Any way to untie this knot?!

[Wade Lippman]

Last week I bought a 100' length of 3/4" nylon rope at a garage sale. It is a bit worn and I have absolutely no use for it, but figured that if I ever needed one it would be a lot more than $8. But after I got it home I found it had a big very tight knot; as shown in the photos.
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It was even worse; the big loop went through the little loop, but I got that out. I thought it would all fall apart then, but it turned out to be the easy part.

Any clever methods for untying a knot like this?

[Tom M King]

Use a pair of Channelock pliers in the middle of the crossing loop in the second picture, pulling it down, and away from the two loops. Try not to tear the fibers, but some will probably suffer. Work it a little at the time, until you can get a wee bit of slack in the surrounding part.

[Matt Day]

A knife? :-)

[Doug Dawson]

Last week I bought a 100' length of 3/4" nylon rope at a garage sale. It is a bit worn and I have absolutely no use for it, but figured that if I ever needed one it would be a lot more than $8. But after I got it home I found it had a big very tight knot; as shown in the photos.
419858419859
It was even worse; the big loop went through the little loop, but I got that out. I thought it would all fall apart then, but it turned out to be the easy part.

Any clever methods for untying a knot like this?

Every man needs a rope. Is this some kind of metaphysical question?

[Timothy Thorpe Allen]

A marlinspike or fid (really any smooth tapered shaft, like even a scratch awl) will help you work/lever the knot open. I would probably start with the top turn in the first picture, trying to work that upward over the left loop (for starters).

[Frederick Skelly]

Sorry Wade. I know that doesnt help.;) I must be reading too much wikipedia lately - it was the first thought I had when I read your title. GORDIAN KNOT (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot)

[Lee Schierer]

A marlinspike or fid (really any smooth tapered shaft, like even a scratch awl) will help you work/lever the knot open. I would probably start with the top turn in the first picture, trying to work that upward over the left loop (for starters).

This works for sailors.....

[Bob Grier]

I don't know if this will help but my experience with nylon sheets (lines, ropes) on sailboats is that they get stiff and dirty from the salt water. When reaching port if they are washed using clothes softener instead of laundry detergent it not only cleans them but also makes them soft and silky to the hand. I'm thinking that it might make your knot easier to untie plus it would clean your new line. Using a spike would be less damaging than channel locks so I would try that first. If you decide to try washing, then braid the line and tie the two ends together before washing in a clothes washer or you will end up with a tangled mess. It is then easy to untie the ends and pull the braid out of the line.

[Timothy Thorpe Allen]

Bob's suggestion of fabric softener is good one. If you don't want to wash the whole coil of rope in your washing machine, you could manually wash just the knot section in a bucket of warm water with some fabric softener added...

[Wade Lippman]

Washing it would have been a great idea if I had read those replies first.:(

Before posting, I got the first part undone with thin screwdrivers. The rest was much too tight to get anything in. I got it moving with locking pliers. Then I was able to use a hammer to keep it moving. The pliers did a fair amount of damage, but at least it is undone.

[Ole Anderson]

Too late, but I was going to mention a hammer. Old water skiers trick to undo a knot in the ski line is to beat it with the handle with the knot on top of the ski pylon to loosen it up.

[lowell holmes]

I have untangled such as that with needle nose pliers. The marlin spike should work as well. Vise grips might loosen the knot.

[Rick Potter]

Landlubber term for Marlin spike..........Phillips screwdriver.

[Tom M King]

A good knot is one that can be untied easily, even after being under a load. At a Fox Hunt, when a horse has pulled back against the lead tied to a trailer, I'm always the one that gets the call to save the lead. It involves pliers usually, and some fraying usually results. If it had been tied with a real knot, it wouldn't have been so hard to untie, and the rope would have had a much better chance of not suffering damage from a pair of pliers.

I was once handed a line to a hot air ballon, that was giving demo rides, up and down, and told to go tie it off. After the event was over, the balloon owners were both over, squatting down, looking at the knot. It was a Bowline knot. One said to the other that they thought they would have to cut the rope. I bent down, and showed them how a push with a thumb, in the middle of the surrounding loop, freed the tension, and allowed it to be easily untied. For several minutes, I stood there, with a small crowd, showing how to tie, and untie, a Bowline knot, just like a young group of Boy Scouts.

