cut down kinked panel saw?

[tim rapp]

I have a kinked 22" 10 PPI Disston skew back saw, looks to be a 1903-1922 D100 or 1928-ish D-112 or maybe a late D12. Handle is original AFAIK but doesn't match any photos I've seen in the usual Disston websites. Teeth sharpened up real well. Kinks are about 6" from toe. Given that this is a relatively fine tooth but kinked saw I don't see how the plate will every produce accurate/smooth results. I have a 26" #12 10 PPI that leaves a real smooth surface, but too long for bench use. Also I want a vintage Disston (or similar) bench saw (~ 16"), but those are in real short supply, basically none to be had. So thinking of cutting down the 22" saw to about 16". Any thoughts on how it will perform and how to cut it down and so on?

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Timmy and welcome to the Creek.

My first thought on reading the subject line of your post was to think about how bad the kink and ways to correct the problem.

My first reply was to post this link > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805

It is an archive of past posts and has information on rehabbing old saws.

It seems you are more interested in making a shorter saw.

The shorter Disston saws are often sought by people trying to reassemble an antique tool kit from their youth. In the middle of the 20th century these were a popular gift for young boys.

The method of cutting the saw plate depends on what you have available. A shear press in a machine shop would be wonderful if available. Of course if you had one available you wouldn't be asking.

If you have a Dremel tool one (or a few) of the small cutting wheels can do the job.

Filing would take some time but is feasible.

Save the cut off pieces. They can be used to make scrapers and other useful tools.

One of my marking knives is made from a piece of saw blade:

421037

The saw may be awkward to use due to the height of the plate. It will likely do a decent job until you find a few back saws to do the job.

If you haven't done so already, you will likely want to make a few sets of bench hooks:

421038

A bench hook can help to prevent accidents with a saw to the bench top.

jtk

[Frank Pratt]

If you have any interest in keeping that old saw intact, a kink can be taken out by judicious use of a hammer & anvil

[tim rapp]

Thanks Jim. I had read the posts on fixing a plate but 1) don't have an anvil, 2) don't have experience fixing kinks so my results would be far below yours i suspect, 3) a friend tried to fix the kink by hammering, its better but not sure if he did it "the right way" may have added some problems, 4) handle has some damage and only tiny bit of etch visible so saw will never be worth more than $75 i'd guess. I've seen before/after picks of kinked saws and they rarely are arrow straight afterwards. Not opposed to the idea, just seems like a timely process for a newbie and suspect i won't be happy with the results.

I have a veritas back saw and a bow saw but when trying to crosscut 8"+ wide boards can't keep saw at 45 degree angle.

Jim -- I couldn't view your pics. Are those just for contributors? or is it a permission problem? Also I go by Tim but when I first tried to register it failed so the second time around had to go with timmy instead of tim. Registration process on this site is, uh, interesting.

metal cutting tools i have: hacksaw, angle grinder with cut-off wheel (could make jig to hold it straight), plus assorted files.

[Jim Koepke]

Tim, To see images one does have to be a contributor, $6 a year. This is something that often slips my mind. It used to be non-contributing members could view images.

There may be another Tim Rapp registered on SMC. Others have tacked on a 'II' or a city to their name to get around that. Now that you are registered, it may be possible to change your name designation.

A few of my back saws are 26" saws from miter boxes. They come in handy when cutting the big stuff on top of the bench:

421039

Even knowing you can not presently view this image, it will be here if you do become a contributor in the future. It will also be here for others looking for answers for as long as SMC is on line.

jtk

[Warren Mickley]

I have used Disston saws for over fifty years, but never heard the term "bench saw" before. I think that the reason that short saws without backs are in short supply is that nobody bought them, not very useful. If you are trying to crosscut an 8" wide board, you want to put the board on trestles or sawing bench, not your work bench., and use your 26" saw. Or use a bench hook and a back saw.

[tim rapp]

Warren Mickley (https://sawmillcreek.org/member.php?117006-Warren-Mickley), dunno, Paul Sellers uses the term and loves his shorter crosscut saws, so maybe its a UK thing?
I have a small work area, my sawhorses live outside, so unless I have a lot of boards to saw I do it at the bench.

