Straight Edge recommendations

[Prashun Patel]

Looking for a reliable straight edge between 72" and 96" long. Any recommendations on something economical?

I'd be using this for setting jointer table outfeed and checking jointed edges and tops for tables for flat.

[Andrew Hughes]

Have look at Suburban tools they gone up a bit since I bought from them. They are good quality they ship in a thick cardboard tube. https://www.subtool.com/st/se_steel_straight_edges.html

Good Luck

[Robert Hazelwood]

At this length I don't think there is anything economical. You might get lucky with a piece of extruded aluminium or a nice level but they aren't spec'ed to a sufficient level of accuracy.

I think I would make shop-made straight edges, tuned to spec with a handplane. At this length sag and stiffness is an issue, so the straightedges need to be quite deep. I think I would make them like an I-beam- 1/2" mdf or BB web set into grooves in hard maple (or some other close-grained and hard species) caps, maybe 6" or 8" deep in total. Kind of like a manufactured floor joist.

Make them with keys or dowel holes so they can be locked together repeatably for match planing. Work them as a pair with a jointer plane and then check one edge against the other. Whatever gap you see should be twice the actual error. In theory you really need three straightedges to ensure straightness from checking against each other, but I think match planing should prevent most of the error (like matching up a concave with a convex surface- with match planing they will both be the same shape).

[Ron Selzer]

FOR ME I use something like this
https://www.menards.com/main/tools/hand-tools/measuring-layout-tools/levels/johnson-level-reg-96-glo-view-reg-box-level/53-039/p-1444436551364-c-1549901401008.htm
some people have the talent and patience needed to work with better straight edges which can top $10000 for an 8 footer. There was a discussion in the last month either here or another board that got heated over quality of the straight edge needed. Everyone has a different level of precision and an amount they are willing to spend to achieve that.

Good luck
Ron

[Mark Daily]

I think the only economical thing that long would be a carpenters or construction level.
I recently received this 50” straight edge for about $45 and it works well for all the uses you mention

https://www.ebay.com/itm/50-Aluminum-Straight-Edge-Guaranteed-Straight-to-Within-005-50-SE50/151867626327?hash=item235c041357:g:Em8AAOSwo6lWMsG o:sc:USPSPriority!85381!US!-1

[Edwin Santos]

When faced with the same dilemma I ended up with the 50" Taylor straightedge from Amazon for about $40. I think Veritas offers the same length for about the same price.

I don't know your definition of economical, but there is a 72" Starrett on Amazon for $671.

At the other end of the continuum is a 72" aluminum straight edge from Johnson Tools for about $20. My guess is that it would not be appropriate for machinist tasks and is probably aimed at drywallers and framers. Home Depot probably has something similar.

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks for the quick recommendations, guys.

I've gotten reco's on the Starrett, but it's a little pricey for what I think I need.

I am going to try the non-name 50". These are offered by several dealers online I see.

I have had luck with the Peach Tree 24" and 38" versions.

[Rich Engelhardt]

My Festool tracks do double duty as tracks for the track saw and straight edges.
My Makita tracks - sort of...

[Walter Mooney]

Prashun, go to a local commercial glass and glazing company and ask them for a scrap or left-over, full-length piece of their curtainwall framing material, or a piece of framing they'd use for an interior glass wall conference room in a commercial office buildout. It's all extruded aluminum, and it's almost always at least nine feet long. They'll have all kinds of profiles, but the most common one will be a 'channel' type profile.

[Darcy Warner]

I don't think a person could pick up an actual 8 foot straight edge by themselves. I have a few beam and camel back styles and after 4 feet long they are stupid heavy. All mine have been ground and scraped in.

Those are overkill for jointer tables.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Prashun, here's what I bought https://www.grizzly.com/products/iGaging-36-Bevel-Edge-Straight-Edge-with-Scale/T21580 . When Grizzly shipped it to me, I found one end was 0.003 out of tolerance. They shipped me a new one, told me to keep the defective one. The new one met the advertised tolerances. Now, when I need something close like measuring a piece of wood I have the defective one hanging on the side of a cabinet and use it. I used a punch to mark the one with the 0.003 defect at one end. The good one is in it's leather cover inside that same cabinet to use when I check equipment setup.

[Mark Hockenberg]

Prashun,

I originally bought a Starrett 4'. It was pricey, heavy and came bent due to bad packaging by Starrett.

I sent it back and bought the 50" Veritas aluminum. I know that it's technically less accurate than steel, but it seems to be excellent and I reach for it frequently and enjoy using it. I think it's a good buy at $94.50.

Cheers,
Mark

[Brian Holcombe]

I have a Starrett en route. If it arrives intact and checks out, you are welcome to use it for comparison to what you purchase.

A camelback in 8’ is not practical but they can be exceptionally accurate if they’re scraped in.

Starrett calls out .0002” per foot, so on 6’ that is .0012”. Plenty good, it it’s truly that accurate. Sub tool calls out .0005” per foot, so 6’ is .003”. Probably good enough and most likely sub tool is probably doing better than the number they call out.

If you can stand to wait, buy a piece of long MDF, triple it up, run 4 bolts into it and adjust those bolts to match the Starrett.

I have one hard rule, Accurate straight edges only leave the shop for inspection. Beyond that, every move they make just one more potential situation in which they may be damaged.

Be sure yo support them if you buy one, a sagging straight edge is often due to support, I have a short camelback on 6” thick x 4” thick ash, flattened and bolted to the wall.

[Myles Moran]

I have the no-name 50" straight edge. Thy advertised .005" over it's total length, as far as I can tell, it's under .002" (my smallest feeler gauge) and that's more than enough for me to do everything I need to with it, especially for woodworking.

[Alex Zeller]

Just curious what people are using to verify the straightness of a straight edge. I worked for a company that made passenger cars for Amtrak and they had a grade A granite 4'x8' surface plate. Of course the plate was a mile away from a granite quarry that made it so it was kind of a source of pride for the QA department. With that table it would be easy to verify how accurate a straight edge is.

[Myles Moran]

I placed mine across my jointer table in multiple places, and multiple orientations (like diagonal, rotated it 180° etc). If the low or high spot moved with the straight edge, I figured it was the straight edge. If it stayed at the same spot on the table, I figured it was the table. One table has a small .005" dip, but the other was dead nuts on. I could very well be wrong, but my thought it that even if I am, the error won't be bad for me in this application.

[Darcy Warner]

Here is my favorite one. 422542

[Patrick Walsh]

I don’t get jealous, honestly I don’t.

But you know I’m totally jealous as I have been trying to get myself to splurge on a real straight edge for years.

I keep buying actual machines. Today I just may have found a screaming deal on a 3K Lb lift table to get eh new shaper in should I purchase it.

How long is the real question?


I have a Starrett en route. If it arrives intact and checks out, you are welcome to use it for comparison to what you purchase.

A camelback in 8’ is not practical but they can be exceptionally accurate if they’re scraped in.

Starrett calls out .0002” per foot, so on 6’ that is .0012”. Plenty good, it it’s truly that accurate. Sub tool calls out .0005” per foot, so 6’ is .003”. Probably good enough and most likely sub tool is probably doing better than the number they call out.

If you can stand to wait, buy a piece of long MDF, triple it up, run 4 bolts into it and adjust those bolts to match the Starrett.

I have one hard rule, Accurate straight edges only leave the shop for inspection. Beyond that, every move they make just one more potential situation in which they may be damaged.

Be sure yo support them if you buy one, a sagging straight edge is often due to support, I have a short camelback on 6” thick x 4” thick ash, flattened and bolted to the wall.

