Making my first Windsor Chairs

[Prashun Patel]

I've been thoroughly enjoying this project, so I thought I'd share...

I'm a big fan of Curtis Buchanan's work. His videos have a humble, 'golly-gee' quality that is endearing.

His latest offering, the Democratic Chair is really on a different plane though. I have never seen such an accessible way to approach Windsor Chair making.

He offers the plans as 'pay what you can' on his website.

The chair is designed to be made with a minimal number of tools. Windsor chair making can be daunting because you need reamers and a way to cut tapers and shape edges. But he finds ways to keep that to a minimum. Even the steam bending and drying of green parts is approached with a view towards economy.

Many of the parts are made from green wood; so it's a good entry into selecting logs, riving them, and making good chair parts. Again, this is done with a minimal number of tools; no need for a froe. He works all the parts down to the finishing with a drawknife. He pushes the drawknife past the point that most of us would typically stop using it. This has really improved my appreciation of grain direction and layers of the wood as well as the tool.

Contouring a seat can be very non-intuitive (for anyone who's tried to follow plans can attest). But this chair has such simple, elegant, and easy-to-follow lines.

The simple design really lends itself to being a springboard for a more personal design. While I did a lot of the rough work with the drawknife, I did much of the shaping on the lathe. The plans and videos rely less on exact measurements and lengths and more on dynamic adjustments and fits. I love that style of woodworking, and it really gives you license to adapt the design.

All the while, the basic principles of Windsor chairs are preserved: tapered, socketed joints, stretchers that stretch the legs instead of holding them together; super drying tenons before mating them.

I'm making this one from a pin oak we had to take down at work. The spindles and posts are from that tree. The seat is sycamore and the lower assembly is red oak.

I happen to have a lot of the tools like reamers and a carbide carving wheel for an angle grinder. But some of my past efforts at Windsors have stalled because they have tricky crests, arms, or rockers. This chair is just distilled down to the bare elements.

[Matt Day]

All that good sounding stuff and no pics Prashun?

[David Eisenhauer]

Thanks for sharing Prashtun. I am very interested in following this to the end.

[Phil Mueller]

Wow, really nice work, Prashun. Look forward to the rest of the build.

[Prashun Patel]

Buchanan drawknives the spindles at his shave horse. I wanted to get some practice using the skew at the lathe, so I turned mine. I haven't tamed my skew yet, so I will end up smoothing these with a block plane. It's just hard for me to minimize the vibration on these skinny parts. The block will make the spindle flat and straight much easier. I do like the finished surface that the skew leaves; it really doesn't need to be sanded much; but the block does as well here. Because these parts are split from straight grain, they are much easier to smooth with blades than sawn parts; you can come at it from either direction.

I steam bent my crest rail. He just cold bends his with a piece of pipe for leverage. Once steamed, this green oak bent like rubber. There was a good deal of spring back, but again (despite leaving it in the form for a few days). But this is why this project is good; it doesn't matter. The aesthetics are forgiving enough, and the fitting to the posts and spindles is dynamic enough that it can still be made to work.

It's a lot of trimming, fitting, walking around and checking for balance, and iterating.

[Jim Becker]

Skinny spindles at the lathe are helped with using a support mid-way...I assume you are doing that. It helps curtail the natural vibration. And bravo on the skew...a tool I was never able to get used to!

[Prashun Patel]

John Jordan had a great post on turning skinny things. Using a steady rest helps, but I realize that by holding spindles in a chuck at the headstock (instead of between centers) and then altering the tension at the tailstock either up or down, the resonance is greatly reduced. Also, the order of ops helps (Shape the center, then tail end, then head end). I also mount the skinniest (top) of the spindle at the headstock. This is thinned last. I also use my hand as a steady. All these things give passable results.

[Jim Becker]

Oh yea...I was just suggesting that it's sometimes "fun" with skinny spindles on the spinny thing. :)

[Tom Hyde]

Someday, when I’m a better woodworker, I’m going to give this a go. Great post and good looking chair. Thanks for posting!

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks, Tom. FWIW, I am doing this build with a coworker who is relatively new to woodworking and absolutely new to the drawknife and green woodworking. He’s been able to do everything.

This is in fact a great project to learn on.

I encourage you to watch those vids if u are at all considering doing it.

[David Utterback]

Your artistic eye is evident in all your projects. Are there structural reasons for selection of different woods for the components? (Maybe this is covered in the Buchanan video.) How was the sycamore to work with? Thanks for sharing!

[Tom Hyde]

Thanks, Tom. FWIW, I am doing this build with a coworker who is relatively new to woodworking and absolutely new to the drawknife and green woodworking. He’s been able to do everything.
This is in fact a great project to learn on.
I encourage you to watch those vids if u are at all considering doing it.

