Why don't people buy Panel Saws

[Keith Outten]

I rarely see anyone here discuss panel saws. I own one and have found it to be a great way to break down sheet goods, especially 12 foot long Corian sheets. It's also the reason that I have stopped using my table saw since the panel saw and band saw have been doing all of the work in my sign shop for the last few years. A panel saw does take up a lot of wall space but almost no floor space which seems to be the most valuable in most work shops. My only complaint is that I wish my panel saw was computer controlled :)

[Lee Schierer]

In my case there would be two reasons not to own one. First, I really don't have the space it would need to be set up. Second, I don't do that much work with panels that would justify the money and space it would take.

I think a panel saw would be more useful i it could also do rip cuts on the length of a panel.

[Mike Cutler]

Keith

It's the cost versus benefit for me.
I don't do enough work with sheet goods to justify. Actually, if I never had to cut another piece of plywood, or MDF, in my life, that would be just fine with me.
I've also watched the threads on track saws and wondered why some of the folks don't have panel saws. Every cabinet maker I know that makes their living at it, has a panel saw in their shop. I don't know a single cabinet maker that doesn't have one. They are expensive for a quality model from what friends have told me, but these guys cut will cut more sheet stock in a week than I will in 20 years.
Generally, when I do have a project that involves sheet goods, I have a "basic cut list" and have the plywood cut down at the lumber yard, or at Home Depot if it's just for some cheap project with their junky plywood.

[Patrick Walsh]

Well I’m a cabinet maker.

I work in a shop without a panel saw. But you know we are a small shop. I know of many small shops that don’t use them. On the flip side my shop mate seems to have a Woody for one over a slider.

Personally if I could have one of everything I guess I’d have one. But you know I see a slider as a multi purposed machine that does the same thing as a panel saw.

Having never used one maybe I’m just not in the know.

I agree if I never cut another piece of plywood again I’d be just fine with that. I hate the stuff!


Keith

It's the cost versus benefit for me.
I don't do enough work with sheet goods to justify. Actually, if I never had to cut another piece of plywood, or MDF, in my life, that would be just fine with me.
I've also watched the threads on track saws and wondered why some of the folks don't have panel saws. Every cabinet maker I know that makes their living at it, has a panel saw in their shop. I don't know a single cabinet maker that doesn't have one. They are expensive for a quality model from what friends have told me, but these guys cut will cut more sheet stock in a week than I will in 20 years.
Generally, when I do have a project that involves sheet goods, I have a "basic cut list" and have the plywood cut down at the lumber yard, or at Home Depot if it's just for some cheap project with their junky plywood.

[roger wiegand]

As above-- for the perhaps a dozen sheets of plywood that I need to cut in a year it's just not worth it. I used to think about one when I broke down sheet goods on my table saw, but now my track saw works perfectly for the purpose. In my shop wall space is at a premium and I wouldn't want to give up a significant fraction of what I have for a so seldom needed tool.

[Kevin Jenness]

Good panel saws (think Streibig) are definitely the non-cnc way to go for making big rectangles into small ones with square edges- much better ergonomically for a straight cabinet shop or sign shop than any kind of tablesaw. I think most of the people on this site need more versatility and are not using as much sheet stock. Personally, I have room for only one dimension saw, so I have an 8' stroke slider. It does take up more space and is harder to load than a panel saw, but I can easily do odd angles and bevels with it.

[Rod Sheridan]

I see panel and beam saws in shops, as well as sliders.

A panel saw can be a great way to process sheet goods, especially if the edge bander has pre-milling............Regards, Rod.

[Frederick Skelly]

My small shop is also wall space limited. Like others, I don't use enough sheet goods to justify the space impact. So a track saw was a good fit for me. But I'd have preferred a panel saw.
Fred

[Jim Becker]

The biggest reason there is little discussion of these excellent machines is...demographics. They are a tool that does what they do extremely well, but the majority of community members here are not pro shops that use a lot of sheet goods in a short period of time. Personally, I have essentially zero wall space to put such a machine and probably only use a dozen or two sheets a year. My slider, track saw and now my CNC machine take on the task...the latter pretty much exclusively for anything that can fit on half-sheets. And honestly, even many of the small to mid-size pro shops are adopting CNC, too. That reduces the market for the more traditional panel saws, IMHO.

