Problem with low angle block planes

[Corey Rebette]

I'm having rouble setting up my 60 1/2 and 9 1/2 planes.im using the versions with the ribbed iron bottoms. Basically, I can't get the blade angle high enough to get the bevel through the mouth. Or, one in a while when I do, the blade protrudes fully through the mouth asking the plane useless. These are "new" used planes for me, my old one didn't have this problem, so might it be the blades? Everything else seems to be in order. Very frustrating as I've got four of these to restore and can't get them to work becsude the angle is too darn lw.

[Bill Dufour]

Sounds like the cap iron is too far forward.
Bill D

[Mike Kees]

Corey just a guess here, but you do know that block planes are supposed to have the blades installed with the bevel side "up". Bench planes are the opposite with a chipbreaker installed on the "back "side of the blade and the bevel"down".

[Bradley Gray]

Remove the blade/chip-breaker/cap and loosen the screws that hold the frog in place and re-position it.

[Tom M King]

Bevel up on the low angle 60-1/2? Only the 60-1/2 is a low angle. The 9-1/2 is not, but the iron still goes in the same way.

The cap only has one possible position. There were two different patterns for the grooves in the irons. Are these irons the original, or correct ones for your planes?

The mouths are adjustable on these planes. They don't have adjustable frogs.

Edited to add: Do your planes have the part that engages the grooves in the irons?

[Derek Cohen]

These block planes do not have chip breakers.

Your blade is upside down. They should be inserted bevel up.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Corey, Welcome to the Creek. It sounds like everyone else has already answered what is the likely problem with your block planes.

At one time anything with the blade bevel down was called a block plane. Times have changed a little.

Here is an old post of mine on low angle block planes > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?123401

jtk

[Stewie Simpson]

At one time anything with the blade bevel down was called a block plane. Times have changed a little.

That's not a correct statement Jim.

[Rob Luter]

And we’re off.....

[Jim Koepke]

At one time anything with the blade bevel down was called a block plane.

jtk


That's not a correct statement Jim.

You are right Stewie, my error. It should have been planes with their bevels up were often referred to as block planes. Whether or not that is a correct determinator of what is or isn't a block plane is a different matter.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Show and tell time: Happen to have 2 Stanley No. 60-1/2...one in the OEM box..
421284421285
So..take it out of the box
421286
It's called Cordovan...anyway...take the cap iron off..
421287
And this is what it is supposed to look like...if it looks like..
421288
It is wrong. The notches engage 2 prawls...
421289
So you can adjust the depth of cut.
421290
When set up correctly....( at least the other one of mine is sharp)
And that is how one of these block planes is set up....bevel goes up, slots/grooves go down.
Simple?

[Tony Zaffuto]

Show and tell time: Happen to have 2 Stanley No. 60-1/2...one in the OEM box..
421284421285
So..take it out of the box
421286
It's called Cordovan...anyway...take the cap iron off..
421287
And this is what it is supposed to look like...if it looks like..
421288
It is wrong. The notches engage 2 prawls...
421289
So you can adjust the depth of cut.
421290
When set up correctly....( at least the other one of mine is sharp)
And that is how one of these block planes is set up....bevel goes up, slots/grooves go down.
Simple?

Excellent show and tell Bandit! Many of us with most of our life take too much for granted, having done this for decades, but a quick "show and tell" by you for the OP, succinctly answers his/her question.

[Tom M King]

I'm still using a pair of those Cordovan ones that I bought new. Later models have fewer, and larger grooves under the iron. The two types of irons are not interchangeable in the different year planes, even though they have the same model numbers.

edited to add: the picture on this page shows the differences in the two types of iron slots, and adjuster engagement grooves:
https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/hockblockplaneiron1-38hc716slot.aspx

[Corey Rebette]

Corey just a guess here, but you do know that block planes are supposed to have the blades installed with the bevel side "up". Bench planes are the opposite with a chipbreaker installed on the "back "side of the blade and the bevel"down".

Yes, aware of that distinction. Thanks.

[Corey Rebette]

These block planes do not have chip breakers.

Your blade is upside down. They should be inserted bevel up.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Correct. My iron is inserted bevel up. The seats for the blades are original and intact. Blades are either original or suitable replacements based on size and advancement corrugation.

[Corey Rebette]

Show and tell time: Happen to have 2 Stanley No. 60-1/2...one in the OEM box..
421284421285
So..take it out of the box
421286
It's called Cordovan...anyway...take the cap iron off..
421287
And this is what it is supposed to look like...if it looks like..
421288
It is wrong. The notches engage 2 prawls...
421289
So you can adjust the depth of cut.
421290
When set up correctly....( at least the other one of mine is sharp)
And that is how one of these block planes is set up....bevel goes up, slots/grooves go down.
Simple?
Thank you for your welcome to th forum. I've got everything g set up as per advice (after all, there's only one way to seat the blade so it matches up with the seating mechanism. And my other 60 1/2 and 9 1/2s are setup and tuned great and are among my go-to hand tools. That's why I can't figure out what's going on with these. I may buy a Hock iron for each so I'll know at least I'm working with a correct set. But the irons I have match my working ands. Could it be the honing angle? Both are roughly 30 degrees...