I was at the Annapolis Boat Show one year, and Cruising World magazine had a guy at a table, with some lines. If you could tie a Bowline knot in less than 10 seconds, you got a free year's subsription to the magazine. He used a stop watch. I tied 3 in the ten seconds (he only had three lines out), but thanked him for the offer. I told him I wasn't a cruiser, but a racer.

For years, I've tried to tell the Boy Scouts that one of the required knots should be an Alpine Butterfly. It's an easy to tie, and easy to untie knot that you can use to get multiple purchase on a line/rope with, but so far, most of the leaders I talk to have a hard enough time with the Tenderfoot knots.

[Timothy Thorpe Allen]

Hey, if you can't tie a proper knot, tie a lot!

(racer, and cruiser too, here)

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Around the farm, I m forever tieing things with rope or baler twine. Usually a granny knot if I am just going to cut the stuff later. Square knot if it will need to be untied. However, I really had to remember back and did a double half hitch a few days ago. Was down at the river this past summer and a fellow asked me to grab a line as he came into the dock. I twisted loops and put the line on the cleat. He was amazed and apparently had been snaking the line through loops to fasten to a cleat. If there is a useful skill, I learned and remember from my Tenderfoot scout days it is those few knots.

[lowell holmes]

I would use needle nose pliers to untie the knot.

[Edwin Santos]

Have you thought of entering "How to loosen a knot in rope" into Google?
You will get over 1 million hits including videos, articles, blog posts.

[Jim Koepke]

For years, I've tried to tell the Boy Scouts that one of the required knots should be an Alpine Butterfly. It's an easy to tie, and easy to untie knot that you can use to get multiple purchase on a line/rope with, but so far, most of the leaders I talk to have a hard enough time with the Tenderfoot knots.

This one had to be looked up with Dr. Google. Like so many knots it is known by many names depending on who and where it is used.

It is what was taught to me as a Bight Loop or Angler's Knot:

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It is a good knot to know if you need to make a loop in a rope/line when you can't get to the ends.

With it in the picture are two fids or marline spikes made of apple on my lathe. It may not be clear in the picture but the ends are flattened. These are great for getting between different layers of rope in a tight knot.

jtk

[Tom M King]

I learned that knot in one of the first Whole Earth Catalogs, I think in the 1970's. It was shown in a different way to tie than I have seen it since. Two twists in your hand, then the end goes down, around everything, and up through the loops. I don't remember what it was called in that WEC, but had tied it for probably 40 years, without a name, and "Alpine Butterfly" came up when I was teaching it to a group of people, by one person who recognized it. I use it all the time when tying down lumber when a strap isn't the best choice. Regardless of how tight you pull under load, it's easily released by pushing the two loops towards the line ends.

I mainly use it for multiple purchases, when tying something down.

[Timothy Thorpe Allen]

Is this a Trucker's Hitch?

[Tom M King]

That's what I called it for a Long time, and believe that's what it was called in that Whole Earth Catalog. I had forgotten that. I don't think in words, so they evade me a lot of times. There are MANY different types of truckers hitches though. This is the only one that I know of that is easily untied, regardless of the load it's held.

I have about a 10 foot length of 1/4" yacht braid that has been tied to one corner stake pocket at the back of my pickup bed, for maybe as long as 15 years. I've been driving that truck for 19 years. It stays tied because that end is buried behind a built-in toolbox at the back that holds sockets, ratchets, and such. The tail end gets tossed over that toolbox when it's not being used. It's had some number of hundreds of those "truckers' hitches" tied in it, and untied over those years, and there is no frayed area, or untie-able knot in it. It is kind of dirty though.

[Jim Koepke]

Is this a Trucker's Hitch?

The truckers hitch taught to me was similar to a sheep shank. It is used to make a loop in a rope so as to be able to put more tension on it.

419953

It is useful when securing a load in the bed of a truck, hence trucker's hitch.

jtk

[Doug Garson]

The washing idea is also great for nylon straps not just ropes. After a dozen or so seasons the nylon tie down straps for our kayaks had become stiff and difficult to work with, a lot of it was dried salt from sea water combined with road dirt. Was almost going to toss them and go back to ropes when I got the idea to soak them in laundry soap overnight. Made a huge difference. They are now soft and flexible and much easier to use.