[David Kumm]

I'd be interested in info about good used panel saws. A commercial grade 10' slider can be found for less than 5K used and a little more gets a really heavy build in very good condition. What is the range for a used panel saw and what are the things to watch for when assessing one? What does a panel saw do well and what is a slider better at? Dave

[Bill Dufour]

I always thought they could be mounted outside against the shop wall with a simple lean to dog house to keep the weather off.
Bil lD

[Bill Dufour]

I think a panel saw would be more useful i it could also do rip cuts on the length of a panel.[/QUOTE]

They do rip cuts but you need 16+ feet horizontally. They can also use a router instead of a circular saw.
Bil lD

[Ben Rivel]

Wouldnt want to give up so much wall space when my track saw can do everything a panel saw can do and more with the guide rails. I also dont break down that much sheet good to justify owning a one trick pony.

[Kevin Jenness]

" What does a panel saw do well and what is a slider better at?"

A panel saw is good at making square-edged rectangles out of sheet goods. They can do v-grooving as well with the proper cutter. Putsch-Meniconi has a model that does beveled edges but that is the only one I am aware of. The ergonomics are better because you can slide a sheet from storage on edge onto the saw easily, and gravity holds it in place. Good saws have a mid height shelf for smaller parts to eliminate stooping. Long rip cuts are accomplished by moving the cutting head horizontally, although the upper piece has to be held up manually or with wedges to prevent pinching the blade. Most cuts can be made by locking the horizontal travel and cutting vertically. Some makers have an angle cutting device available, but sliders are generally more capable of odd angles and bevelled edges. Sliders require more operator attention and effort to keeping the material aligned to the fences.

[Mark e Kessler]

Here is a nice Striebig to watch, I used to work here years ago. It was used in the veneer dept in which I worked in at one point , only used to break down substrate for boardroom tops , mostly 1” - “1.25 MDF and baltek light weight panels, was used with a vacuum lift.

http://www.thcauction.com/auction/358222/wood-furniture-manufacturing-plant-assets/

[Joe Calhoon]

The vertical saws are popular in Europe. The panel products there are on the large size and would be difficult to break down on a slider. Usually they have a hoist positioned close to the saw and vertical panel storage. Panels are grabbed in the vertical position and swung into the saw. At my cousin’s shop in northern Italy he stocked 3 and 5 layer solid panels that were roughly 6’X 14’. Most of the smaller shops will have both a vertical and slider and the big shop’s usually a beam saw also.

[jack duren]

A lot of shops use various tools for various jobs. It's a hobby forum and it really comes down to room. I use sliders, panel saws, cnc's,etc to break down parts and choose the best tool on each product.

A slider vs a panel saw....funny

[Brian Backner]

I considered getting a panel saw six years ago when I was gearing up to build our new kitchen ( I did build it and it consumed nearly 40 sheets of prefinished maple plywood) for the ease in breaking down the sheet goods. As it was to go into my already overcrowded garage, I strongly considered hinging it to the ceiling for storage (there are nearly 10' ceilings in there) but ultimately bought a Festool track saw which worked very well.

Folding it up to near the ceiling would have required adding some additional steel to stiffen the entire thing as well as designing and installing a set of pivots up there. This did not appear, at the time, to be that difficult but I opted for the track saw when I realized (as several others have pointed out) I rarely use more than a handful of sheets of any type of plywood/MDF/etc. in the course of any given year.

[Darcy Warner]

If I processed a lot of sheet goods, I would prefer a beam saw. Yes they take up floor space, but stacking and cutting multiple sheets makes up for that.

[Bill Dufour]

what is this? is it missing a saw?
Bill D.

https://goldcountry.craigslist.org/tls/d/san-andreas-panel-saw-table-saw-tablesaw/7023524135.html

[Randy Heinemann]

I assume that the cost of a track saw and track would be less than a panel saw (although I suppose you could make one for less). Years ago, I wanted a panel saw badly and researched plans and ready-made and decided that, because I was not a full-time woodworker, I couldn't justify the cost or the time to make one for less. Now, I own a track saw. The track saw is much more versatile for my use than a panel saw would be and takes up less space. Regardless of cost, the track saw and track can be used for much more of my work than a panel saw.

