Wood Allergies - treatment options

[mark mcfarlane]

A recent thread on dust collectors prompted me to share a recent medical experience.

Some history: I retired 3 years ago and moved to a forested area north of Houston and built a dedicated woodshop. I installed a 5HP Oneida DC, an over head Powermartic PM1200 air filter and a second Powermatic PM1250 Micro Dust Air Filtration System to be nice to my lungs and sinuses. I wanted this hobby to last 30 years, when my savings run out.

The first year of retirement I had more severe seasonal allergies than I had when I lived in Houston in the 80s and 90s, but I previously lived further south 'below the tree line', i.e. where the naturally forested region begins away from the coast. By the third year of retirement and woodworking my nasal congestion become permanent, not seasonal. Steroid shots helped for about a month.

I cannot say if the change in my allergies was due to

age,
living in essentially a forest, or
frequently cutting and sanding wood.


I went to visit a couple of ENT specialists. The first recommended allergy shots. He determined I was allergic to Oak trees among a couple dozen other things. White oak is my primary wood to work, but I don't know if pollen and sawdust produce similar reactions. The intensive allergy shot regimen doesn't fit my travel lifestyle. The second ENT specialist, a surgeon, recommended surgery. No surprise there. I had the surgery which consisted of two parts: deviated septum correction (with a hammer and a chisel) and turbinate reduction. The turbinates are structures in your sinus that can swell up, causing congestion. The reduction technique used on me was essentially sticking a pair of bent needle nose pliers up my nose and crushing the turbinates. Both surgeries were done under local anesthesia. The plier thing hurt.

Its been 3 weeks since the surgery and I can now breath better than I can ever remember. It is like a miracle. I am hopeful this will have some long term effect, we'll see when the Spring allergens bloom.

One thing I started doing post surgery is twice daily nasal rinses using a NeilMed Sinus Rinse kit (https://www.amazon.com/NeilMed-100-Sinus-Rinse-Complete/dp/B000RDZFZ0/ref=sr_1_4?gclid=CjwKCAiA__HvBRACEiwAbViuU4PR2Gjsy tkB7_kedZl7tS04bwDLdd5IgO8Ot-yM13YF1kseb0rXpRoCJlYQAvD_BwE&hvadid=153717597041&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9027698&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=b&hvrand=9225082649833717096&hvtargid=kwd-152039199&hydadcr=21880_9350810&keywords=neilmed+sinus+rinse+kit&qid=1576886815&sr=8-4). For those of you with sinus allergies or concerned about wood dust, this might be a good therapy. I am now doing a sinus rinse when I leave the shop. Good stuff here. Cheap.

Anyway, that's my story which I thought I should share.

If anyone else needs a turbinate 'crush reduction', I have some Klein pliers that will do the trick.

If someone is reading this post in 2021, post a comment and ask me how I am doing. It will be interesting to see how long this turbinate crush and regular sinus rinses lasts, but today I am a very happy woodworker.

[Andrew Hughes]

For me any tropical or exotic wood will wreck my day. Bubinga, lacewood,Cocobolo any Rosewood.
Ive also found that I’m sensitive to walnut dust.
The good thing is I don’t sand. I also have a good dust collection system. Penn state cyclone all my machines are set up to cut domestic woods.
My shop is under the canopy of a live oak tree thank god I’m not allergic to it’s pollen.

Good Luck Mark

[Myles Standridge SR]

I have severe allergy that no test has been able to figure out what I'm allergic to, I had sinus surgery and it made it worse, the allergens had more access! I recently bought this dust mask, Trend STEALTH/SM Stealth Air Half Mask, APF10. It's small and seems to be working decent for woodworking.

[Jerry Bruette]

I have the same sinus rinse kit and it works better than a Netty Pot. Just be gentle with it a coworker blew out his ear drum by squeezing too hard on the bottle.

[Tom M King]

Red woods give me asthma symptoms. Nothing else bothers me a bit. I just don't do anything with Mahogany, Redwood, or Red Cedar, or at least, not any more. Cherry doesn't bother me. I also do almost no sanding of wood, and DC's move a Lot of air.

