Table Saw Upgrade Advise

[Mike Burke]

Asking for advise/suggestions/thoughts about upgrading my table saw

I have had my Powermatic Artisin contractors table saw for 30 yrs. It's been a good saw for the most part
but I am wanting to upgrade to something better.

I have my small shop in my basement. It's just a hobby for me. I do have dust collection system set up for my machines.
There is 220v but its for my dust collector.
So looking for a 110v ready saw
I don't need a 600 lb , $3000.00 table saw. And Its going to be struggle getting it down the basement anyway.

Here is what I am thinking about doing and just thought I would ask your thoughts.

Selling my Powermatic
have two guys interested
(its listed in the classifieds here)

Then buying a Grizzly GO771Z
from all the reading I have done about it sounds like a pretty good Hybrid table saw
It fits in my budget, size restrictions , and its 110v ready.

Thanks for your input

[Jack Frederick]

Can't offer advice on your saw choice and don't mean to muddy the waters but, here goes;) Would it make sense to look at converting your DC to 110 and take the 220 for the saw? I have a Grizzly DC and it came 110v. I converted it to 220.

[Matt Day]

Going from the PM Artisan saw to a hybrid isnt going to be a huge upgrade I don’t think. Moving a Unisaw or PM66 or G1023 down stairs isn’t hard with 2 average strength guys and a hand truck. Take the top off.

So I’d suggest getting a true cabinet saw and figuring out the 220V. Add a circuit, if you use the DC with the TS.

[Mike Burke]

Guess I could do that for my dust collector.
Then I would be looking at a 220 v hybrid saw for another 100+ dollars.
Then what saw would be worthwhile?

[Matt Day]

Not a hybrid saw. A 3hp cabinet saw if you’re buying new, or an older 1.5hp+ saw like an older Uni or PM66.

[andy bessette]

Going from the PM Artisan saw to a hybrid isnt going to be a huge upgrade I don’t think. Moving a Unisaw or PM66 or G1023 down stairs isn’t hard with 2 average strength guys and a hand truck. Take the top off.

So I’d suggest getting a true cabinet saw and figuring out the 220V. Add a circuit, if you use the DC with the TS.

This. Avoid the Grizzly. Find a Unisaw or PM66 in excellent condition and partially disassemble it to get it into the basement.

[Mike Burke]

Well
I just sold my Powermatic table saw. I had it for thirty years and sold it for $150 less than I bought it brand new for.

So now I am table saw less. That's a strange felling

So now I need to start looking. I'll have to get lucky to find a PM66 or Unisaw at a good price.
I think I could handle a $1500.00 budget. So know I am leaning toward a true cabinet saw I guess.

I have read quite a few good reviews about the G1023 though. I thought Grizzly was liked around here ? Guess not.

[Bill Dufour]

You say you have 240 volts. How many amps? No reason you can not run two machines from one supply. If you have 40 amps or more just install a sub panel in the shop. It is probably easier to pull a new bigger cable then to haul heavy saws and dust collectors up and down the stairs.
If I was pulling a new cable I would size it for 50 amps or more. If you are a cheapskate like me watch c-list for used wire and panels.
Bill D.

[Matt Day]

Lots of people like Grizzly, just not Andy ;-)

He likes American old iron, as I do, but Grizzly makes good stuff too.

[Lisa Starr]

I've had my Grizzly G1023Z for 15+ years I think and it has been fantastic. I had the "upgrade" fence which I fought with for years, so don't go there. With a regular Biesmeyer style fence, it would have been wonderful. I went with a VSCT fence with rails I made about a year ago and couldn't be happier. With the top off the saw, you'll be able to get it into the basement without too much of a fight.

[Mike Kees]

I have owned and used Unisaws for 25 years or so. That being said I would not hesitate to buy other cabinet saws. PM,Canadian made General,and yes even Grizzly. One of my ex-employees bought one and it is a real nice saw (1023) as good or better than a Unisaw.

[David Utterback]

I also suggest being a bit patient and finding a good used saw. I just sold my PM 66 which was replaced with a Sawstop PCS. There seems to be a ready supply of used 66's and uni's in Cincinnati at least. One in really good shape can be found for less than $1500 and often in the $1000 range. Good luck

[Mark Daily]

I've had my Grizzly G1023Z for 15+ years I think and it has been fantastic. I had the "upgrade" fence which I fought with for years, so don't go there. With a regular Biesmeyer style fence, it would have been wonderful. I went with a VSCT fence with rails I made about a year ago and couldn't be happier. With the top off the saw, you'll be able to get it into the basement without too much of a fight.
Me too, except I got the “standard” fence which has been fantastic. I think the Grizzly you are looking at would be an excellent choice and worthwhile upgrade. It has 2 HP vs 1.5, and a completely enclosed cabinet which should help with dust collection. A 3 HP motor is great for cutting thick hardwoods but isn’t a necessity for occasional use as you describe.