[Gustav Gabor]

I have a Starrett 72" and 36", as well as a Veritas 38". The Starrett's are great, but I find the 72" is a bit heavy for checking jointers. The Veritas wasn't as straight as I wanted, so I modified it to be about as accurate as the Starrett. I mostly use the 72" Starrett for reference against other straight edges, or to check jointed and cut edges for straightness.

The tool I've found really valuable for machine setup, particularly for the jointer, is the 15" Starrett master precision Level no.199. They can be found used for under $200.
This level will get you fantastic accuracy, definitely enough for woodworking. It has an adjustment that allows the user to set the bubble dead-on.
I use it on jointer beds to check for twist and parallel. To check parallelism, I place it on top of an accurate 48" construction level that has been verified to be straight against the Starrett, and then check to see if the in-feed table is parallel to the out-feed. For consistency, I keep the Starrett level in the same location on the construction level while performing these checks.

A .0005 shim under one end will move the bubble noticeably. A bit finicky to use, but I've found the results considerably better than using a straightedge for setting up my jointer.
When using a level with this kind of accuracy, it's kind of depressing to watch the thick castings of my jointer deflect a tiny bit just from a bit of hand pressure...... I can't imagine how some use a power feeder....
Obviously those must be much better jointers than my old 12" .....

[Darcy Warner]

I use this every time I set up a machine.

422545

No. 98. Adjustable vial.

[Patrick Walsh]

I was using one of those on my slider by Brian lamb.

I must be a terrible mechanic as the thing drove me bazzerk.

So sensitive it’s just not realistic. Well not for me I guess.

Is the streets accuracy noted?


I use this every time I set up a machine.

422545

No. 98. Adjustable vial.

[Darcy Warner]

I was using one of those on my slider by Brian lamb.

I must be a terrible mechanic as the thing drove me bazzerk.

So sensitive it’s just not realistic. Well not for me I guess.

Is the streets accuracy noted?

It's a machinist level, its suppose to be sensitive. Lol

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Isn't the OP discussing straight edges rather than levels?

[Darcy Warner]

Isn't the OP discussing straight edges rather than levels?

Yes, but a machinist level is more accurate an easier to use for that purpose. The point is, a long precision straight edge is almost unnecessary, while a shorter one paired with a machinist level is a better way.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Yes, but a machinist level is more accurate an easier to use for that purpose. The point is, a long precision straight edge is almost unnecessary, while a shorter one paired with a machinist level is a better way.

Better is subjective. It might be better in the mind of a machinist but for the regular, especially hobbyist user, I'd suggest that a long straight edge would be the faster method of checking straightness of the jointer beds and their co-planer relationships. That being said, you'll notice the one I bought is only 36" long and it has served my purposes well. Everyone needs to remember we are discussing woodworking not metal machining. Wood is a much more dynamic medium than most metals. A few thousandths is nothing when considering wood. Yes, there are some notable exceptions but generally speaking the dynamics in wood is such that a few thousandths is nothing.

[Brian Holcombe]

Just curious what people are using to verify the straightness of a straight edge. I worked for a company that made passenger cars for Amtrak and they had a grade A granite 4'x8' surface plate. Of course the plate was a mile away from a granite quarry that made it so it was kind of a source of pride for the QA department. With that table it would be easy to verify how accurate a straight edge is.

On anything shorter than 18" I can use my Starrett surface plate, anything longer than that I use the surface plate of a shop near me who are quite friendly and have a AA 4x8 surface plate that is inspected annually.

[Brian Holcombe]

I don’t get jealous, honestly I don’t.

But you know I’m totally jealous as I have been trying to get myself to splurge on a real straight edge for years.

I keep buying actual machines. Today I just may have found a screaming deal on a 3K Lb lift table to get eh new shaper in should I purchase it.

How long is the real question?

6', decided to splurge. I've had the want for a long while, and it will be handy to have.


Better is subjective. It might be better in the mind of a machinist but for the regular, especially hobbyist user, I'd suggest that a long straight edge would be the faster method of checking straightness of the jointer beds and their co-planer relationships. That being said, you'll notice the one I bought is only 36" long and it has served my purposes well. Everyone needs to remember we are discussing woodworking not metal machining. Wood is a much more dynamic medium than most metals. A few thousandths is nothing when considering wood. Yes, there are some notable exceptions but generally speaking the dynamics in wood is such that a few thousandths is nothing.

Lets separate 'machine setup' from 'woodworking'. Machine setup is a task in which machined surfaces made of cast iron, aluminum and steel which are supposedly made to high tolerances are set into alignment with one another. This requires proper tools to do accurately, proper is subjective certainly but so called machinist tools are not in the least out of bounds in this area.

I will pose simply that more accuracy is not harmful in this arena and generally stands to improve results and make an easier task for the person doing the setup. If you spend the entire process second guessing your tools then you're wasting your time and won't be producing a good result.

Those same checking and inspection tools are not necessarily the same tools one would use for the wood work which is to follow.

Machine shops operate in the same fashion, they have 'inspection grade' tools and 'shop grade' the two commonly overlap but the inspection grade tools are typically more accurate.

[Darcy Warner]

Better is subjective. It might be better in the mind of a machinist but for the regular, especially hobbyist user, I'd suggest that a long straight edge would be the faster method of checking straightness of the jointer beds and their co-planer relationships. That being said, you'll notice the one I bought is only 36" long and it has served my purposes well. Everyone needs to remember we are discussing woodworking not metal machining. Wood is a much more dynamic medium than most metals. A few thousandths is nothing when considering wood. Yes, there are some notable exceptions but generally speaking the dynamics in wood is such that a few thousandths is nothing.

This goes to show most haven't actually set up any real equipment besides a table saw, a small jointer and a small planer.

If machines are not level and sitting cocked, I don't care how long or accurate your straight edge is, you are not going to get anywhere.

I can't set up a moulder with a long straight edge, I need to know if it is level and not twisted. Oliver jointers are impossible to set up without first leveling the base. Big wedge bed planers need to be level before you set the machine up. Yes, its woodworking, but almost every manufacturer includes leveling the machine as one of the first steps in setting it up.

A good machinist level can be picked up fairly cheap on the used market.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

This goes to show most haven't actually set up any real equipment besides a table saw, a small jointer and a small planer.

In my case, sir, I had over 34 years experience setting up equipment much more involved than a table saw, small jointer and small planer. To level MRI magnets weighing multiple tons, we used a water line bubble and stainless steel shims. To level CT scanners, we just used machinist levels. To level x-ray equipment, again we used machinist levels.

The point is that the audience here (mainly hobbyists) may not have the education, experience or the skills, you have and therefore, the method you deem better isn't better for them. And while yes we are talking about setting up machinery made of metal, those machines are working wood which is dynamic. I am not suggesting that setting up the machine accurately isn't important, but rather, it's important to find, to use, a method the user understands and is willing to use, regardless of the time involved in using that method.

Try centering an x-ray tube on a CT scanner to the 0.00x of a mm in all 3 planes using an x-ray beam and a built-in phantom in the CT gantry. I am well aware of the importance of accuracy when it is critical. If you shot too many x-rays within a given time period, you had to walk away for 4 hours until the tube cooled back down before continuing the alignment process.

[Doug Dawson]

This goes to show most haven't actually set up any real equipment besides a table saw, a small jointer and a small planer.

If machines are not level and sitting cocked, I don't care how long or accurate your straight edge is, you are not going to get anywhere.

I can't set up a moulder with a long straight edge, I need to know if it is level and not twisted. Oliver jointers are impossible to set up without first leveling the base. Big wedge bed planers need to be level before you set the machine up. Yes, its woodworking, but almost every manufacturer includes leveling the machine as one of the first steps in setting it up.

A good machinist level can be picked up fairly cheap on the used market.

