#5 Planes

[ken hatch]

I normally just keep a couple of #5 planes in the tool cabinet behind the main workbench. A (I think) type 11 to 13 Stanley with a cutter sharpened as a Jack plane and a LN with Veritas O1 iron sharpened with less camber. The LN with the thinner Veritas iron is still a heavy sucker. I also have a stack of #5 Japanese bi-metal replacement irons and a few Stanley #5 stuck in various cubbly holes in the shop, not many like some have but a few. I haven't rust hunted in a number of years. Nothing wrong with hunting and restoring rust but I'd rather make thing. BTW I weighted the planes and all the Stanleys came in around 2100 g. while the LN is a hefty over 2500g. even with the lighter Veritas iron. Four hundred grams doesn't sound like much but it feels like a lot.

The line up. The Stanleys run from a Type 9 to type 11 and 13 with one Bedrock in the mix. I expect to work through the bunch picking the best to replace the LN in the tool cabinet. While some have OEM cutters, the OEM cutters will be replaced with Japanese irons.

418669

The Japanese irons come with very flat backs, are easy to sharpen, being high carbon steel get very sharp and hold the edge very well. Here is a photo of the back of one of the Japanese replacement irons after just a few swipes on a 600 grit diamond stone. It is ready to go to the finishing stones.

418670

ken

[Jason Buresh]

Looks like a great line up! Where do you order the replacement irons from?

[ken hatch]

Looks like a great line up! Where do you order the replacement irons from?

Jason,

They came from "Tools from Japan" which is no longer in business. I'm sure one of the other importers will have them. Look for Japanese Stanley replacement irons.

ken

[Jim Koepke]

One or the great things about some of these old planes they are easy to find inexpensively and fix up to sell for a profit.

That is how the coin came my way to purchase a few better planes like an LN #62.

jtk

[Winston Chang]

Jason,

They came from "Tools from Japan" which is no longer in business. I'm sure one of the other importers will have them. Look for Japanese Stanley replacement irons.

ken

I think you can get the same blades from Axminster in the UK:

https://www.axminster.co.uk/japanese-laminated-plane-blades-ax22303

[David Eisenhauer]

Thanks Winston.

[Mike Brady]

Ken, I'm trying to follow your thinking regarding No. 5 sized planes. You stated that you don't want to spend your time fixing old tools, but that seems to be what you are doing. You also seem to be wanting to replace a Lie-Nielsen No. 5. Is that because of extra weight of that plane? Most, including myself, would favor the quality build of the modern planes. Over the years I rehabbed many many planes; to the point that I decided, like you, I didn't want to be a metalworker instead of a woodworker. I also never found a Stanley plane that worked best, even with aftermarket cutters. If you asked; and you didn't; I would say don't get rid of that Lie-Nielsen just yet.

[Mike Brady]

I think you can get the same blades from Axminster in the UK:

https://www.axminster.co.uk/japanese-laminated-plane-blades-ax22303

Hock replacement irons are quite popular too, although they have that squared-off shape that I found my self grinding off.

[ken hatch]

Ken, I'm trying to follow your thinking regarding No. 5 sized planes. You stated that you don't want to spend your time fixing old tools, but that seems to be what you are doing. You also seem to be wanting to replace a Lie-Nielsen No. 5. Is that because of extra weight of that plane? Most, including myself, would favor the quality build of the modern planes. Over the years I rehabbed many many planes; to the point that I decided, like you, I didn't want to be a metalworker instead of a woodworker. I also never found a Stanley plane that worked best, even with aftermarket cutters. If you asked; and you didn't; I would say don't get rid of that Lie-Nielsen just yet.

Mike,

You are correct, I'm not a metal worker either but and it is a big but, LN planes are just too damn heavy for this OF to use as a Jack plane. LV planes are slightly lighter but with another big but, I can't find a way to love Norris adjusters and I've tried. Then the deciding factor, a Jack plane is not a precision instrument nor does it need to be. A pre-war Stanley works fine as a Jack, a LN #5 is a waste and in my opinion a Stanley #5 works better mostly because it is lighter and the thin HC steel irons are easier to sharpen with a good camber. Of course YMMV. BTW, just like the LV planes I've tried to love the LN #5 which is a beautiful well made plane. That's the reason it has spent so much time in the main tool cabinet. Bottom line though, if I'm honest with myself the Stanley is a better Jack plane than the LN. All that said, my LN #4 and #3 planes are staying in the tool cabinet, they are still too heavy but for smoothing the precision and quality of build make putting up with the weight worth while.

The LN will not be sold, just moved to a place where it is out of the way unless needed.