[Mike Burke]

Thanks for the suggestions. I’m not real comfortable buying a used saw that might be 25 yrs old. But I do understand that those good ol saws last forever. But it might be hard to find parts if it ever came to that.
I have been eyeing up the Grizzly 1023. It’s a huge upgrade from a contractor saw and it checks a lot of my box’s.
price
power
dust collection
performance

I think it would be all I need for the next 20 yrs.

[glenn bradley]

Well
I just sold my Powermatic table saw. I had it for thirty years and sold it for $150 less than I bought it brand new for.

So now I am table saw less. That's a strange felling

So now I need to start looking. I'll have to get lucky to find a PM66 or Unisaw at a good price.
I think I could handle a $1500.00 budget. So know I am leaning toward a true cabinet saw I guess.

I have read quite a few good reviews about the G1023 though. I thought Grizzly was liked around here ? Guess not.

You can find a person or group of people who dislike any brand. You have had good luck with your PM but, others have posted long-running nightmares with them. Same for Jet, Grizzly, Laguna, even Hammer and Mini Max. Setting that knee-jerk prejudice aside, there are quite a few decent offering in the hybrid and entry level cab-saw arena right now.

If you can go to 240v the Grizzly 1023 has a long and loyal following. It is at the top of your budget but, is probably the best bang for the buck. The smaller footprint of a cab-saw is always nice for people moving from a rear motor contractor saw. Certainly a heavier-duty, 3HP saw will probably last you the rest of your life. I made do with a 1.75 HP hybrid for quite awhile and wold probably still be using it had not a windfall wandered by.

Something like the Laguna Fusion, the Jet ProShop or the Griz 771 would save you up to $500 but, each makes concessions to come in at that price point. List out the top 3 - 5 things that you really want out of your new saw. This will help you narrow it down. For example, if a commercial quality T-fence is in your top 3, the Jet may win out over the Grizzly. If the mass of cast iron wings is high on your list, the Laguna will be wanting. These are just examples, not meant to be arguing points :)

[Patrick Kane]

Cabinet saws are pretty easy to move if you break them down into pieces. Motor will weigh 50lbs+/-, main table will weight 50-75lbs+/-, extensions are 25lbs a piece, and then you need to move the cabinet and trunnions, which are another 75-100lbs. All told, they break down into manageable pieces that two moderately-able people can move with ease and safety. If you are fit, you can move it yourself without a problem. IF you buy used, breaking it down to move it will be something you want to do anyways to clean, lube, and replace parts. Motors, bearings, belts, and switches are all pretty standard and interchangeable. As far as other parts, i could have paid $200 for a new arbor for a 90s unisaw i worked on once with jacked up threads. Instead,i took it to a local machinist and he made the threads good as new for $20 while i stood there and watched. Cabinet saws are the easiest machine in the world to work on and buy. Stuff becomes tricky when you get into rehabbing a T-75 to pristine condition or basically anything Darcy works on. My days of buying a used cabinet saw are over, but i worked on 3-4 unisaws and two powermatic 72s and they were all cheap, easy, and great users.

[Andrew Seemann]

Lots of people like Grizzly, just not Andy ;-)

He likes American old iron, as I do, but Grizzly makes good stuff too.

And don't forget that even the "Made In USA" Unisaws had Chinese castings on various recent models, somewhere around B&D time.

[Bill Dufour]

AFAIK The Unisaw is the only saw that uses a custom motor mount. The Delta 12/14 does not. All the other contractor and cabinet saws use a standard motor which is cheaper to upgrade or replace.
Of course this does not apply to weird hybrid and direct drive saws.
Bill D

[Mike Kees]

Bill the Grizzly that is a direct copy of a Unisaw uses the same motor with the welded on Wings,this motor has been used as a replacement on Unisaws by some people.

[Patrick Kane]

Leeson and Baldor make the unisaw motor mount. Honestly, the c frame of the powermatic isnt particularly easy/cheap to come by either.

[Bill Dufour]

The unisaw mount is pretty easy to make using large angle iron bolted to a standard foot mount motor. I think I lost about 1/4" in cutting height by doing so.
Bil lD

[Mike Burke]

Well I have been researching for a few days and just thought about trying to get a saw local and maybe eliminate the shipping wow's that most people have.
Shop fox saws are the same as Grizzly...right ? Well almost.
I have a couple places local that have shop fox or could get them.
Whats your thought about trying to getting a Shop Fox local ?
Grizzly 1023
Shop Fox w1677

Grizzly go690
Shop Fox w1819

The same saw but different color and sold through dealers ?
I understand I would have sales tax, which I would online also.
Might pay a little extra for the convenience but it might be worth it.

[andy bessette]

...Shop fox saws are the same as Grizzly...right ?...

In a manner of speaking.
Unisaw and PM66 are considered second tier. Shop Fox and Grizzly are considered third tier.

