restoring a powermatic 15HH

[Thomas Crawford]

So this thing followed me home finally last week. Its a bit of a mess but I'm hoping I can get it all cleaned up.
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[Thomas Crawford]

Helical head is rusted and missing/broken cutters. But the head moves freely, it was powered up and running when I checked it out.

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[Thomas Crawford]

The table was frozen. Cuprit was the chain. Once the chain was removed I could crank each column individually.

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[Doug Dawson]

Helical head is rusted and missing/broken cutters. But the head moves freely, it was powered up and running when I checked it out.

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Looks like a flood victim?

[Thomas Crawford]

Next items:

get the helical head removed so I can de-rust it. I could probably do it in place but it would be a pain. Need to get the gearbox drained of oil and open. The gear shift is rusted.
Get the screws removed from the columns and likely replace
get the 4 rollers removed and de-rusted. Those are in pretty good shape.
replace every single bolt on the planer


The manual is remarkably detailed with every part. Easy to get replacement bolts at the big box store. Speciality parts here are reasonably priced online.

Worst case scenario for me is that the helical head needs replaced. I would hate that but it would move me from 'awesome deal' to 'good deal'.

[Thomas Crawford]

Looks like a flood victim?

Stored in non-climate controlled storage, but never directly exposed to water/rain.

[Matt Day]

Soak that head in evaporust and it should be good to go. I cleaned up my 15” planer that was in a similar state.

[Doug Dawson]

Stored in non-climate controlled storage, but never directly exposed to water/rain.

I see a lot of stuff that's very affordable that's often sold by a guy named Harvey, in the automotive market, we're on a first name basis. Looks like you met him too. (I passed, it would have never worked out in the end.)

[Thomas Crawford]

I see a lot of stuff that's very affordable that's often sold by a guy named Harvey, in the automotive market, we're on a first name basis. Looks like you met him too. (I passed, it would have never worked out in the end.)

Its just his cousin El Nino.

[Thomas Crawford]

Soak that head in evaporust and it should be good to go. I cleaned up my 15” planer that was in a similar state.

I bought the gallon jug. It turns very smoothly and really its just surface rust.

[Darcy Warner]

Soak that head in evaporust and it should be good to go. I cleaned up my 15” planer that was in a similar state.

I have derusted tables, heads, etc. with evaporust by soaking blue shop towels in it, wrapping or covering parts with them and then covering or wrapping everything up with plastic.

May be the way to go with that head, help free up the insert screws.

[Matt Day]

I have derusted tables, heads, etc. with evaporust by soaking blue shop towels in it, wrapping or covering parts with them and then covering or wrapping everything up with plastic.

May be the way to go with that head, help free up the insert screws.

That was I was thinking.

Use a 2’ section of 4” pvc with cap to soak it after you take it out. I’ve got my cutterhead for my 399 in the bath right now.

[Don Jarvie]

Unless the bolts are broken they can be reused. HF sells a good buffer cheap and put a couple of wire wheels on it, one course and one fine. Take the planer completely apart, clean, repaint and put it back together.

I use Super clean (purple bottle conc) and wash everything scrubbing all the parts. It will take off loose paint and clean off the grease. It may be a good time to replace the cutterhead bearings even if they seem decent. You want to do this once so it’s a good time for the bearings.

[Thomas Crawford]

Unless the bolts are broken they can be reused. HF sells a good buffer cheap and put a couple of wire wheels on it, one course and one fine. Take the planer completely apart, clean, repaint and put it back together.

I use Super clean (purple bottle conc) and wash everything scrubbing all the parts. It will take off loose paint and clean off the grease. It may be a good time to replace the cutterhead bearings even if they seem decent. You want to do this once so it’s a good time for the bearings.

The hex socket caps and socket set screws are mostly shot, I've stripped one of them that I'll have to drill out. Busted off one other bolt.

I think the cutterhead bearings are sealed. The table screw bearings are definitely shot.

Is it blasphemy to repaint the powermatic in John Deere green?