[Andrew Joiner]

I rarely see anyone here discuss panel saws. I own one and have found it to be a great way to break down sheet goods, especially 12 foot long Corian sheets. It's also the reason that I have stopped using my table saw since the panel saw and band saw have been doing all of the work in my sign shop for the last few years. A panel saw does take up a lot of wall space but almost no floor space which seems to be the most valuable in most work shops. My only complaint is that I wish my panel saw was computer controlled :)

I agree with you Keith.

I had a Safety Speed Panel Saw in my pro shop from 1970 to 2005 and loved it! It spoiled me so much I had to have one in my hobby wood shop. Now I use a vertical panel saw that I made. I get cutting accuracy of 1/64" straight and square just like my old Safety Speed Cut. The cuts are ready for edge banding.

The vertical saws are the way to go for 1 person. You can store your sheets on edge and flip thru sheets to select one. I can slide sheets from storage,on edge, thru the saw. No heavy lifting or scratching veneer faces.
I designed my shop with wall space for the panel saw and clearance to rip 4x8 sheets. The wall behind the saw is accessible for hanging storage, so it doesn't really "take up wall space".
The whole layout for panel storage, handling and sawing takes up little space. A slider and it's clearance would take up more space.

[Wayne Cannon]

It seems like an obvious solution to the wall space concern, as thin as a panel saw is, would be to hinge it to tilt up against the ceiling when not in use; yet I never hear it suggested. Is there something I'm missing?

I have the aluminum extrusions for a quality DIY panel saw, and that is my plan.

[Rich Engelhardt]

For the $1000 or so I have wrapped up in my cordless Makita track saw & all the stuff that goes with it - - I'm 10's of 1000's of dollars ahead in one crucial department....

I can pack up my cutting table & track saw & take it to the core & cut my sheet goods to finished/exact size - right in the parking lot & transport it all in the back of my Sportage and/or Kona.

I'd need a small truck & generator to run the panel saw to be able to do that :D .

Seriously though - now that I have the cordless Makita - I no longer have to "feed" a van or pickup truck.
This was a huge deciding factor for me just a couple months ago.
I looked at a 4x4 F150 crew cab ($52k) and a AWD Hyundai Kona($23K) - to say nothing of the gas economy....and insurance and,,etc,etc...

An alternative would of course be - rent a truck to transport or have it delivered.
The truck rental still means a lot of screwing around getting and returning the truck, plus the expense. The delivery means humping the sheets from the street to the garage & the delivery charge & having to settle for whatever junk they pull and try to give me.

It's all what ever suits a person best &/or what they can afford.

[Rob Damon]

I have one that I will use to rough cut large sheets. It is the Powermatic one.
I permanently mounted it to the wall and filled in the gabs of the frame with built-in wall storage cabinets so get plenty of storage space and the benefit of the vertical panelsaw. I am not giving up useable wall space.
Rob

[Erik Loza]

Of all the shops in my area, I can count the vertical panel saws on one hand. Most of those are Safety Speedcuts. FYI that a good vertical costs about the same (or more) than a sliding panel saw.

Erik

[Frederick Skelly]

For the $1000 or so I have wrapped up in my cordless Makita track saw & all the stuff that goes with it - - I'm 10's of 1000's of dollars ahead in one crucial department....

I can pack up my cutting table & track saw & take it to the core & cut my sheet goods to finished/exact size - right in the parking lot & transport it all in the back of my Sportage and/or Kona.

I'd need a small truck & generator to run the panel saw to be able to do that :D .

Seriously though - now that I have the cordless Makita - I no longer have to "feed" a van or pickup truck.
This was a huge deciding factor for me just a couple months ago.
I looked at a 4x4 F150 crew cab ($52k) and a AWD Hyundai Kona($23K) - to say nothing of the gas economy....and insurance and,,etc,etc...

An alternative would of course be - rent a truck to transport or have it delivered.
The truck rental still means a lot of screwing around getting and returning the truck, plus the expense. The delivery means humping the sheets from the street to the garage & the delivery charge & having to settle for whatever junk they pull and try to give me.

It's all what ever suits a person best &/or what they can afford.

Good idea Rich. It sounds like I missed a good reason to buy cordless. (Sigh). I have the yard or store where I buy the plywood cut the sheet to rough dimensiona to let it fit in my vehicles. (Most BORGs and yards have a panel saw.) I lose a bit of material but it works for me.