[Jim Tobias]

Mark,
Your story sounds like a remake of my own personal sinus history. Same issues, same surgeries. I also did go through the allergy shot routine for 5 years. They told me that nay immunity that was going to build up will have done so in 5 years.
I also used the NeilMed Sinus rinse unit for a few years until I found a Battery powered Sinus irrigator. It really flushes out any congestion. there are several brands.

Jim

[Erik Loza]

Mark, I have “non-allergic rhinitis”, which isn’t an allergy but walks and talks like one. I got home from a day of visiting shops last week and was absolutely miserable from all the shop dust. The neti pot is my savior. At least 1X day and sometimes, 2X. For folks out there who find it weird, just give it a shot. A lot of complaints I think are from folks using it incorrectly: Too much pressure, head not tipped to correct angle, etc. We have a ceramic one for home use and I take the Neil Sinus plastic one for travel.

Erik

[Mark Gibney]

Mark, thanks for posting this. Dust may be the worst thing about woodworking.
I'm hoping for a Neilmed Rinse kit in my stocking!

[mark mcfarlane]

Mark,
Your story sounds like a remake of my own personal sinus history. Same issues, same surgeries. I also did go through the allergy shot routine for 5 years. They told me that nay immunity that was going to build up will have done so in 5 years.
I also used the NeilMed Sinus rinse unit for a few years until I found a Battery powered Sinus irrigator. It really flushes out any congestion. there are several brands.

Jim

Jim, how much improvement did your congestion show after 5 years of shots? I've heard something like a 70-80% success rate, and I know of a few people like my wife who quit taking the shots after a year or so.

Glad to hear other people are doing rinses, it actually feels good to me after a day in the shop.

[mark mcfarlane]

I have the same sinus rinse kit and it works better than a Netty Pot. Just be gentle with it a coworker blew out his ear drum by squeezing too hard on the bottle.

Thanks for the tip Jerry, I do occasionally go a little hard. Particularly the second week after surgery (when I started the rinse therapy) when a lot of junk/blood was coming out.

[Jim Tobias]

Jim, how much improvement did your congestion show after 5 years of shots? I've heard something like a 70-80% success rate, and I know of a few people like my wife who quit taking the shots after a year or so.

Glad to hear other people are doing rinses, it actually feels good to me after a day in the shop.

Mark,
I remember it definitely improved(maybe 60/70%). Over 5 years it was very gradual. My ENT told me that after 5 years it is very unlikely that any more resistance/immunity will be built up so no need to continue. I, in no way feel like I am CURED from sinus issues.....but I feel like it is very controllable at this point in my life.
I never go in the shop and do any work without a mask(3M or forced air depending on activity). The nightly sinus irrigation before shower is a big help. Also, several years back we renovated our master bath and put in steam in our shower. About twice a week, I turn on the steam and that really loosens up any crud that the sinus rinse didn't get.

[mark mcfarlane]

Mark,
I remember it definitely improved(maybe 60/70%). Over 5 years it was very gradual. My ENT told me that after 5 years it is very unlikely that any more resistance/immunity will be built up so no need to continue. I, in no way feel like I am CURED from sinus issues.....but I feel like it is very controllable at this point in my life.
I never go in the shop and do any work without a mask(3M or forced air depending on activity). The nightly sinus irrigation before shower is a big help. Also, several years back we renovated our master bath and put in steam in our shower. About twice a week, I turn on the steam and that really loosens up any crud that the sinus rinse didn't get.

Thanks Jim for sharing. After we get through the next big pollen dump in Spring (our driveway, cars, everything turns green-yellow), we'll see how I feel. Shots may still be in the future. Cheers.

[John K Jordan]

I have severe allergy that no test has been able to figure out what I'm allergic to, SUCKS. I had sinus surgery and it made it worse, the allergens had more access! I recently bought this dust mask, Trend STEALTH/SM Stealth Air Half Mask, APF10. It's small and seems to be working decent for woodworking.

Myles,

One test for wood dust allergy is to put some sawdust from suspected species on the sensitive skin of your under-forearm and cover with a bandaid and wait a day or so. Might dampen the skin first.

I first noticed a mild allergy to eastern red cedar when I got some sawdust under a watch band which I didn't take off right away. Before nighttime I had a rash under the watch and band.
I can still work with cedar but use the DC and a respirator and wash exposed skin with soap and water afterwards.