The floor being out of level by a few thou here and there should not be an impediment to quality work, provided you have a good straightedge. :^) I can understand your concern that an uneven floor would affect the accuracy of the machine, if it's that flimsy. You can always cinch it here and there, provided you have a good reference for where the accuracy matters (a decent straightedge.) Dial it in by whatever means you have.

[Darcy Warner]

Then you already know if you are not starting with a level machine, one would be spitting into the wind no matter how long, expensive or precise a straight edge is.
Go buy a general tools machinist level, buy a used lufkin, starrett, etc but without a proper foundation one may as well use a banana for a straight edge.

[Darcy Warner]

The floor being out of level by a few thou here and there should not be an impediment to quality work, provided you have a good straightedge. :^) I can understand your concern that an uneven floor would affect the accuracy of the machine, if it's that flimsy. You can always cinch it here and there, provided you have a good reference for where the accuracy matters (a decent straightedge.) Dial it in by whatever means you have.

Not a matter of flimsy, my 12k pound weinig moulders frame can easily be twisted by a floor that is not perfectly flat and I have yet to see a floor that is perfectly flat.

Level machine, adjust from there.

[Doug Dawson]

Not a matter of flimsy, my 12k pound weinig moulders frame can easily be twisted by a floor that is not perfectly flat and I have yet to see a floor that is perfectly flat.

Level machine, adjust from there.

The point being, that you're adjusting things so that the frame is not twisted, and the machine doesn't have to be "gravitationally level" (what a bubble level of whatever quality measures) to do that.

[Brian Holcombe]

5 ton Cincinatti mills need leveling all the same, it matters even with stiff machines.

[Doug Dawson]

5 ton Cincinatti mills need leveling all the same, it matters even with stiff machines.

Just because a machine weighs 5 tons, doesn't mean it can't creak and deform under its own weight, apparently. Flimsy indeed.

[Darcy Warner]

The point being, that you're adjusting things so that the frame is not twisted, and the machine doesn't have to be "gravitationally level" (what a bubble level of whatever quality measures) to do that.

I would prefer it to be level, makes it easier for the feed deck an off feed deck to work properly.

My 13k pound whitney planer needs leveled before you can actually set it up and have it dialed in correctly.

A level will show you more than a straight edge will with most things.

[Doug Dawson]

I would prefer it to be level, makes it easier for the feed deck an off feed deck to work properly.

My 13k pound whitney planer needs leveled before you can actually set it up and have it dialed in correctly.

A level will show you more than a straight edge will with most things.

I like my machines to be level as well, it helps with setting up infeed/outfeed supports. But the people who poured the concrete were idjits, so I've gotten good at coping with it. ;^)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

With as many people who at SMC have their tools on mobile bases, I'd suggest that being overly critical of "level" could be a lesson in futility. My jointer is on a mobile base. My hybrid table saw is on a mobile base. My lunchbox planer is on a mobile base. The floor in my dedicated 720 sq. ft. shop isn't perfectly level. I check the setup of the fence on my Grizzly 8" jointer every time I use it with a machinist square IF I am wanting to insure a square corner on a piece of wood. The machinist squares are used so often, the 3 piece set resides in a protective plastic case on my assembly table for easy access. I am not arguing or debating the importance of accuracy but merely stating it's important that one consider to whom they are making such suggestions and the conditions in which they operate daily.

And that the amount of accuracy necessary is subjective...merely a matter of personal opinion.

Some people want to obsess over accuracy and don't spend enough time working wood, in my opinion.

[Jacob Reverb]

Some people want to obsess over accuracy and don't spend enough time working wood, in my opinion.

No kidding. Talk about bottomless rabbit holes...

[Brian Holcombe]

The point being, that you're adjusting things so that the frame is not twisted, and the machine doesn't have to be "gravitationally level" (what a bubble level of whatever quality measures) to do that.

I agree, but unless it's pretty close to level it's very difficult to compare anything.


Just because a machine weighs 5 tons, doesn't mean it can't creak and deform under its own weight, apparently. Flimsy indeed.

That is true.


With as many people who at SMC have their tools on mobile bases, I'd suggest that being overly critical of "level" could be a lesson in futility. My jointer is on a mobile base. My hybrid table saw is on a mobile base. My lunchbox planer is on a mobile base. The floor in my dedicated 720 sq. ft. shop isn't perfectly level. I check the setup of the fence on my Grizzly 8" jointer every time I use it with a machinist square IF I am wanting to insure a square corner on a piece of wood. The machinist squares are used so often, the 3 piece set resides in a protective plastic case on my assembly table for easy access. I am not arguing or debating the importance of accuracy but merely stating it's important that one consider to whom they are making such suggestions and the conditions in which they operate daily.

And that the amount of accuracy necessary is subjective...merely a matter of personal opinion.

Some people want to obsess over accuracy and don't spend enough time working wood, in my opinion.

I find most of the people who become obsessed with accuracy are those who spend a lot of time working with wood. Often enough one wants to minimize annoying errors that make the day longer and going over things carefully helps that happen. I cut 200+ tenons in between responses here, all within .003" and with perfectly square shoulders. I wouldn't have been able to do so if I didn't spend a few hours in the evening going over equipment every so often.

I teach beginners and experienced woodworkers alike, I usually get a few chuckles when I bring out 'machinist' tools but I ground it in realty and relative application and people do not leave confused (as far as I'm aware). Beginners aren't given enough credit, I find people pickup things pretty quickly in the machinist realm.

[Zachary Hoyt]

The thing that gets me every time I make something larger like a chair or a bookcase is that I don't have anything big enough and dead flat to set it on to see if all four feet are even. The concrete floor in the workshop isn't terrible, but it's also not perfectly flat, and the same is true for the various work tables. The top of the table saw is the best flat surface I have, and it's not that big. I'm sorry to digress from the thread topic like this, but it's been on my mind lately.

[Doug Dawson]

The thing that gets me every time I make something larger like a chair or a bookcase is that I don't have anything big enough and dead flat to set it on to see if all four feet are even. The concrete floor in the workshop isn't terrible, but it's also not perfectly flat, and the same is true for the various work tables. The top of the table saw is the best flat surface I have, and it's not that big. I'm sorry to digress from the thread topic like this, but it's been on my mind lately.

Yea verily. Torsion box assembly platform.You might also consider the feature of adjustable feet, helpful (in the case of a bookcase or whatever else might be set against the wall) for dealing with carpeting.

[Peter Kelly]

Looking for a reliable straight edge between 72" and 96" long. Any recommendations on something economical?

I'd be using this for setting jointer table outfeed and checking jointed edges and tops for tables for flat.I've got a 72" Stabila level that I use for these sorts of tasks. Not horribly expensive at $120. Nice and straight too. https://bisstabila.com/stabila/product-url-25563.html

[michael dilday]

I went to Home Depot and got the 72" empire box level. $69. Works great.

[Allan Speers]

My 3 cents:

I have several long carpenter's levels, but none match each other. So when I recently went to check / buy an 8" jointer, I purchased the Lee Valley 50" aluminum straight edge.
It's great for the money, but it doesn't balance itself on the tables, which is a minor inconvenience.

So I used it to check my carpenter's levels. Only one was perfectly flat, and by flat I mean you can't see a flashlight between it and the Veritas. This is an older Empire Magnum 5', the type that is made of brown resin but with aluminum edges. Sadly, they don't seem to make these any longer.

I also have two of the 72" blue, all aluminum Empire's, but they are both VERY far what you'd consider accurate, despite what they claim in their advertising.
-------------------------

But regardless:

Prashun, you didn't say how large your jointer is. If it's a 64"-72" table, then as others have said, you don't really NEED a 6' reference to check / set it up. See my recent thread asking "jointer testing & setup - what tools?" - I got some excellent advice there.

