Gas or Electric Ovens [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Patrick Kane

11-21-2019, 1:11 PM

This is something i am very interested in, but have no practical comparison. I just did a small reno on the kitchen putting in an externally exhausted hood, slide in range, and marble backsplash. I really wanted a thermador dual fuel, but ultimately didnt want to shell out $5k, and frankly, the electric oven was a bit of a concern. Bringing it back to woodworking for a second, i have a 100amp service. AC+cyclone+5hp tool+oven running at the same time is probably enough to trip my main breaker. Woodworking and my pocketbook won out and i ended up with a kitchen aid 900 series slide in. I bought it scratch and dent for $1000, which was a song for a $3500+ new range. It cooks pretty well. The burners are in the 18-20k BTU range, which are good for a home range.

After all my tossing and turning and research, it looks like gas ovens are better for roasting and electric ovens are better for baking. An electric oven will be very very consistent. If you set the thermostat to 350°, it is going to be 350° throughout. A gas oven might be 365° in the bottom front and 345° in the top left corner. Convection ovens equalize this pretty well, so it is a moot point now, i think. Some experts might disagree. The heat sources do vary a bit in that electric is a dry heat--once again, better for cookies and bread--where a gas heat source tends to be moister. I cant tell you the last time i baked something, and i ended up going with gas. It does make you wonder why every high end range is duel fuel with an electric oven. Maybe they are slightly better, but i dont know if it is appreciable. I keep hearing induction cooktops are worth a look, but traditional electric burners are trash. I dont think anyone will stand up and argue which is better, gas or electric burners. I prefer gas broilers too.

George Bokros

11-21-2019, 1:12 PM

Not sure why you have an issue with baking cakes. Fuel type should make no difference, heat is heat. What problem are you having with baking cakes?

Ken Fitzgerald

11-21-2019, 1:13 PM

Prashun,

When we remodeled our kitchen in 2015, we replaced an electric range with a gas range with two built-in gas ovens (both are full temperature range gas ovens, one is not a warmer oven) and an electric wall oven. Thus wife has 3 ovens and on occasions has used all 3 simultaneously. Previously we had an electric range. My wife and I both like the gas range better for the same reason Mike stated, changes in temperature adjustments are instantaneous with a gas range. My wife does most of the baking and has spent the last 3 days doing her Christmas cookie baking. Both gas and electric ovens perform equally well. Locally, the cost of operating the gas range and oven is more economical and recommended by our local utility company.

Stephen Tashiro

11-21-2019, 1:23 PM

gas or electric?

If you are doing this in an older house, do you have adequate electric service for another electric appliance? For example, 100 amp service may be inadequate to support a combination of central AC, electric stove, electric water heater, and electric dryer

Dan Friedrichs

11-21-2019, 1:27 PM

We have a dual-fuel, and I think I prefer it over gas ovens I've used (but for no objective or quantifiable reason). As Patrick said, dual fuel seems to be the trend in high-end units.

If I were buying new, though, I'd go with an induction stove and electric oven.

Steven Cooper2

11-21-2019, 1:31 PM

Gas if you have the option, it has better feel, and potentially more applied power. I have had several gas as well as electric coil and radiant stove tops and prefer gas.

Electric radiant or restive is very slow to respond as the heat transfer mechanism is rather inefficient. Induction may make up for these inadequacies, but at the cost of a more limited selection of cookware available to work with it.

Probably negligible on the oven side of things as time constants are large. Gas may or may not heat slightly faster.

Stan Calow

11-21-2019, 2:04 PM

Grew up with gas, now electric. Gas cooks more evenly and gas cook tops are preferred because they are infinitely adjustable by eye, and they work even if the power is out. Note that the new gas ovens/cooktops require electricity as well, to run the timer and ignition. If not already piped for gas to the oven, it can be expensive to run the pipes.

Another detail is that pots and pans for electric should be flat-bottomed (for full contact) whereas for gas they are a bit convex so as to sit on the grate steadily.

Jim Becker

11-21-2019, 3:20 PM

Just to qualify, I'm the primary cook in the house and I take my cooking seriously. Range top....no question gas is da best, even with how good induction tops are these days. I'd opt for induction if I was forced to, but much prefer to cook on gas...and I have a lot of BTUs available on our Thermador range.

Now for an oven, electric is generally considered preferable because in the kind of environment that an oven creates, heating can be more even than with gas. My ovens are gas and they work just great, but they do not have the consistency that "really serious" baking might require, for example. I wanted to opt for dual fuel, but the cost differential was way more than I could afford at the time, so I stuck with all gas. Since you have the option for wall ovens, electric is the way to go for them. A close friend recently re-did his kitchen (the one I did the massive VF D-fir kitchen "continent" top for) and that's how they went. Gas for the range top and electric for the wall ovens. And there are some great choices for features in come of the new wall ovens these days from what I understand.