But working with cocobolo unprotected immediately makes my lips itchy! Too bad I love cocobolo and have a lot. A full face respirator and a shower and change of clothes afterwards keeps the gremlins away - zero symptoms so far.

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

I can't do bubinga...found that out fast a number of years ago when I was working a turned and carved platter. I'm sad about that because I really like the look of the stuff, but even with substantially more protection than I normally use, I seem to be very sensitive.

[David Utterback]

I acquired asthma last March at 67 years of age. It was controlled by mid summer so I stopped taking the medicines. I did little shop work until this fall. Recently, I cut some Baltic Birch on the band saw to make a fixture for steam bending a cherry chair slat. I have had a niggling cough since a mild cold in early October which became worse after the birch dust exposures.

Finally went to see a doctor yesterday and he said I should start the asthma meds again. They take a couple of weeks to work well. I may need to stay on them through the Spring bloom.

There is a whole stack of the birch plywood in my basement and it would be a shame not to be able to use it. Not going to try until my cough goes away. I will try what John J suggested to see if it is an allergy or just simple irritation. The sinus washes several have described will be tried as well. Sounds a little gross, though.

The first time I used black walnut for a project, it seemed to slightly irritate my throat and eyes. I have since used it without any problem. The first batch had been stored in a barn for many years which might be the reason I reacted to it. I spent many summer months putting up hay and the barn dust may have primed my system.

Mark, thank you for posting this message. We can be thankful that medicine has progressed to keep us at our work and hobbies. Most remedies are less invasive than sticking pliers up our noses.:eek: I hope your recovery continues.

[Andrew Hughes]

I’ve tried the Neilpot nose rinse. And it gave me a terrible sinus infection.
I don’t have the drum sander anymore so less dust is better for me.

[John K Jordan]

I’ve tried the Neilpot nose rinse. And it gave me a terrible sinus infection.
I don’t have the drum sander anymore so less dust is better for me.

The oscillating drum sander is my worst machine. I move it outside on the shop porch.
I have a Performax 22/44 drum sander but it seems the DC does a very good job with the stock hood and a 4" flex duct. (with the 5hp ClearVue cyclone)

The best thing for reducing dust is when I quit power sanding bowls and platters - that made horrible clouds of dust.

I've had asthma since a teenager with a list of allergies as long as my arm. I'll do whatever it takes - I kind of like breathing! :)

JKJ

[Dylan Wyatt]

Your story is very similar to mine, just a different time period in life. I started allergy shots when I was 15. Did the shots, one shot in each arm every week for 5 years. In the middle of that time, I had the deviated septum surgery. I worked for a landscaper at the time and before I had the surgery, I had that feeling right before you sneeze all of the time. It was absolutely miserable and my nose burnt all of the time and I was constantly wheezing. The surgery was rough, the worst part was when they pulled the stents out of my nose a week after the surgery. I haven't been on the shots for several years and my allergies are much better than they used to be, but not perfect. I take Allegra every day and definitely know if I don't take it.

When woodworking, I wear a normal respirator if doing sanding and when I have to work with walnut, I suffer if I don't wear the respirator. Unfortunately it is a fact of life and I wouldn't give up woodworking for anything so I just put on the respirator.

[mark mcfarlane]

I’ve tried the Neilpot nose rinse. And it gave me a terrible sinus infection.
I don’t have the drum sander anymore so less dust is better for me.

Andrew, I'm curious if you sterilized the Neilpot before use, and used distilled water? Distilled water is recommended to prevent introducing anything from the city water supply, and is what I use.

[Andrew Hughes]

I did use water from the faucet. It was some years ago but I’m pretty consistent about cleaning so probably did clean the pot container.

[mark mcfarlane]

I did use water from the faucet. It was some years ago but I’m pretty consistent about cleaning so probably did clean the pot container.

FWIW, the instructions with my NeilMed kit say to only use distilled water. I suspect that the bacteria and minerals in tap water are the primary reasons to use distilled water. If you have ever studied your own local water report they can be a bit scary. Also looking at violations and fines assessed to your water district can be revealing/scarry.

[Mark Daily]

For those with wood allergies, it might be worth investing in a particle meter like the Dylos to see how well your dust collection system is really working. You may be surprised to see your system isn’t working as well as you thought. (Or it might be better!)