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks. I have a Hammer A3-41 (a JP combo, 36" infeed and outfeed respectively). I am trying to joint 9' boards, so I have constructed 48" outfeed and infeed extensions. This is where the issue is. I am having trouble getting the extensions perfectly level.

After adjusting the knives and shimming the extensions, I am still getting a slightly convex (sprung) joint. It's about 1/16" over 9 feet. The boards are between 6"and 10" wide.

In fact, I am able to clamp the joints shut easily enough - even before some final passes with the jointer plane.

At this point it's a personal challenge to get a perfect joint off the machine. My definition of this is that there is no visible space when the boards are brought together by hand. I will see if the 50" straight edge

[Patrick Walsh]

This setup will work on your machine. The infeed is a Felder unit. Outfeed is aigner but on a Felder bracket. Table is modified to fit the Felder bracket. I use the largest Stabilia R beam level to set it up. I made the bench in the background with this setup along with a number of dinning tables at this point. I struggled previous as you are with the exaggerated spring joint.

Set the level on the infeed and adjust to the extension table. Same on outfeed and your done. Just have to set cut depth prior and not move it. The long level really helps as it’s long enough to be to long so you know what you got the full length. Think the level was like $300. I still want a 72” Starrett but this is working for this purpose.

Sorry no picture of level but I promise it’s what I use. Zero spring joint just a perfect jointed edge off the machine and no helper.
422581
Thanks. I have a Hammer A3-41 (a JP combo, 36" infeed and outfeed respectively). I am trying to joint 9' boards, so I have constructed 48" outfeed and infeed extensions. This is where the issue is. I am having trouble getting the extensions perfectly level.

After adjusting the knives and shimming the extensions, I am still getting a slightly convex (sprung) joint. It's about 1/16" over 9 feet. The boards are between 6"and 10" wide.

In fact, I am able to clamp the joints shut easily enough - even before some final passes with the jointer plane.

At this point it's a personal challenge to get a perfect joint off the machine. My definition of this is that there is no visible space when the boards are brought together by hand. I will see if the 50" straight edge

[Andrew Hughes]

I would like to suggest you focus on the outfeed side long and flat is the key.
My jointer is 99 inches over all length. I set the beds up with a suburban tools straight edge.
This is a 11 ft white pine that was faced and jointed without extensions. I wouldn’t mind have one that Oliver offered back in the day.

Good Luck

[Dennis Yamamoto]

See John White's book, " Care and Repair of Shop Machines". In Chapter 2 on Jointers, he shows how to make a master bar for checking jointer tables. It's as economical as MDF and drywall screws.


Looking for a reliable straight edge between 72" and 96" long. Any recommendations on something economical?

I'd be using this for setting jointer table outfeed and checking jointed edges and tops for tables for flat.

[Carl Crout]

My Festool tracks do double duty as tracks for the track saw and straight edges.
My Makita tracks - sort of...

What does that mean? The Makita track isn't straight or just not convenient to use as a straight edge?

[Jim Becker]

I have several long carpenter's levels, but none match each other. So when I recently went to check / buy an 8" jointer, I purchased the Lee Valley 50" aluminum straight edge.
It's great for the money, but it doesn't balance itself on the tables, which is a minor inconvenience.

Take one or two blocks of wood and put a slot in them that's a hair wider than the thickness of the straight edge and a hair deeper than the height. Slip it/them over the top of the straight edge as you have it on the surface you're testing. It/they will hold the straight edge up without binding it so your hands are freed to do what needs done.

[Jim Becker]

I would like to suggest you focus on the outfeed side long and flat is the key.

I agree with this...support on the finished side is more important to get dead on than on the infeed side, in my experience.

[Mark Gibney]

I like your idea of using the wood blocks Jim. I use a 72" carpet layers straight edge from Crain tools and your idea will help.
I think I paid $70 or so for the straight edge.

https://www.craintools.com/carpet-other/straight-edges

[Prashun Patel]

That's a great idea.

[Randy Heinemann]

I may get some disagreement but I don't think you need a straight edge that long to make sure the two surfaces of a jointer are in alignment. The total length of the table on my Jet 8" is 72" and I feel I get a good read on flatness with a 36" Woodpeckers straight edge. I don't feel I need to have a straight edge that extends the entire length of the tables. I think it would be obvious if they weren't co-planer with the 36" straight edge. At least my jointer yields edges and faces that are smooth and straight for the purposes of gluing and building furniture or cabinets, so I think it's working. I'm sure there are other ways to check flatness of table tops; like winding sticks. A 36" straight edge and either purchased or home made winding sticks would probably be a lot cheaper and more likely to be reliable than a 72" average priced straight edge.

[Alex Zeller]

Seams like there's more than one topic being discussed here. They are similar but not quite the same. A straight edge for woodworking can have many functions with each requiring a different level of accuracy. If you are trying to check the flatness of a cast iron table or set a table up to a blade on a machine then you will want very accurate. If you are looking to set up an outfeed table then +/- .0005 is overkill. Even on outfeed tables there's two kinds. Those who have a large shop where machines and tables don't move so they can be fine tuned and then there's the kind that are used in a small shop where the outfeed table is moved all the time and is used with multiple pieces of equipment.

For my outfeed table I use a glass straightedge. It's an 8' wooden Lufkin and has a slight bow to it of about 1/32" of an inch. But it does well for what I use it for. It was free to me but if buying one I would most likely opt for a phenolic version. They make them up to 12' long (maybe more), aren't too heavy, and don't move like wood does. But if you want one 8' or longer shipping is an issue since UPS doesn't like things 8' long.

[Brian Holcombe]

+/- .0005” per foot is .003” over 6’.

[Patrick Walsh]

You act like that’s significant ;)

Ok I won’t screw this thread up anymore than it already is.

But in all seriousness what has kept me from splurging on. A sub tool or sterrett 72” edge is it has to get shipped to me. And then I’ll need someplace to check it. I tried calling Sterrett in athol and they do not sell direct.

I have been working with a machine shop local to me “just there this morning” and I’m sure they have a large plate being a 35k sq ft facility with like 6 zillion machines and 40 employees. Place is just unreal actually but that’s another thread.

I see a use for both edge and level. My complaint about the level is they are so sensitive. If “And I do” pair a machine level with my Stabillia levels like four stabillia all working off and with each other making a box around my table and x through the middle I can get the stabillia levels all reading exactly the same. Put the dam machinist level up there and set it match one side. Move it to the other side and the bubble disappears not just moves. It’s enough to make you want buck yourself off a building into moving traffic.

So what does that say about the accuracy of a standard high quality level?

That’s a question and observation not starting a argument.


+/- .0005” per foot is .003” over 6’.

[Jacob Reverb]

+/- .0005” per foot is .003” over 6’.

Angstroms, puh-leaze.

Better yet, quark-diameters. :eek: (I use quarter-sawn.)

[Edwin Santos]

I don't know if this helps but here goes - I have had good experience with the telephone support from the Felder/Hammer techs in Delaware. They seem to be big fans of the Oneway gauge. This is a $99 dial indicator in a unique cast iron housing. With it you can check both tables for flat and planarity, both in relation to each other and in relation to the cutterhead. Once you have done this, use the same gauge and the same procedure at the junction between machine and your auxiliary tables at both the infeed and outfeed side.
Personally I think a Oneway is a more accurate and controlled process than a super long straightedge and feeler gauges plus it can do other things like measure fences for square or tune other machines.

If I understand your post and you are getting a convex cut, then I would say you have a valley condition where one or both tables (or aux tables) are kicked up slightly on the end.
Maybe try giving Felder's techs a call and see if the feedback you get is similar to mine.