Jamie Buxton

11-21-2019, 3:20 PM

When I last looked at this, all electric ovens had the self-clean cycle, and most gas ovens did not.

Dan Hulbert

11-21-2019, 3:50 PM

Be glad you're on the right coast and not the left coast. Just saw an article about some CA municipalities no longer allowing gas for cooking.

Lisa Starr

11-21-2019, 3:56 PM

I have an induction cooktop and would never willing go with electric or gas again. The induction (mine's a Wolf) is as responsive/fast as gas without the indoor pollution. I actually can boil water for making tea faster than the microwave! With the ultra tight homes being built today, that is something to consider. My wall ovens are electric and I'm happy with them.

Ken Fitzgerald

11-21-2019, 4:06 PM

When I last looked at this, all electric ovens had the self-clean cycle, and most gas ovens did not.

Jamie, of our two gas ovens, at least one is self cleaning. The other one, I don't think I have ever noticed but it is the lower one which is seldom used. The electric wall oven is self cleaning.

Edward Dyas

11-21-2019, 4:18 PM

Edwin Santos

11-21-2019, 5:10 PM

Some of the answer depends on the cook's preferences. A professional chef will always prefer a gas range. However after living in Japan for a while where every cook top is induction, I came to realize how comparable a good induction cooktop is to gas in it's performance. Add to this the ease of cleaning, and the reduced risk of being burned by a flame or still hot grate.

So my vote would be gas or induction for a cooktop depending on how you personally rank the pros/cons of each.
Electric for oven. Personally I think Thermador is the gold standard, but either Wolf or Dacor are right behind. For an oven I think it is important to obtain info on how fast it heats up. Features such as pure convection and hybrid convection can be important also.

I would not let utility cost be the deciding vote. My understanding is that the operating cost of an oven is more negligible than people think. I looked into it when I started making bone broth and stock in the oven overnight and I came to find out that running the oven for 12 hours was something like $.12 per hour so less than $1.50. Even if a gas oven cut that in half, I don't think it will expedite your retirement meaningfully.
Hope this rambling helps.

Ted Calver

11-21-2019, 5:33 PM

If you live on the east or west coast you might consider cities trying to ban gas. I believe Berkley was the one that banned gas being supplied to any new construction already. I'm sure they are just getting started.

What's the rationale for banning gas? Carbon emissions?

David Bassett

11-21-2019, 5:39 PM

What's the rationale for banning gas? Carbon emissions?

As I understand it, Yes.

BTW- Berkeley wasn't the first nor the only city to ban gas in new construction. (Note gas doesn't necessarily emit more, but with electric the emission source can be controlled and upgraded without retrofitting homes.)

David Bassett

11-21-2019, 5:47 PM

A couple points on cook tops. (No experience with ovens here!)

This Old House said, (last season?), Induction was much more efficient than gas. (Less wasted BTUs as you're heating very little beyond the pot & the food.)

Also, years ago in another article or show, I remember restaurant cooks being interviewed about cooking with Induction. (It was a trendy Manhattan restaurant in a location that couldn't meet exhaust vent fire codes for gas cook tops.) They said it was hard at first because it was different, but in a few weeks they'd tweaked their techniques and it works every bit as well as gas.

Jim Koepke

11-21-2019, 5:55 PM

What's the rationale for banning gas? Carbon emissions?

Another thing to consider along the west coast is the possibility of an earthquake breaking gas lines.

Though my understanding in Berkeley is it was enacted to reduce carbon emissions.

jtk

Art Mann

11-21-2019, 8:09 PM

Apparently, they prefer that their citizens consume natural gas by using electricity from natural gas fed power plants in other States rather than consuming it directly.

Ron Citerone

11-21-2019, 8:27 PM

Gas hands down!

Also, I thought the gas bans in some cities had to do with earthquake prone areas??

Bruce Wrenn

11-21-2019, 8:28 PM

Apparently, they prefer that their citizens consume natural gas by using electricity from natural gas fed power plants in other States rather than consuming it directly.Actually from COAL fired power plants in UTAH. We have a slide in gas range in one kitchen, and a gas cook top and electric convection oven in the other. Yes we have two kitchens. When we added addition to house 30 years ago, we decided to make it a complete apartment. This way, when one of us is gone, the apartment side could be rented for a source of income, plus cover the costs of running house hold (taxes, insurance, utilities, etc.) We have the space for large get together of family, or friends. In case of power outage, generator can furnish electricity to ignite burners on gas range, which unfortunately we have had to do.