[Tom M King]

If I had an allergy to all wood dust, like I do to red woods, I'd be doing something other than woodworking. It's fun building with metal too.

[John K Jordan]

For those with wood allergies, it might be worth investing in a particle meter like the Dylos to see how well your dust collection system is really working. You may be surprised to see your system isn’t working as well as you thought. (Or it might be better!)

I agree. I bought a Dylos Pro in 2012. I notice the price is exactly the same today as it was in 2012: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004AWEG0Y

JKJ

[Jeff Clode]

I agree. I bought a Dylos Pro in 2012. I notice the price is exactly the same today as it was in 2012: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004AWEG0Y

JKJ

Agree totally with the recommendations re the Dylos. I purchased one a year ago and it has, I think, made me a much wiser woodworker and changed my shop working habits
Jeff

[Jim Tobias]

For those with wood allergies, it might be worth investing in a particle meter like the Dylos to see how well your dust collection system is really working. You may be surprised to see your system isn’t working as well as you thought. (Or it might be better!)

Yes, I,ve had the Dylos meter for several years and use it to test shop air purity. The air in my shop is cleaner than the air in my home! Oneida whole shop dust collection and 1 JDS air cleaner and 3 housetype Alen air cleaners. These all run continuously ....I change out a pre-pre filter every 3-4 weeks.
It never gets everything....nature of the activity. But it gets a lot. All of this and respirators and forced air systems so I can enjoy the hobby I choose.
Jim

[Tom Bussey]

I am allergic to bolivian rosewood, which is not a rosewood at all but a very good look a like. The doctor finally believed me when my eyes swelled shut after turning it. I do have sinus problems here in Iowa especially in the fall. I use 1 tsp of salt, 1/2 tsp of backing soda. Mix in a half class of warm water. fill a baby syringe, lean head back slightly and squirt up each nostril a couple of times . It helps if you breath in at the same time. repeat until the sinuses fill clear or in my case you can't stand it anymore. It is not fun the first time but the relief you get makes it much easier after that. I use as needed.

Believe it or know this recipe cane from a Eye Nose and Throat doctor.

[John K Jordan]

I am allergic to bolivian rosewood...

I somehow acquired a few pieces of wood labeled Borneo Rosewood. I found out on my first bandsaw cut how evil the stuff is. A look at the Wood Database showed it more commonly called Rengas and explained the problem:

"Allergies/Toxicity: The sap of Rengas is reported to be strongly irritating to the skin, causing blisters, sores, and reactions similar to poison ivy, as well as fever and constitutional effects in some individuals."

and this:

"It has been reported that Rengas is an excellent and handsome wood for cabinetry and other projects, but that the tree is so highly irritating among foresters and end-users, that it has fallen out of favor. The sap contains urushiol (the same allergen found in Poison Ivy), and can still be irritating to some sensitized individuals even after the wood has been dried, and sap can also seep through some wood finishes to the surface of the wood."

I don't know why I saved what I have instead of burning it. Maybe to carve a spoon or toothpicks or make a ring for someone I don't like. (JK!)

JKJ

[Delwyn Ching]

For me it's allergies to mango, acacia (Koa), mesquite (kiawe) and monkey pod. I took shots for over 20 years and the doctor stopped it saying it's not going to help anymore. I don't get attacks anymore and take 1 zyrtec in the morning every day which helps.

[Michael A. Tyree]