[Patrick Walsh]

I won’t mention any names but my tables on my 16” combo have what I call substantial twist in then. Doesn’t matter till you joint a 16” wide board. I’ll leave it to you all to figure out who set it up that way after like 30 attempts to get it right.

The oneway tool is good but imop only combined with a long straight edge for a jointer.

Personally a straight edge oneway and shims are all that’s needed. But I personally like David Bests approach of mounting dial indicators off the end of straight edges the length off both the infeed and outfeed. No double guessing what is what with the above approach you just know..

[Brian Holcombe]

You act like that’s significant ;)

Ok I won’t screw this thread up anymore than it already is.

But in all seriousness what has kept me from splurging on. A sub tool or sterrett 72” edge is it has to get shipped to me. And then I’ll need someplace to check it. I tried calling Sterrett in athol and they do not sell direct.

I have been working with a machine shop local to me “just there this morning” and I’m sure they have a large plate being a 35k sq ft facility with like 6 zillion machines and 40 employees. Place is just unreal actually but that’s another thread.

I see a use for both edge and level. My complaint about the level is they are so sensitive. If “And I do” pair a machine level with my Stabillia levels like four stabillia all working off and with each other making a box around my table and x through the middle I can get the stabillia levels all reading exactly the same. Put the dam machinist level up there and set it match one side. Move it to the other side and the bubble disappears not just moves. It’s enough to make you want buck yourself off a building into moving traffic.

So what does that say about the accuracy of a standard high quality level?

That’s a question and observation not starting a argument.

A machinist level is probsbly best used after leveling with a more typical level. The Mitutoyo last are great for this as they are available in three different levels of precision.

[Patrick Walsh]

That’s what I was suggesting.

Setup a machine with regular levels and shims dual indicators. Then throw the machinist level on it and it makes the prior work look like a child did as it’s so sensitive.



A machinist level is probsbly best used after leveling with a more typical level. The Mitutoyo last are great for this as they are available in three different levels of precision.

[Jerry Bruette]

I've never used a jointer let alone set one up but i'm curious if you could use a piece of piano wire and a couple of pieces of key stock to get every thing inline?

When I worked in the paper industry we would use piano wire and two pieces of key stock to line up the suction boxes on the paper machine.

Process was
1. tie piano wire off on one end of suction section
2. place a piece of key stock,usually 1/4 inch, on top of the first suction box
3. run piano wire to other end of suction section, fifteen or twenty feet away
4. place a piece of the same sized key stock on top of last suction box
5. hang a heavy weight on wire to pull it tight
6. check and adjust all the suction boxes between the first and last using the taught wire as a straight edge

I'm picturing a wire hung over each end of the length of the jointer with a piece of keystock under the wire on each end. Then using a third piece of the same size keystock to check the gap from the table surface to the wire and make the proper adjustments.

The process would be similar to using a string to make sure two sheaves are coplaner.

Any of that gibberish make sense?

[Brian Holcombe]

That’s what I was suggesting.

Setup a machine with regular levels and shims dual indicators. Then throw the machinist level on it and it makes the prior work look like a child did as it’s so sensitive.

I have a 24” carpenters level and I need to lift it about 1/16” to get it to move one deviation, so that’s about .030” per foot. The finest mitutoyo is .00024” per foot. They’re fine enough that holding them in your hand will change the measurement.

Really it’s pretty difficult to do with shims, much easier with screw type adjusters.

[Patrick Walsh]

$500 for a 12” level...

I dint know what I paid for my lamb toolworks level probably close to that.

But man at some point the spending on this stuff just becomes obscene. And that’s coming from a guy that can spend like a champ.

I’m the first person you will hear pitch a fit when a machine has what I would call a fatal defect. But I’ll also be the first person to say I can setup the biggest piece of crap machine “fatal defects” and all and get a very high quality product off it. Is it efficient, no, frustrating as hell yup!

I like perfection as much as any other type A anal retentive weirdo but even my pockets can’t keep up with chasing the machinery perfection thing.

I have now also had the experience of tow brand new fairly high end machines being delivered into the shop. Dropped on the floor plugged in and put to work without checking anything but the work quickly referencing pieces and or just using a caliper or other known flat surface to see what’s up. Both machines produce a perfect result and I suspect all the fancy tools would tell the same. Not one is even close to being leveled just dropped off a pallet jack and to work. Actually three, jointer Martin T54, planner SCM 6 whatever class just bellow L Invincible. I hate Scm and I’d buy this machine to be honest and a SCM uno wide belt. All plug and play.

Point is I partially can’t help but wonder if my money is better spent just financing the best of the best “suffer once” and save the cost of the $7-3000K straight edge and $500 levels and all the frustration and wasted time jerking around with machines.

And no I’m not saying anything bout my old t75 I’m not even finished with or the t23 I’m probably about to purchase. I’m just making a point that the money is nuts and the time has to be considered.


You know if I was selling Moulding machines and double sided planers like Darcy and or four axis cnc mills like I was in a shop full of this morning I could see spending on such expensive tools. But you know even the crap,job you know who did setting up my jointer would only be noticed by a person like your or I Brian as you really have to expect and be looking for machinist perfection when building to even pick up on it. And even then it’s only after a fair amount of use you figure things are not right. The average hobby guy that users his machines intermittently might never even figured it out.



I have a 24” carpenters level and I need to lift it about 1/16” to get it to move one deviation, so that’s about .030” per foot. The finest mitutoyo is .00024” per foot. They’re fine enough that holding them in your hand will change the measurement.

Really it’s pretty difficult to do with shims, much easier with screw type adjusters.

[Darcy Warner]

I have only bought one new dial indicator, all my other set tools have been bought used for maybe 20% new cost.

I have a place fairly local I can drop stuff off at to be calibrated, end up at about 30% new cost.

I have 4 Kennedy machinist boxes full of precision measuring tools that probably cost me 400 bucks total.

I purchase new if I have to have it right away.

Although I am currently awaiting a few Wera Ratchets, a couple stahlwille ratchets and some stuff from Hazet.

I do love my vintage William's, Armstrong and Proto tools as well.

[Darcy Warner]

I've never used a jointer let alone set one up but i'm curious if you could use a piece of piano wire and a couple of pieces of key stock to get every thing inline?

When I worked in the paper industry we would use piano wire and two pieces of key stock to line up the suction boxes on the paper machine.

Process was
1. tie piano wire off on one end of suction section
2. place a piece of key stock,usually 1/4 inch, on top of the first suction box
3. run piano wire to other end of suction section, fifteen or twenty feet away
4. place a piece of the same sized key stock on top of last suction box
5. hang a heavy weight on wire to pull it tight
6. check and adjust all the suction boxes between the first and last using the taught wire as a straight edge

I'm picturing a wire hung over each end of the length of the jointer with a piece of keystock under the wire on each end. Then using a third piece of the same size keystock to check the gap from the table surface to the wire and make the proper adjustments.

The process would be similar to using a string to make sure two sheaves are coplaner.

Any of that gibberish make sense?

I have done this before and it works great on long stuff.

[Patrick Walsh]

Hmm,

Can you tell me what kind of place and or person would do this kind of work. I have had a hard enough time finding machine shops local to me to tend to the few things I need on the Martin. Pretty much any shop around her is a multi million dollar facility 10’s and 10’s and thousands of sq ft and lines of duplicate machines worth as much as my house a piece.

I do desire the knowledge and ability to do the work but between buying the machines then the tools needed to fix the machines or subbing out the work I dont have the machines to produce on my own sadly I end up having to say uncle till I can come up for air again before I risk going broke.