Anyway those are my reasons,

ken

[ken hatch]

Hock replacement irons are quite popular too, although they have that squared-off shape that I found my self grinding off.

Mike,

That bring a smile, while I've never done it I sure have thought about it.

ken

[Rob Luter]

I've had a number of Stanley #5 over the years, but don't currently have one in the arsenal. As is usually the case, I didn't realize how handy they could be until they were gone. I could use a Jack with a cambered iron. Keep me in mind if you decide to divest yourself of the LN. I like the heft.

[Jason Buresh]

Hock replacement irons are quite popular too, although they have that squared-off shape that I found my self grinding off.

Do the hock irons require opening up the mouth at all? That's the only thing that has made me nervous about trying one.

[Rob Luter]

I put Hock Irons in all my Stanley planes, The only issue I had was with a really old #6. Rather than file the mouth I sold it. The Hock Iron now lives in my #7.

[David Bassett]

Do the hock irons require opening up the mouth at all? That's the only thing that has made me nervous about trying one.

I suppose it depends on the plane. But with the adjustable frog in my Stanley #3 w/Hock iron (Bailey, type 14, 1928-30, I'm told) there was plenty of room. No mods, not even an adjustment really because I had it apart for cleaning.

And, grinding off the (not quite) sharp corners of the Hock iron is on my to do list too! (Not that I'll actually get around to it.)

[Jim Koepke]

Only one or two of my planes have had a mouth too tight for a Hock blade with the frog moved back.

The Hock and other after market blades are nice. For my needs the stock Stanley blades seem to work fine if they weren't rusted & pitted beyond use.

Some of the modern plane are gems to behold. Just the same, one of my Stanley/Bailey planes can do just as good a job even with a full turn or two of backlash in the depth adjuster or a floppy lateral adjuster. :eek:

jtk

[ken hatch]

Only one or two of my planes have had a mouth too tight for a Hock blade with the frog moved back.

The Hock and other after market blades are nice. For my needs the stock Stanley blades seem to work fine if the weren't rusted & pitted beyond use.

Some of the modern plane are gems to behold. Just the same, one of my Stanley/Bailey planes can do just as good a job even with a full turn or two of backlash in the depth adjuster or a floppy lateral adjuster. :eek:

jtk

Jim,

I agree, if the iron has a good back I'd rather use a OEM cutter than a aftermarket one. The problem I have is finding good OEM cutters. Backlash isn't a problem, it just is what it is, nor is a floppy lateral adjuster. A punch and hammer will take care of the flop.

I really wish someone would make a Bailey clone with modern QC and materials. But if they did, with the Bedrock and thick iron sales job that has been done, their costumer base would probably be me and a dozen others.

ken

[steven c newman]

Used to be, you could walk in to HD, and buy as many 2" wide irons @ $3 a piece....still have one in the pile of spares.

For some reason, they have stopped selling those.

I have one Stanley No.5, and a pair of Millers Falls No.14s.....along with the No.11......then there is the Great Neck Tool Co.'s Corsair C-5...that I used as a scrub jack....
418716
Stanley No. 5
418717
Millers Falls No. 14, and a Stanley No. 5-1/2....
All have their OEM irons...

[Jim Koepke]

Used to be, you could walk in to HD, and buy as many 2" wide irons @ $3 a piece....still have one in the pile of spares.
[edited]


Those were good blades. They still sell a 2" blade, they have just raised the price quite a bit and do not carry them in the stores:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Stanley-2-in-Iron-Bench-Plane-Blade-Replacement-12-313/203860027

Mine was in a #4 Frankenplane that got sold awhile back.

jtk

[Bob Jones 5443]

For me it’s three planes, six irons. I alternate between the original SW irons and a Hock replacement set on each of my 1922 Bed Rock 607 and Type 15 Bailey No. 5-1/2. Yes, the Hock is thicker, and its breaker is thicker too, But the yokes on both Stanleys are long enough to reach the iron. Not so with a L-N set. Neither the 607 nor the 5-1/2 yoke makes it through the L-N breaker. Only my L-N 4-1/2 gets the 2 L-N irons, and each Stanley switches between SW and Hock.

Once upon a time I planned to have exactly these three planes, all from Lie-Nielsen. They all use 2-3/8” irons, so I thought I’d have four irons total — one to trade out for sharpening. It didn’t turn out that way: the Stanley’s can’t even share irons. The Type 15 No. 5-1/2 uses a 2-1/4” iron!