[Roger Feeley]

I had a PM 63 that I had upgraded with a Vega utility fence and a Delta Uniguard. My biggest complaint was that the trunion is bolted to the table which makes alignment difficult at best. Once it was aligned it stayed put, though. When we moved it to a new house, the thing got out of alignment and I had to draft my wife to spend a couple of hours while I tapped and fussed and cussed.

I think the PM was considered a sort of high end contractor saw.

I finally upgraded to a 240v 3hp Sawstop ICS and never looked back. That thing has been a joy.

[Jim Becker]

Roger, if it was a contractors' style saw, that would indeed have the table connected to the trunnion. While that makes for more difficult alignment maintenance, it potentially makes for more stable alignment if the tool is moved around as would be the case with a "contractor" moving job sites. (The little, portable saws we have today were not so prevalent a long time ago) With the guts fastened to the table, if you bump the table, (or the short cabinet below) the table and the "guts" are still one unit. (if you drop it out of the back of a truck, all bets are off, however.... ;) ) Cabinet saws are much easier to do the alignment since the table is independent of the "guts" and in general, cabinet saws don't do much traveling.

That, by the way, is "my" theory and may very well be hog-wash. :D

[Mike Burke]

My biggest complaint was that the trunion is bolted to the table which makes alignment difficult at best.

That's why I sold my PM 63. It was a real pain to adjust the trunions. I had to do it a few times and it was near impossible to get right.
I am looking at cabinet saws also
Just not sure what to do at this point.
New budget cabinet saw (1500.00)
or
look for a decent used saw. I'm not that advanced to rebuild a old iron one so I will need a plug n play mostly.
I'm looking :-)

[andy bessette]

...I'm not that advanced to rebuild a old iron one...

Avoid anything that requires rebuilding. Watch for quality equipment in excellent condition.

[Mike Kreinhop]

Cabinet saws are pretty easy to move if you break them down into pieces.

Sliders are easy to move if broken down. This is my Minimax SC2 Classic waiting to be moved downstairs to my basement. The vendor delivered the saw to my garage partially assembled because I told them it was going to be moved to the basement. The sliding table, outfeed table, side table, fence, and dust shroud were delivered separately. The main chassis was intact, but four relatively strong men could not maneuver it from the garage to the back porch. After separating the major components, two people moved each section down the stairs with ease. The concrete counterweight was the heaviest piece, followed by the table and motor assembly.


https://live.staticflickr.com/4444/37301169340_3dd8a7c7e5_c.jpg


This is a section of the stairs to the basement. The plywood shown is smaller than what I used, but the original piece covered each of the three supports and one of the treads. I used these for the few items that had to be chain hoisted down the stairs. The chain hoist was fitted on the stair treads going to the upper floor and it was easy to walk the heaviest items down a few steps, reposition the chain hoist, and repeat.


https://live.staticflickr.com/1867/43995662754_30ab24dd45_c.jpg


Assembled, commissioned, and ready for work.


https://live.staticflickr.com/4466/37198089564_c30f3078bc_c.jpg

[Roger Feeley]

I'm just guessing about the OP saw being a PM63. he said Artisan and as I remember my old PM63 was in their artisan line.
My experience with the PM63 probably doesn't contradict your comment. We will never know what sort of abuse the saw suffered in being moved from my old shop to the new one. All I can say is that I had to re-align the trunion to the miter slots and it was a real struggle. Once it was done, I don't remember ever revisiting alignment. When I sold the saw, I got an email from the buyer who was very pleased with the alignment. I had warned him about the alignment and told him to be very careful.

[Mike Kees]

Seems like this has gotten a little off track here... To the OP as AFAIK Grizzly are Green and Shop Fox are white,but other than that the same stuff, one direct and the other sold by dealers.Being able to see and touch machines is something I prefer. Probably why I like buying used so much,you know exactly what you are getting.

[Mark Daily]

Well I have been researching for a few days and just thought about trying to get a saw local and maybe eliminate the shipping wow's that most people have.
Shop fox saws are the same as Grizzly...right ? Well almost.
I have a couple places local that have shop fox or could get them.
Whats your thought about trying to getting a Shop Fox local ?
Grizzly 1023
Shop Fox w1677

Grizzly go690
Shop Fox w1819

The same saw but different color and sold through dealers ?
I understand I would have sales tax, which I would online also.
Might pay a little extra for the convenience but it might be worth it.
I’ve had several machines shipped to me from Grizzly and never had any problems. A truck pulls up in front of my house and unloads it and that’s it. Of course there is the shipping charge which you can avoid if buying local and you have a vehicle that can handle what you’re buying.

[Mike Burke]

Hello,
Thought I would drop back in and update my table saw progress
I decided to go with the Grizzly G0690
Bought it on sale a week ago. Ordered it on Monday and received it on Wednesday. Shipping was great and no damage.
Hauled it home and moved it downstairs on a utility cart. That worked great.
Assembly went good , no missing parts and everything fit perfect.
I could go on but no need to.
I have been impressed so far and its a HUGE upgrade from my contractors saw.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions
421609

[Rick Potter]

Very nice. That should last a while.