Bill McNiel

11-21-2019, 10:00 PM

Prashun,

GAS! Ask any professional Chef, go to your favorite restaurant and the odds are very heavy they are cooking with gas. My son, who is recognised as a 4 Star Italian Chef, hates electric cook tops but will "tolerate" an electric oven.

Mike Henderson

11-21-2019, 10:04 PM

What's the rationale for banning gas? Carbon emissions?
Natural gas is mostly methane, which is a greenhouse gas. I suppose some natural gas leaks and that's my guess why they want to push people to electricity.

More and more, electricity is being generated by methods other than fossil fuel and even if you have a fossil fuel generation unit, you can better control the emissions in a single unit than you can in dispersed units.

Mike

Andrew Seemann

11-21-2019, 10:07 PM

Well, my birthday cake is in the gas oven as I type this, and I don't see any difficulties in its production:) I've never used an electric oven for baking, so I don't know if I am missing out or not. I seems I have heard that they can heat more evenly, not sure how much that matters on a practical level, though. I do bake a lot, and I can't say I have ever felt limited by a gas oven. I do absolutely despise electric stoves, and I have this reinforced every year when I have to use an electric stove at the cabin we rent. Since I will be too cheap to buy a dual fuel stove when our current one dies someday, I will likely alway have a gas oven.

Peter Kelly

11-21-2019, 10:19 PM

Bill Dufour

11-21-2019, 10:50 PM

Electric oven is prefered by many cooks. Also gas ovens are no longer vented to a chimney(after 1950's) so all that heat, CO, and fumes go into the house.
OP: is this a convection oven, if so turn off fan for cakes or anything that rises in baking.

San Jose California has also just banned gas for new housing. It is a carbon emission thing.
Bil lD

John Goodin

11-22-2019, 1:08 AM

While I have never used one I heard induction can boil water faster than gas. But unlike gas you lose the visual aspect when adjusting the heat. The smooth top of induction is very easy to clean.

Gas when burned puts off moisture and when used in an oven leads to baked goods that are less crispy.

We purchased a GE Cafe dual fuel double oven slide in range. The top oven is great for casseroles and such and preheats very quick. The lower oven will get used for turkeys, roasts, etc. The whole range takes the space of one regular range but costs as much as two.

Doug Dawson

11-22-2019, 4:30 AM

We are replacing our stove top with a range, and not sure if we should get gas or electric. (Electric is 30% more. than the gas option).

We currently have an electric wall oven currently, and have issues with baking cakes. Cookies, turkeys, lasagnes, enchiladas are all fine.

Anyway, reco's from the Creek appreciated: gas or electric?

Not totally sure what you're asking, the cook top and oven are separate issues. Gas rules for the cook top, although I've heard good things about induction. We have a (gas) Bosch cook top, and it's a nightmare to clean. I'd suggest your number one priority for that is the ability to clean it easily, and I wish we'd gone with the KitchenAid on that, it's better set up to handle that issue.

With ovens, electric will eat you alive (monetarily) compared to gas. However, the (electric) performance is better, and I can hardly imagine using gas for the broiler function, it just doesn't work that well. Consistency, and the even-ness of heat application. Consider getting a monitor system, thermocouple probes etc., if there's a question about how the oven is functioning. ThermoWorks is a good supplier.

Mike Cutler

11-22-2019, 4:51 AM

Gas for the range top, or stove. No question there. You cannot install an electric stove top, in a normal residential application, that can even begin to compete with gas, btu for btu. Gas wins, hands down.
We have a gas wall oven, that we like quite a bit. But I know that electric works well also. We just prefer gas.No good reason, just preference.
I would also go out on a limb and say that btu per btu, electric is the most expensive energy source across the country. It might be 100% efficient, but electricity is not cheap, nor carbon free. Ever!

Ole Anderson

11-22-2019, 7:01 AM

Dual fuel for me. We have a GE mid range model, the Cafe. Just not comfortable with a gas oven. However it seems that an induction stove top range is really up and coming, offering a fast heat, unlike a glass top conventional electric range. They are sure a lot easier to clean than a gas stove top though.

Ted Calver

11-22-2019, 9:21 AM

We'll stick with the gas cook top and electric oven. Induction would require getting rid of all of the really nice copper and stainless steel cookware we've acquired over the years.

roger wiegand

11-22-2019, 9:28 AM

For an oven both work well, excellent convection and decent interior hardware is more important than fuel type. Ours is gas and eats $120 igniters, which is a pain. If self-clean is important to you electric is probably the better choice (it's been decades since we had one, I just live with the patina that develops over time, it doesn't affect the cooking in any way). Neither gets hot enough to cook a pizza properly, which is why my most used oven now is wood fired.

For cooktop I strongly prefer gas.