[Jim Matthews]

I'm no expert, but most of the saws I use have teeth at either extreme that never engage wood. Given my stature, and length of my arms, saws longer than 22" hit the floor at my sawbench and wander when used above waist high.

If you're doing this as a hobby (which is most of us) - go with what works for you.

I recommend our own Mike Allen to provide the finest examples of what you're after - and his saws will be ready to use. If you're willing to buy from a new maker, Connie Raub is another straight shooter.

[Stewie Simpson]

Connie Raub is another straight shooter.

Jim; pardon me for having a different perspective on your classification of a straight shooter. :mad:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Disston-8-Undocumented-Open-Handle-Very-Rare-16-PPI-X-Cut-Sharpened-1203/153719047907?hash=item23ca5e86e3:g:eI4AAOSwgYpdYwi B

[Jim Matthews]

Jim; pardon me for having a different perspective on your classification of a straight shooter. :mad:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Disston-8-Undocumented-Open-Handle-Very-Rare-16-PPI-X-Cut-Sharpened-1203/153719047907?hash=item23ca5e86e3:g:eI4AAOSwgYpdYwi B

Perhaps you didn't read my response, closely.
"If you're willing to buy from a NEW maker..."

Connor is making saws that fit the OP's requirements *and* filling new orders.

If you're offering to help a beginner - chime in.

[chris carter]

I took the kinks out of two saws just using my hands and a bench vise. It didn't take too long.

[steven c newman]

OK, IF one happens to have a large sledge hammer.....place it in a vise.....and use a face of the hammer as an anvil......You are not being a Blacksmith, you are just "tapping" with a smaller hammer, letting the weight of it drop onto the saw plate, that is sitting in contact with the "anvil". "Tap" until the kink is flattened out, finish up with a few taps on the non-kinked side, to even things out. Wear earplugs, as the "ringing" can get to ya, after a while.

[Jim Koepke]

There are a lot of things that can be used as an anvil. A sledge will have a hardened face, which could be a problem if struck with another hardened tool. For light work it may suffice if one is careful. A splitting maul or wedge will be made of softer metal as they are made to be struck.

For my anvil needs, it has always been a piece of old railroad track. They used to be easy to acquire when local track work was being done.

Found this one at a yard sale for about $3:

421103

It is mounted on a hunk of tree trunk in my shop.

A shorter unfinished piece of track is used for portable work. That one was found laying by a railroad line back in ~1970.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Reason being...saw plate is between the sledge hammer's head, and the ball pean hammer. You are not being a Blacksmith when hammer forming. More of a tap, tap, tap, letting the weight of the BB hammer alone do the work. IF one felt they needed a full force, overhand strike.....I'd place the saw plate on the wooden bench top.

Anvil would be nice, but is not needed.

Trying to straighten a kink out by bending the plate....not that good of an idea....too good of a chance to SNAP the plate.....

[Kurtis Johnson]

I took the kinks out of two saws just using my hands and a bench vise. It didn't take too long. I used to do this too. However, beware that bends and slight kinks can be hidden only for a time by re-bending and hand manipulating. It’s not a true straightening, only cosmetic. Take the Bob Smalser challenge and bend those saw plates in tight bows and you are likely to see those bends simply reappear.

[Kurtis Johnson]

Reason being...saw plate is between the sledge hammer's head, and the ball pean hammer. You are not being a Blacksmith when hammer forming. More of a tap, tap, tap, letting the weight of the BB hammer alone do the work.No offense, Steve, but using a ball peen hammer is bad advice. Please use a slightly rounded faced hammer head. A ball peen pin points too much on a very small area and will mar the heck out of a saw plate.

[steven c newman]

Use the other half of the Ball Pean Hammer's head......NOT the "ball" end...works much better....

[Kurtis Johnson]

Use the other half of the Ball Pean Hammer's head......NOT the "ball" end...works much better....Ah, there we go. In fact that’s one of the hammers I use. Thanks for the clarification Steven.

[tim rapp]

Jim Koepke (https://sawmillcreek.org/member.php?23302-Jim-Koepke) and others, thanks for all the info. Took a long hard look at the saw, decided to fix rather than cut. Going to look for an anvil or maybe use hardwood block. Will try to post before/after pics and info. Won't be this month, that much I can promise!