[Tom M King]

Whatever it's called, then, and now, the Alpine Butterfly is a much better "truckers hitch", because it's easy to untie. This is the method I use to tie it. At Boy Scout Summer Camp, I used to use it with 5/8" Stablebraid, and a 6:1 sailboat mainsheet system to tighten against it, for a ridgeline to hold up a huge tarp, for a Sun Shade. Even with that line (Tensile strength something like 15,500 lb. tree work "Bull line"), and being tensioned by the 6:1, the Alpine Butterfly was still able to be easily untied by hand.
https://www.netknots.com/download_file/450/0

[Timothy Thorpe Allen]

I think that "Alpine Butterfly" is probably the way my Dad ties his Trucker's Hitch. I always just saw him do some twists and a tuck, all too quickly for me to see exactly what he was doing, and I could never figure it out, so have always fallen back to using a figure eight for the hitch when I need to cinch a load down or otherwise create a purchase -- I'll have to give that a try!

[Edwin Santos]

What the OP has might be the "Double Alpine Butterfly" See below. By the way, Animated Knots has a wealth of knots in the database with slow motion videos demonstrating how to tie them. Very useful.



https://youtu.be/85pi8bGliIA

[Jim Koepke]

I think that "Alpine Butterfly" is probably the way my Dad ties his Trucker's Hitch. I always just saw him do some twists and a tuck, all too quickly for me to see exactly what he was doing, and I could never figure it out, so have always fallen back to using a figure eight for the hitch when I need to cinch a load down or otherwise create a purchase -- I'll have to give that a try!

The knot in my previous post is different from my dad's trucker's hitch. My brother ties it much quicker than me. Here is a quick shot of how it is done.

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To the right the line is secured on a cleat/pin/hook. The line goes around a hook or cleat. The slack is passed over the bight (line between the cleats) and a loop in the bight comes under then over the slack. Above where the slack rests on the bight a turn is created. (a loop is when the line doesn't cross itself a turn is a loop made with the line crossing itself.)

The loop is passed through the turn:

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Pull the slack:

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This will enable the line to be pulled tighter than if the line were to be pulled against a cleat alone.

The alpine butterfly used to form a trucker's hitch takes longer to tie and the end of the rope has to be fed through as it can not be in the loop when the butterfly is being tied.

No matter how one ties a load, it is good practice to keep an eye on your load and to check your lines anytime a stop is made for a rest or gas.

jtk

Note: The naming of the image, "Loop & Turn Under the Bight should be ignored. It should be Loop & Turn in the Bight Under the Slack

[Tom M King]

Sorry, but the Alpine Butterfly does not take longer to tie. It might take 2, or 3 seconds, so if that one can be tied quicker, it can't be by much. I do it a little different than that drawing, but I really can't explain it, other than rather than passing the loop under, I come back over the top, and go under, coming up through the loops. It's very easy to untie, even after being under a severe load, because you can push the loops away from each other in both directions, which makes it much easier than trying to push one surrounding loop one direction.

I do leave the tail end out until after the knot is tied, but I can put the loop exactly where I want it on the line, which comes in handy a lot of times when you are at the limit of the line length.

That's a good knot too, but I can't believe it can be tied faster than an AB.

[Jim Koepke]

Sorry, but the Alpine Butterfly does not take longer to tie. It might take 2, or 3 seconds, so if that one can be tied quicker, it can't be by much. I do it a little different than that drawing, but I really can't explain it, other than rather than passing the loop under, I come back over the top, and go under, coming up through the loops. It's very easy to untie, even after being under a severe load, because you can push the loops away from each other in both directions, which makes it much easier than trying to push one surrounding loop one direction.

I do leave the tail end out until after the knot is tied, but I can put the loop exactly where I want it on the line, which comes in handy a lot of times when you are at the limit of the line length.

That's a good knot too, but I can't believe it can be tied faster than an AB.

Feeding the end of the line through is one part of how the TH illustrated in my last post is faster than using an AB. The ropes used on my truck are usually 20-25'. Sometimes the end is on the bed a few feet away. With the TH, one doesn't need to have the end to pull it tight and secure it with a cinch knot. For me, compared to my younger brother, tying a TH is slow. He can tie it faster than one can say it. Using an AB to make a loop would be slower for me.

When untying a TH, once the tension is off it can often be undone by a good shake of the line.

The AB is also one of my oft used knots. Though before it being mentioned in this thread it was known to me by different names.

One advantage the AB has over the TH is the AB is not going to capsize. The TH can capsize if it is tied in a sloppy manner or violently disturbed.

jtk