Ron Citerone

11-22-2019, 9:29 AM

I agree with the comment made that Gas Broilers aren’t that great. I don’t use mine. I use my gas grill for that stuff. No complaints about gas oven though.

Jim Becker

11-22-2019, 9:29 AM

Induction would require getting rid of all of the really nice copper and stainless steel cookware we've acquired over the years.
It depends upon the actual construction of the cookware's core...a lot of it still has steel core because of the heat retention and is compatible with induction. But yes, what you state can be a factor if you have cookware you absolutely love (and it really is a personal thing for sure) and would have to give up if you make the move to induction. I've been careful with choosing my cookware over the years and AFAIK, only have one particular (really small) sauce pan that wouldn't be compatible.

Peter Kelly

11-22-2019, 10:04 AM

While I have never used one I heard induction can boil water faster than gas. But unlike gas you lose the visual aspect when adjusting the heat. The smooth top of induction is very easy to clean.With most induction cookers, you select the temperature you want the pan to be at which is considerably more accurate than just setting to a gas mark. When you need to adjust or cut the heat, it reacts instantly.

Cleanup is also about 1,000x easier than a gas hob.

Walter Mooney

11-22-2019, 10:38 AM

Prashun, gas all the way! Much easier to control the temperature (IMO), and, possibly best of all, the oven and stove will still work when the power goes out! All you'll need is a match!

Art Mann

11-22-2019, 12:16 PM

Jim Koepke

11-22-2019, 2:08 PM

Natural gas (methane) has exactly two combustion products. Those are carbon dioxide and water. How is that different in one environment versus another? I cannot believe that less total CO2 is generated when generating electricity to run a stove eye than would be consumed by direct burning.

There are many facets to this equation.

A provider of electricity has their system under control so as to produce as much energy as is needed and not a lot more. Compare this to each individual in a home who may turn the burner on full when not needed for the job.

Also as an installer for a phone company many years ago, many of the homes visited would have all the burners on the stove on full to provide heat. This is a very inefficient use of energy.

CO2 capture and sequestration technology will be easier to have installed in a generating facility than in homes and apartment units.

Also not all electrical generation in California is produced using natural gas. In California over 40% of electrical energy is produced by a combination of hydro electric, wind, solar and geothermal generation. (SOURCE) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California#:~:targetText=California%20le ads%20the%20nation%20in,goals%20in%20the%20United% 20States.) With natural gas production about the same, it might be reasonable to say the use of electricity for heat would use half the volume of gas than if the end consumer was burning the gas.

jtk

Eduard Nemirovsky

11-22-2019, 4:25 PM

Another vote for INDUCTION top. Much faster than gas, much easier to control temperature. Easier to clean. If you want visual of the gas - Samsung make blue light on the stove, exactly like gas.
One negative side of the induction - you will need a different pans, not all material good for induction top. And another negative - no power, no cooking :((
Ed.

Kev Williams

11-22-2019, 7:44 PM

Multi-heat sources, past and present...

Our business, and us, are living in what was my parents house, we sold our house in '06 and moved in to take care of my parents. Years before in our old house I got the wife a JennAire gas range with a convection electric oven. Wonderful combo, I love gas (in my youth I was a Denny's cook which is where my love of gas cooking started), and the electric oven was a great compliment. My parents had an early 80's electric JennAire, it was working fine, no problems, then one day I'm at a home furnishing's place, in the 'clearance items' room. And sitting in a box, with 'reg price $1749' tag with several lowered prices hanging from it, is a white, 5 burner ceramic top JennAire, for under $300. Brand new, one knob was missing, all else was there. Once installed I was very surprised. The heating coils in these things get cherry red in about 5 seconds, and the ceramic top over them heats up very quickly. The larger the burner, the more coils, and each burner could control 1, 2 or 3 coils working from inside-out, so even the largest burner could function as a small, medium and large burner without wasting heat. And the ceramic would cool down quickly too, the thing was nearly as quick to react as gas. I really did like how it worked. It's main drawback, needs cleaning after every meal, Bar Keepers Friend and Scotchbrite is a necessity ;)

We'd still be using it, but the wife really wanted a bigger oven than the 24" in-wall thing that was here, so I found a nice big GE 'European Convection' oven, but the only place to put it was in the cabinet under the cooktop, but under the JennAire was its blower and exhaust plumbing. So like Ole, I ended up getting her a semi-matching GE Cafe gas cooktop to replace the JennAire. (we still have both JennAire's stored away)...