Sorry rant there or rather some perspective. But you know recently I found a couple sweet 72” camelback edges but didn’t teen consider buying them as I wouldn’t even know where to take then to get the hand scrapped and calibrated.


I have only bought one new dial indicator, all my other set tools have been bought used for maybe 20% new cost.

I have a place fairly local I can drop stuff off at to be calibrated, end up at about 30% new cost.

I have 4 Kennedy machinist boxes full of precision measuring tools that probably cost me 400 bucks total.

I purchase new if I have to have it right away.

Although I am currently awaiting a few Wera Ratchets, a couple stahlwille ratchets and some stuff from Hazet.

I do love my vintage William's, Armstrong and Proto tools as well.

[Darcy Warner]

Hmm,

Can you tell me what kind of place and or person would do this kind of work. I have had a hard enough time finding machine shops local to me to tend to the few things I need on the Martin. Pretty much any shop around her is a multi million dollar facility 10’s and 10’s and thousands of sq ft and lines of duplicate machines worth as much as my house a piece.

I do desire the knowledge and ability to do the work but between buying the machines then the tools needed to fix the machines or subbing out the work I dont have the machines to produce on my own sadly I end up having to say uncle till I can come up for air again before I risk going broke.

Sorry rant there or rather some perspective. But you know recently I found a couple sweet 72” camelback edges but didn’t teen consider buying them as I wouldn’t even know where to take then to get the hand scrapped and calibrated.

It's a place that sells measuring tools, they provide a calibration service. There is always a company like that in most locales, they usually come out to bigger shops and pick up/drop off stuff like that. They rebuild indicators, test calipers, out side mics, etc.

I would ask a place like that for a recommendation on grinding/scraping in straight edges.

[Patrick Walsh]

I was figuring I could probably ask the shop that did the EDM work on my hand wheels. But what you say makes sense just as carpenters need a saw blade sharpening service..

I just can’t spent the $700 in a straight edge or a grand for four indicators and mag bases.. I’d like to as I like my crap but I just can’t..

Thanks by the way..



It's a place that sells measuring tools, they provide a calibration service. There is always a company like that in most locales, they usually come out to bigger shops and pick up/drop off stuff like that. They rebuild indicators, test calipers, out side mics, etc.

I would ask a place like that for a recommendation on grinding/scraping in straight edges.

[Dan Jansen]

I’ve got a carpet laying straight edge just like Mark and it’s definitely more than good enough for woodwork. That’s my vote for the sweet spot on price vs accuracy.

[Brian Holcombe]

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[Brian Holcombe]

Make the outfeed height at the cutter first, I use an edge jointed board and gauge how much the board lifts when the cutter is rotated by hand. I want about .001-.002”. Even at the back and front.

Check my level at the cutter head on the outfeed, note my number.

Move it to end of outfeed, adjust to be the same (twist).

Bring indeed level, check with level. This ensures the cut is consistent. Verify with straight edge and feeler gauges.

Move the level to the end of the infeed, remove twist.

Tirn the level 90 degrees, check infeed and outfeed.

This only works if the tables are flat, these tables are pretty dang flat, I could trap a .001” feeler gauge anywhere I checked.

[Brian Holcombe]

I was figuring I could probably ask the shop that did the EDM work on my hand wheels. But what you say makes sense just as carpenters need a saw blade sharpening service..

I just can’t spent the $700 in a straight edge or a grand for four indicators and mag bases.. I’d like to as I like my crap but I just can’t..

Thanks by the way..

I paid $150~ for the mitutoyo levels, they were new old stock, so never touched. The camelback was hand scraped, but the fellow who did it is super reasonable and does very accurate work, I’ve checked it against my plate and one other.

I bought a long straight edge for posterity but careful work with levels makes it unnecessary.

[Graham Haydon]

I'm not sure this will help much, but I've never used a straight edge, machinist or otherwise to set a jointer. I've only had to set up two. A large Danckaert jointer with loose HSS 400mm knives. More recently it's been an SCM FS 520 with TERSA knives to comply with regulations in the UK. On the Danckaert I would use a piece of hardwood with two pencil lines set 6mm apart. The out feed table would be set so when the block was rotated it would throw the block 6mm and I would adjust accordingly. With TERSA they go in the same spot each time. I always do test pieces after set up and it all just seems to work.

[Patrick Walsh]

Right now I’m not concerned myself with a jointer. Although this thread is about that. I’m more speaking generally it excluding jointers.

I have seen machine repair guys do as you say honestly to varying degrees of success. Sadly even some service techs have a “good enough for wood” attitude. Totally not except I left to me when I’m paying you and disgraceful to say so much to a client if your a service tech. Kinda self admittance to being incompetent and a jestful way to let yourself off the hook. But I have seen your method work so you know it’s what they say about the arrow. I do t dare use the whole analogy..



I'm not sure this will help much, but I've never used a straight edge, machinist or otherwise to set a jointer. I've only had to set up two. A large Danckaert jointer with loose HSS 400mm knives. More recently it's been an SCM FS 520 with TERSA knives to comply with regulations in the UK. On the Danckaert I would use a piece of hardwood with two pencil lines set 6mm apart. The out feed table would be set so when the block was rotated it would throw the block 6mm and I would adjust accordingly. With TERSA they go in the same spot each time. I always do test pieces after set up and it all just seems to work.

[Darcy Warner]

Right now I’m not concerned myself with a jointer. Although this thread is about that. I’m more speaking generally it excluding jointers.

I have seen machine repair guys do as you say honestly to varying degrees of success. Sadly even some service techs have a “good enough for wood” attitude. Totally not except I left to me when I’m paying you and disgraceful to say so much to a client if your a service tech. Kinda self admittance to being incompetent and a jestful way to let yourself off the hook. But I have seen your method work so you know it’s what they say about the arrow. I do t dare use the whole analogy..

I had a little contest with a former machinist turned woodworker. Needless to say, I was at least twice as fast with my stick and at least if not more consistent than he was with his gauges and dials.

He has since converted.

This was a 24" jointer. Yates American

[Robert Hazelwood]

Using a stick to set the knives can be very accurate, but what I found irritating is that you just have to guess at how far to adjust the knives. If you are trying to get the stick to move 1/8" and it moves 3/16", how much do you need to lower the knife? Pretty much you just lower it "a tiny bit" and then check again. With a dial indicator I can see the knife is 0.004" high and then tap it down while watching the dial move until it is a bit below zero, tighten the gib screw and watch the dial go back up, hopefully to zero. No guessing...well except for how far the knife will rise when the gib is tightened, but I can see immediately if I have undershot or overshot.

I can see for a Tersa head where the stick method would be ok since you should only have to set the table to one knife. My jointer has a 4 knife head and my first attempt to set the knives was with the stick method...never again. I made a wooden version of the oneway gauge and the process is not too bad now, about 30 minutes.

[Patrick Walsh]

Darcy,

Me and my typos, autocorrect, typing to fast and well not knowing how to spell or form a sentence.

My intention was to communicate I have seen a number of machinery service techs not machinist use just a stick to setup a jointer relying on depth of that first cut to set the outfeed height then largely sound and using that same stick if indeed the machine can produce a flat board at least place along into width.

But maybe you understood me perfectly and were just elaborating.

I would think one would get very good at setting up machines doing what you do. Or maybe not I guess, but if you cared the slightest and were ever held to the fire by clients I bet one would get very very good at setting up machinery pretty quick. It seems like rocket science to the uninitiated but is largely just common sense.


I had a little contest with a former machinist turned woodworker. Needless to say, I was at least twice as fast with my stick and at least if not more consistent than he was with his gauges and dials.

He has since converted.

