Things you would have done different when Constructing your Shop

[Hank Keller]

I'm a year away (hopefully) from constructing my shop and would like to know from those who have built their own shop what you would have done differently. Anything goes! Thanks!

[CPeter James]

Mine is 20 x 24 and I wish it were twice as big. It is a constant struggle to find space in it. Too many big tools.

CPeter

[Bill Lewis]

Well, "anything goes" could imply "dream shop" type of suggestions.

I really can't think of anything major that I would have done differently. I did install 4" PVC electrical conduit under the floor for Table saw dust collection. If I were to do it again, I would have used 6" instead.

I've got a basement shop 16.5' x 33' x 9' It would be nice to have a little more space.

[tod evans]

go as large as you can, 14ft ceilings, 3-phase power, as much natural light as practical, seperate building for compressors and flamables. if at all possible place it where you have to drive to the shop, even if it`s only a 1/4 mile. run all electric in metal conduit........02 tod

[Rob Bourgeois]

Tod...why drive to the shop? Never heard that one before.

my suggestiosn..Tall ceilings, and more windows...up high in the useless space above where you can reach with out an stool. Flexiblity in design--meaning dont set your outlets and dust collection in one location unless you are absolutely sure you want the tool you intended to be there always in that spot. Tool prefernces change--for instance my table saw is mainly just a work station with a lot of my projects. The cross cut miter saw adn band saw have been gettign much more use. If my tabel saw was anchored in position so to speak. I wouldnt be able to move it out of the way and let another tool take center stage.

[Andy Hoyt]

More free space. Lots of more free space. Tons of future expansion free space. I'm talking lots and lots here.

Tod - Why the 1/4 mile commute. Mine is thirty seven steps from the kitchen and all indoors, Saves on gas, long johns, the need for dual coffee pots, plumbing, etc

EDIT: And if you're planning on a DC System, consider anything other than a slab so you can run all your ductwork below the floor and still have access to it. Why? Besides being downright unsightly, all those drops tend to get it the way while maneuvering stuff, spinning lumber, etc

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Hank, in my new shop the bottom of all electrical outlets are 48 1/4" from the floor. I wished now I'd placed them 52" or so up from the floor. Having them up high allows me to stand sheet goods against the wall and still have access. If I'd placed them higher, I could frame in wood storage with some 2x on the floor and still have access.

2ndly, if you're not planning on bringing vehicles into the shop (I am) I'd consider a couple of double doors instead of overhead garage doors for bringing in materials and large shop tools. Though I have an insulated garage door, it still doesn't seal as tightly as double insulated doors would.

[tod evans]

fellows, i`ve had my shop attached to the house, it`s not something i would ever do again. i like having to "go" to the shop, besides the obvious dust/odor/noise issues it gives me a seperate enviorment in witch to build and the commute lets me get into the correct mindset.....when i`m home i`m with my family, when i`m at the shop i`m woodworking, or pecking at this keyboard on smc:) .....02 tod

[Frank Pellow]

I am happy (and somewhat surprised) to be able to say that there is not a lot that I would do differently. Here is the list:

1) Extra space would, of course be nice, but I am pushing the legal limit (33%) for total building coverage on my lot. I would add on foot to the north wing of the building (which would increase the interior space by 10.5 square feet -up from 431).

2) Make the walls 6 inches higher all around. Right now they are 8 feet at one side and 6.5 feet at the other rising to 10 feet at the peek.

3) Put in one additional (2 foot by 6 foot) skylight. I installed 3, but one more would be great.

[Per Swenson]

Oh, I agree with Todd on this,

I don't have it but you need that separation.

The ability to close the door and walk away or vice versa

does wonders for the mindset. Also makes it less convenient

starting work(or play) at 4 in the morning. Or finishing.

Next shop on 3000 to 5000 sqft of concrete topped with a high

end metal building.

Per

[Steve Wargo]

Another thought to Tod's logic. I would personally love to have my shop located at a different location. I have a tendency to work on pieces way too late at night. Usually when I'm working late I tend to make mistakes. Nothing major but often it will be a problem that I have to now spend time fixing. This usually occurs when I should have never been in the shop to begin with. At 1AM I would be less apt to drive to the shop to work for an hour or 2 eliminating the late night mistakes. The idea of being "in the shop" and being with the family is another nice feature. I actually lock the door to my shop when I'm working now, since I had my oldest son scare the lights out of me when I was working one time. I turned around and he was behind be. Nice to know that nobody is behind you when you're all alone in the shop.

[Hank Knight]

I'm relatively happy with my shop, given the size constraints that I can't change. There are, however three major things I would I would do differently if I were to do it over again.

First and foremost, I would have a hardwood floor. Concrete is VERY uncomfortable and hard on tools.

Second, I would plan for more wood storage. I'm about maxed out as it is and I don't have nearly enough storage room, especially for current projects.

Third, I would design dust collection into the shop plan. When I built my shop 15 years ago, dust collection wasn't a big issue for me and hardware for small shops wasn't nearly as advanced as it is today. I'd love to have a cyclone, but there's just no room.

[Byron Trantham]

I actually lock the door to my shop when I'm working now, since I had my oldest son scare the lights out of me when I was working one time. I turned around and he was behind be. Nice to know that nobody is behind you when you're all alone in the shop.

I work in the basement. The family knows not to open the door if they hear ANYTHING running. Like you, I had the begeezus scared out of me [while behind the TS] when my wife walked in and I didn't hear her.

Change my shop? Just about anything you could think of though space is the prime issue.

[Bill Simmeth]

I'm coming down the home stretch of re-doing my shop space (seems I've been saying this for the better part of a year now...). My advice is don't buy anything until you are ready to put it in its place and put it to use! I can't tell you the number of things I bought 1,2,3 years ago in anticipation of this project that are :mad: either in the way, :( now obsolete and a better item available (cyclone comes to mind here) or :o just plain not going to be used! Unless you're getting a serious "deal", wait until you're ready for it! My 2 shekels.