[Bill Dufour]

The bearings may be sealed but the grease still dries out. If they are more then ten years old I would replace them while you have the machine apart. At the least pull the seal and clean and regrease.
Bill D

[Thomas Crawford]

Good progress this weekend - got the threaded rods that move the table out.

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[Thomas Crawford]

Got the gearbox open finally. It smelled like *$% inside.

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[Thomas Crawford]

Cutterhead out. Deeply satisfying to actually accomplish this. I let the cutter head drop accidentally and lost 2 more carbide cutters.

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[Thomas Crawford]

Tools I could not have done this without:

1) Gear puller (harbor freight)
2) Snap ring pliers (craftsman)
3) My Spin Doctor bicycle tools for the hex socket heads
4) A piece of wood and my dead blow mallet

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[Matt Day]

Looking good!

I’ve never seen a spiral cutterhead with so many busted cutters. You’re replacing them all right?

[Derek Arita]

Looks like a super-cool project, especially if it was a good deal. How much? I love restoration projects that yield very useful in the end. I green...

[Thomas Crawford]

Looking good!

I’ve never seen a spiral cutterhead with so many busted cutters. You’re replacing them all right?

I chipped a few of them myself. Otherwise the previous owner said they tried to run a gnarly knotted piece of wood through it and broke a few.

At first I just bought a 10-pack for $45, but I'm thinking for safety reasons I should probably just do all of them. I'm sure some are fine but there are definitely hairline cracks in some.

Any opinions? They've never been rotated so it would be nice to salvage some of them.

[Thomas Crawford]

Looks like a super-cool project, especially if it was a good deal. How much? I love restoration projects that yield very useful in the end. I green...

I'm in about $1100 so far with delivery. Another $75 in tools but I don't count that :) I see them a couple times a year for $2200-2400 used that normally need a good cleaning. I probably paid too much now that I have it completely apart.

I figure worst case with the parts I need to replace I'd top out around $1500

[Mike Kees]

Do not discount the educational value of what you are doing. You will know and understand how that thing works. Plus you know that all bearings,seals etc are good to go. I would have done it. (I have many times ).There is something about this process that excites me,I would fell cheated with a 'plug and play'machine. In my shop I smile every time I use one of the 'projects' that I went through before it was ready for woodworking. The other reality for me is that I would have 1/3 of the machines I have now if I had to pay full price for them.

[Thomas Crawford]

Wondering if anyone has suggestions on how long I should soak the cutter head in evaporust? Doing things overnight would speed up the process but I'm not sure if that is overkill or what the side effects are if its in too long. It will be submerged in a PVC pipe.

[Matt Day]

I usually soak overnight. I’ve left parts in the soak for 3 days without issue.

Usually after i take it out, I dry it then chuck it up on my lathe (woodworking) and go from about 350g up to 1000g to really clean/shine it up. Not needed but it looks good and I enjoy doing it. At least rub it down with some scotch brite.

[Thomas Crawford]

More progress - everything is out now, including the kickback pawls still shown. De-rusting is going great, its all surface rust.

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[Thomas Crawford]

I'm stuck here. Could use some advice on how to drill these out. I tried every trick I could find of pounding bigger bits in, etc. I finally started to just drill them but at this rate I'll go through $100 of drill bits.

One stuck on the top, one stuck on the bottom (of course):

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this is what is stuck in there, M10 socket set screw:
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[John Lanciani]

Start with a left handed bit. They typically end up backing the screw right out.

[Matt Day]

I agree with John, but you don’t have much for the bit to grab so it might not work. You may end up needing to drill them out and hoping you don’t bugger up the threads. If you do, drill the hole one size bigger and tap new threads.

Surprised you stripped an M10 to be honest. Sure you were using metric Allen keys?

Cutterhead looks good!

[Thomas Crawford]

They were completely rusted, the inside kind of just disintegrated with the Allen key.

