Vesper Sliding Bevel & Box

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Hi guys,

I picked up a Sliding Bevel from Chris Vesper last weekend and just wanted to say that while it's not cheap it genuinely is an amazingly good sliding bevel.

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Aside from the fact it's machined beautifully and looks great the blade locking mechanism works extremely well. Whilst other bevels i own slip quite easily and i always have to be very careful not to bump the blade or even apply side force while using a marking knife, the Vesper locks down SOLID - like really solid.

The more subtle details include the way the blade always sits slightly proud of the top of the body but recesses into the left/right sides so that you always capture/transfer angles properly (body doesn't get in the way if that makes sense).

Anyway, i'm really happy with it. So much so that when i was bored last weekend I knocked up a little Blackwood box to house it! Mainly hand tools used, but I'll admit that I used a bandsaw, hand drill and even a trim router to cut the stopped dado's...

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Cheers, Dom

[Brian Holcombe]

Beautiful! Very nice work.

[David Eisenhauer]

Not a bad looking tool, Dom, but that box is the cat's behind for sure. Nice, nice work.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Thanks guys, much appreciated!

The box came about as I was cutting practise dovetail corners and after about 6 I thought; I could have made a box and got the practise at the same time! Looking around the bench for what the box would house I saw the new bevel and it seemed as good an application as any!

I did learn that 6 scrap corners is still a lot faster than making a whole box tho! Inevitably there is head scratching on design choice, wood selection and of course stock prep, finishing etc. At least there is something to hold at the end though I guess :).

Cheers, Dom

[David Eisenhauer]

But did you use the new bevel gauge to lay out the dovetails?

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

But did you use the new bevel gauge to lay out the dovetails?


Haha, unfortunately I did not. I have gotten into the habit of just marking the top lines across the tail board and then cutting the angle by feel/eye most of the time. When I do mark out I use some sterling-toolworks clone dovetail markers I made. The 7" Vesper bevel would be too large for a small box like this IMO - at least with the way I work which had me marking the dovetails once the board is already in the vise.

Cheers,

Dom

[Derek Cohen]

Very nice box, Dom. I assume that you marked it out with a Versper-made Cohen knife? :)

Perhaps you should talk Chris into a range of your custom boxes for his gauges. They are worthy of each other.

Regards from Perth

Derek .... with 4" and 7" sliding bevels, both of which came in cardboard boxes :(

[Rob Luter]

Nice box. Really nice bevel. I'm assuming it works in the same fashion as the Stanley #18? They are also rock solid and a favorite of mine.

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[Derek Cohen]

I have the #18, and it is very good. However, the Vesper is a lot more solid, easier to adjust and gorgeous to boot.

It's like comparing a Stanley to a Holtey. Both can do the job, but one is perfection.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Warren Mickley]

Nice box. Really nice bevel. I'm assuming it works in the same fashion as the Stanley #18? They are also rock solid and a favorite of mine.

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I met Chris Vesper in 2011. As I looked over one of his bevels, he told me the Stanley 18 bevels don't work. "They don't hold a setting."

I said "Sure they work, I have used one since 1978."

He said "they don't work"

Pitiful what people will say to sell product.

[Derek Cohen]

Well thanks Warren. I'm sure that will do to kill this thread.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Walsh]

Well I’m gonna throw some love out there for Chris and the absolute perfection of his tools both in function and beauty. Add to it he might be one of the nicest and most patient people I have ever had the pleasure of doing business with.

I am the proud owner of his three piece ambuya burl bevel set. I also have a 4 and 10” square in ebony. His small combo square kit, his marking knife in ebony, the Cohen knife in ebony and a 7” square set to arrive well someday I guess.

I’d share pictures but I’m a bum leaching off SMC not contributing. I think I’ll try and fix that this weekend.

The last thing I’d take Chris as is a guy that will say nothing to make a sale.

So let’s bring the positivity back to this thread as Chris and his work and both exceptional.

And no I’m not a fan boy. It’s rare I like someone honestly and my opinion of Chris is based on my interactions with him and the service he provides.