However, all cooking sources have issues, and gas has many in my opinion. For one, it's dirty. Good range hood or downdraft exhaust helps.. Second, particularly with the JennAire in our last house-- with the downdraft blower running, it would suck the flames towards it, which took heat away from the cooking. So much so that it was hard to keep water boiling. Third, most burners suck, flames typically exit the edges of the burner outward, wasting a lot of heat IMO. The flame should exit upward or inward, where more heat will actually heat the pot! While I love the Cafe, it only has one decent burner, the big 'power boil' burner in the middle- because it's big, AND has a secondary small burner in the middle that helps with center heat and acts as the keep-warm burner (and the 'one-egg-wonder' pan). The other burners, have to be careful when stirring to not burn the hair off the bottom of my arm!

As to induction, I have one of those single cooktops they sell on TV, LOVE the thing! I use it about as much as the big center burner on the Cafe- But IT has its own issues, main one being, how 'fast and accurate' is dependent on the cooking utensil. I have a very thin el-chepo steel fry pan that I love to show off, it will literally sear meat in 10 seconds, at 15 seconds it'll be burnt. I can put 1/4 cup of veg oil in the thing and have 3 corn tortillas ready for tacos in a little over a minute. It'll boil a cup of cold water in about 30 seconds, less than half the time of our 1200w microwave. But the temp settings are almost useless with this pan, 170 is about 350 actual. But normal pans, much slower, and great control. And fwiw, my parents 60 year old SS waterless cookware works great! As much as I like induction, I'm not sure I'd want the whole stove induction.

In the end, I still give the nod to gas, with our ceramic cooktop in a near dead heat... pun intended ;)

Dan Friedrichs

11-22-2019, 8:48 PM

The flame should exit upward or inward, where more heat will actually heat the pot!

FYI, if you end up going with gas, I'd suggest looking into some of the models that have a star-shaped burner (I think Viking makes some) that solves exactly this problem.

Brian Elfert

11-22-2019, 8:48 PM

Grew up with gas, now electric. Gas cooks more evenly and gas cook tops are preferred because they are infinitely adjustable by eye, and they work even if the power is out. Note that the new gas ovens/cooktops require electricity as well, to run the timer and ignition. If not already piped for gas to the oven, it can be expensive to run the pipes.

I have a pretty new gas cook top with electric ignition and the burners will still emit gas even with no power. They would have to be lit with a match or a lighter. The oven is electric so no oven if the power goes out.

Dan Friedrichs

11-22-2019, 8:59 PM

Natural gas (methane) has exactly two combustion products. Those are carbon dioxide and water. How is that different in one environment versus another? I cannot believe that less total CO2 is generated when generating electricity to run a stove eye than would be consumed by direct burning.

You're probably right, because there are losses in the electric transmission system.

However, I think there are a lot of facets to this that are lost when thinking about it only in relation to stoves.
-Earthquake risk
-Indoor air pollutants (combustion products)
-Losses during the extraction process (ie - methane leaking from wells)
-Better environmental controls at large power plants than individual homes
-Potential to sequester carbon produced at large power plants
-Future ability to shift from natural gas-fueled power plants to alternative energy sources
-Perhaps just a good way to get people thinking/talking about it, even if the policy makes little sense, as it has little immediate impact

Ultimately, Berkeley is one of the best-educated, wealthiest, healthiest cities in the country. If they thought it was a good idea, I'd be inclined to defer to their judgement until/unless I'd done extensive research to understand the issue at the same level as they have.

Jim Becker

11-22-2019, 9:33 PM

FYI, if you end up going with gas, I'd suggest looking into some of the models that have a star-shaped burner (I think Viking makes some) that solves exactly this problem.

Star shaped is Thermador and that's why I ended up with Thermador when we replaced the DCS that had a gas leak issue that couldn't be economically repaired. I love this thing and whether I'm using a tiny 4" sauce pan or a large, 13" enameled cast iron "paella" pan, there's always flame on the cookware. :)

https://6dhvng.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mQTUKEyYZX33cPeH2bENbciSt_Yz60UEet5sq5EJFtpew64b nmtoMBt8ds3dZAxGbw9VS5kpLiaD7ffLX9762dqARuAFDLCeQC EdoV5y_UNe_iyq7QWIlMHyNDXrRjP1_upR5X91WgCCyZDgzao8 Yv2AZjADS5mm6gTpPr8SJcy3RGI5-OpLUmyYC-cMcgm58Vn-jMfGoVriQE3-FQfz75Q?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

Bruce Wrenn

11-22-2019, 9:34 PM

Prashun, gas all the way! Much easier to control the temperature (IMO), and, possibly best of all, the oven and stove will still work when the power goes out! All you'll need is a match!Oven won't work when the power is out, unless connected to a generator. The gas safety valve has a bi-metal strip that is electrically heated. Igniter starts to glow, and current is fed thru safety valve to open for gas flow to burner. Without line voltage, valve won't open

Eric Danstrom

11-23-2019, 8:31 AM

I used a gas cooktop for two decades and just switched to electric induction a couple years ago. Both were what was in place when I purchased the house. I find electric induction much more convenient. The cleaning up is so much simpler and complete. I cook every day but I am not a gourmet and my equipment reflects that.