[Tom M King]

30 should be giving plenty of room. I replaced one of my irons with a Hock iron, and while it works just fine, square upper corners are a terrible idea for these block planes, and I wouldn't have bought it if I had put more thought into it.

Anything unusual looking about the front, movable parts of the sole?

[Jim Koepke]

Corey, it might help if you could post your location. If you are in the Pacific Northwest you would be welcome to my in person help. If you are in another area there is likely someone else willing to help you.

If you were a contributor, $6 a year, you could post images that might also help.

The low angle block planes and some others have a two step depth adjusting screw. If it was installed incorrectly that may also cause your problem. If it is totally disassembled, the way to put it back together is to just barely start the second part of the threads on the moving part that rides on the frog (pedestal) then start the threads into the pedestal. If the blade is close to full length, then the first slot closest to the bevel end of the blade should set on the bumps on the sliding adjuster plate.

It is easier to show this with pictures. Hopefully my description helps.

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

Corey, you could compare/exchange parts of your functional planes with the ones giving you trouble and figure out where the problem lies.

Cheers,
Rafael

[Corey Rebette]

Thanks. Mine looks exactly like the photos. And I just can't get the blade at an angle where it will cut. The blade will go through the mouth (I may need to open up the mouth) but at an angle that the plane just glides on the wood rather than cutting it. I have tried everything.

I do have one that works. It must be a later model because it's clean blue and has a 60P sticker still on it. It has a single rib on the seating mechanism and 5 through holes in place the the indentations I've got on the undersides of my other 60 1/2s. This plane works great. And when I transfer the blade to my other 60 1/2s, they work great, too.

Problem is that I have a few of these planes that I've cleaned up to to sell and don't feel right selling a plane that that I can't set up even though others with the same parts seem to be able to.

I hate not knowing what I'm doing wrong. Ugh!

[Corey Rebette]

Tom, yes, the seating mechanism (for lack of a proper term) is present and functional, looks like the photo posted. Tnx.

[Corey Rebette]

421363. 421364
My inartful attempt at showing how I can't get the iron through the mouth at an angle that will cut. I should have taken a photo showing bevel facing downward but trust me on that. It's the only way to engage the advance mechanism.

[Tom M King]

There looks to be a pretty severe back bevel on that iron. Also, is the adjustable front part of the sole flush with the back part?

[Alan Schwabacher]

The back bevel looks to me the problem. Try one of the blades from your other 60 1/2, and it likely will work.

[Jim Koepke]

The adjuster plate is all the way forward. Turn the adjuster counter clockwise a bit to back off the blade.

If there isn't a pin in the mouth adjuster harp, you may be able to find a nail of the right size to replace it.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

The adjuster plate is all the way forward. Turn the adjuster counter clockwise a bit to back off the blade.

If there isn't a pin in the mouth adjuster harp, you may be able to find a nail of the right size to replace it.

jtk

I was thinking the same thing Jim-adjuster needs adjusted!

[Rob Luter]

The adjuster plate is all the way forward. Turn the adjuster counter clockwise a bit to back off the blade.

If there isn't a pin in the mouth adjuster harp, you may be able to find a nail of the right size to replace it.

jtk

Bingo! I've had this happen before after a complete teardown and restoration on an old #65.

[Tom M King]

Be careful of the threads on the adjuster. It looks like this might be one that has been dropped on the adjuster knob, since the rod is bent. I bought an old one like this, and the threads were ruined in the plane body. New adjusters are metric threads. I bought a replacement knob, and rod, and tapped the threads out to fit the metric rod.

[steven c newman]

Ok...before we go all out on this...

1). Grind a new single bevel on the iron.....no back bevels. Some call for a 25 degree, some call for a 30 degree bevel.

2). Remove the movable toe plate....and clean the mating surfaces. Sometimes crud get lodged between the two. Doesn't take much to lift the toe plate a tiny bit. Sometimes, it will even rock a bit, or one edge will sit higher than the other. Brass wire brush, and a spritz of WD40.....make sure it is all clean and shiny in there.
3). have had a couple block planes come through the shop, where there is a spot of rust/crud, or a chip of a splinter between the iron and the bed it was sitting on....had one that would screech and chirp when it was being used.....had a sliver of wood lifting the edge up a hair....letting the iron vibrate.

4). be careful IF you go about tapping new threads.....sometimes the cast iron will crack. DAMHIKT....

Just try a simple, single bevel....notice when you flatten the back, IF there is a line across right where the iron sat on the bed....erase that line. With the single bevel sharpened up, and the toe plate cleaned and flush with the sole....run the plate all the way out, THEN adjust back. Adjust until you find that spot where it works the best.