I definitely will, thanks for the lead. Did you go the shaving horse route?

It’s interesting that the Port Townsend School of Woodworking near me starts students in their Foundation course with a three-legged stool project - from raw log, to riving through construction. It makes sense how this fosters an appreciation for the wood itself, grain direction and basic hand tool techniques.

[Prashun Patel]

I got a chance to fit the spindles today. I have the Veritas 'pencil sharpeners' to do the tenons. However, I find that it's easier to to do them at the lathe.

I am toying with the idea of swapping out the 4th spindle for one with a little knot in it. THis log was full of these.

[Prashun Patel]

The design is not mine so I cannot take credit for that.

Sycamore is great to work with. Like poplar it feels halfway between a hardwood and softwood. I used sycamore for the seat because it was an offcut from another project. It was a good choice here because it was easier to carve than a harder wood seat.

The spindles and posts were made from green wood mainly because they are thin but need to be strong and to withstand bending a little.

I used red oak on the bottom again because they were offcuts from a previous project. They were already dry so it saved me a step in cutting the tenons; green tenons need to be dried longer and really should be cut again once dry.

Red oak seems to split easier than white or this pin oak.

I did make a few three legged stools last year. That was also satisfying. The techniques for the base of a Windsor chair are exactly the same.

[David Eisenhauer]

Jeez Prashtun, it already looks like a chair and I hardly had a chance to settle in for the show. What was that about "walking before running"? Oh well, can't hold an eagle down I guess.

[Prashun Patel]

I had a chance to wedge and assemble the chair this morning. There isn't a lot of glue used here. Most of the tenons are wedged. I've always pre-sawn the kerf when making wedged tenons in the past. But Buchanan's method is more elegant: He just cuts the tenon a little proud of the mortise, and then splits it with a chisel. It's so quick and easier to align.

I tried like heck to finish turn the spindles with the skew, but I think I may still have to use some sandpaper.

I had amazing success reducing vibration by turning with a drill chuck in the tailstock. It captures the end without providing any longitudinal compression. That, and my fingers as a steady really gave better results.

I made a mistake on Spindle 5: I had not seated it fully before cutting it to length. So, when I hammered the wedge, the top went below the surface. I should have used an end-grain plug. Didn't think about that until too late. This is all going to be painted anyway ;)

[Jim Becker]

I LOVE how you left that knot-hole in the spindle!

[David Eisenhauer]

Love it. Is it comfortable to sit in?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Looks great Prashun! I enjoy using my skew in a lot of my turning! After a lot of practice, it has become my "go to" tool for most of my spindle turning with occasional spindle gouge use!

[Prashun Patel]

David, Yes it is. The Windsor design has been scrutinized deeply by so many people. Rake, splay, spindle angles, seat cant, are all pretty well understood.

There's a great book by Mike Dunbar on making Windsor chairs. He does a good job of describing the mechanics of the chair. The leg and post joints are tapered tenons. While they are wedged, really, every time you sit on the chair it drives the tapers home, which if formed properly, hold remarkably well even without glue. Unlike some contemporary chairs, where the stretchers actually hold the legs together, these stretchers push the legs apart, which also helps reinforce the socketed joints. All of the tenons are 'super dried' in a makeshift kiln such that when finally shaped and placed in their respective sockets (tapered or straight holed) absorb a tiny bit of moisture from the surrounding mortise, and swell to snug up the joints (I can't vouch that this happens in a meaningful way; I haven't made enough to see it in action. But it's what they say).

The selection of 100% straight grained wood with no run-out means the spindles and posts can bend to absorb the users weight without snapping. The legs are also stronger in their length by virtue of the straight grain. All this means you be a little more delicate with the proportions than might be possible with a conventional chair.

Peter Galbert has some amazing resources online too. I recommend his Perch stool (for which he's also posted some videos; he has a wealth of info on his blog too). Galbert is really fun to watch because he uses some modern, very clever techniques for drilling, and bending wood. His designs are just sublime and innovative while still being traditional enough. He's the Veritas to Buchanan's Lie Nielsen. (He's also a Ninja with the lathe, so that's fun to watch).

[Prashun Patel]

I totally agree, Ken! It can do a lot of things that the roughing gouge, spindle gouge, and parting tool can do. And there's something so satisfying about the way it cuts. So crisp and smooth. Like the drawknife, it's been fun to push myself to do more than I thought possible with it.

[Bill Carey]

I LOVE how you left that knot-hole in the spindle!

2nd that in a big way. Love it. I enjoy trying to incorporate some of the woods interesting defects into the design. You did a great job of it.

[David Eisenhauer]

Thanks for the info Prashtun. I have long considered "chairs" to be the mark of a true woodworking craftsman and I applaud your efforts. I will look into the Dunbar and Galbert source info to see what I can see. You are pushing me to jump into a "chair" sooner than later.