At age 76 I stay on self-injected allergy serum. I have always been an active, healthy guy, and was an athlete up into college and afterwards in one sport. I first went to an allergy doc at age ~ 57 with a stuffy head complaint. They did the regular stick pin tests and I did shots with that doc for 2 years with some improvement. At a routine colon scope, age ~ 69, the prep nurse told me I had low oxygen and might want to see a pulmonologist. I did and had the tests in chamber, the whole bit and ended up at a new allergy doc and more tests. I found it interesting that many of the things my 1st doc found me allergic to were not found the next time.
Afgter a lifetime of making wood dust, doing auto body work as a sideline, much agricultural dust!!!-the worst was dust from harvest times and I do remember alfalfa dust in the heat of summer as especially bad as we stored bales for feed mixes and very dusty to stack them. Industry wise I worked in the largest tire plant in the world as a mechanic/millwright and spent long enough in the "official"- carbon black area to become eligible for Black Lung benefits, which I don't have BTW.
I was the superintendent of a juvenile treatment program for ~ 4 years and went through a recommended lung screening process after spending several months around a juvenile delinquent who had tuberculosis. I was found clear of any problems.
I now use a netti pot after any dust exposure shop or outside work like sawmill or bush hogging, mowing, etc..
I use flonase & azelastine nasal sprays most days and stay on Claritin year round which in combo help a bunch. My oxygen has been normal since I began with the 2nd allergy doc about 7 yrs back. My allergy doc says dues to age the shots help my body stay in the game as my immune system weakens over time.
Self injecting means I keep an ept-pen around but saves me exposure & travel to a local clinic where you have to sit after the shot for a reaction and much easier done at home. Remember the $400 or $600 epi pens in the news? I have never paid more than ~$30 for mine as they are generic-yet another e.g. of the news media creating miss-information!
I spent much effort to be allowed to self inject as I'm on KY Teacher Retirement Medicare Supplemental and seems my age told them I wasn't responsible enough to do the shots? Who knows?, but after like 12-15 phone calls I do the shots at home! They mail the serum vials to my home.

[Jim Becker]

I don't know why I saved what I have instead of burning it. Maybe to carve a spoon or toothpicks or make a ring for someone I don't like. (JK!)


Given that it has the same irritant as poison ivy...burning wouldn't be a good idea. :) Bury it or something. Maybe the goats will eat it. :) :D

[Andrew Hughes]

John that wood reminds me of Chechen. I bought some smalls from Rockler to turn I didn’t get very far till the stuff hit me. I don’t use the word hit lightly
Very poisonous for me at least.

[John K Jordan]

Given that it has the same irritant as poison ivy...burning wouldn't be a good idea. :) Bury it or something. Maybe the goats will eat it. :) :D

I'll send it to you. Maybe it will keep mites out of Dr Professor's bee hives.

I no longer have goats but llamas and alpacas love to eat poison ivy leaves and vines. When I do school programs and talk about what llamas eat the kids are shocked when I tell them that.

Fortunately, burning or even touching poison ivy doesn't seem to bother me as much as some people. My sister's eyes would swell up if she even stood on the edge of a field containing poison ivy if the wind was blowing the wrong way. If I wash my hands within a reasonable time after handling poison ivy leaves or vines I'm not affected. I USED to be very susceptible when younger. Maybe I've become desensitized through mild contact - my sister had to take desensitization pills for a long time. Each little pill had a 3-leaf imprint on one side!

As an aside, I can't believe how many people in this area think virginia creeper is poison oak and are terrified by it - nearly everyone! People gasp and nearly faint when I rub virgina creeper leaves on my face and chew on a leaf (for educational purposes). I'm sure they expected to see a ambulance at my place the next day or read about my stupidity on Facebook.

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

Please don't send it here, John...Professor Dr. SWMBO is super allergic/sensitive to poison ivy! It's literally the only thing I will ever put evil chemicals on because of that. Oh, we have a ton of Virginia Creeper here...it competes with the poison ivy. :) :D

[John K Jordan]

Please don't send it here, John...Professor Dr. SWMBO is super allergic/sensitive to poison ivy! It's literally the only thing I will ever put evil chemicals on because of that. Oh, we have a ton of Virginia Creeper here...it competes with the poison ivy. :) :D

I'll send llamas instead. They will flat clean out every leaf and twig of poison ivy. It must be like candy to them.

I've been cutting vines off the trees since I moved here in 2003. I found a few vines in about 4" in diameter. Some dead pine trees had so many horizontal poison ivy "branches" all the way up that at first glance the trees look alive and healthy.

Now with the track hoe I grab such vines (both poison ivy and wild grape) and pull them up by the roots for the burn pit.

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

Some of the poison ivy here on our property has "trunks" that are 5+" in diameter up a host tree. I can only imagine how old those plants are! I keep the stuff that routinely sprouts up in our landscaping at bay, but in the wooded areas...not a battle that can be won. Apparently, our honeybees enjoy it a bit. :) And the honey doesn't suffer for it, either.

[John K Jordan]

... Apparently, our honeybees enjoy it a bit. :) And the honey doesn't suffer for it, either.