[Frederick Skelly]

I have one that I will use to rough cut large sheets. It is the Powermatic one.
I permanently mounted it to the wall and filled in the gabs of the frame with built-in wall storage cabinets so get plenty of storage space and the benefit of the vertical panelsaw. I am not giving up useable wall space.
Rob

Rob,
Any chance you could post a picture of that sometime? That's a clever idea!
Thanks.
Fred

[Ron Selzer]

I bought a Saftety Speed Cut H5 in 1989 for a side job I was doing to survive after a divorce. Hauled it from the store there on a trailer behind a motorcycle. Paid for before that job building commercial display cabinets was half done. Cut 1 inch nominal stock on it up to plywood, laminate, etc. Ripped and crosscut with it. Moved it out of there and down to an old barn I had for a shop behind the motorcycle once again. I was young and strong then. Now it is attached to the head wall of the garage with cars parked against it. back the cars out and slide sheet goods out of the pickup, carry over to the saw, cut them to size and then move down to shop in basement. Bought a Milwaukee Panel Saw with stand and wheels a few weeks ago because it will fit down in the basement where I will use it to crosscut glued up panels, doors, etc that are too wide for the radial arm saw. Not enough room for a slider down there as it lays out now. Have a SawStop ICS 36" fence on mobile base that has to move to use the 12" planer. Panel saw will sit in another room with lumber. Bought the Milwaukee off of ebay very cheap, looks like it had made one cut of thin material at the most. Have more money in accessories than I paid for it. Still have about half the cost of a track saw in it. The panel saw will always cut 90 degrees dead on, track saw can't without a lot of set up. IF I still was doing a lot of side work that involved setup and tear down every time then I would look harder at a track saw. For a stationary shop as I am now a panel saw hands down. If I had a big shop (impossible where I live) then I would look a lot harder at a big slider, still would have my panel saws.

[Dave Cav]

I had a Safety Speed Cut panel saw at school. We had the wall space for it, and there was no way I was going to invest in a high dollar track setup in a high school shop environment. The SSC was fine for what we needed, not too expensive, but not terribly durable. The custodians destroyed it one summer (knocked it over on it's face) and eventually I was able to get the facilities management people to buy me a new one as there was no way I could get the old one squared up and working properly again. They are good saws for a one man shop where the owner/operator is going to take care of it, but I feel they're a little (ok a lot) light for a big production shop.

In my own shop I don't have the wall space for a panel saw, don't break down enough panel stock to need one, and use my 8.5' slider for all that stuff. If I need to break a sheet in half for handling purposes I have a home made track saw that works fine.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I have the yard or store where I buy the plywood cut the sheet to rough dimensiona to let it fit in my vehicles. (Most BORGs and yards have a panel saw.)I used to do that also - - but - - the lots where I buy my good plywood - not the junk the borg sells - don't have any saws to cut down the sheets.
I tried to come up with some way to use my Festool saw, but, it was too expensive to buy a decent generator - plus those are too bulky & take up too much room in the compact & sub compact SUV.

When Home Depot had a great deal on the cordless Makita a couple/three years ago - I jumped all over it.
Made the change from DeWalt to Makita cordless tools also.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I never have because a panel saw does one thing, a slider saw does many. If your work is exclusively sheet goods, probably a good tool, but who's is?

[Terry Wawro]

Like others have said. It's a space thing. Someone offered to give me a panel saw five years ago but I politely declined because I just don't have the wall space for it.

[Rob Damon]

Fred
Will get some pics and post in a day or so.
Rob

[johnny means]

I think we need to differentiate between a circular saw on a metal frame and a proper panel saw. The ones I've worked with will break down a sheet into rectangular parts faster than anything but beam saw. They'll do repeated rips at any width, cut up to 3 ¾ sheets at once, and are almost impossible to get an out of square cut from. They're also much safer than almost any table saw.

[Alan Lightstone]

Rob,
Any chance you could post a picture of that sometime? That's a clever idea!
Thanks.
Fred

+1

I would love to see that. I've been thinking of the same thing to use the area around my panel saw. The horizontal floor space it requires is huge if you want to do rip cuts, but there is a lot to be said to now having to manhandle full sheets of plywood onto a table saw.