[Martin Lutz]

Bigger, mine is 1600 sf enclosed.
more natural lighting, skylights I think would be nice.
in floor heat.
Some things I really like are the cathedral ceiling and natural wood walls.
These are just off the top of my head. I like my shop and am very pleased with most of it. But the perfiect shop is a continous evolution.

[Art Mulder]

I've never built my own shop, but I still enjoy reading these sort of threads, for the ideas that they give me to work into my own existing basement shop.

Hank, personally, I'd advise you to ignore the people who say "twice as big!" and the like. First, I suspect that most everyone who builds a shop is already stretching themselves financially to do so. Doubling the square footage isn't usually a realistic option. Second, the more I hang out in woodworking forums, the more I realize that shops are just like money. (No matter how much you have, when asked "How much do you need?" The answer is the same: "Just a bit more")

What I would like to see more of, are suggestions that save money, or don't cost much, or ways that I can even *reduce* the space required.

For instance, on another web forum I read a really good suggestion regarding lighting: This fellow built a shop, and realized that he would probably rearrange his shop in the future, so was trying to figure out what to do with his lighting. What he did was run two circuits of switched outlets down the center of his ceiling, and wired a cord to each of his fluorescent fixutures which he plugged into a nearby ceiling outlet. Now he can move his lighting around very easily, and the cost difference was minimal.

[John Bailey]

I would agree with Art on this one. I'm still working on my shop. I had plans to build a 24X40 shop because I had a project that was going to take that size shop. That would mean equiping, heating and maintaining that size shop. Everything would cost more and take more time maintaining it the rest of my life. I gave a realistic look and assessment of what I really needed. I can put up a temporary structure for that one time project. I decided on a 20x20 shop and I think I'm going to be happy with that decision. Less time and money on maintaining and more time and money on woodworking.

John

[Larry Fox]

I agree with most of the posters that space, space and more space. Mine is 2 bays of a 3-car garage and it is really tight in there if working on a project of any size. Second, and Hank mentions this above, is no concreate floors. My knees are not so good and I find that the concrete fatigues my knees and legs. In-floor heat would be nice too but now I am dreaming. I to like the idea of seperating the shop from the house for all the reasons already mentioned. Additional lumber storage would be nice. I have flouresant (sp?) lights but would prefer to work under natural light whenever possible.

[Larry Copas]

Always a balance between money and desire...I could think of lot’s of things I would like to have if money was unlimited. Given that constraint the only thing I would have paid extra for is a hot water heating system in my slab.

[Steve Clardy]

Put in office space farther back into the shop. It's at the front entry door.
Winter time, all the snow, mud, etc. gets tracked right in. Door opens, office cools off.
Finished all the insulation before I moved in.
Put in a floor heating system, hot water produced from current wood stove.
All my duct work is under concrete. Made the main runs 8" instead of 6".
Made all the legs 6" instead of 4".

[Travis Porter]

I am a hobbyist so I wanted my mess at home. I built a 24 x 32 detached shop with 1 set of french doors and 4 windows on a slab. I had the shell built to match my house and did all the finishing, wiring, etc. myself. Subbed out having forced heat/air installed and that was a big plus.

Regrets

I wish I had planned and put dust collection and electrical in the slab. That may not have worked out as I did lay the shop out in advance, but now I am rearranging......

The roof is 12/12 pitch and I had water seepage under the door when it rained I installed gutters, but I am now again getting some seepage. I do not think the builder caulked the bottom of the door. My regret is if you have a slab the sidewalk/walkway should be a couple of inches below the slab of the structure.

[Larry Browning]

Always put in a toilet, sink, and maybe even a shower. I cannot imagine not having a toilet, and sink in my shop. The sink is used on almost every project I do. Even if it's just used to dampen a rag to wipe off glue. If I didn't have the sink I would have to go up to the house just to dampen a rag. What a major hastle that would be:eek:. And having the toilet is pretty self explainitory.

[Eddie Watkins]

My shop is 24 x 30 with a third being 8' tall and rest 10'. I like John Bailey's comment about the extra cost of heating and cooling, if you choose, goes up with extra space. It makes you think about how big do you really want a shop. Given the choice, I would increase the height to 10' everywhere before I would add to the length or width. I would also add a room to be able to separate the compressor and dust collector from the rest of the shop. I originally wired 2 220 plugs and now have 4 and am planning on adding another so I should have added more 220s originally. The things I have that run 220 are table saw, planer, dust collector, lathe, and air conditioner. I have 6 8' T8 4 bulb flourescent fixtures and plan on adding three more. The light is pretty good, I just want it better.

[aaron allen]

Twice as big and twice as tall ?? How are you going to heat this thing?? Those infared heat tube devices that heat items not the air, stay away from those. They are tempting given their cheaper install and lower gas usage but they shrink laminates and affect the fit of joinery and cab. doors after assembled. Give thought to controlling the humidity.

Keep the finishing area as separate as possible. Self explanatory I assume.

Lastly construct a compressor room to keep noise to a min. A shop I worked in made a small room just big enough for a vert comp., dryer and a future 60 gallon tank. The walls were cinder blocks with sand filling the cavity each layer. steel insulated door and we hardly heard that thing.

[Art Mulder]

If I didn't have the sink I would have to go up to the house just to dampen a rag. What a major hastle that would be.

Larry, that is an easy one. I just keep an old dish detergent bottle of water on the shelf. any time I want to dampen a rag, just pop the top and squirt out a bit. A few old yogurt cups sit beside it. Squirt in a bit more, and I have enough water for soaking a glue swab/brush after use. (saves having to run up the stairs from the basement)

Sure, a toilet would be nice, but from what I gather, adding plumbing to a free-standing building is a HUGE expense.