California is banning gas for heating and cooking to prevent global war....errr....climate change. As for the wisdom of the Berkeley City Council, that's been discussed for several decades now....If they were worried about fires electric power lines seem to be a very large issue with regards origin.

Jon Nuckles

11-23-2019, 9:50 AM

I know this doesn’t apply to the OP, but ... If you live in a climate that allows you to heat efficiently with an electric heat pump and you are doing new construction, you can save by avoiding gas altogether. We pay $20-25/month all year long just in basic fees to be hooked up to the gas grid, but we use virtually no gas other than in heating season. Not to mention added construction costs to install gas capability. I’m not complaining about those monthly fees, as they do represent actual costs to provide the service, but I’d love to eliminate them.

BTW, Berkeley buys all of its electric from renewable sources. Evanston, Illinois, where I live, has made renewable sources the default choice, but allows residents to choose other sources (providers) if they wish.

Eric Danstrom

11-23-2019, 11:49 AM

Some people in California are getting power from one of the largest coal fired power plants in America

Intermountain Power Plant is a large coal-fired power plant (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_power_station) at Delta, Utah (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta,_Utah), USA. It has an installed capacity of 1,900 MW, is owned by the Intermountain Power Agency (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_Power_Agency), and is operated by the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Department_of_Water_and_Power).[1] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_Power_Plant#cite_note-nyt130611-1)[2] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_Power_Plant#cite_note-powerengineering-2)[3] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_Power_Plant#cite_note-ipa-3)[4] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_Power_Plant#cite_note-4)

Mike Henderson

11-23-2019, 2:19 PM

Some people in California are getting power from one of the largest coal fired power plants in America

The percentage of megawatt hours of electricity usage in California, generated by coal, is 3.3% (in 2018). See here (https://ww2.energy.ca.gov/almanac/electricity_data/total_system_power.html). It's been declining each year.

The Intermountain plant is to be converted to natural gas in 2025.

Mike

[California has a goal of 100% renewable electricity by 2045. Not just getting rid of coal, but of all fossil fuels.]

Jim Braun

11-23-2019, 4:06 PM

Prashun,

I assume that you are looking for a 30 inch range, I would look for one with an induction top. We recently switched to induction from gas and I will never go back. Induction is very fast, responds instantly and is easy to control, from melting chocolate to power boil. Cleanup is fast and easy. I think what contributes to making induction so fast is that all the energy goes into the pan; whereas with gas you are bathing the pan in a flame that is also heating the grates and surrounding air

Your cookware needs to be magnetic, we use Enameled cast iron, plain cast iron, all clad stainless pans, french carbon steel pans. Most non stick pans are aluminum, if you primarily use non-stick then you will have to buy more expensive induction capable non-stick. I view non-stick pans as throw-away pans, once the coating starts to go then toss it.

In the end you need to decide what type of cooking you do and base you decision on that.

Jim Becker

11-23-2019, 5:28 PM

Jim, my Zwilling ceramic non-stick is induction compatible and in no way are they disposable like the PFOA and PFTE older type non-stick coatings became because of easy wear. (Folks like us who have birds cannot use anything with PFOA and FFTE containing coatings...they are deadly) But yes, the "good stuff" is more expensive.

Lisa Starr

11-23-2019, 5:37 PM

My favorite pans for our induction cooktop are Griswold Cast Iron. Some I inherited, some I bought for a dollar or two at garage sales, and one big Dutch Oven I paid dearly. Still this 80+ year old collection beats all my All-Clad in almost ever instance and far exceeds the quality of most CI cookware your can purchase new today.

Dan Friedrichs

11-24-2019, 8:39 AM

Jim, do you like/recommend the Zwilling? I'm looking for a replacement for our "disposable" PTFE non-sticks...

Jim Becker

11-24-2019, 10:38 AM

Jim, do you like/recommend the Zwilling? I'm looking for a replacement for our "disposable" PTFE non-sticks...
Yea, I really do. I started out with a couple of GreenPan brand (their better ones, not the cheapest) and they were ok. The Zwilling have been a lot easier to clean up and a bit more durable, too. The only pay I have any marks in is the big 4 qt sauce pan and that's because I do mashed potatoes in that and my masher has sharper edges than I would normally use anywhere near anything with the ceramic coating. But even there, it's very minor and almost unnoticeable after about 5 years of real use. I certainly have a few favorites...the small 8" skillets are handy for so many things, both for prep and for individual portions, etc. The big 5 qt sauté pan gets a lot of use, too, for pasta meals and some other things where a larger flat bottom comes in handy. On the Staub side, both the 12" skillet and the 12" grill pan get a lot of use, but the little 1 qt rice cooker is da bomb...

