Chairs finished - finally

[Bill Carey]

Finally got the seats back from the upholstery guy, put them on, and I'm finally finished with the chairs. It'll be a while before I tackle chairs again. At least a couple of months - gotta use what I learned before I forget it!
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The inspiration came from this Macintosh chair, and without any plans I tried to stay within these standards.
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I wasn't real fond of the flat top rail, hence the dog ears on the tops of the back legs. And in retrospect I would shorten the angle of the back - they are a bit tippy. Something I might need to address. We'll see. And I thought the curved side stretchers would soften up the otherwise pretty hard lines of the chair. Didn't care for the curve on the back side.
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I had 2 major problems during the build. (other than having never built any chairs!) The first was that I made an error cutting the tenons on the side stretchers - they were slightly off angle because of the dumb ass way I cut them, so I had to glue pads on all of them and recut them.
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The other was preparing the flat landing area on the back legs for the bottom stretchers. I planed them to a pattern which allowed very slight errors to creep in, changing the angle slightly and making fitup a nightmare. Every shoulder needed to be fit to the leg. But at least I got a nice LN shoulder plane out of the deal. Next time I'll line them all up, clamped together and plane the flat landing area on all of them at once. At least I think that'll work better.
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All in all a fun build, and a real learning experience. And for my first chairs, I'm pretty pleased.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Well done Bill!

[David Eisenhauer]

Thanks for sharing Bill. I don't know why, but I have always thought that "chairs" are near to the top of the heap when it comes to woodworking. I have not taken the step yet and you are helping me move that way. I don't want to jump into swoopy Windsor types, just comfortable, useful, well made (not falling apart any time soon) chair type chairs. I like what you came up with. Question: How expensive was the upholstery work? I have a table to do after finishing up my current project, and I believe that I will tackle some chairs for the table after the table.

[Bill Carey]

Hey David. There's a guy near me who does nice work. He charged me 60 bucks a chair, which included all materials. Fabric is a commercial product.

[David Eisenhauer]

Thanks Bill. I had an idea that upholsery could be very expensive. Hopefully I can find a deal more like yours.

[John TenEyck]

Nice work Bill. I agree that the seat back angle looks a little too laid back, and that probably makes them feel a bit unstable if you lean back. I haven't built many chairs, but when I have I've always made a prototype, or three, to work out the geometry and to make sure it sits as good as it looks. Another thing that helps me is to first make full size drawings. With them you can really see how the joinery goes together and check the actual parts against the drawing as you build.

John

[Mel Fulks]

BOLD! That "tippiness" could be adjusted by user with a bolster pillow fitted with Velcro. Children might enjoy being
photographed in that early TV seat and stretcher frame.

[David Utterback]

Nice job. You might reduce the 'tippiness' by shortening the front legs a tad. Of course, it would change the seat angle but might still be within the comfort range. You could just remove the buttons from the front legs to get a notion of the effect.

I am in the midst of building chairs and have been for quite some time. The first prototype looks more like a throne than a kitchen chair. The 2nd just needs a back splat design that I just cannot commit to. These decisions are the reason it takes me so long to complete designs. Well, that and good golf and/or fishing weather.

[Bill Carey]

Hey David - yes, cutting something off the front legs was my thought as well. Or I could screw a 10 lb chunk of lead to the front stretcher. :D

For some reason I can never convince myself to make prototypes - always seems like a waste of time and wood. I understand the logic behind it, and agree that it is probably a good idea for some things, like these chairs. Definitely these chairs. But it was fun building without any plans - I kinda knew what I wanted but as the pieces got made I changed a lot of it. For instance, the pieces I cut for the front bottom stretchers got put in the cut off bin at the last minute, for no better reason that I can articulate other than Just Cuz.

[Mark Rainey]

Good work Bill! I have yet to take on chairs and I admire your enthusiasm. I want to build a nice size dining room table, but know that I would want to build the chairs also. You have motivated me!

[Carl Beckett]

For some reason I can never convince myself to make prototypes - always seems like a waste of time and wood. I understand the logic behind it, and agree that it is probably a good idea for some things, like these chairs. Definitely these chairs. But it was fun building without any plans - I kinda knew what I wanted but as the pieces got made I changed a lot of it. For instance, the pieces I cut for the front bottom stretchers got put in the cut off bin at the last minute, for no better reason that I can articulate other than Just Cuz.

I tend to not like planning or working off plans. A sketch....

And did a set of 6 chairs a while back. I like everything about them ... but... they are just slightly off in a couple dimensions so not quite as comfortable as I would have liked (they are 'ok', but I was wanting them to feel perfect/cozy when sitting in them, although for the size of my kids bodies they seem to fit better). My rear legs could have splayed out a bit farther to the back (not tippy but not as stable as could be). And the cushions, once made, shifted the seating dimensions a bit.