[Jim Kountz]

Taller, for sure. I have 8 ft. ceilings and really hate it. Also I would love to have a heated floor. Safest way to heat a shop I think. I would have the dust collection, heat and compressors in another room too. Noise kills! I see so many great ideas in other shops I want them all but I think in the end the best thing to do is really think out what you want, how you work and what tools/equipment you have now or plan on getting and go from there. Its a hard thing really.

[Bob Johnson2]

Compressor and dust collector external to shop. Better heating/cooling, lots of natural light/views/ventilation, 8' ceilings or better, no posts, sink, blocked off painting room, wood shed. I could go on and on, can you tell I'm in the basement?

[Steve Rowe]

Don't build it like a garage. If I were to rebuild today I would:

Have heating and cooling
Build on a crawl space so that I could route dust collection and power to tools in the center (prevent the trip hazard)
Have plenty of natural light
10 foot walls (have these) and cathedral ceiling for greater height
Bathroom and utility sink with real running water
Office for my drafting table, books, manuals, magazines

[Jim Becker]

More space is always appreciated...and higher ceilings. And I would have put my miter station on a different wall if I had built if after expanding the shop to where it is now. I'd also not have the stairway where is it in the middle...but I didn't build the building and it would be terribly inconvenient to move it at this point.

[Joe Mioux]

I suspect those of you who said, take your shop off-site and drive to it are pro's. For the hobbyist, it is nice to walk to the shop.

I have been toying around with the idea, of buying a greenhouse and converting it to a woodworking shop. Before any of you poo poo the idea, I am very aware of greenhouse environments.

My favorite greehouse that I own is one a small one at my branch flower shop. It is approximately 24 x30 with 12 foot bottom of truss height. Concrete floor with two heating systems. In floor hot water and perimeter hot H2O heating at the bottom of the trusses. Two vents and a shade system. The roof glass is tempered while the side glass is annealled. Glass sizes ranges from 35" x48" to 35 x 60. Chemically coated for UV and Infrared light issues. Computer operated enviromental controls. Summer heat issues could be addressed with a very heavy coat white greenhouse shade. That stuff comes off when the temps go south.

I don't necessarily need that large of a space but connecting something like that to my garage 24x32 is an option that is worth considering.

Joe

[Steve Stube]

Things you would have done different when Constructing your Shop (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=27869)

Not much, pret near got it perfect the first time!

But okay, I do wish I had added the 16' addition to the end (that is a 16' X 28' two story addition) that I determined I would/could use as unheated shop storage area. I bought all the materials for this addition in 1981 prior to enclosing the main portion (28' X 48' two story) but decided to wait 2 or 3 years to add it based on some limitations of the time. Well 24 years later I still have most of the materials under tarps but not the energy to build it. I could sure use the space.

[Bob Yarbrough]

Decent heat!

[Matt Meiser]

More space--oh wait, someone else said that. My building was existing, I just finished out the space. I like the high ceilings, but 12' is hard to work with. 8' is too short, so I'd probably go 10. I have a HUGE overhead door that I'd elimate or make a lot shorter. I rarely open it. and it takes a lot of wall space. More windows--only had 1, and I added a another, but I should have added 3 more. In floor heat would be nice, but contractors around here wouldn't talk to me about it because of the cost when I was orignially planning to build. The overhead heater works well though. Love the water supply, but no drains, so I just have a faucet over a dry sink. I would have run 2-3 2" conduits from the house for future uses. I have a computer but have to use wireless which took an extra access point and an external antenna on the computer. The security system design was tricky as well because I had to use an existing cable, but I won't go into details there. Had 100A electrical service already, but I should have changed the panel out to one with more spaces. Its not overloaded, but I like splitting things up on separate circuits more than is required which uses a lot of space. I also woul have surface mounted more of the wiring other than the basic wall outlets. I would have put the compressor and dust collector in a separate space. Everyone told me to, but did I listen? Nooooo. In the back part where I have the tractor stored, I wouldn't have installed the sliding door. I'll eventually replace it with an overhead door.

The things I did right:
I went to a lighting store and asked for advice and followed it. The lighting is awesome. I insulated heavily and it pays off. I played with my tool layout a lot on paper and haven't moved the major tools since. I decided that all car maintenance would be done in the attached garage rather than my shop. I didn't rush the buildout and kept my tools in storage so that I didn't have to work around them. That let me do things like rent scaffolding for the ceiling & lighting work and paint with reckless abandon.

[Barry O'Mahony]

-- should have put 6" pipe for the DC in the slab (or two 4" runs) rather than the single 4" run I did put in.

-- should have put rigid foam insulation under the slab. Even if you don't go with radiant heat.

Oh, one thing I did right is have a separate 200A service at the shop (it feeds to a couple of outbuildings with feeders as well). 'easy to add another circuit when needed.

[Mike Tempel]

My shop is a detached two car garage with bare stud walls that my wife has been nice enough to let me have. Had I a choice I would like to have a larger size shop although mine now is more than double what I used to have before we moved so it is really hard to wish for more. I would like to have a bathroom with a toilet and a sink. Also, I would like to have an office where I could sit, work, and think where I would have a nice desk, a couple of file cabinets, etc. - nothing to outlandish but someplace quiet and tranquil to relax to once in a while. A dedicated finishing room would be nice but would rather have the office that could double as such. I currently don't have any type of climate control and that would be a great plus - AC for the southeast Texas summers and heat for our cold :rolleyes: winters (hey - it was only 60° here today!!).
I must say that I am very happy with what I have now - for a weekend wood butcher I couldn't ask for much more. If I could add just one thing it would definitely be climate control and insulation as my shop time is minimal at best for about six months or more out of the year.

[Bart Leetch]

Well I know from the experience I have had in this small shop that that a 24'x30' or a 32x32' with a 10' ceiling would do me just fine.

I think the big thing is to learn organization, having a place pretty much for everything & putting things in their place when your through with them.

Also use the space you have. With the space I see in some pictures of the shops that is just wide open space or what ever I could just take a little here & there from each shop not enough that you'd even notice it & bingo before you know it I'd have a nice sized shop.

