Lacquer over Danish oil?

[Thomas Wilson80]

Hi - I’m making an urn and initially used Danish oil to pop the grain and it looks great, but I’d like it a bit more polished than I can get with the DO and wondered about using some deft brush on lacquer.

Can I put that on top of the Danish oil or would it be best to sand down? If I can put on top, how long do I need to wait after applying the DO (i.e. does the Danish oil need to fully cure before applying lacquer)?
thanks - Tom

[Edward Dyas]

According to the MSDS on at least the Watco brand oil finish it contains vegetable oil. Personally I wouldn't want that on wood I was going to put a film finish on. You can make the grain pop by using linseed oil or even a natural stain. These products are certainly compatible with a solvent lacquer. If you are going to use lacquer over Watco, someone said you should allow it to dry 72 hours.

[Art Mann]

If it is Watco brand Danish Oil, it already contains some varnish. It probably does anyway, regardless of brand. I think it would be preferable to just apply a couple more coats of that to increase the shine. What I have done with boxes and mantle clocks I have made and finished with Watco is to wax the surface with a few coats of Johnson's paste wax. It increases the sheen plus makes the surface feel silky smooth. All you have to do to bring back the appearance after several years is to buff the surface with a soft cotton rag. The only down side to this simple finish schedule is it doesn't provide a coating that is extremely durable. Given your particular application, I doubt if that would be a problem.

By the way, linseed oil is a "vegetable" oil but people apply polyurethane or lacquer over it routinely without any problems. Watco is actually a mixture like that. I don't understand Mr. Dyas' objection to using it that way.

[Larry Frank]

I just looked at the MSDS for Watco Danish Oil.I do not see vegetable oil.

419390

I have used shellac, spray can lacquer and poly successfully over Watco Danish Oil.

[robert baccus]

A regular procedure around here--let it cure a day or two first.

[Jared Sankovich]

No issues at all, just let it dry before the lacquer is applied.

This was fumed, tinted, danish oiled and then lacquered.
419392

[Pat Scott]

Danish oil is a generic term for a mixture of oil and poly. If concerned about using lacquer, either apply more coats of DO or apply straight poly. Depending on the type of wood it may take 4-5 coats of DO before you start to get a glossy sheen.

[Thomas Wilson80]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Very useful info. Hopefully can get to it later this week and will let you know how it goes/post pics.

Tom

[Mike Nathal]

Buffing will increase the glossiness of DO significantly

[John K Jordan]

I typically apply 6-10 coats of "danish" oil, letting dry and sometimes wet sanding with fine paper between coats. The buildup is slow but after enough coats you can buff to a high shine if desired.

JKJ

[Thomas Wilson80]

I recently bought a buffing system and still don't have a lot of experience - my first try at it didn't go so well, but maybe I'll give it another shot.

John, I know you've written about your process before, but when you buff with Vonex, do you use other compounds too or just the vonex, one and done?

And what speeds do you do it at? I had a hollow form with some wipe on Deft lacquer that had cured for several months and when I got my buffing system, I used some Vonex with it at moderate speeds (500-600 RPM) and it looks like it took all of the lacquer off and left the wood slightly shiny but more natural looking (I ended up liking the result better than the lacquer for this particular form so I left it, but for my current urn, I would like something more shiny/finished looking so don't want the same thing to happen).
Thanks,
Tom

[John K Jordan]

I recently bought a buffing system and still don't have a lot of experience - my first try at it didn't go so well, but maybe I'll give it another shot.

John, I know you've written about your process before, but when you buff with Vonex, do you use other compounds too or just the vonex, one and done?

And what speeds do you do it at? I had a hollow form with some wipe on Deft lacquer that had cured for several months and when I got my buffing system, I used some Vonex with it at moderate speeds (500-600 RPM) and it looks like it took all of the lacquer off and left the wood slightly shiny but more natural looking (I ended up liking the result better than the lacquer for this particular form so I left it, but for my current urn, I would like something more shiny/finished looking so don't want the same thing to happen).
Thanks,
Tom

I use the vonex then maybe carnauba wax, no other abrasive. The speed is maybe 1500 or higher at first, then very slow for final buffing. The abrasive is applied VERY lightly to the wheel and the wheel is applied very lightly to the wood. Any time I've used too much abrasive it's been a mistake. I've never tried power buffing lacquer, it removing a thin coat of lacquer is believable. The oil down someone in the wood so it's not really a film finish like lacquer.

But I usually prefer the soft sheen natural look for wood. I'm not as much of a fan of high gloss mirror polished finishes. I have made some glossy pieces with multiple coats of poly and one with maybe 6 coats of lacquer, hand rubbed with polishing compound. Sometimes a piece looks too polished to me so i cut it back with pumice and/or 0000 steel wool.

David Marks once told me the finish he uses for many things, both furniture and turnings. I've got details somewhere in my notes but he describes it here: https://www.djmarks.com/davids-blog/faq/ under "David's Preferred Hand Rubbed Finish."

JKJ

[Edward Dyas]

I just looked at the MSDS for Watco Danish Oil.I do not see vegetable oil.

419390

I have used shellac, spray can lacquer and poly successfully over Watco Danish Oil.On this one it's listed on pages 4 and 5. https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/msds/watco-danish-oil-MSDS.pdf

[Larry Frank]

I stand corrected about the vegetable oil. But, it does not affect the ability to use finish over it.

I have no idea why on the MSDS they do not list all the ingredients in one place.

[Mike Nathal]

I use the Beall buffing system. I usually sand to 400 grit before applying the DO, 2 coats for most woods. After letting it sit for at least a week, I start buffing with the tripoli wheel followed by white diamond, followed by the wax wheel. I just got some Vonax and have used it in place of the white diamond, but still use the tripoli wheel first. I use a motor with a fixed speed of 1700 rpm. Sometimes the 8 inch tripoli wheel is too stiff at this rpm, so I switch to a 4 inch wheel. A DO finish can tolerate rather high applied pressure and a stiff wheel. Buffing DO produces a nice semi-gloss sheen, perhaps it could even be called glossy. If I want a higher gloss finish I would probably use oil base poly on top of the DO, but lacquer would also work. Several coats are usually required. A lighter touch with buffing a film finish is needed, especially with lacquer. I wet sand a film finish with 400 grit paper to get rid of nibs and any runs or brush marks prior to buffing.

[Thomas Wilson80]

Thanks everyone for the input. I really appreciate it!
Tom