I do use mine a bunch, but it has taken away serious real estate from, among other things, lumber storage.

[Peter Kelly]

what is this? is it missing a saw?
Bill D.

https://goldcountry.craigslist.org/tls/d/san-andreas-panel-saw-table-saw-tablesaw/7023524135.htmlMy guess is an Evans Countertop saw. Looks to be missing the motor and saw arbor...

[Jeff Duncan]

I think we need to differentiate between a circular saw on a metal frame and a proper panel saw. The ones I've worked with will break down a sheet into rectangular parts faster than anything but beam saw. They'll do repeated rips at any width, cut up to 3 ¾ sheets at once, and are almost impossible to get an out of square cut from. They're also much safer than almost any table saw.

Quite true.... very different beasts! I worked with a Striebig at a shop many years ago and it was a joy to use. Really much more friendly to break down sheet goods IMHO as you don't have to hoist them up onto a slider. I also owned a SawTrax "panel saw" for a couple years and can say it was a complete piece of garbage not really worth the money. Could never dial it in to get an accurate cut consistently. But generally speaking once you get used to using quality machines going the other way is difficult.

Although I've always had the thought in the back of my mind, I've just never come across the right deal for a good quality panel saw. Also it would be difficult to squeeze into my shop.... though if there's a will, there's a way! The biggest hurdle is the price. As of maybe 10 years ago or so the least expensive entry model Streibig was around $25k. Now add to that delivery and setup, as these machine do need to be setup by someone who knows what they're doing, (you can't, or at least shouldn't just drop it in place and start cutting), and your getting close to $30k for an entry level machine with one job. That's a steep entry fee for many guys. A really good quality used slider you can find pretty easily under $10k.

JeffD

[lowell holmes]

Or you can make a panel for your skil saw with an 18" wide x 86" or 72" x 1/2" thk plywood. Nail or screw a 1x4 to the center of the
resulting piece. Then rip the edges with the skil saw. Clamp the the piece to a sheet of plywood and rip away.

[Keith Outten]

Lots of interesting points of view. I purchased my panel saw about 18 years ago, as I recall it was about $1,200.00 at the time. Not exactly a precision machine but it stays within 1/32" which is close enough for the work I do in my shop. Originally I had a 3 year cabinet project for a local school system so the panel saw paid for itself in no time. When I started making commercial signs using 12 foot long Corian sheets the panel saw once again became a must have tool. I often have lots of junk and at least one workbench in front of my panel saw BUT its not much of a chore to move everything out of the way so I can break down sheets the easy way.

[Peter Kelly]

Thought this looked intriguing. Also available with the Makita track saw.

https://i.imgur.com/S7oydVM.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/e5hV6bv.jpg

https://www.makxilia.biz/en/woodworking-machinery/vertical-panel-saws/vertical-panel-saw-makk-easycut-16x32.html

[Kevin Jenness]

The link explains its capabilities

"For cutting panels either in vertical or in horizontal, made of:
- Chipboard
- Ennobled chipboard
- Multilayer
- Massive wood
- MDF
- Plexiglas
- Polycarbonate
- Plastic materials
- Corian, etc…"

Ennobled chipboard and massive wood- what's not to like?

[Peter Kelly]

Legno massiccio = Solid wood.

Translation from Italian there is a bit awkward..

[Rob Damon]

As requested, simple fill-in cabinets for the panelsaw.

The panelsaw is secured to the wall with hd angle brackets, two top and two bottom. The cabinets were installed after the panelsaw was secured to the wall.

The cabinet frames are made of two 3/4" plywood sandwiched together for the vertical frame portion that are pocket hole screwed to the wall that are located directly behind the vertical rails of the panelsaw. Horizontal shelves are installed level with the horizontal frame of the panelsaw.

Smaller sections have single shelf, larger sections have multiple shelves.

A separate 1x2 face frame with grooves for the sliding doors that are installed within the frame of the panelsaw.

The sliding doors are made of hardboard with black chalk paint so I can make notes as needed when cutting multiple panels. The have finger holes for opening and closing, as handles would get in the way of the sliding plywood being cut.

I added two 30"x30"x9" cabinets at the top two sides.

420797

420798

420799

[Jim Becker]

That is a dynamite setup, Rob!!

[Rob Damon]

It certainly helped in de-clutter the shop some.