Well thanks Warren. I'm sure that will do to kill this thread.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

I met Chris Vesper in 2011. As I looked over one of his bevels, he told me the Stanley 18 bevels don't work. "They don't hold a setting."

I said "Sure they work, I have used one since 1978."

He said "they don't work"

Pitiful what people will say to sell product.

Even my pre-Stanley #18 bevels work. Just don't try dropping them on the floor or abusing them and they hold well enough to get the job done. One thing that is done each time one of my bevels is to be used is to use a piece of scrap to make a check for each bevel used so they can be checked against a known mark.

It isn't the tool, it is the user.

The Vesper is a beautiful tool and Dominik, the box is also very nice to see.

jtk

[Rob Luter]

I have the #18, and it is very good. However, the Vesper is a lot more solid, easier to adjust and gorgeous to boot.

It's like comparing a Stanley to a Holtey. Both can do the job, but one is perfection.

Regards from Perth

Derek

No argument here. They are real lookers. Alas, my wallet is a bit thin for that kind of bench candy. My trio of #18 will need to get me by.

[Patrick Walsh]

As a maker of things I have found a few, well things.

First if hand made you have to make very very nice or fine things. As a result you also must largely not solely cater to those whom can afford such luxury. Be it a Bugatti or a piece of furniture it best be nicer than the next guy as it probably cost just as much to make nice vrs “nice” if it’s truly hand made.

I have also found that generally people want nice stuff but when they come to understand the price involved in nice and hand made vrs off the shelf mass produced they often are not willing to pay for it. Largely I find even the wealthy to be very cheap. Few people seem to want to compensate anyone be it a guy in a one man shop working 12-15 hrs a day to survive or a sweat shop in China for what it is they want unless it’s some kinda deal. I find this puzzling and a broken way of rationalizing priorities. We all have something we will spend whatever on regardless of price. For some it’s food and booze for some it a collectible.

On the other hand these same people that will nickel and dime you on a one off pice of furniture or a Uber high end kitchen have no problem spending on top of the line appliances or a Land Rover or Benz a fancy watch or very expensive clothing. So often I build a $80k kitchen that depending on the shop and client could easily fetch $112 or $120K but the people you are building it for would never pay that. But then your get the appliance info and you realize they spent $55-70K on a Kitchen full of Subzero and Wolf appliances.

As a maker my whole life the above has made clear to me one truth. Somebody has got to support us makers or we go away. I do my part as I can when I can/ Sure it’s expensive for a bevel but it’s well within reach of most any working person if they want it bad enough plus you will have it forever and as a maker i use it everyday all day. I feel the same about machinery also. If Martin looses a demand for its machines and the market shrinks they go away and I’m stuck with junk tin can machinery if I want new.

I take the same approach if I need a plumber a electrician or a doctor. We all gotta get paid. Everything has become so expensive hat even us schleps that make stuff with our hands have to expect to be compensated like every other guy on the block.

What shouldn’t we.

I do get that there is a huge sector of the population that just can not justify a $400 bevel. So what I’m saying is not without understand and or compassion for that.

I personally do my best where I can when I can to support other makers and or working people. For what they are and I. Sure the time involved in making them I consider chris’s Tools a value if nothing else.



No argument here. They are real lookers. Alas, my wallet is a bit thin for that kind of bench candy. My trio of #18 will need to get me by.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Very nice box, Dom. I assume that you marked it out with a Versper-made Cohen knife? :)

Perhaps you should talk Chris into a range of your custom boxes for his gauges. They are worthy of each other.

Regards from Perth

Derek .... with 4" and 7" sliding bevels, both of which came in cardboard boxes :(

Actually yes I did! It's a great knife for small dovetails. Although it wasn't as critical as usual as I made the centre pin fatter than i like because originally i had intended to cut the box in half through that pin (then thought it may not be quite thick enough for that!).

That would be cool, but I suspect that there may not be many people willing to pay more on top of the price of a tool like this for a wooden box.

