Felder questions

[Acharya Kumarswami]

I am lining up a Felder KF 700P purchase for late 2020 and I think I've worn out my customer service guy with questions.
Any users out there know the weight of the 1300mm outrigger table? I notice the 1500 looks pretty heavy, as Felder offers a cart to move it around. For that and shop size limitations, I am planning to get the 1300 but would like to know the weight.

Also, is the 9 foot crosscut fence for the slider our shortest option for use with the outrigger table? That's pretty long for my shop.
I would prefer a 6 foot fence with extension, but I don't see any such offerings, even for lower end Felders.

I am planning to get the 41" crosscut fence as well, but if I'm not mistaken it does not coordinate with the outrigger table, only with its little add-on table extension.

[Mark e Kessler]

Keep asking them questions, make em earn the money...

I don’t know the weight but I can’t imagine its much less than the 1500, the cart works with both. I have the 1500 and cart, its heavy but not to bad if you take the fence off, do you plan on taking on and off a lot? I think the bigger issuer is it would be a bit awkward to remove alone, it can be done but much easier with the cart. I don’t take mine off and on a lot and was apprehensive about buying the cart but glad I did. Also Its on sale now and if anything the price will go up next year.

How large is your space? Go with the 1500 if you can i have 24’ x 24’ and it works and I have a lot of stuff...

the shorter crosscut fence work on the back end of the slide or about in the middle (on a 9’ slide, could be different on other lengths), you do not need the table for it to work, the table is nice. If you want a table think about getting the parallel guide, it comes with a table and is maybe a few hundred more, thats on sal right now as well.

You can cut the fence down to a point, I think maybe 6”-9” on the 1500 maybe more on the 1300



I am lining up a Felder KF 700P purchase for late 2020 and I think I've worn out my customer service guy with questions.
Any users out there know the weight of the 1300mm outrigger table? I notice the 1500 looks pretty heavy, as Felder offers a cart to move it around. For that and shop size limitations, I am planning to get the 1300 but would like to know the weight.

Also, is the 9 foot crosscut fence for the slider our shortest option for use with the outrigger table? That's pretty long for my shop.
I would prefer a 6 foot fence with extension, but I don't see any such offerings, even for lower end Felders.

I am planning to get the 41" crosscut fence as well, but if I'm not mistaken it does not coordinate with the outrigger table, only with its little add-on table extension.

[Acharya Kumarswami]

Keep asking them questions, make em earn the money...

I don’t know the weight but I can’t imagine its much less than the 1500, the cart works with both. I have the 1500 and cart, its heavy but not to bad if you take the fence off, do you plan on taking on and off a lot? I think the bigger issuer is it would be a bit awkward to remove alone, it can be done but much easier with the cart. I don’t take mine off and on a lot and was apprehensive about buying the cart but glad I did. Also Its on sale now and if anything the price will go up next year.

How large is your space? Go with the 1500 if you can i have 24’ x 24’ and it works and I have a lot of stuff...

the shorter crosscut fence work on the back end of the slide or about in the middle (on a 9’ slide, could be different on other lengths), you do not need the table for it to work, the table is nice. If you want a table think about getting the parallel guide, it comes with a table and is maybe a few hundred more, thats on sal right now as well.

You can cut the fence down to a point, I think maybe 6”-9” on the 1500 maybe more on the 1300

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Hi Mark. Thank you very much for the info. To give the full picture, I am upgrading from a SCMI Minimax combo machine I bought 20 years ago. It has a 5.5 foot slider and a lightweight outrigger table. So I am frankly worried about going too big with this machine. But after a lot of research I have not found anything that fits the bill as well as this saw/shaper, along with the Hammer 16" jointer.

I don't do much plywood work at all (though others using the machine may do so if it is set up well for that), and I HAVE been doing all my crosscutting on a Dewalt CMsaw. I have figured out a way to move things around in my shop (21 wide by 34 long) to allow for the outrigger to function without running into a bench I have near the Minimax now.

I appreciate knowing that the fence can be cut down as needed. If the outrigger table is that heavy, I will plan on keeping it on the machine, rather then mostly off. That will encourage me to use it for crosscutting, which I know will yield results superior to a miter saw. What's the advantage of the 1500 outrigger table over the 1300? They both accept the precision indexing miter guide. Is it just the heavier duty construction.

Appreciate your insights.

[Mark e Kessler]

The 1500 outrigger is a little bit longer but the same depth as the 1300, it also has a roller on the end which os nice at times.

Yes, use it for all the crosscutting you can - that’s one of the main reason to own a slider, I don’t even use my miter saw any more as the cuts are inferior to the slider plus a ton of space is saved by not having it setup. Same goes for the festool track saw, it is still used when I need to bring the cut to the work which is rare.