[Frank Pellow]

...
I could just take a little here & there from each shop not enough that you'd even notice it & bingo before you know it I'd have a nice sized shop.
You can't have any of mine Bart. :p I would definately notice. I know that I am not as crowded in my shop as you, are in yours, but I am crowded.

[Roger Los]

Best thing I ever did in a shop was to paint the slab with a medium colored epoxy, paint the walls and ceiling gloss white, and install way too many flourescent light fixtures (six-eight foot two blub fixtures in a 15 x 20 space). The difference all that light makes is amazing.

[Mark Riegsecker]

[quote=Hank Keller] I'm a year away (hopefully) from constructing my shop and would like to know from those who have built their own shop what you would have done differently

The last shop I built I first thoroughly read and studied "The Workshop Book" written very well by Mark Dusinske(sp). I highly recommend it. I didn't want anything changed when the 30' by 40' structure was finished. Had a sink, toilet, shower, separate room for compressor and vac. the 4" pipe was in the crawl space under the hard wood floor. The air was piped around the perimeter of the shop with quick connects every 6', overhead heating. Ceiling trusses supported the 10' ceiling to eliminate ceiling posts.
As I write this I can't help to wonder " can this be a hobby? It was a bit much.
Regardless of what you choose, it takes alot of money and unless you are exceptionally gifted like a few of our Creekers we read about, you will never make the first penny to help pay for it.

[Ron Jones near Indy]

I would definitely have 10' side walls. My 24 x 24 space needs aditional space for projects in work and wood. If space allowed I would add a restroom and shower. It would have hot and cold water even if the restroom and shower were cut. Don't forget climate control.

Keep in mind that no matter how large it is, it will not be large enough in no more that 6 months.

[Chris Fite]

Done differently....I would have had the slab raised 6 inches. Being flush with the ground creates challenges with drainage. I like my 12 foot ceilings with the dust collection ductwork up out of the way. The heat in the slab is the bomb. The finiteness of the 24x28 space makes me plan projects. In the headspace above 8 feet, I will install a loft for storage of wood.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Like everyone says, space, more of it, but you cannot always have that, so it is important to use your space well, plan things, and don't try to stuff too much into your shop, or it will become storage, NOT a workspace.

The thing I regret the most, (oh my aching back) is that when everything was fresh and new, I did not put a wooden floor down!!!!

I cannot stress that enough, standing on a concrete floor, even with good shoes/boots and comfort mats, is NOT the same as a nice wooden floor. I would also give you a place to run a wire to the middle of the shop for power at your table saw (can you tell this is a problem for me?).

Lighting is key, I put in way too many lights, or so I hoped, but I now see that I could use some more.

Good Luck, keep us posted!

Cheers!

[Mark Singer]

My current shop is my fourth...each was bigger than the previous...When I designed this one I never imagined doing large projects that I seem to always do. Right now I am working on 45 lin feet of cabinets...it fills my shop...I have ordered larger equipment also. I thought I would build a few chairs...a bed now and then...a dresser...or cabinet...not 15 fullsize 3ft by 8 foot high solid mahogany doors. I should have had a 1600 sq ft shop...I am just a hobbiest...but I could have used more space... ,maybe after I finish this house, I can stick with my onesy towsey plan....maybe:confused:

[Dev Emch]

I would suggest the following items that are a must.....

1). A garage door capable of accepting a full height 36 inch bandsaw. Most garage doors are to short for this and you never know what may follow you home one day. I have yet to meet a woodworker who could turn down a good deal on an oliver 416 or tanny. Then they have to get the backhoe to set it through the door sideways. In the future, get the big doors.

2). Do not use garage doors per say. Use sliding barn type doors. This frees up the space on the inside taken up by the door lifting hardware. Short of hanging your old wet socks on these, they are a waste of space.

3). Consider using a heavy beam and wood floor. Most guys pursue a poured slab. Slabs are extremely difficult for the DIY person to do and cost lots of money. I would not be surprised if the largest expense in your shop was the 6 inch slab. Replace it with a MILL FLOOR. Insane heavy beams followed up with say 2 or 3 in of pine and maybe a 3/4 in hardwood floor. You also have the chance to insulate this floor. One problem I have with a slab is that during the winter, its hard to bring the shop up to temperature due to the thermal mass of the floor and if the machines contains lots of cast iron as mine do, they remain uncomfortably cold for several hours. You can also run DC and power conduits under the floor which makes for a cleaner install. All this and more can be solved by a wood mill floor.

4). Place a concrete landing at the SAME level as your wooden floor by the sliding doors. This way, you can load and unload machines and then use the rollers or pipe rollers or whatever to get them in and out of the shop with ease.

5). If possible, use tonque and groove lumber for the wall. Or you can use ship lap if you prefer. The point is, white washed dry wall does not look that cool and its easy to knock holes in it within a shop environment. The game is to find this lumber on the cheap. Doing this usually provides lumber with more character. I will be redoing my walls soon with beetle kill ponderosa that I harvested from an old tree. My costs will be the $45 dollars per hour to have a woodmizer guy slice these fat logs into boards. It makes for a great shop and a durable one. And my total out of pocket costs will be about 4 hours on the mizer. The rest of the milling will be done by myself during evening hours as time permits.