I have a tap and die set, and in reality I think theses socket set screws are redundant - there are 8 total top and bottom that lock the bottom base and top body onto the 4 posts. Already jacked up the threads on one so I'll either leave it out or drill an M12.

I've pretty much ground them smooth inside, so I'll try the left handed bit, maybe I can pound something at it to get something it can bite into.

-------

Otherwise, trying to figure out how to get the thing totally apart so I can derust the posts properly. I'm thinking of getting a mini bottle jack like this:
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200641735_200641735

I have 6.5" available if I move the table all the way to top.

[Matt Day]

You could also leave it on to clean the posts. Raise the bed as high as it will go, clean the exposed part below, lower the bed all the way then clean the rest. A brass wore wheel should do it.

[Thomas Crawford]

Ordered the replacement parts I need plus found a cheaper jack. I figure worst case I end up with one post stuck to the bottom and one to the top. I can work with that from a weight perspective. I really want to get the table off because there is definitely grime and grit between the table and the posts.

Also I want to repaint it which will be much easier in pieces.

[Thomas Crawford]

Update: Got some wire wheel brushes and they worked wonders on the posts. The table moves much more smoothly. Unfortunately I tried my method of putting the bottle jack in there to push it apart and one post wouldn't give. So I had three pop up and one stay on. I was expecting the 4th one to pop out of the bottom but it stuck. So I dropped the jack and pounded the top back down, but on two of the posts I have a little gap. It's hard to know if that was there to start or not. As near as I can tell I'm probably off by 1/32 at most side to side, which I'm thinking will not be hard to adjust for with the table.

Question is, do I continue to try to drill out the set screw that caused that issue or just put everything back together and level the table? Looks like it will be at least another week until I get my replacement parts so I have some time to think about it.


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[Thomas Crawford]

Well I finally got it apart with 2 jacks, this is going to make it much easier to do the final derusting and paint. With some grease on the posts should go back together reasonably easy.

Got most of the replacement parts in - they messed up my order and didn’t sent the items I ordered two of.

[Thomas Crawford]

Pics. Now I'm figuring out what paint to use. I'm thinking something I can roll on rather than spray. There are so many holes everywhere. Hoping I can clean up where necessary and then paint on top of the current yellow.

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[Jim Becker]

When you get to your finishing, the biggest key to the job is surface preparation including thorough cleaning. There can be no grease or other contaminants nor can there be any oxidation that hasn't been dealt with. Prime with something compatible with your intended color product. There are a number of "machine" type paints available that are readily applied by brushing and rolling in a variety of colors.

[Mike Kees]

I have used an auto part store several times that mixes colors to match in spray cans, it costs me about $25 a can but works very well and matches original color exactly.

[Thomas Crawford]

When you get to your finishing, the biggest key to the job is surface preparation including thorough cleaning. There can be no grease or other contaminants nor can there be any oxidation that hasn't been dealt with. Prime with something compatible with your intended color product. There are a number of "machine" type paints available that are readily applied by brushing and rolling in a variety of colors.

Thanks - I'm thinking with it being apart and actually manageable to move around easily by myself I should be able to get it done properly.

Do you know off-hand if its possible to paint over the existing paint? My thought was to wire brush/sand/etc all the rusting areas, give it a thorough cleaning and then get a coat of primer on it as fast as possible once dried.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks - I'm thinking with it being apart and actually manageable to move around easily by myself I should be able to get it done properly.

Do you know off-hand if its possible to paint over the existing paint? My thought was to wire brush/sand/etc all the rusting areas, give it a thorough cleaning and then get a coat of primer on it as fast as possible once dried.

You do not need to remove the existing paint, but you'll want to prepare the surface well...light abrasion to give "tooth" and remove anything not "permanent" and then proper cleaning. Primer from there will finish the preparation before you put on your color. The better you prep, the better the results. And with machinery, the cleaning thing is critical.