[Tom Hyde]

Very, very nice. I do lots of wedged through tenons and the idea of just splitting it for the wedge with a chisel kind of freaks me out, but makes a lot of sense. I really appreciate all the references and little tips in here!

[Prashun Patel]

I wanted to finish this chair with red followed by black milk paint. However, I find the mixing and applying of milk paint tedious. I painted the first coat red, and then sprayed black India Ink for the second coat. Burnishing the milk paint is just no fun, IMHO. It's dusty, rubs through, and is just messy in every way to work with. I don't understand the appeal - besides the great stock colors that the Old Fashioned Milk Paint company makes it in.

I diluted the India ink in ethanol and sprayed it until I got the shade of black I was after. I applied 2 coats of Waterlox Original Sealer Finish, then sanded it. Next time, I would use shellac as a seal coat. This can be sprayed. Wiping or brushing on finishes for a chair is not fun. With colorants, it's just hard to simultaneously knock the grain back between coats while not burning through. As a result, my painted and dyed finishes rarely feel as good as uncolored finishes. In the end, it worked out.

I think prefinishing would have helped a great deal. Especially in this case, where very little glue is used. The pieces could be wedged, trimmed, and touched up easily, but you wouldn't have to touch the points where the spindles meet the seat or crest - the hardest part to keep smooth.

[Prashun Patel]

I started my second chair. This one will be in walnut.

Boy, training with the skew on pin and red oak is like running with ankle weights. Turning this walnut is so much easier. I suspect (but cannot confirm) that the green oak, by virtue of being more pliable, was also more prone to vibration when turning thin. This KD walnut appears not to have this issue. This means a flatter surface before I have to sand.

I'm going for fewer angles and more curves on this one. Buchanan's seat template is awesome for locating the seat and post holes. I plan to eliminate the concave dip on the sides of the seat and also to round the corners.

I don't have any green walnut. Curving the crest rail might have been tough with a solid 1" piece of walnut. So, I cut it into laminations. it still wouldn't bend without some work, so I steamed the laminations for 45 minutes, bent them in the form for an hour or two until they cooled and some of the surface moisture evaporated. Then I glued it and left it in the form for 24 hours. I haven't quite figured out the post to crest joint yet.

I also haven't yet figured out the spindles. I am considering just using oak for those, since I still have green, riven stock for that.

[Jim Becker]

Outstanding result!!! If I'm not mistaken, it was common to rub linseed oil over milk paint, but for today's world, the Waterlox is likely a very good choice.

[Prashun Patel]

The bend on the crest was a little drastic for my taste. The lamination had no springback. i decided to try to bend a solid piece. My first attempt, steaming for 90 minutes did not work. The piece would not bend. i soaked it overnight and tried again. it was largely successful, but the top had some peeling. I think it may be superficial. I also bent the back posts using a curved form made from Peter Galbert's rocker plans. I had to turn the tapers and tenons on the posts before steaming. I was curious whether the fit would be altered on the tapers but they held. I turned the tenons over-sized so they can be adjusted later.

[Prashun Patel]

These spindles have been riven from red oak and steam bent using the same form as the posts. I did these a while ago, planning to make Peter Galbert's Rocker. They sat around for a year, waiting for me to stop procrastinating.

I find the size of these Windsors a little more usable for my home and office, so I'm re-purposing them.

Because the spindles are bent, the holes in the back of the seat could be drilled at 90 degrees instead of the 7 degrees that Buchanan's design calls for.

I was able to do all the shaping of the top with the draw knife and a block plane.

The crest needs some work...The previous design has the crest tenoning into the posts. On this one, I'm asking the posts to tenon into the crest. This is tricky because the angle of the mortises is tricky to calculate and drill. Second, the shoulder of the bent posts is not coplanar with the crest. Buchanan suggests drilling a 7/8" counterbore to define the shoulder of the crest. I did not hit it so well on my first attempt. I can get the parts to come together, but there is a big gap in the shoulder.

Designing this as I go...

[Anuj Prateek]

Love it. Beautiful work!

[Prashun Patel]