I also do not do a lot of full sheet ply work maybe 10 sheets a year, get the longest slider you can you can always shorten the stroke by pulling the outrigger in. 9’ is the min in my case, even though I don’t do a lot of ply but I want to be able to rip a 8’ piece of solid without a lot of hassle.

Is the saw on the 34’ side, I wish I had that width/length, someday I will just not right now.

If you haven’t yet I would make a full size cutout on cardboard to see how you can make it work , i was thinking a lot like you until I made the template

When you say “precision indexing miter guide” are talking about the one with the pins or the more complicated one that's like 1k? I would not spend the $$$ on the latter unless you have multiple workers using the saw, i am sure it is nice to have but I would spend that money on the parallel guide and the cart or/and the overhead guard. I have been amazed at the ability of hitting the angle the fist time by just lining up the fence with the marks on the saw.




---------
Hi Mark. Thank you very much for the info. To give the full picture, I am upgrading from a SCMI Minimax combo machine I bought 20 years ago. It has a 5.5 foot slider and a lightweight outrigger table. So I am frankly worried about going too big with this machine. But after a lot of research I have not found anything that fits the bill as well as this saw/shaper, along with the Hammer 16" jointer.

I don't do much plywood work at all (though others using the machine may do so if it is set up well for that), and I HAVE been doing all my crosscutting on a Dewalt CMsaw. I have figured out a way to move things around in my shop (21 wide by 34 long) to allow for the outrigger to function without running into a bench I have near the Minimax now.

I appreciate knowing that the fence can be cut down as needed. If the outrigger table is that heavy, I will plan on keeping it on the machine, rather then mostly off. That will encourage me to use it for crosscutting, which I know will yield results superior to a miter saw. What's the advantage of the 1500 outrigger table over the 1300? They both accept the precision indexing miter guide. Is it just the heavier duty construction.

Appreciate your insights.

[Tim Derr]

Hey Acharya,

I sent you an email the other day - something came through another email to me. I followed up to it - anything I can help with let me know and I am happy to assist.

t.derr@felder-group.com
866-792-5288 ext 225

All the best

[Bird Cupps]

Hello Acharya

I was looking at this saw, too. Also looking at Minimax. I'm curious which minimax machine you own and why you want to replace it?

Do you know there is a Felder owners listserv? Those folks might have some thoughts for you.

Bird

[Acharya Kumarswami]

Hi Bird. One of the Creek members did tell me about the felder forum. It is definitely a treasury of information.
My Minimax is a CU 300CK (combo machine). It's about 19 years old and the motors are starting to go.
It's at the low end of the SCM product line. The Felder is definitely an enormous step up from the 300CK.
Rather than getting another combbo machine, I am planning on the Felder KF 700 and the 16" Hammer jointer.
I already have thicknesser machines.

[Bird Cupps]

Hawaii, too, huh? Shipping must be expensive.

The Cu300 is what I'm looking at but was also thinking about a used felder. It is hard to decide on these things when you they are so hard to go see.

[Tom Bain]

I have a K940s and previously a K500, and I’ve used both the 1300mm and 1500mm outrigger. They both work great, but the 1500 is definitely beefier. I almost never take the outrigger off, so not sure of the exact weight. I wouldn’t describe it as light and a bit awkward with the long post on one end. It’s not something I would want to take on and off frequently. On my K500 I did remove the crosscut fence pretty regularly and that is a fairly easy process.

[Erik Loza]

The 1300mm outrigger is not difficult to take on and off but don’t know if I’d want to plan on taking off a 1500 outrigger frequently. At least not without the trolley. Do-able but awkward. As Tom said, if you have a machine that big, you probably wouldn’t be taking on and off all time, anyhow. I actually had one of our guys video me lifting the 1500, so a customer could see about how much effort you would need, but I can’t seem to find it now.

Erik

[Acharya Kumarswami]

Hi Mark
In this thread a while back you mentioned; "You can cut the [crosscut] fence down to a point, I think maybe 6”-9” on the 1500 maybe more on the 1300."
I think I would like to plan on doing this. That way, fitting wise, I could leave the outrigger and fence on the machine most of the time. Do you know if the numbering rule on the XCut fence Extension could be easily adjusted so that the dimensions would be right?

[Mark e Kessler]

it slides out, you can cut it down its aluminum. Also you will probably want to use a Starrett stick on tape on top of the existing one, the Felder one is difficult to read. Like this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ELMR2OK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Hi Mark
In this thread a while back you mentioned; "You can cut the [crosscut] fence down to a point, I think maybe 6”-9” on the 1500 maybe more on the 1300."
I think I would like to plan on doing this. That way, fitting wise, I could leave the outrigger and fence on the machine most of the time. Do you know if the numbering rule on the XCut fence Extension could be easily adjusted so that the dimensions would be right?

