next year, or 5 years from now, for about the same price. Nothing lost while you learn, make some things, and decide what features are most important.

Most of us started with poor quality tools, learned how to tune them up, then decided if they warranted replacing or not.

I love my 5HP sliding table saw, but was also very happy making furniture on an old Delta contractors saw (after upgrading the fence) :). I am kind of a safety nut, so I like the idea of a Sawstop or a Euro Slider (my choice), but if you read/watch a lot of safety articles/videos about using conventional table saws you can learn how to make safe cuts using jigs, adjusting where you stand, using fence standoffs, keeping your hands FAR away from the blade,...

[Doug Dawson]

I don't disagree with you, but that's a lot of money. While it's difficult to put a value on your fingers, my wife's response when I mentioned my interest in a sawstop and the safety benefits was "find another hobby then". :p Difficult to argue with her stance.

Did she watch the video? I showed it to my wife, and she was overcome with enthusiasm.

[Steve Demuth]

Did she watch the video? I showed it to my wife, and she was overcome with enthusiasm.

My wife asks me from time to time when I'm going to replace my current TS with a Sawstop. I think the fact that my old man had over the years managed to cut pieces off six of his ten fingers with various power tools has a lot to do with that.

It's nominally on my post-retirement retooling list, but some days I lean toward a Euro combination machine to replace 3 or 4 machines I've assembled from various Craigslist and Ebay listings over the years instead. Plus, I am actually at least as concerned about the bandsaw as I am the table saw as a source for devastating injuries. With the right tools/jigs, plus an integral riving knife and guard, I don't think the table saw is the most likely source of injury in a shop. Body parts just don't need to get in proximity with a TS blade if you're properly equipped and do things right.

[Vinito Caleb]

... i'm a new first time homeowner with lots of projects to do...
I'm a I'm a 4th time homeowner and I've been living in a construction zone since 1993. One of these days, soon I think, I'll be wrapping up a whole lotta loose ends and my current home will finally be trimmed out, floors finished, and electrical all sorted out. I'm kinda looking forward to finding out what "regular" people do in their spare time as opposed to me who seems to constantly be catching up instead of having a house that's mostly just a house instead of a constant major construction project.

I'm a bit surprised that so many use their band saws more than a table saw. It all depends on your process and they might very well be correct, but as for me I use my table saw (old Powermatic 66) all the time. I would also recommend you get a cabinet saw rather than the "bench saw on a stand" type of saw. The stability makes a huge difference in my opinion.
Also, I do like how the new saws come standard with a riving knife which makes things much safer. Mine has a splitter but only works on 90º cuts. The riving knife follows the blade at any angle.
I'd add that a 10" saw does pretty OK with a 2HP motor most of the time. You can bog it down occasionally, but I wouldn't say it's frustratingly wimpy. So if you're on a budget, maybe at a minimum take a look at the G0771 (https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-10-2-HP-120V-Hybrid-Table-Saw-with-T-Shaped-Fence/G0771Z) . If you can afford a nicer saw, then I'll confidently say that it's highly unlikely you'll regret it. The time wrestling with a problematic wonky saw is just a waste for the future you.
Once you get a good table saw, build a decent crosscut sled and an extension table (maybe a "clip-on", i.e. removable for portability). A table saw with a sled and extension table, and maybe a dado set if you don't mind the occasional fiddling, would get you through a ton of yer standard operations.

My $.02, which as a relative newby myself, take it for what it's worth. I am old though and can say I've concluded this from personal experience at least.