I have a "few"... :D

https://u70ang.sn.files.1drv.com/y4miJG7v2E1deaXmcDBReLysakVRaKDT1XUGc5fEhrM9D-xD2j51g1DSbLIi2RWlXRTM1bDF2j3Cufs2YK1pgbJoNx1-tyKtQO_bQ7wCnVlcIu4Mg8lA7wB8inoDwldw0bSJNDorTm0z-UFEcEyMNIINUqKT3aEoQwGtUE1xWL9_AqZMxO1KSBbzMKVBA1K ZD_4ThTjlizQAg9PDqJI4zWnaA?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

What I did to watch costs was to buy them when on sale. I did the same for the Staub enameled cast iron that I adore from the same company as well as the Zwilling Pro knives I also like. For the Staub, I saved even more by buying them with "cosmetic" defects and straying from my normal anal tendencies for colors. :) zwilling.com

Pat Barry

11-24-2019, 3:13 PM

I'd let your bride decide what she wants.

Bill Dufour

11-24-2019, 5:04 PM

AFAIK Berkley and San Jose have not outlawed dryers. This seems like a easy carbon reduction step if there is no plumbing, wiring, or ducting to make it easy later on.
Bil lD

Brian Elfert

11-24-2019, 7:11 PM

AFAIK Berkley and San Jose have not outlawed dryers. This seems like a easy carbon reduction step if there is no plumbing, wiring, or ducting to make it easy later on.

I suspect the thought on the natural gas is that electricity can be generated from non-carbon sources. I suspect residents would be a lot more up in arms about no dryers than not having natural gas although electricity costs much more to heat with.

Mike Henderson

11-24-2019, 7:35 PM

Doug Dawson

11-24-2019, 7:44 PM

Mike Henderson

11-24-2019, 8:22 PM

I don't quite understand. Are you concerned that it would smell like cow farts? This is probably what they think they might have to contend with.
No, I don't understand why you would even think that - such an idea never even occurred to me. Residential natural gas is mostly methane with the addition of an odor chemical. I expect that if they make natural gas from bio mass it will be essentially the same as natural gas obtained from fossil fuel and will have the same smell.

My comment is that if I want to go with renewable energy, I'd go electricity because I can generate electricity from solar panels on my house.

Mike

Doug Dawson

11-24-2019, 8:34 PM

No, I don't understand why you would even think that - such an idea never even occurred to me. Residential natural gas is mostly methane with the addition of an odor chemical. I expect that if they make natural gas from bio mass it will be essentially the same as natural gas obtained from fossil fuel and will have the same smell.

It's gotta go somewhere. It will either be torched, vented, or used for a good purpose.

Jim Becker

11-24-2019, 9:19 PM

I'd let your bride decide what she wants.

That doesn't necessarily work well anymore in many households...you cannot assume the "bride" is the one doing the cooking... ;)

Mike Henderson

11-24-2019, 9:35 PM

It's gotta go somewhere. It will either be torched, vented, or used for a good purpose.

Maybe so, but I can generate electricity free (after the initial purchase of the panels). I have to pay for natural gas each month. If I was inclined to go "renewable" I'd choose to go with electricity.

If you want to go with "renewable" natural gas, that's your business and your choice. I think I've made my choice very clear to you.

Mike

Donald Hofmann

11-26-2019, 3:40 PM

Gas. Notice what the professionals cook on?

Second if the power goes out you can still cook and if you crack a window for ventilation help heat the house

Roger Feeley

11-26-2019, 9:47 PM

+1 for induction cooktop. I get a better simmer than I ever got with gas and it boils much faster.
i timed myself making cook type chocolate pudding. From the time I took the milk from the fridge to the time I put the finished pudding into the fridge was 7 minutes.

ive never had a gas oven but I’ve heard that bread bakers swear by them because of the humidity. Our elic oven came with a little water tray

but, I can attest to the convenience of the ranges with the mini oven over a full size one. We do 95% of our baking in the smaller oven. It preheats fast!

Ruperto Mendiones

11-27-2019, 12:00 AM

5* on wolf induction cooktop--or any good induction one. Ours is faster than gas or resistance electric; the surface is easy to clean and, considering the short time-to-boil intervals, probably no more expensive than gas. Altho I don't do a lot of pastry baking, I'm satisfied with electric ovens.

John Goodin

11-27-2019, 12:06 AM

My bride, an engineer, usually says, “I don’t really care.” It is kind of frustrating since I want her buy in on big purchases. We just remodeled the first floor and she didn’t see the range (gas cooktop with double electric oven) until it was installed. On the other hand I didn’t have to tell her how much it costs.