[Norman Hitt]

I'd have picked a different Contractor.:mad:

If I could have afforded it, I would have put in in-floor radiant heat, but Contrary to most here that don't like overhead doors, one of the things I like best about my shop is my 10' x 10' Insulated overhead door. I've NEVER had a Barn type sliding door that would seal as well as this door does, (from the Overhead Door Co), and I Really enjoy the extra light, fresh air and general Openess it seems to give to the shop, and since it opens onto the Alley, it makes for ease of loading and unloading deliveries to the shop. I have three full length light panels in my roof, and in retrospect, I should have put in four which would be even better in my 25 x 32 shop with 11' walls. I did put on a 6 x 20 shed room which houses a 6 x 6 restroom, and the remaining space is for the cyclone, air compressor, some of the garden tools & a potting sink. The shed opens to the yard, except for the restroom which opens into the shop only. I built in a 14" x 14" channel across the narrow direction of the shop, slightly off center of the length to house 6" DC duct and electrical conduit and it's covered by short lengths of 2" x 12"s set on ledges so it's flush with the slab. I really wanted a 30 x 40 bldg, but "permit limitations" would not allow it. I do wish I had raised the floor another 4 to 6" above grade though.

[lou sansone]

hi all
lots of good suggestions. My shop has many of them incorporated into it and I can say that I am happy with all of them. I probably should have made mine a little bigger, and should have put a basement under my "bench room" for the furnace and oil tanks.

lou

[tod evans]

,maybe after I finish this house, I can stick with my onesy towsey plan....maybe:confused:
yeah right mark! :)

[Bart Leetch]

Well as much as I like Dev's ideas on what floor to use I have to ask how the costs compare with a concrete floor & foundation being poured? Also what about hot water heat in the floor? I have seen people mention their legs hurting on concrete but that when they built their new shop with heat in the floor their legs didn't bother them as much & some not at all.

I use rubber interlocking floor mats now in my small shop & the concrete floor doesn't bother me at all. Of course the entire walkable area of the floor is covered with rubber mats.:eek: :D I purchased about 300 sq. ft. of interlocking mats from Costco when they had them on sale. I still have a little over a box full of matting in storage. It was the best thing I ever did for my shop.

[Chris Damm]

Make It Bigger!!!!!

[JayStPeter]

At some point, budget and location are going to dictate the max size. So, working under these constraints here's my take on my shop http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=10597

The key things I did right:
1. 9' ceilings (10' would be nice, but 9' is good for a basement).
2. Decent access
3. Bright
4. Good electrical layout
5. Planned for future tool purchases

Things I did wrong:
1. Didn't plan well enough for sheet goods storage and lumber storage rack is too small.
2. DC Closet too big and in wrong spot. Probably should've just mounted the DC and enclosed it in place more simply (or not enclosed it at all).

Jay

[Bill Lewis]

Jay, I think we used the same lists for our basement shops! Identical except regarding the DC. Mine's out in the open, but close to the door so it's easy to get the barrel out to dump it.

In order to be sucessful with a shop that you'll be happy with boils down to planning. I stated early on that I didn't think there was much that I would have done differently, and I think owe this to the 2 years I had to plan the shop. Oh, and regarding lumber and sheet good storage, I knew up front I wouldn't have enough in the shop that I was planning. It remains to be a problem that I have yet to completely solve, the solution will only come after I build my outside workshop/tractor shed/garage/whatever building.



The key things I did right:
1. 9' ceilings (10' would be nice, but 9' is good for a basement).
2. Decent access
3. Bright
4. Good electrical layout
5. Planned for future tool purchases

Things I did wrong:
1. Didn't plan well enough for sheet goods storage and lumber storage rack is too small.
2. DC Closet too big and in wrong spot. Probably should've just mounted the DC and enclosed it in place more simply (or not enclosed it at all).

Jay

[Dev Emch]

Well as much as I like Dev's ideas on what floor to use I have to ask how the costs compare with a concrete floor & foundation being poured? Also what about hot water heat in the floor? I have seen people mention their legs hurting on concrete but that when they built their new shop with heat in the floor their legs didn't bother them as much & some not at all.

I use rubber interlocking floor mats now in my small shop & the concrete floor doesn't bother me at all. Of course the entire walkable area of the floor is covered with rubber mats.:eek: :D I purchased about 300 sq. ft. of interlocking mats from Costco when they had them on sale. I still have a little over a box full of matting in storage. It was the best thing I ever did for my shop.

I am starting a new thread to cover this topic...

[PeterTorresani]

I'm just finishing my shop now, and ignoring the electrical problem I recently posted about, I think I am going to be pretty happy. That of course is said before I have even cut a chip.

My ceiling is 9' 6", I wish I would have use another course of block and had a full 10'.

Due to a hail strom after the roofing was done, I will be re-roofing next spring, When I do that I plan to put in a couple sola-tubes for natural lighting toward the back (windowless) area.

I wish that I had put in underground electrical conduit and DC ducting for the tablesaw that will be in the center of my shop.

Others have stated lots of windows. I tend to disagree. Enough for natural light, but they steal a lot of wall space. I put mine 3' off the ground to get a little extra room underneath. I would have went another 6", but the outer appearance would have been kinda funny.

Couple things I did right
200Amps
In floor radiant heat
Lots of lights (68 T8 bulbs)
double wide entry door (7'), no overhead
Separate building, but close to house

[Larry Browning]

Sure, a toilet would be nice, but from what I gather, adding plumbing to a free-standing building is a HUGE expense.
Well, In my case, it cost me $300 (ncluding materials) to have a plumber come out and do all the rough in for the toilet and sink drain. (took him only about an hour :eek: ) I did all the incoming water plumbing with copper, about $30. Sink, toilet, and hot water heater, another $250 to $300. Maybe $600 - $700 total with other misc. stuff I didn't think of. Is that too expensive? How much did that add to the value of the building? In my book that is money well spent! Maybe, to someone else it is not that important, but to me, having the sink and toilet makes working in the shop MUCH more enjoyable.

[Matt Meiser]

Well, In my case, it cost me $300 (ncluding materials) to have a plumber come out and do all the rough in for the toilet and sink drain. (took him only about an hour :eek: )

Your building must be close and your sewer/septic must be deep. I'd have to pump as the shop sits about 4' lower than the house and the septic is about the same elevation as the house. The other option would be a separate septic system.

[JayStPeter]

Jay, I think we used the same lists for our basement shops! Identical except regarding the DC. Mine's out in the open, but close to the door so it's easy to get the barrel out to dump it.

