Shaper w/Router Bits: Good Idea or Recipe for Regret?

[Steve H Graham]

I'm looking to upgrade my Harbor Freight welding table, and I am cheap. Guy near me is advertising a Powermatic shaper with the spindle and motor removed. Cost: $100. This thing has a 30" by 40" cast iron table with a T-slot, and weld spatter does not stick to cast iron, so I am tempted.

Question: is a shaper with a router bit adaptor an acceptable substitute for a router, or is it a headache? I could see myself getting a real welding table in the future and converting the shaper back to woodworking use, but if it's a bad tool for router-type jobs, I would not want to bother.

I don't think I'll ever have much interest in big shaper-type jobs.

[Steve Mathews]

My experience has been that weld splatter still sticks to cast iron but not as much compared to steel. After using the shaper table for welding I doubt you will want to use it for a shaper again unless it is surface ground. For an improved and almost ideal welding table I'm considering the cast iron fixture plates made by Fireball. They can be assembled to whatever size table needed.

https://fireballtool.com/universal-cast-iron-fixture-plate/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc7naPGAKX8

[Steve H Graham]

The Fireball Tools plates look great, but a set for a small table would cost $1680 plus shipping. That's with no legs or casters. I would end up spending over $2000.

For that kind of money, I could have a Fabblock table plus legs and casters, plus a lot of clamps and stuff.

Either table makes the $100 option look good.

I wonder why anyone would remove all the moving parts from a shaper. I think they'll have a hard time selling the empty cabinet.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Steve, I have used router bits in a shaper and they work OK, especially if you get a shaper with a high speed spindle in the 15 to 17,000 RPM range.

That said, the router bits don't work anywhere near as well as shaper cutters do in the shaper.........I think it would make a nice flat welding bench however.........Rod.

[Steve Mathews]

I wonder why anyone would remove all the moving parts from a shaper. I think they'll have a hard time selling the empty cabinet.

There's (empty cabinet) the lower half of your table.

[andy bessette]

...is a shaper with a router bit adaptor an acceptable substitute for a router...

No. The shaper will not spin fast enough.

[Michael Todrin]

If you got a router lift and a router it would be a fantastic router table. A cast iron router table top is a lot more than $100.

[andy bessette]

...A cast iron router table top is a lot more than $100.

I made mine from an old table saw top and some 3/4" aluminum square bar.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZR0bfb5B/shop-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Jeff Duncan]

No. The shaper will not spin fast enough.

Sure it will. In fact it's even better for larger diameter bits that get kinda hairy on the router. For smaller bits, (think anything small enough you could use a laminate trimmer), definitely not ideal, but it will still work with a slower feed.

For the record I have a router table and use one of my shapers with bits as well. The whole 'shapers won't spin fast enough' is a myth perpetuated for reasons I don't understand.

good luck,
JeffD

[Mike Cutler]

I'm looking to upgrade my Harbor Freight welding table, and I am cheap. Guy near me is advertising a Powermatic shaper with the spindle and motor removed. Cost: $100. This thing has a 30" by 40" cast iron table with a T-slot, and weld spatter does not stick to cast iron, so I am tempted.

Question: is a shaper with a router bit adaptor an acceptable substitute for a router, or is it a headache? I could see myself getting a real welding table in the future and converting the shaper back to woodworking use, but if it's a bad tool for router-type jobs, I would not want to bother.

I don't think I'll ever have much interest in big shaper-type jobs.

Jeff
I am assuming that the motor and spindle are part of the price, but that they're just not currently installed??
Either way, for a $100.00, I don't see how you can go wrong. Worst outcome is that you end up with a large, flat, metal surface. You can't make a surface that size, that cheap.
Yes, a shaper can spin a router bit. Larger router bits run at 10,000-12,000 rpm. A shaper runs at this speed. Smaller bits can be used, but you have to get a feel for feed rate. They're designed to run twice as fast as a shaper. They do work though.

[Mike Kees]

I have to agree with Jeff. I have a 3 h.p. Steel City shaper that I use with a euro block head ,a rebate head and router bits. It is a problem solver to be able to use all the different tooling and router bits on this machine. Just cut slower,sure don't miss the noise of a router. Steve that old shaper would make a great welding table,I am using an old Unisaw like that right now.

[johnny means]

Router bits need high RPMs for clean cutting. Feeding slower does not negate the effect of slow spindle speeds. Three inch panel raisers may work alright, but regular sized bits will be almost useless.

[Edward Dyas]

I'm looking to upgrade my Harbor Freight welding table, and I am cheap. Guy near me is advertising a Powermatic shaper with the spindle and motor removed. Cost: $100. This thing has a 30" by 40" cast iron table with a T-slot, and weld spatter does not stick to cast iron, so I am tempted.

Question: is a shaper with a router bit adaptor an acceptable substitute for a router, or is it a headache? I could see myself getting a real welding table in the future and converting the shaper back to woodworking use, but if it's a bad tool for router-type jobs, I would not want to bother.

I don't think I'll ever have much interest in big shaper-type jobs.Weld splatter can roughen the top of cast iron. I think you would be unhappy with the results of a router adapter in a shaper. A shaper turns at a lower rpm than a router so it would be like running a router at half speed.