This was a 24" jointer. Yates American

[Tom M King]

I set straight jointer knives with a strip of wood, and never measure how far it moves a stick. Once they're all set to brush the bottom of the stick, by feel, a test piece is run, and the outfeed table adjusted if needed. Takes about 20 seconds per knife.

The strip of hard wood (Boxwood lately) pushes the knife down until it will barely brush the bottom of the strip of wood while rocking the head back and forth with a wrench on one of the middle gib screws. If the tail end of the wood strip stays on the outfeed table, you can't push the knife down too far. The trick is being able to tighten the end gib screws enough to hold the knife in place, but still allows you to move the knife. It's not as hard as it sounds, and works for other such tools as handheld power planers. Once the knife is felt brushing the same on both ends, the screw that the wrench is on tightens that one, and then the others.

[Allan Speers]

Take one or two blocks of wood and put a slot in them that's a hair wider than the thickness of the straight edge and a hair deeper than the height. Slip it/them over the top of the straight edge as you have it on the surface you're testing. It/they will hold the straight edge up without binding it so your hands are freed to do what needs done.


Great idea !

[jack duren]

I had a little contest with a former machinist turned woodworker. Needless to say, I was at least twice as fast with my stick and at least if not more consistent than he was with his gauges and dials.

He has since converted.

This was a 24" jointer. Yates American

Agree... not that technical....

[jack duren]

They bought a new Oliver at work. Guys kept complaining about it being slow on the out feed like it was hitting or dragging something. Looked at it and with those gauges he had the out feed just high enough to cause a problem. Took a board and reset it. Worked fine and no complaints..

[Brian Holcombe]

Straightedge arrived from Starrett with a big curve to it. I will see if they will accept a return, I can't imagine reliable results coming from this.

Was mounted to a piece of wood for shipping and wrapped in cardboard.

[Doug Dawson]

Straightedge arrived from Starrett with a big curve to it. I will see if they will accept a return, I can't imagine reliable results coming from this.

Was mounted to a piece of wood for shipping and wrapped in cardboard.

Was this shipped direct from Starrett, or somebody else?

In purchasing such things from amazon, you have the option of clicking "this is a gift", which forces them to double-box it.

[Brian Holcombe]

Right from Starrett, the shipper wasn’t the issue IMO.

[Gustav Gabor]

That's concerning that Starrett would let something like that past quality control, after all, accuracy is what the company is built on.

Out of curiosity, how much of a curve? Over what span?

I would hope that they will ship you another (checked for flatness and straightness) at no expense to you, as well as paying for return shipping on the curved one.

I have a number of Starrett measuring instruments and straight edges, and thankfully haven't had an experience quite like this with them yet.
Having said that, back in 1982 -84 when I was a student at Leeds Design Workshops in Easthampton Massachusetts, I did have to try quite a few Starrett combination squares before I found one that was actually accurate.
Still have it today, and amazingly after 37+ years, it's still bang on.

[Patrick Walsh]

I have a 12” sterrett combo square I received as a gift at least five years ago. Brand new out of the box it was out like at least a 32nd..

Wish I had done something about it as it’s relegated to stuff that’s not important.

[Brian Holcombe]

That's concerning that Starrett would let something like that past quality control, after all, accuracy is what the company is built on.

Out of curiosity, how much of a curve? Over what span?

I would hope that they will ship you another (checked for flatness and straightness) at no expense to you, as well as paying for return shipping on the curved one.

I have a number of Starrett measuring instruments and straight edges, and thankfully haven't had an experience quite like this with them yet.
Having said that, back in 1982 -84 when I was a student at Leeds Design Workshops in Easthampton Massachusetts, I did have to try quite a few Starrett combination squares before I found one that was actually accurate.
Still have it today, and amazingly after 37+ years, it's still bang on.

They were great in that regard, offered to inspect one and send it but I decided simply to return. I’m inclined to move to a longer cast iron straight edge of to begin learning about autocollimator’s. At certain lengths it becomes clear that there are alternatives to a straight edge that should be considered.

This is not for woodworking, per say, but just to pursue interest in this area.

[Gustav Gabor]

Wow.... 1/32" out is really bad! That's as bad as a regular (cheap) carpenters square.....
Are you sure there wasn't some crap in the slot ,or somewhere, that could be throwing things off?

If memory serves me, the bad ones I checked out back in the day were only out of square approximately .002" - .003" over 12", but that was unacceptable as far as I was concerned.


I have a 12” sterrett combo square I received as a gift at least five years ago. Brand new out of the box it was out like at least a 32nd..

Wish I had done something about it as it’s relegated to stuff that’s not important.

[Greg Funk]

I have a 12” sterrett combo square I received as a gift at least five years ago. Brand new out of the box it was out like at least a 32nd..

Wish I had done something about it as it’s relegated to stuff that’s not important.They’re easy to adjust with a fine file.

[Joe Calhoon]

After having a marginal 30” straight edge for years I bought a 4’ SPI brand straight edge. I think it is middle of the road as far as machinist tools but seems plenty good enough for what I do. I use it with a feeler gauge to check sliding tables for coplaner, shaper and profiler fences and many more tasks.
Interesting to learn about machinist levels here.
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[peter gagliardi]

Brian, what size was the straightedge you ordered? I have gotten all of mine thru either MSC or McMaster Carr.
I have a couple 18", a 36" and a 72". The 18's I believe came in a padded box, the longer 2 were packed with a wood frame, and probably cardboard or heavy paper- don't remember, but I know it was plenty sturdy.

[Brian Holcombe]

Peter, this was a 6’ straight edge. The packaging was fine, and undamaged. I think I will go to a cast iron straight edge, I have a camelback 24” now and steel 12”, for longer I think that a cast iron with parallel sides would be good.

[Patrick Walsh]

You know I have been wanting/needing a good edge for a long time. I have had myself convinced ever since buying my “you know who” combo machine that I needed a edge the full length of the machine.

Honestly and regardless of the various approaches to setting up a jointer a long straight edge is the way I feel comfortable doing the work. But you know that combo is working fine now so I really no longer need that Uber long edge. My Martin jointer I don’t suspect to ever fall out.

Regardless I do have the slider to finish setting up and I do have new “to me” shaper probably on the way in the next few weeks. The. I have a new job with the expectation I maintain the machinery.

Anyway seeing Joe using the SPI made me consider that if it’s good enough for Joe it’s probably good enough for me. When not using a tool like this to do the initial setup of a machine I use a edge much as joe mostly on the shaper and and jointer to set fences and knives. A 72-96 edge seems great for say setting up the jointer and or the initial setup of my slider but beyond that just handling the thing is asking to take it out of tolerance.

Anyway I’m thinking starting with a SPI or Sub tool edge vrs a Starrett seems to make good sense and maybe 48-60” vrs 72-96. If I find it not accurate enough and or to small long term I can always count on the edge for the general machine setup I currently use a cheap empire aluminum edge for that has worked just fine. For me it’s mostly setting up the shaper.

I always like to buy the best. This may be a case where that approach is or is not well served seeing Brian’s experience above. I’m finding the $$$ drain of this whole thing to be a bit never ending and exhausting at this point. Maybe I can cut back in wee areas like this.




Peter, this was a 6’ straight edge. The packaging was fine, and undamaged. I think I will go to a cast iron straight edge, I have a camelback 24” now and steel 12”, for longer I think that a cast iron with parallel sides would be good.

[peter gagliardi]

In my experience, SPI does make excellent quality tools. And usually at a good price point.

Brian, I have wanted a 6' camelback straightedge for years.
2 problems-
1. They are big, and they look HEAVY. Might need a couple guys, or a lift to place the tool.
2. They are, generally expensive. For a very limited use item, I can find other ways to skin the cat, and invest that money in something that provides more return on the investment.
I have only once seen one for sale used, even then, $$$

[Brian Holcombe]

I missed a great camelback at a bargain last year, bought the 24” from the same person.