Chris' tools are really top notch and I think the price, while certainly not cheap, is very fair. I am also happy to support boutique makers of quality products. It wasn't that long ago, albeit before my time, that you couldn't buy new high quality hand tools, and I don't want to see that time come again!

Cheers, Dom

[Derek Cohen]

Well I’m gonna throw some love out there for Chris and the absolute perfection of his tools both in function and beauty. Add to it he might be one of the nicest and most patient people I have ever had the pleasure of doing business with.....

.....First if hand made you have to make very very nice or fine things. As a result you also must largely not solely cater to those whom can afford such luxury. Be it a Bugatti or a piece of furniture it best be nicer than the next guy as it probably cost just as much to make nice vrs “nice” if it’s truly hand made.


I do get that there is a huge sector of the population that just can not justify a $400 bevel. So what I’m saying is not without understand and or compassion for that.

I personally do my best where I can when I can to support other makers and or working people. For what they are and I. Sure the time involved in making them I consider chris’s Tools a value if nothing else.

Well said, Patrick.

I know Chris very well. I am proud to count him among my friends. He is an extremely talented toolmaker, and there are few in the woodworking world with his ability. He strives for perfection, and rightly is passionate about the pieces he makes. I know the long hours he puts in, and he has a waiting list of buyers because he also takes the time to attend wood shows to demonstrate his tools ... they really need to be seen in person to appreciate their extraordinary quality, and a quality of workmanship that also translates into improved use. One might not need a Martin sliding table saw to create furniture ... but, oh man, we can appreciate one when it is used.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

I have also found that generally people want nice stuff but when they come to understand the price involved in nice and hand made vrs off the shelf mass produced they often are not willing to pay for it.

My funny story on this was with my first potting bench made to be sold at a Farmers Market. A woman came up and looked at it and commented on the dovetail joinery. She said her husband was a woodworker and would it be okay for him to come look at it so she could show him what she wanted. My reply was, "no problem, take pictures if you like." Her husband came and looked at it and asked how much? After telling him the price and saying that $25 could be knocked off if they didn't need me to deliver it, he said, "let me go get some money and my truck."


That would be cool, but I suspect that there may not be many people willing to pay more on top of the price of a tool like this for a wooden box.

My thought on that is anyone purchasing a tool like that to actually use should be able to make a nice box.

Part of my learning woodworking has been to make my own boxes and fixtures for woodworking.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

My thought on that is anyone purchasing a tool like that to actually use should be able to make a nice box.

Part of my learning woodworking has been to make my own boxes and fixtures for woodworking.

jtk

Jim, while I share this attitude with you, I accept that there are many reason to purchase tools. Some just like to buy, own and display their tools. They may never use them. Others pride themselves in having as few as possible, using them creatively and with great skill. It is easy to get cynical of those that do things differently ... oh cr@p ... it is Sunday morning and I am sermonising. Sorry (in truth, avoiding reports that have to be written before I can get to the workshop).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Jim, while I share this attitude with you, I accept that there are many reason to purchase tools. Some just like to buy, own and display their tools. They may never use them. Others pride themselves in having as few as possible, using them creatively and with great skill. It is easy to get cynical of those that do things differently ... oh cr@p ... it is Sunday morning and I am sermonising. Sorry (in truth, avoiding reports that have to be written before I can get to the workshop).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Just to add to these comments and my own; if someone were willing to pay extra for a tool nicely presented in a box, surely these types of top-of-the-line, 'luxury' tools would be where that would be possible. Especially if it was bought as a gift.

I guess it's like workbenches, or shop appliances, or wood mallets, etc - I aways feel that there wouldn't be a market for them, as woodworkers could, and i feel would want to, make their own. But clearly there are many who have the means and just want nice stuff - their focus is on making, or learning to make, other things.

Cheers, Dom

[Jim Koepke]

Jim, while I share this attitude with you, I accept that there are many reason to purchase tools.


I guess it's like workbenches, or shop appliances, or wood mallets, etc - I aways feel that there wouldn't be a market for them, as woodworkers could, and i feel would want to, make their own. But clearly there are many who have the means and just want nice stuff - their focus is on making, or learning to make, other things.