[Jim Andrew]

I use my Freud rail bit in my Grizzly shaper with an adapter. Then I use the matching cope cutter in my router table. Do use the slowest speed on my feeder, and the shaper can be speeded up, as the Grizzly is variable speed.

[Stewart Lang]

I also disagree with the whole myth that the shaper spins too slow. I frequently use 1/16" and 1/8" roundover router bits on my shaper and they work great. If you're having problems with the router bits on the shaper, it's because they're not sharp, probably because you're using a cheap bit. I'll take a sharp, slow-spinning bit over a dull, fast-spinning one any day.

Whiteside bits are awesome. Have them sent in and sharpened by a company like Ridge Carbide, and they'll cut like butter at any speed, even better than new.

[Mike Cutler]

Router bits need high RPMs for clean cutting. Feeding slower does not negate the effect of slow spindle speeds. Three inch panel raisers may work alright, but regular sized bits will be almost useless.

Johnny

I personally haven't found this to be true. To be fair and honest about it though, I haven't done it very many times.
I certainly would not want to do it everyday, but as a DIY'r, type, the few times I did do it, seemed to work okay, it was just a little slow. I was actually more worried about breaking the router bit.

[Steve H Graham]

I have used router bits in walnut on a milling machine at under 4000 RPM, and the results were perfect.

[Cary Falk]

I use router bits in my shaper all the time without issue.

[Jeff Duncan]

Router bits need high RPMs for clean cutting. Feeding slower does not negate the effect of slow spindle speeds. Three inch panel raisers may work alright, but regular sized bits will be almost useless.

Yup still not true..... no offense but I don't understand why guys continue to regurgitate bad information? Not only does the slower speed not make them useless, its of less impact than one may think. I don't even change my shaper speed to it's max, 6k rpm's is more than enough to get the job done. If the bits too small a diameter to run well at that speed then I probably don't need to be using it on a shaper anyway and I'll throw it on the router table.

My advice to those who say it won't work is to actually try it out first before condemning it;)

JeffD

[John M Bailey]

Router bits need high RPMs for clean cutting. Feeding slower does not negate the effect of slow spindle speeds. Three inch panel raisers may work alright, but regular sized bits will be almost useless.

LOL, Please don't tell my G1035 shaper it is useless with regular sized bits, it doesn't know any better and does a great job with any bit i use in it.

some people

[andy bessette]

...some people

...some people aren't too particular about their routing.

[Mike Cutler]

Wow!
I think we've strayed a bit far, and it's getting a little "snipey".
Shapers have had router bit adapters for at least 50 years. (My machine is from the 60- 70's.) So router bits do work, there is no doubt. A sharp well kept router bit will work fine on a shaper. How long one will last in a production environment is another question altogether.
I have a Whiteside 45 degree lock miter that doesn't work well in a shaper table. The two cutter wing design, without limiters makes for a lot of vibration. My Amana lock miter shaper cutter with 3 cutters and designed limiters works extremely well. This is just an example.
A router bit panel raiser profile in a shaper is still a multi pass process, or you risk breaking, or distorting that bit. A panel raiser shaper cutter is a one and done, or maybe two passes, the second being very light. Same goes for the cope and stick cutters depending on size. It's a compromise, that has to be admitted. It works, but it is a compromise
I think that if you're using router bits in a shaper table on a consistent basis, you might not truly be taking full advantage of either tool, or machine.

[Brian Holcombe]

Yup still not true..... no offense but I don't understand why guys continue to regurgitate bad information? Not only does the slower speed not make them useless, its of less impact than one may think. I don't even change my shaper speed to it's max, 6k rpm's is more than enough to get the job done. If the bits too small a diameter to run well at that speed then I probably don't need to be using it on a shaper anyway and I'll throw it on the router table.

My advice to those who say it won't work is to actually try it out first before condemning it;)

JeffD

I run router bits in a Bridgeport at 3200rpms. They cut cleanly. No burning and very little dust, they usually make clean shavings. I’d certainly rather have it run at high speed, but it’s been fine.

Machines have the advantage (in many cases) of tighter runout, less deflection at the spindle, consistent power and it they’re fitted with equipment to do so they’re often able to feed at a consistent rate.

[Erik Loza]

Router bits need high RPMs for clean cutting. Feeding slower does not negate the effect of slow spindle speeds. Three inch panel raisers may work alright, but regular sized bits will be almost useless.

This has been my experience as well. Fair number of combo machine customers over the years who got router spindles for their machines. Tiny bits will not cut well but larger panel raisers, etc, actually work nicely.

Erik

[Jim Becker]

The bottom line here...yes you can use router bits in a shaper including small ones. They will work. They will cut wood and with care on feeding, produce an acceptable, if not decent result. A shaper isn't "ideal", however, for this purpose because the the generally slower rotational speed can't get into where the smaller diameter cutter is getting the best chip load during the cut relative to feed speed. That can cause more heat on the cutter (the chips are what takes the heat away) and one might get lower quality including more tear-out with the slower rotation. The best setup is to have both a router table and a shaper for the broadest capability, but that's not always practical for every shop and every woodworker. So do what's best for you...