Brian Elfert

11-28-2019, 2:21 PM

I recently received a survey from my local natural gas supplier. They were asking how I would react if they generated their gas from renewable sources (gas from bio mass). What I told them is if I wanted to go with renewable energy, I'd go electric since I have solar panels on my house. I'd add a few panels to accommodate the extra energy needed.

A few extra solar panels might work for electric heat in California, but not in Minnesota. I have 33 solar panels that will generate just over 10,000 KWH this year. My house had baseboard electric heat when I bought it. The house was using close to 50,000 KWH with electric heat. I would have to install over 100 more panels to go with electric heat.

Heat pumps don't really work in Minnesota without backup heat which is often natural gas. Geothermal is rare because of the high cost to install the loops.

Will Blick

12-05-2019, 11:28 AM

I read most of the responses, but not ALL...but wanted to chime in to OP.
I have had both nat. gas and electric. I find the comparisons interesting...
I will comment on the cost of nrg (energy) factor at the end. Some areas of the USA the two nrg sources are similar, others, one is significantly higher than the other. Here in SCal in MY dual utilities, electricity is 4x higher cost (net usage after efficiency) than nat. gas, but cooking for most households use a very small amount of nrg vs. the entire house.

Cooktop
If you have 2400V/60amp available (I realize OP does NOT, kudos to ww getting the nod over cooking ;) ) an electric cook top, specially infra red, is very impressive. It will boil a pot of water much faster than my 60K BTU gas cooktop. While most of the burners are sized with similar BTU, the electric is very efficient in transfering the heat to the metal pot vs. a flame, which tends to disperse heat around the sides of the pot into the exhaust. So a lot of wasted heat with a flame. I was quite surprised at this finding. Also, Gas is very hard to control at low temps, electric is simple to keep a pot of soup warm, without boiling it.

Oven
The biggest difference is water vapor in the oven. As mentioned above, natural gas combustion by product is mostly water vapor. When cooking meats, this is prob. favorable. When baking cakes, I would think not, as u are trying to remove water content from the cake. With equal thermostats, temp control should be similar. Not all ovens are created equal, there is low / high quality for each.

Other consideriations of the two fuel sources...
With Gas, not only does it discharge CO2, but also CO, a deadly gas, some people are ultra sensitive to it, even at low levels. Headaches, lightheaded, dizzy, fatigue, etc. At sea level, the % of CO release is minimal, but at 3k elevation and higher, its much more significant, so exhaust ventilation is even more critical. Then, for every CFM you exhaust, you will bring in the same amount of CFM of outside air that must heated or cooled. In zero degree weather, or 100 deg weather, this is significant. So add this to the nrg equation. So even with cheaper cost of gas in most areas, this can tilt the cost benefit back to electric.

NRG cost considerations
in some utilities you pay a premium for Peak Demand. An electric range going full bore will surely peak your demand, raising your rates that month, and maybe many months after, based on whether you have a ratchet clause in your tariff. AGain, sometimes this is a non issue... there is still places in USA that charge $.05 per kwh, while others are as high as $.035 per kwh, which is a 7x price variable for the same unit of nrg.

In my world, even with high elect rates here, $.30 kwh, I cook so little, cost is a non issue. I have the elect. capacity as I brought in a new 400amp service. So for me, electric wins for many reasons. Easier on control on cook top, no water vapor from oven, and since I am sensitive to CO2 and CO, all electric is ideal for my use. Hopefully this thread will help others in the future who also contemplate this decision.

Biff Phillips

12-09-2019, 3:27 PM

If you have the budget and like gas, go ahead.

If you live in a warm area, keep in mind that when you are cooking on gas and running that big hood to exhaust the fumes, you are pumping out your air cooled by A/C too.

It's kind of like whether you prefer a Festool or Makita track saw.. they both cut wood.
I don't think the extra expense of gas is worth it, but I would not criticize anyone for choosing it.

Jim Becker

12-09-2019, 4:39 PM

Biff, the big exhaust fan isn't there for removing the fumes from burning gas...it's to relieve what comes off the food and cookware, both for heat and smoke as well as for odors and aerosolized grease. Even folks with traditional electric or the far superior induction cooktops should be using vent hoods while cooking and not the kind that just take air in and put it directly back into the room...the exhaust should "leave the building". I do agree that running an exhaust hood will remove conditioned air (heated or cooled) just as direct venting a dust collection system will do so, but that's only a partial consideration. My hood is 1200 CFM and I can feel the replacement air coming in from other areas when I have it cranked out of necessity! In some jurisdictions, externally exhausting hoods over a cooktop are required...as they should be, IMHO.