In order to be sucessful with a shop that you'll be happy with boils down to planning. I stated early on that I didn't think there was much that I would have done differently, and I think owe this to the 2 years I had to plan the shop. Oh, and regarding lumber and sheet good storage, I knew up front I wouldn't have enough in the shop that I was planning. It remains to be a problem that I have yet to completely solve, the solution will only come after I build my outside workshop/tractor shed/garage/whatever building.

Yeah, I actually knew the lumber storage problems I mentioned early on, but really wanted to get going. I spent a few months planning, but decided to get building and solve later. That later is looming now :cool: .

As far as the DC closet goes ... that was dissapointing. With all the blast gates closed and the DC on, it's pretty quiet. Once I open a blast gate, not so quiet anymore. Still quieter than an open DC, but loud enough that I don't think the effort was worth it. I'd rather have the DC closet as shop space. It'd be the perfect place for a plywood storage rack :eek: .

I do have a large lumber storage rack in my shed. That's why I thought a few simple shelves would be enough in my shop. But, I have a tendency to have one shop project and one furniture project going on at a time and it's not enough to support multiple projects.

Jay

[Donald Hofmann]

My shop is 30 x45. The woodworking part is 30 x 30. I would add a room for finishing, because when something is drying I can't do anything else until I am done with it.
I also hate concrete floors but stand on lots of rubber mats.

[Ken McColly]

I built a 30 x 63 metal building on a slab. Spent 6 months designing it and am satisfied for the most part. However, I made some mistakes:

1. Like Matt my shop is about 4' below sewer grade so I have no restroom. If I had to do it over I would put in pump unit just to have it. Still may do it.

2. I would go with an elevated wood floor so that I could run DC ducting and electrical beneath it. I see no alternative to this. I planned and replanned machinery locations a hundred times and very little of it wound up being in the location as designed. It takes a smarter person than me to predict ideal locations other than by trial and error. No other complaint with a slab floor, although I do have to wear crepe sole boots or my legs/back get to me.

One other suggestion. Plenty of electrical outlets and twice the lighting you think you will need. I did this and have no regrets. I have found that my aging eyes are very appreciative of the additional lighting.

Ken

[Tom Hamilton]

Well you hit nerve, look at the number of responses.

My two cents is after the work flow issues, and machinery placement, storage, think of the creature comforts.

Hot and cold running water, A/C and heat, if necessary, TV, Phone, fridge, stereo, computer, desk (shelf) and stool for planning and thinking.

Size is important of course, but in my 12 X 24 I've most all the above.

Merry Christmas, Tom

[Larry Browning]

Your building must be close and your sewer/septic must be deep. I'd have to pump as the shop sits about 4' lower than the house and the septic is about the same elevation as the house. The other option would be a separate septic system. Matt,
Actually, The shop sits a lot lower than the house, so I had my next door neighbor dig a hole for a 55gal drum septic tank and 2 lateral lines. So far, things are working out great after almost 3 years, not a single problem. I am just about the only one who uses the facilities so it gets very light usage.

[Steve Clardy]

Well I got a head room in my shop also. Super convencience I tell ya. Lol
Had it hooked up last year.
Had to ad a second septic tank to the house, new bath addition, so I tied the shop into it. Already had the stool hookup in the concrete, when I did the shop.
Added sink this year. That really helps out. No shower. No couch. TV not hooked up yet.

[Matt Meiser]

Matt,
Actually, The shop sits a lot lower than the house, so I had my next door neighbor dig a hole for a 55gal drum septic tank and 2 lateral lines. So far, things are working out great after almost 3 years, not a single problem. I am just about the only one who uses the facilities so it gets very light usage.

Is that code? Just wondering if that's all it would take in reality, or in the county health department's version of reality?

[Larry Browning]

Is that code? Just wondering if that's all it would take in reality, or in the county health department's version of reality? Code? We don't need no stinkin code!
Actually, I was told by my builder that if I did it myself I didn't need to get it inspected for such a small install.

[Jim O'Dell]

I wish I could have built mine. Instead, I inherited the building when we bought the house. It is a separate building 20 X 24. I enclosed an existing covered porch (who needs a porch on a shop building?) that is 12 X 14. I will use this for assembly and finishing. It will also have a closet that will house the future air compressor. It has a place framed in for a PTAC to be able to heat/cool that room in the future. The problems I inherited is a very low ceiling...7'7". If I had had the money when I started rehabbing the building last December (have I been working on this for a year now???), I would have taken the roof off, extended the walls to 10', created a loft area over the finishing room for wood storage, and had a vaulted ceiling. As it is, I feel I have to "engineer" special things for the lighting to keep it between the ceiling joists so it doesn't take more of the non-existant headroom. As it is, sheet good storage is going to take some more inventiveness. I have an ideal that may work. At least until I can rehab the 10 X 12 storage shed that is 8' away to the west. (it has a 6' entry door and 6' ceilings. I'm 6'2":( I swear it must have been built by and for little people)
I would have installed some gable wall venting before siding the outside. Probably should have installed some more windows. I put 2 in the finishing room area (one east wall, one south wall), and 5 in the shop area (one north wall, one opposite in south wall, and three form a box bay window for the future SCMS to fit into). If you have a slab floor but want the comfort of a wood floor, that's easy to rectify. I don't have the headroom to make that an option.
As others have said, play with the ideas. Get a program like the PunchHome Series, or something similar. Put the design on paper, so to speak, and do a 3D walk through. I found many "problems" this way with what I was contemplating, as well as ideas from my friends here at SMC. Good luck and remember to reward us with pictures when you get started! Jim

[Daryl Upole]

Hi Hank,

I built mine in stages over three years, but pretty much completed about a year ago. First, I'll tell you what I'm happy I did:

Read a lot!! I purchased 5 or 6 books specifically on designing & building a shop.
Put in on paper with machine layout & all. Has changed - but at least it covered the basics.
10' walls all around and I used scissor trusses in on one section that puts the ceilings at 14' in the center.
I did use 3 skylights in a 24 x 36 section - happy with that.
In that same section, I put boxes for 18 lights - 3 banks (switched) of 6 each. I just put in basic screw-in light fixtures and a Y adapter with 2 100 watt flourescent bulbs in each. So, that's about 3600 watts of light. Not bad - but even more would not hurt.
I put 1" pvc conduit under the slab to have 6 areas in the center that could access and change power any time.
Overall footprint is 36x48. I have 1/2 full story on back with 42" wide stairway going up for easy access storage.
Attached to my garage - ok with that - glad I have a 42" man door in between.
All 36" exterior doors plus one double for a 72" opening.
Provisions for three - 52" ceiling fans each on separate switch - happy with those for heat & cooling.
Brick exterior to match house.
Shopped a lot of surplus - close outs - etc. Saved substantial money there Full bathroom - not hooked up yet - but glad I'll have that with washer/dryer for shop stuff and laundry tub for clean-up.
3 sub panels located strategically for easy changes & modifications. Panels are cheap!!
Power provisions for garage door openers.
Smooth finished slab. The non-shop friends & family all said it was a mistake because it would be slippery when wet. But, makes clean up very easy.
Have coils in slab for future hot water heating system.
Put power underground from home panel to shop 100 amp sub panel.
Put phone & cable tv underground as well. It's very nice having CATV in the shop.

I wish I would have:

DONE IT 20 YEARS AGO - EVEN IF I HAD TO FINANCE IT!!!!! NO ONE SHOULD WAIT!!! NEVER KNOW WHEN OUR LAST DAY WILL BE...
Put a basement under part to access D/C from underneath to have easy-to-modify DC under the shop as well as floor power sources and anything else such as air compressor.
No romex in walls - just all exposed conduit.
No drywall on walls - maybe plywood or something up 8' - maybe drywall on top 2'. Not sure of code on combustible wall surface though - would have to check that.
Maybe even pine ceiling to make easy to attach things to.
I have 2 single overhead doors. One double would be a lot better to get better access in. My brother in law told me that before I built and he was right. Wish I would have listened to that one.
I agree with everyone else - bigger bigger bigger. Mine is bigger than my house and wish it was bigger.
I did not plan on enough material storage - I would add more space (unheated & unfinished) for that.
Run underground air compressor line from shop to basement for air access there.
Run CAT 5 wiring for computer network so I don't have to rely on wireless from the shop.
Provision for wood burner.

I think a key to remember is to plan on always being able to change & be flexible. So, I'd try to make as much exposed and able to modify as possible.

I could go on and on - but I think I hit the main points - let me know if you have any more questions - I'd be glad to help.

[Al Killian]

My new shop is in a building that is 30'x70'x12' on the second floor where the shop will be. This will be a blessing as I can do what I want when I want and dont have to worry about the noise, smells or dust. The current shop is in the basement and a royal pain. I have a resturuant that limits my work time, plus the low ceilings. The space will make easy to get organized and be able to spread out some. Plus I will have plenty of room for wood storage and a seperate areas for the compressor, finishing and assenmbly( not the saw top).

[Bill Wyko]

I'd have made it 3 times the size.:D

[Glenn Clabo]

Well...I wouldn't have those guys build this house first! My shop was an after thought basement idea...35 years later.;)

[Doug Swanson]

Twice as big and twice as tall ?? How are you going to heat this thing?? Those infared heat tube devices that heat items not the air, stay away from those. They are tempting given their cheaper install and lower gas usage but they shrink laminates and affect the fit of joinery and cab. doors after assembled.

Hi Aaron,
I am just about completed putting in a radiant tube heater so I read your comments with some interest...can you go into more detail the issues you've had with this type of heat?

thanks
Doug

[David Duke]

For those of you who haven't noticed, this thread is two years old. Lots of good stuff though.

[Don Robert]

I included most of the things that said that they would do (or did): hot and cold water; detached building; restroom with toilet & shower; 10 ft ceilings; lots of power (200 amp service with 40 circuit breakers); sink in the work area; paint/finishing room; stem wall foundation with concrete pad that is below the top of the stem wall; large, insulated garage doors; small frig; small detail room, single story, but with "attic" roof trusses that gives me a 4 ft wide attic for storing crap (usable even though the roof has a span of 24 feet and a slope of 4 in 12). When I went out to buy the tile for the restroom and detail room floor, my wife nixed the color of tile that I was going to buy with the comment that it would show the dust. So bought a flecked gray tile. She was right, it does not show the dust/dirt, but it also does not show dropped objects like small screws and parts. Pick a floor that shows everything and it will make life easier to find things you drop. I like the suggestion above of putting the wall receptacles above standard height. I wish mine were higher.

[John Durscher]

I'd plan the layout better, but the biggest thing I would do is pick a different house! The house is nice, the location is excellent. However my shop is in the basement and I do not have a walk out basement. I have to haul lumber through the family room to get it to the basement (a few years ago I took a chunk of drywall off the ceiling that I am regularly reminded of). It is also very challenging to get big equipment down the stairs.

John

[Dale Lesak]

If you can plan far enough in advance, in floor DC piping and in floor electrical outlets on GFCI breakers. You can run some extra DC piping and cap off until needed.

[Mark Rios]

For those of you who haven't noticed, this thread is two years old. Lots of good stuff though.



I didn't notice it until about page three but, like you said, it has made for very good and informative reading. :D

No one has mentioned a urinal. I kinda like the idea of a urinal, as well as a toilet.

Dev's idea of a Mill Floor sounds great but I couldn't find his separate thread that he mentions. I wonder what the weight capacity of a Mill Floor is?

Neat thread.