Yes, there is any number of motivations for what people do.

My first mallet is still in my shop and was store bought. At the time there wasn't anyone teaching me how to create joinery. My feelings have changed a little. Now it seems a woodworker just starting out would do better to build some of their shop appliances and such for the educational factor. But, it is also understandable that some people do not have enough extra time to build such things, but they do have the money to purchase the items that are commonly shop made.

jtk

[Rob Luter]

Feeling a bit sad that my query about the operation of the Vesper bevel as compared to the Stanley #18 stirred up such a fuss. My intent was to focus on the clamping method differing from Disston and others who locate a clamp screw lever or wing nut at the pivot point. The Vesper products are real jewels and I wish I could rationalize the cost. Even though I strive to support individual craftsman as often as possible, utility sometimes wins out.

Regarding cost.....

In my working life I have occasion to purchase various custom tooling. The tool shops I use couldn't reproduce a Velper bevel for less than three or four times his selling price without tooling up a production run of a couple hundred pieces. I applaud Vesper's ability to keep the cost as low as it is.

[Jim Koepke]

Feeling a bit sad that my query about the operation of the Vesper bevel as compared to the Stanley #18 stirred up such a fuss.

Another way to look at this Rob is it "stirred up such a fuss" because it is a topic of interest to others. Some merely hold their feelings with more passion on the subject.

jtk

[Tony Shea]

I don't actually own Vesper's bevel yet, but I do own 3 Stanley #18's. These bevels do actually work but I don't think Vesper is wrong in saying that they don't work. I don't care how tight you get the Stanley, if you bump the far end of the blade off your bench while using this then your setting will move. I have 3 different examples of this bevel and they all are exactly the same in this respect. I have been able to play around with Vesper's bevel at the last LN Open House in Warren Maine and I can guarantee his bevel WILL NOT move. It is an engineering and machining marvel. Not to mention it is not bad to look at either. I am certainly going to own one some day but just can't justify the expense yet. I do NOT think these are over priced for the insane tolerances Chris is working at. I also own a Blue Spruce bevel and even this bevel is not at the level of craftsmanship that the Vesper is. The Blue Spruce locks down tight but once loose is not all that loose. To me the Vesper bevel is PERFECT and well worth the expense.

[Brian Holcombe]

I’ve had a vesper sliding bevel for around 7-8 years now, use it constantly. It works beautifully, my only regret are that the little 4” version has been out of stock for a while.

Chris’ work is very much worth the asking price, in my experience. There are no details left unconsidered.

Chris puts up a lot of info on his work, I’ve seen him post up squares accurate to under a micron. That doesn’t happen by accident.

[Derek Cohen]

Chris puts up a lot of info on his work, I’ve seen him post up squares accurate to under a micron. That doesn’t happen by accident.

Nicely said, Brian.

Those who understand what it takes to reach this level of work are less likely to argue the price. There are lesser products available for less cost if money is a limit. And so it is in life and all things.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

I’ve never used a Stanley 18, so if Warren says they work well I’m certain they work well. Chris design works beautifully for me.

[Derek Cohen]

I have a Stanley #18 and use it. I do not have any complaints about it compared with other sliding bevels. It does an excellent job of holding an angle. I have no doubt it would be reliable for minor bumps. Anything I drop from my bench would be checked and possibly reset, including a Vesper. The #18 is not in the same class as the Vesper in regard to quality and looks. The Vesper just feels so much more solid as it is not only heavier (which is a good thing when balancing on an edge), but the arms are thick, stiff and non-corroding stainless steel. It screams precision tool, while the #18 is unostentatious and workmanlike. Both work.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

I tend to class Chris' stuff in with my tools from Starrett, Mitutoyo, Taft-Piece and Japan Automatic Machine. I use the sliding bevel to setup my Bridgeport spindle at times when precision less than a sine plate is needed. Often enough I think Chris' does a better job on chamfering edges.