As such I have considered making some new ones, and tweaking the design slightly to fix it. I may some day, maybe. But it kinda made me think that instead of one prototype to get all this worked out, I kinda built 6 prototypes.... :rolleyes:

Your chairs look great! I think chairs are one of these things that by the time you build 4 or 5 different designs (of course in batches of 6 or 8), you will be pretty good at it and have it down.

[Bill Carey]

Thanks for the comments gents. As far as dimensions and angles that chair standards drawing was referenced often during the build. That and a white board was all I needed. And I'm going to cut a 1/2" off the front legs to try to reduce the tippiness - which isn't helped by all the wood incorporated in the back of the chairs. Would have been better if I had extended the bottom curve of the back legs out more. Oh well. As you say Carl, for 4 prototypes I'm ok with how they turned out. And the Boss loves them so all good.

One of the advantages we hobbyists have over the pros is that we can start with just a blue sky session and a pile of wood and go in whatever direction we want. We aren't feeding the family but just our souls with what we do - not to say pros don't also have that feeling, but we certainly don't work under the pressure they do. I started a couple of plant stands with no more idea than I want the tops to kinda float, with maybe a small oriental feel. One walnut and one red oak. Just finished cleaning up the boards so don't really know what they will look like yet. Only have a general idea of the height and size of the top based on where they will go and the size plants we'll put on them. And then a farm table and simple chairs for my grand daughter.

For me, it's just a fun way to work.

[Bill Carey]

Finally got around to cutting 1/2" off the front legs and that has made a dramatic difference in how tippy the chairs are. When I made them, I had the 5/8" difference between the height of the front legs and the back legs, giving the seat about 5 or 6 degrees of fall toward the back. Per the chair standards I found. But having cut the 1/2" off, I find the chairs to be more comfortable than they were before. I guess a nearly level seat is more to my liking than the standard 5 to 10 degree slope toward the back. But having used these chairs for a while now, I really like them, and am well pleased with them - prototypes or not.

[Prashun Patel]

very interesting. Is it because a higher back creates more of a tendency to tip back? Chair geometry fascinates (reads 'eludes') me.

[Edwin Santos]

very interesting. Is it because a higher back creates more of a tendency to tip back? Chair geometry fascinates (reads 'eludes') me.

Prashun,

In my view these chairs were tippy because of the relationship of the back two legs and the seat back. I was taught that if you took a plumb bob from the top of the chair back and hung it down to the floor, ideally the back legs should be no more than 1" forward or 2" back of the line. In this case, the back legs were too far forward of this imaginary line which is an invitation to tip city. The tall back of the chairs added to this dilemma a little bit by increasing the length of this "lever" but the main issue is where the load from the seated person is occurring.

Look around at chairs in your environment and they will invariably all follow this rule, and so does the reference drawing. I should add that in the case of a chair with a very tall back, the plumb line can and should be taken from 33" above the floor because this is the point on the back where the load is happening for the average person.

BTW, not criticizing the OP's work, in fact I think he made a great effort. It's just that we're talking about chair design issues, and I thought it might help to share what I have learned. I think cutting the front legs was about the only solution because doing so partially counteracted the existing tip angle, and in the end these are going to be fine chairs indeed.

[Bill Carey]

very interesting. Is it because a higher back creates more of a tendency to tip back? Chair geometry fascinates (reads 'eludes') me.


Tends to elude me as well. The backs are pretty high, and heavy, which is a big part of the tippy problem. And the angle is too much - next set I'll decrease the angle the backs are at which will help a lot. As you can see the back is pretty far out from the curved leg as it hits the floor. I thought about moving the bottom side stretcher up, which would have allowed me to make a bigger curve on the bottom of the leg, thus decreasing the amount the back overhangs, but it didn't look right to me. These chairs were purely a build and learn experience. But discovering that I prefer a more level seat is something that will be included in the next set. For better or for worse - won't know till I get there.
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[Bill Carey]

Agree 100% Edwin. We have not experienced a tendency to tip when someone is sitting in them, just when moving them. But I'm sure someone someday will lean back and then..........

I also worry about the grain pattern at the curve where it hits the floor. Didn't do a very good job of laying these out - should have tried to make the grain straight at that point, if possible. Next time I try something like this I'll laminate the legs I think. I'm worried that sooner or later I'm gonna loose a piece of the back of the leg at the floor. But I'm 72 so I'll take the over on this one, and let my kids figure it out. :D

[Prashun Patel]

It's really hard to find a piece with the perfect grain pattern over this length - for one chair, let alone multiple.

What you might try next time is to make or buy these pieces riven from straight, green wood. It's not cheap, but you can steam bend them pretty easily. It makes for perfect looking, and the strongest grain.

In fact, if your bends are not that drastic, you may be even able to soak and steam kiln dried wood. Anyway, I appreciate the build-and-learn approach. I resemble that remark!

Great you found a way to address the issue for some otherwise good looking chairs.

[Von Bickley]

Great looking chairs & great craftsmanship. You can be proud of those.