[Bill Dufour]

Where the old paint is firmly attached it can be left to act as primer. This will cause an aligator effect as the old paint film is thicker then the bare metal. You have to feather the edges down with a wire brush or fill the missing areas with body filler or high build primer if you want a gloss smooth final appearance. If you want a as cast factory paint job don't bother with excess time on fillers etc.
Bil lD

[Matt Day]

For holes: threaded ones just screw in a bolt of the same thread pitch/diameter and paint it. Open holes without threads I’ve used strips of rosin paper or construction paper rolled up.

I’m getting ready to brush on some Sherwin Williams DTM to my planer which is totally stripped down to bare metal.

[Thomas Crawford]

Questions

- for cleaning before paint is soap and water sufficient or do I need some kind of toxic degreaser?

- for drying quickly and well, should I use compressed air, blowdryer, something else? A torch seems like overkill and that I could screw something up.

[Matt Day]

I use Super Clean. It’s nasty stuff but does the job. Will eat away paint if left on too long. After wiping it off with a towel, any residue left behind will dry by itself. It’s a must have for my restorations.

[Kris Cook]

Just read this through. I bought one of these new so if you can get it done for around $1,500 it seems like a good deal. Also as others have noted the experience is worth something as well. Looks like it isn't too late to go with the Deere green...

Thanks for sharing.

[Bill Dufour]

I like to use aluminum foil for paint masking. Holds nicely to curves and self holds when crumpled around a feature.
Bil lD

[Thomas Crawford]

I'm super pumped I got the rollers off of the table. Took a lot of googling to figure out how to get those eccentric adjusters out, the end method was a lot of banging around. Unfortunately in the process I knocked the center out of one of the bearings and the outer ring is stuck in the roller. It might make me have to order another roller if I can't get it out.

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[Matt Day]

Pictures of the bearing problem?

[Thomas Crawford]

Pictures of the bearing problem?

You can see I've marred it up trying to get it out, that will clean up fine. There's no lip on the bottom to pound against.

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[Mitch Fenneman]

You might be able to use a hacksaw blade and cut through it at an angle in a few places as far as possible without getting into the roller then take a cold chisel and break it apart. Just an idea of how I've accomplished the task before, might or might not work depending on how far you can cut into the race before getting in to the roller.

[Matt Day]

I got these loaner tools at Autozone to do a very similar thing to my 399.

[Doug Dawson]

You can see I've marred it up trying to get it out, that will clean up fine. There's no lip on the bottom to pound against.

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Slide hammer kit with a bearing puller attachment. You should be able to pick one up at harbor freight that will suffice (it seems like it would be hard for them to screw something like that up.) It's a really useful tool whenever you're dealing with bearing replacements.

[Matt Day]

Doug, i think just the outer race is stuck INSIDE the roller. So a standard puller would do no good. See my previous post.

[Doug Dawson]

Doug, i think just the outer race is stuck INSIDE the roller. So a standard puller would do no good. See my previous post.

Slide hammers can work on the outside _or_ the inside of the bearing. You can also get pullers that do the same, that can be used with a slide hammer. Of course, you usually can't reuse the bearing afterwards, but that's why you're removing it.

[Matt Day]

Gotcha Doug, like this kit:
https://www.harborfreight.com/Slide-Hammer-and-Bearing-Puller-Set-5-Pc-62601.html

Similar to what I used.

[Doug Dawson]

Gotcha Doug, like this kit:
https://www.harborfreight.com/Slide-Hammer-and-Bearing-Puller-Set-5-Pc-62601.html

Similar to what I used.

More like this:

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200353975_200353975?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Automotive%20%3E%20Auto%20Body%20Repair %20%3E%20Auto%20Body%20Tools&utm_campaign=Performance%20Tool&utm_content=9094230&gclid=Cj0KCQiA5dPuBRCrARIsAJL7oehH5WXyjzu2cdaoMnYW 4JUAgtRxpWYRQB6RBzW8GbsbmCLIqmJgmfQaAkHHEALw_wcB

A lot more flexible, and only slightly more expensive. I have something similar, and with some ingenuity, it has served me well for many years.