Ceramic is a nice choice, light and can be made super accurate but they’re painfully expensive. I would need a bit of temporary insanity to buy one.

[Brian Holcombe]

Camelbacks of that size (6’) need an overhead lift. This stuff creates a spiraling effect. Before you know it, you’re a metrology shop :o

[Darcy Warner]

Camelbacks of that size (6’) need an overhead lift. This stuff creates a spiraling effect. Before you know it, you’re a metrology shop :o

I owned a 6 footer, not practical. 4 foot is more than enough for anyone who is not running a grinding shop.

[Doug Dawson]

Right from Starrett, the shipper wasn’t the issue IMO.

If the edge had been traceable they would have caught that. It's disturbing that this got by QC. I would have tried again, but I can understand the desire not to.

[Brian Holcombe]

A friend of mine sent me a link this morning, The fellow who scraped my angle plates and camelback put up a 2.5” square x 41” master box parallel. I decided to take him up on it, fellows name is Daryl Smith, this is Daryl’s shop;


https://youtu.be/pE2eTmIQp0A

[Brian Holcombe]

If the edge had been traceable they would have caught that. It's disturbing that this got by QC. I would have tried again, but I can understand the desire not to.

Starrett has been really perfect about it, their customer service is top notch. The experience gave me a chance to rethink my needs.

[Mel Fulks]

I don't really need a straight edge much. About 30 years ago I made 3 foot, 5 foot, and 7'10" ( needed to keep it hanging
in room with 8' ceiling. Used tempered Masonite with white Formica glued on both sides with PRG. Really only needed the 7'10 but I
made the other two part of the accuracy process. Final accuracy checks were done edge to edge with pieces of narrow
news print between finished edges ,etc. I let the rough pieces hanging for weeks before starting any real work.

[Jacob Reverb]

I have a 12” sterrett combo square I received as a gift at least five years ago. Brand new out of the box it was out like at least a 32nd..

Wish I had done something about it as it’s relegated to stuff that’s not important.

Wow, I'd send that puppy back up to Athol. I suspect they'd send you a new one and pick up shipping both ways to make that right (and to remove something so screwed up with their name on it from being out in the wild).

I bought a 12" blade for a Starrett combo square from Amazon that was all scarred up when I got it. They sent me a new one and told me to keep the defective one, but it made me wonder whether Amazon was selling counterfeits (as they reportedly do with other products, Birkenstocks for one)...

[Brian Holcombe]

Problem solved:

423444423445423446423447

41” x 2.5” x 2.5”

[Pat Barry]

Up to 8 pages on this topic? Must be cabin fever

[johnny means]

Up to 8 pages on this topic? Must be cabin fever

I'm always surprised at what topics create the most conversation.

[Prashun Patel]

The simplest concepts are the deepest: Straight, sharp

[Patrick Walsh]

My guess is the guy you linked to in the video hand scrapped and or scraped that with whatever machine he mentioned?

I’m just gonna go Joes route with the 48” SPI. I might also get a 96 for the jointer as I gotta tend to the jointer at work as it’s cutting a convex joint.

Good enough for me and my work.

[Thomas McCurnin]

Tile stores for pros sell aluminum straight edges that are within a 64th over 8 feet. Good enough for me.

[Patrick Walsh]

Yikes!


Not for me and I suspect not Brian..

Id just never trust aluminum. So easy to Knick or ding. Plus a 64th is a mile setting up a machine..




Tile stores for pros sell aluminum straight edges that are within a 64th over 8 feet. Good enough for me.

[peter gagliardi]

Nice Brian!
Outfeed table is too high Patrick.

[johnny means]

Yikes!


Not for me and I suspect not Brian..

Id just never trust aluminum. So easy to Knick or ding. Plus a 64th is a mile setting up a machine..

Not if the goal is to actually work wood.

[Patrick Walsh]

I work wood all day everyday as I’m sure many do around here.

A 64th setting up a jointer is a problem. At least for me it is.

I’m a picky guy what can I say.


Not if the goal is to actually work wood.

[Patrick Walsh]

I’m not sure that’s the case Peter but you may be right.

I put a straight edge on it and the infeed table is toeing down at the cutterhead.

I suspect that is the problem. But you know I have only screws with a jointer a few times now so for all I know you are right.

What do you think with the provided info?


Nice Brian!
Outfeed table is too high Patrick.

[Mel Fulks]

Agree with Patrick. Out feed table two thousandths high will will make the material "climb". Small knife nick will make
make material climb. Out feed table too low by several thousandths will make joints that are open at board ends.

[Brian Holcombe]

My guess is the guy you linked to in the video hand scrapped and or scraped that with whatever machine he mentioned?

I’m just gonna go Joes route with the 48” SPI. I might also get a 96 for the jointer as I gotta tend to the jointer at work as it’s cutting a convex joint.

Good enough for me and my work.

The stated tolerances on SPI's straight edges is very good for a ground straight edge. Something like .001" over the length and .002" parallelism.

This bar I received is from Daryl, he scrapes with a Biax which is a handheld power scraper.




Not if the goal is to actually work wood.

Depends on what you're after. My work calls for tight joinery fit-ups. I noticed at some point that a considerable amount of my time was spent fettling joinery. So much so that I could not produce a reliable time frame for the effort required for any given job. A few years into this precision pursuit and now the amount of fettling required for 99% of the joinery I cut is zero.

So compared to literally weeks a year of fettling, a few hours tuning a jointer at a leisurely pace in the evenings with high precision equipment is time well spent.

I often feel that expending time in this fashion has been worth it.

Specific to the jointer, it just makes every other aspect of the work easy so a well tuned jointer is paramount to precision in the shop.

Finally, I enjoy it. It makes me feel good to have things 'add up' in my mind. A flat surfaces agreeing with one another, stock square to fences and cutting square and tight shoulders, etc.

[Bradley Gray]

On the other end of the scale from a hand scraped masterpiece, I have had good results setting up my old 9' long 16" jointer with a 10' length of steel drip edge - I clamp it to the jointer's fence to keep it vertical.

Doesn't look as cool hanging on the wall but I get perfect glue joints.

[peter gagliardi]

Outfeed table is always the first culprit.
Infeed tables are very rarely like that unless someone "fixed" it that way.
I only use a straightedge to see if tables are flat with no twist.
I use the actual cutting results to adjust the jointer almost always.

[Patrick Walsh]

Peter,

I was just saying the same thing to Brian.

As far as blade wear adjustments go I just adjust using a board.

On my Martin the infeed can be adjusted for concave or context cut.

On my Felder even the outfeed adjustment is a bear and with insert knives it almost never needs adjusting thank god. What a pos....

As for general setup I personally like a strait edge the length of the machine and one way gauge and a dial indicator attached to long straight edge.

That’s just me. It was one of the Felder guys whom document jointer setup that I learnt from. It could be ass backward or overkill but it’s what I know and what has worked.

The machine at work had the cutterhead swapped for a Byrd. My guess is someone messed up the infeed when doing that work a it is going down like a lot. At least what I call a lot. Easily a 32nd or so..



Outfeed table is always the first culprit.
Infeed tables are very rarely like that unless someone "fixed" it that way.
I only use a straightedge to see if tables are flat with no twist.
I use the actual cutting results to adjust the jointer almost always.

[Darcy Warner]

I was trying to set my 14X54 Hendey up today, not having much luck with my straight edge.....realized why...423557

[Patrick Walsh]

You say tomato I say tamatoh.

http://www.vetstreet.com/our-pet-experts/horsey-does-the-hokey-pokey