[Doug Dawson]

You are correct, I'm not a metal worker either but and it is a big but, LN planes are just too damn heavy for this OF to use as a Jack plane. LV planes are slightly lighter but with another big but, I can't find a way to love Norris adjusters and I've tried. Then the deciding factor, a Jack plane is not a precision instrument nor does it need to be. A pre-war Stanley works fine as a Jack, a LN #5 is a waste and in my opinion a Stanley #5 works better mostly because it is lighter and the thin HC steel irons are easier to sharpen with a good camber. Of course YMMV. BTW, just like the LV planes I've tried to love the LN #5 which is a beautiful well made plane. That's the reason it has spent so much time in the main tool cabinet. Bottom line though, if I'm honest with myself the Stanley is a better Jack plane than the LN. All that said, my LN #4 and #3 planes are staying in the tool cabinet, they are still too heavy but for smoothing the precision and quality of build make putting up with the weight worth while.


I agree that the LN's are too heavy (for my tastes) for anything above a #4. I've sometimes wondered why that is, because the measured weight differences don't seem all that significant. One thing that just occurred to me is that the enhanced precision (flatness) of the wood contact surface might make it seem harder to advance the plane, fatiguing the user more than with a vintage plane. Experimenting with waxing the sole might be interesting. If that's really an issue, then LN should consider switching to a corrugated sole for their longer planes. (That was always about reducing stiction etc.)

[Chris Fournier]

I agree that the LN's are too heavy (for my tastes) for anything above a #4. I've sometimes wondered why that is, because the measured weight differences don't seem all that significant. One thing that just occurred to me is that the enhanced precision (flatness) of the wood contact surface might make it seem harder to advance the plane, fatiguing the user more than with a vintage plane. Experimenting with waxing the sole might be interesting. If that's really an issue, then LN should consider switching to a corrugated sole for their longer planes. (That was always about reducing stiction etc.)

I have yet to pick up a hand plane that was too heavy. A heavy plane is a joy to use every time. One it works for you so that you don't have to and two, the heavy planes are the quality planes. I can't imagine sidelining a LN plane EVER. They are the work horses, sorry, the only planes (with the exception of the wood planes that I make for a task) in my shop. Heavy is the Lumber I buy. An I want heavy lumber too, more to work with! Stiction? Paste wax. There is no such thing as a heavy hand plane. Stanley #8 - less than 10 pounds. Go the to the gym, 10 pounds on the dumbell rack is #3 from nothing.

Heavy hand planes are good. Period.

I would love a 5 pound block plane!

[steven c newman]

Ok...here ya go...
418843
Board: 4/4 x 12" x 24" ROUGH SAWN Ash

Needs to be planed to 3/4", smoothed on both faces..

Plane: Stanley # 5-1/2, Type 17.
Let me know, when you are done....( already have one face done....sorry)

I do have a #7c and a #8....and a #6 or two....just in case you need a bit more of a workout...

panel is then to be planed into a Raised panel, using a #4...and maybe a #14 Millers Falls jack plane...making a Frame and Panel door....welcome to stick around for that, and plough the grooves for the panel to sit in....
Done yet?

[Andrew Seemann]

I have yet to pick up a hand plane that was too heavy. A heavy plane is a joy to use every time. One it works for you so that you don't have to and two, the heavy planes are the quality planes. I can't imagine sidelining a LN plane EVER. They are the work horses, sorry, the only planes (with the exception of the wood planes that I make for a task) in my shop. Heavy is the Lumber I buy. An I want heavy lumber too, more to work with! Stiction? Paste wax. There is no such thing as a heavy hand plane. Stanley #8 - less than 10 pounds. Go the to the gym, 10 pounds on the dumbell rack is #3 from nothing.

Heavy hand planes are good. Period.

I would love a 5 pound block plane!

Try face jointing a 16 foot piece of 12" wide rough, resinous white pine in hurry (because you need to get flat enough to run through the planer because you are on a deadline) and see if you still like heavy jack planes:)

[ken hatch]

I have yet to pick up a hand plane that was too heavy. A heavy plane is a joy to use every time. One it works for you so that you don't have to and two, the heavy planes are the quality planes. I can't imagine sidelining a LN plane EVER. They are the work horses, sorry, the only planes (with the exception of the wood planes that I make for a task) in my shop. Heavy is the Lumber I buy. An I want heavy lumber too, more to work with! Stiction? Paste wax. There is no such thing as a heavy hand plane. Stanley #8 - less than 10 pounds. Go the to the gym, 10 pounds on the dumbell rack is #3 from nothing.

Heavy hand planes are good. Period.

I would love a 5 pound block plane!

Hey Chris,

You forgot the snark tag :).

Some folks might think you really drank the thick iron and heavy plane Kool-Aid.

ken