Cheaper than taking it out to a shop if you ever plan on doing more than one or if you value your time.

[Thomas Crawford]

I've tried cutting through it with a dremel but it seems rusted in place. Since a new roller is $20 I'm probably going to take an angle grinder to it and see in the end if it will still work. It just needs to hold the bearing and provide minimal friction for a board. Doesn't seem like the extreme edge will matter much.

[Matt Day]

That’s a good point Thomas. Honestly, most, myself included, will recommend you lower those rollers below the bed anyway. They cause more trouble than they are worth unless you are rough planing thousands of board feet. Keep the beds waxed and you don’t need them.

That being said, there is some satisfaction in completing the job. You can get the loaner tools mentioned above for free at an auto parts store. Might as well try.

[Thomas Crawford]

I went ahead and took the angle grinder to it, I think it will still work fine after I grind down all the sharp edges I made.

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[Thomas Crawford]

PRIMED AND PAINTED - so close to getting this thing back together. Sherwin Williams direct to metal oil enamel. Only 450 VOC. Painted outside so I didn't make the shop smell.

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[Jim Becker]

That color went on nicely!!!

[Matt Day]

Looking good! I’ve been busy with family stuff but hopefully I’ll be painting soon too. I’m using the Acrylic version of the DTM, which only has 250g/L.

Assembling a fresh restoration is one of the best parts!

[Thomas Crawford]

Getting it back together:

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[Thomas Crawford]

With work and holiday schedule it sat untouched until this weekend, getting close. New bearings everywhere since I had it apart. New seals for the gearbox. Just need to figure out a way to get a funnel or something to fill the gearbox up with oil, its in a hard to get to spot.

Not going to paint the gearbox because its ultimately covered up, but once this is back together I'll pick a day to paint the rest of it.

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[Kris Cook]

Looking good. You should be able to use some clear tubing to get to gearbox with the lube. Not sure what weight of fluid is called for but I know gear lube (80-90 weight) typically comes in a squeezable bottle to which you can attach tubing.

I guess that isn't John Deere Green. Maybe New Holland Blue? Nah, too light.

[Mike Kees]

I used a straw when I owned a Four post planer.

[kevin nee]

I used squeeze bottles from Harbor Freight to fill the gear box.

https://sawmillcreek.org/blob:https://sawmillcreek.org/41850c3b-50fa-4649-8d2f-fba828a10782Good Luck,

[Thomas Crawford]

Got the gearbox filled with a flexible funnel. 80W Gear Oil.

I can confirm that its possible to install the anti-kickback pawls backwards and everything fits and it runs with no issue - but you'd never be able to plane a piece of wood.

2.5 hour job to pull it apart and switch them around and I have a smooth-running machine.

[Thomas Crawford]

Its been to cool/rainy to finish the painting, will get the rest turned blue in the spring.

Wasn't too bad get the rollers and everything level and aligned with a feeler gauge. Need to align the infeed/outfeed tables and then run some stuff through it to make sure its all square enough.

Proof of shavings:

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[Thomas Crawford]

More notes:

Good to have a torque wrench for the screws on the cutterhead, it was a little more than hand-tight with a screwdriver.

I used Teflon grease everywhere (learned about it from building mountain bikes).

Put a new 10 gauge cord from the machine to the wall and a dedicated 30 amp plug.

I didn't replace the belts - any advantage to a link belt or something here?

The Byrd shelix head is QUIET - so nice compared to the universal motor in my old Makita 2030.

[Matt Day]

Good to see that machine lacking chips again! You worked hard to get to this point, congrats!

I wouldn’t bother with link belts.

[Tom Bender]

Beautiful

Agree with Matt, ordinary belts are best.

[Bill Dufour]

If there is any brass or bronze in the gearbox be very careful what lube you use. GL 4 or less is fine. GL5 will eat yellow metal and destroy it in a few years. It is the new improved high pressure additives that do this. I am not sure if it even has to be run for the chemical attack to continue.
Bill D