[Earl Reid]

I would have followed my wifes advice and made it bigger, its 24 x 14 It is the biggest out building in the neighborhood and I didn't to cause any problems. I wish it about 20x 30. But I get by. it is heated and AC.
Earl

[Christof Grohs]

I am in the process of putting together a new shop (in an existing building) for myself and a few things I made certain to do different this time around are as follows:

Electrical:
200Amp service
Outlets along wall every 4 feet. Both 110 & 220V
Outlets on ceiling 110/220V twist lock for overhead drops
3-way switched outlets in a few locations
switched outlets on ceiling for air filters

Fire/safety:
Fire rated metal ceiling
Kill switch to my big machines with locks

Lighting:
T8 fluorescent fixtures

I have a 14' ceiling but if my project was new construction I'd go a little lower, say 12', to help a bit with heating. Even with big ceiling fans and 1600cfm air filters, the heat really hugs my ceiling in the winter.

The only other thing I would add is that you design your shop to meet YOUR needs. Hold off on permanent fixtures which define space for a while and work in your room a bit to get a feel for how things flow. Move stuff around and move them again and again, until the space feels right, only then begin to build your storage and permanent fixtures which might limit you. If your shop does not feel right your work will not flow.....like asking Hemingway to type while sitting in a chair.

Enjoy your new space.

[Paul Johnstone]

I'm a year away (hopefully) from constructing my shop and would like to know from those who have built their own shop what you would have done differently. Anything goes! Thanks!

Some small changes that I actually did.. I've moved several times.

1. Cyclone dust collection. I went years without one. I developed an allergy to some kinds of wood dust. Maybe it's not a cause and effect thing, I don't know. Anyhow, the cyclone is so nice. It's not sexy, but I would advise new people to get one sooner rather than later, even if that means putting off that bandsaw purchase.

2. Wall switches for dust collector. Used 3 way and 4 way switches to put switches all over the shop.. Now I can flip a switch and have the DC come on. No more looking for the remote control, or reaching down to turn it on...

3. Nice outfeed table for table saw. I can slide 4 X 8 sheet goods underneath for storage, and it's my worktable as well.

4. Lumber rack. Go to HD, get those heavy duty shelving things and get all that wood off the floor.. Again, I went years walking around piles of wood.

5. Larger surface for router table. My first was only 24" long. That makes it difficult to do some longer pieces.

6. I wish I had grabbed more space in the basement when I first walled off the shop as well.

7. Be careful about overcommitting on house remodeling and other projects. That steals time from woodworking, family time, and other things that are much more enjoyable.

8. Stay away from Harbor Freight. Sure, there's some things there that are ok, but I wasted far more money than I saved there.

9. Don't spend too much time on the shop doing drywall, etc and other aestetic things.. Again, this eats up a lot of time. In my case, I fixed up one shop to look awesome, but then I ended up moving.. I could've spent all that remodeling time doing woodworking instead of drywall/flooring..

[Walt Nicholson]

When I finally got to build my "dream shop", getting as much room as possible in a limited budget was the priority. In our area pole buildings are much less expensive than "stick" built. Since this is a weekend and evening shop and not one I make my living in, I felt that using the funds I had for room versus under floor heat, vac. etc. made more sense for me. The pictures were taken last year just as it was finished and I had started moving in. The shop is 30' by 50' and is sided to match the house (love those local CCRs). It is 16' to the bottom of the trusses and they are clear span so there are no support posts, just clear open space from wall to wall. The garage door is 14' high. I have a 220V hanging electric heater with a fan (dry heat, no flame) and thermostat and a large commercial ceiling fan to push the heat down. Last winter 60-70 inside versus 10-20 ouside was not terribly expensive. Since the pictures were taken, I have insulated all of it and drywalled most of it. As time and budget permits, I plan to build a large room in one corner for compressor, DC, etc. With 8' walls I can deck the top for storage and still have almost 8' headroom on top. If I should ever have to sell the house, the tall door and ceilings help resale for someone that wants to store a large motorhome. At this point I am glad I used my budget for room, it really fills up fast. Take your time and consider all the great advice from the guys in this forum. They have some great points. Just noticed this thread started in 2005, oh well.

[Gene Michael]

Used to have a 30 X 36 foot shop with a storage loft. After two moves, I'm now in one side of a garage (12' x 20') and constantly tripping over everything. Now that the retirement home is 90% done, am dreaming of a new shop. Musts:

plenty of storage
an assembly room that's free from most of the wood debris
a separate paint/finishing room
built in storage for sheet wood, lumber and trim
9' drop ceilings with recessed lights that won't collect dust
a combo work station using the same supports for wood being cut on the miter saw, the radial saw and resawing on the band saw
plenty of storage
a dust collection system with the power unit in a sound deadening area, like under the stairs and fully enclosed
enough outlets to be able to move the tools around
plenty of storageDreaming about this stuff is almost as much fun as woodworking!

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Woulda shoulda

3 phase
DC in the concrete DC blower out side
Geo thermal Heat in the concrete
Bigger taller heavier
Shop Crane
Dedicated Spray booth with 1 micron incoming air filtration
Bathroom
Utility Sink
Refrigerator for beer and epoxies.
Air strip out back

[David Freed]

I built my shop smaller than I wanted, but designed it to be able to expand easily. I built a 16'x48' addition first before building the 40'x48' main building. By using 3 - 16' headers, (designed to carry the entire roof load), I can add the main building and only have 2 support posts between the main building and the addition. I did it this way to minimize initial expense yet be able to expand quickly and easily when I need to.

[Ben Grunow]

I wish I had bought or made an air filter in addition to my cyclone DC to help with airborne dust from routing and sanding.

I enjoy not having to move machines as I spent a lotof time planning the location of windows and doors so they lined up with ts outfeed and cs station sides so long boards can go out the window instead of hit the walls. It is nice to be able to square the end of a 16' piece of lumber with the cs.

My concrete floor wears on me a little and the rubber pads make cleaning a bit of a chore so a wood floor would be better for me.

Ben