When people ask me what kind of honey I have I tell them it's mostly ragweed and poison ivy. They laugh, but it's rare heekeeper who knows exactly what nectar and pollen their bees are bringing in. I think most of them who label there honey with a flower type just make up something.

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

True dat, John. When I'm asked that question, I simply state that it's from a wonderful mixture of local flowering trees, crops, wildflowers and other sources that the bees seek out and enjoy. Which is true. The "local mix" here really does produce some outstanding honey flavor! We had some frames that were bright red even this year...it was really weird to see that when we were extracting.

[Randall J Cox]

Mark, I remember when you came back to the states years ago and was planning to build your dream shop. Lots of water under the bridge since then. Glad to hear you found something that finally works. I sanded our front door (outside side) that had many of my coats of spar varnish on it, my eyelids swelled up. Tried to finish the last of the sanding weeks later, just a 8" square patch, eyelids swelled up again... Not fun. Anyway, good luck. Randy

[Kent Cartwright]

If someone is reading this post in 2021, post a comment and ask me how I am doing. It will be interesting to see how long this turbinate crush and regular sinus rinses lasts, but today I am a very happy woodworker.

As someone who has suddenly, like in the past year, begun to show sensitivity to wood dust after 25 years in the hobby, how has your treatment plan worked out long-term? How are you doing?

[Alan Lightstone]

Okay Mark. I'll bite. How are you doing now in 2021? I've been lucky in that I haven't been sensitive to any woods that I've used so far, but one never knows.

I'll refrain from warnings regarding Neti Pots. Hopefully those who use them have gotten some good safety warnings. Here's a link to an FDA post regarding them, from 4 days ago: https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/rinsing-your-sinuses-neti-pots-safe

Since retirement, I've become even crazier regarding air filtration in my shop. I am a huge believer in using a good P100 respirator when working with wood that generates dust, with several air cleaners (one recently homemade discussed in another thread) going and a high quality cyclone. I've just seen way too many patients with bad COPD.

The air quality in parts of the country now due to the wildfires out West is frighteningly bad. I have a good friend in Reno, and the AQI he sent me from a local monitoring station is 730!!!!!! :eek::eek::eek: Another friend is on vacation in Jackson, Wyoming, and the AQI on Friday was 170. Imagine spending days outdoors, trying to enjoy a well-deserved vacation and breathing that dangerous air.

I've also had a good HEPA air cleaner in our bedroom for the past couple of years. So at least nighttime hours our air quality is outstanding.

Well, circling back to the reason for my post here. If you are unlucky enough to be sensitive / allergic to some of these woods, besides the medical treatments you are describing, there are other environmental things that you should do to help yourself. Personally I have a Dylos meter, and I don't take off my P100 respirator until the small particle count is less than ambient. And lately, I wear it until it gets somewhat below ambient. I also have a timer on that runs my homemade MERV13 filter for 30 minutes, 3 times a day. The Dylos meter reads incredible low levels of dust when doing that, and it uses only a few pennies of electricity a day. So the ambient air in my shop is now far cleaner from those antigens.

[mark mcfarlane]

As someone who has suddenly, like in the past year, begun to show sensitivity to wood dust after 25 years in the hobby, how has your treatment plan worked out long-term? How are you doing?

Hi Kent. I've mostly been allergy symptom free since my turbinate crush surgery 20 months ago. I've had a few occasional 'bad days' but nothing like before the surgery where the majority of days were bad. Other's experience will vary.

I take a generic Claritin or Zyrtec every day. I inhale a low dose steroid on days when I remember (e.g. flonase) and I use the Neil Med nasal rinse with distilled water as needed a few times a month, e.g. after dusty shop days or being outside on a bad polen day. I also try to remember to wear a surgical mask in the shop on days when I'm making a lot of dust, particularly when cleaning with my leaf blower :). So far these moderately intrusive precautions are working and it is great to breathe well.

I can't say whether the turbinate crush was necessary but I think it did help jump start my recovery providing instant relief and giving the other treatments a chance to work.

The post-surgical treatments that are working so far:

1) daily allergy pill
2) almost daily low dose steroid spray
3) occasional sinus rinse with sterilized water and Neil Med pH balancing powder

For me the ongoing treatments are worth the nuisance, I feel so much better every day.

I hope you find something that works well for you.