[Acharya Kumarswami]

Thank you Mark.
Best regards
Acharya

[Acharya Kumarswami]

I'm wondering if there is a way on the KF 700 to cut a piece of plywood in half. I realize the overhead dust collector would be in the way. It looks like that would be cumbersome to remove. But if it were removed, is there anything preventing one from cutting a plywood sheet in half using the crosscut fence on the slider?

If that is the case, it occurs to me that this might be a good argument for the standard dust collection blade guard system, since it would be easier to remove the tubing, or better yet the hose could be suspened above the saw.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

I have a KF 700 SP with the 1500mm outrigger with the heavy Kappa fence and digital stops. I also have the dedicated cart for the fence + outrigger combo. It would be fool hardy to consider taking off this combination without the cart. With the cart, it is quite easy but still a heavy task. However, I have not taken the fence + outrigger off of the saw in 6 months. I thought I would take it off using the cart, but reality is that I rarely ever see a need to take it off of the saw (except for straight line rip rough lumber). Moreover, the outrigger (with shop-made storage solutions) becomes a place to store pencils, squares, tape measures, etc for the measuring and marking tasks you perform at the saw.

[Acharya Kumarswami]

Thank you. This is helpful. I have come to the same conclusion and have made some pretty major changes in the shop to accommodate keeping the outrigger and fence on the machine all the time. But we could even keep it on for straight-line ripping rough lumber as well, right? I suppose I will still buy the cart though.

By the way, does the ripping shoe come with the package, or is it an option we must specify?
I like the storage solution idea, for sure. That sounds super handy.

[Jim Becker]

I got a ripping shoe with my slider in (I think) 2004...it's never been used. I only keep it around so that I have it if in the distant future I sell the tool. I generally straight line rip with my outrigger on the tool, but I also rarely rip a board that's longer than 8'. I rip on the wagon after flattening and thicknessing and generally do the parallel rip using my Fritz and Franz jig (using it as a parallel ripping jig. It's rare I rip a board that's still rough, honestly. I don't use the rip fence until things get small or the particular operation is better handled that way.

[nicholas mitchell]

Jim, I find straight line ripping a rough board on the slider sure saves a lot of passes at the jointer.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

The ripping shoe was included when I purchased the KF 700 SP. You should confirm with your sale rep. When I rip 9-10 feet long rough lumber, I take the fence off of the outrigger. It is not too bad by itself, without the outrigger.

Accessories to consider:

Solid cast iron table extension, part number 01.1.001. The one with the F coupling. This attaches to the main cast iron table outfeed side. It prevents lumber from falling off of the saw after cut.

Aluminum andonized table extension, part number 01.2.140. The large extension table. Goes to the same position as the above. Will only work if you don't plan to put a power feeder on the KF. Frankly, you will get a power feeder down the road. But this item is good for other Felder machines. I think it is relatively inexpensive when it goes on sale, which it is currently on Felder e-shop.

Aluminum table extension for X-roll sliding table, part number 430-104. It attaches to the sliding table with the P ("prism") coupling. OR...

Rip fence for X-roll sliding tables, part number 430-149. This a parallel rip fence, but the parallel guide can be removed, leaving a larger extension table on the sliding table. My personal preference is the 430-104 because the 430-149 is quite a bit longer, correspondingly heavier and as a result, can get in the way of using the saw.

The famous "butt bar." Its official name is "Handle for X-roll aluminum sliding tables." Part no. 430-030. It is a nice accessory for when you process sheet good over and over and over.

Consider buying accessories with your KF if your KF is discounted because the discount applies to the accessories also.

SW

[Tom Bain]

I set the positive reference stop on outrigger fence to the outside (away from the blade), which is/was opposite of how the saw is originally set-up. This allows me to just slide the fence over a bit and put the ripping shoe on the end of the table to handle the majority of boards for straight-line ripping. If the board is really wide then the fence still need to come off.

[Acharya Kumarswami]

On my current machine, an SCM Minimax 300 cu with 60" slider, came with no dust collection on the blade, though there is a 2" port on the shroud that attaches to the riving knife. that has always been a bane of this tool, one of a few, but it has also not interfered with crosscutting stock with more than 31" to the right of the blade, since there is no overhead saw guard limiting that operation. I just have had to flip the jointer guard down and remove the saw fence, etc. and use the slider and outrigger/fence to make the cut, such as cutting a piece of plywood in half. With the desire to maintain this capability, I am tending toward not getting the overhead saw guard. Can anyone tell me how difficult or easy it is to remove the simple riving knife guard system that comes standard with the KF 700? Better yet, I am visualizing bringing dust collection hose down from above to the saw guard to minimize interference. Any thoughts from forum members?

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, the splitter mounted guard comes off by loosening one fastener.

I use an overhead hose to the saw guard..........Rod.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, I find straight line ripping a rough board on the slider sure saves a lot of passes at the jointer.
I almost never even use the jointer for edges after straight-line ripping on the slider... :) ...which saves even more time!