I've been working on the base. It's a struggle to hold the assembly steady for drilling. If you don't own ratchet straps, I find it easier to leave the top side edges and bottom surface level and flat at this point. This provides a bearing surface to allow me to clamp a caul to the top of the seat. This can then be pipe clamped to the bench. In addition to holding the assembly secure for drilling, it fully seats the legs into the sockets, so that I can accurately reference the proper heights for the holes.
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I was eager to try out my new brace and bits, but it was easy enough this time to just use a Forstner bit, using blue tape between the legs to serve as an angle guide. Galbert and Buchanan have great methods for transfering the exact angles to bevel squares, but I find it easier to drill these in place. I measure DOWN from the bottom of the seat, not up from the bench, because my legs have not been finally leveled.
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Dunbar's book has some fancy equations for calculating the lengths of the stretchers. I prefer to just cut them over-sized, and then trim them to fit. This is where a Dozuki really comes in handy. It can make 1/32" fine cuts on the end of a 1/2" tenon without tearing fibers. It's also possible to shoot the edges with a block plane. It's tempting to keep the stretchers a little too long: when the stretcher is seated into the legs, the tapered tenons of the legs will be too narrow to fit into the bottom of the seat holes. However, this is precisely the point. I use the topside holes to determine the final length of the stretcher, since this is the final resting point. To assemble, I had to insert the stretcher partially into the legs, and simultaneously push the legs into the sockets, while seating the stretcher into the leg tenons. This tricky fit is what keeps the whole thing together. The fit is remarkably forgiving, as pressure is distributed between the four legs.

I also like doing the final shaping on the lathe. I'm trying to make the swoops more fair curves, and less linear. Using a drill chuck at the tail stock, and pin jaws at the head stock allows me to mount the trimmed stretcher back into the lathe and hold it by its tenons. A good side effect is that the jaws protect the tenon from the skew blade, which prevents inadvertently shaving their thickness; so I can fit the tenon thickness and length perfectly before the final shaping. The jaws even compress the tenon slightly, which helps them slide in and out of the mortises a little better.

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[Prashun Patel]

I really like his method of wedging the tenons. Prior to this, I cut them with a saw. It was awkward to hold them in a vise and guess the proper depth. It was also tricky to get the line perfectly straight. Buchanan's method (and Dunbar's) is to just drive a chisel into the tenon after assembly. This allowed me to line up the direction perfectly (in theory; I still managed to clock one off a bit). I've learned a couple things doing this though. The saw removes material from the kerf, which makes placing the wedge a little easier. To make room for the wedge using a chisel, I drove it down a little, letting the bevel compress the fibers. However, this also causes the chisel to move off it's mark. But if I flip the chisel alternating the bevel direction between strikes (it only takes 3-4 strikes), it creates a comfortable, tapered, centered entry point for the wedge.
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Keeping the wedge from drifting as it is driven can be an issue, so I like to drive mine using pliers to keep it flush. On the last few projects, I've used walnut wedges. I used white oak on these. SO MUCH BETTER! White oak bends - and takes hammer strikes into the end grain with grace.

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As the wedge is driven, there is a tendency for the leg to pop out of its mortise. Clamping it to the bench helps prevent this.

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https://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=419052&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1573049789

I reshaped the stretchers a little and sanding them up to 600 on the lathe. Sanding on the lathe is so much easier and better than off. I did not use any glue on the stretchers. Only the legs and their wedges have been glued.

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On to refining the seat profile. I planed the bottom before glue up. I should have taken better pains to protect the top edge of the seat; the red oak caul that I used to clamp it to the bench created some indentations that need to be dealt with.

Even after 2 of these chairs, I can already appreciate how critical the choice of wood is for each part. The seat, if made of soft wood, hollows, reams, and shapes easy. You can key the wedges into the soft wood if you make them over-sized. The components of the back need to be able to bend - both if you choose to steam bend them and after, to accomodate the user leaning back. So these really need to be out of a wood that can take that. The legs is where all the details and profiles happen on turned parts, so these need to be from a wood that yield crisp edges. I guess Windsors are traditionally painted because they're most efficiently made from a pot luck of different woods that probably don't look good together.

[Jim Becker]

Very nice!! I wonder if it might be worth your while to create a "double bevel" chisel just for the wedge work as it would eliminate the need to keep flipping the sharp tool around which in turn makes for less risk of, um...red stuff...pouring onto your project. :) :D

[Prashun Patel]

I will use my 10lb splitting maul next time. ;)

Thanks for the comments, Jim. I appreciate it.

[David Eisenhauer]

I have been watching a series of Buchanan's YT videos where he builds one of his Windsor Comb Back chairs for the last couple of days. He starts with purchasing a couple of logs (Maple and Red Oak) in the first video and proceeds from there. His experience and knowledge about the entire process is obvious to the viewer and (as many experts do) makes the process look easier than I'd imagine the first 20-30 chairs go for new chair builders. What really jumps out to me is that the whole process starts with properly rived timber and that seems to be a key requirement. How do you handle that aspect Prashtun?

[Prashun Patel]

I am blessed to have a good amount of fresh red and white oak in my area of New Jersey. I'm new to riving, but find it satisfying and quite straight forward. I am only on my 2nd chair, so I am still making my mistakes. However, it's a fun process. Starting with riven wood makes it economical to experiment. I purchased some riven wood from Elia Bizzari last year. That was an expensive way to go, but the quality of wood was great and has given me a good reference point for making my own blanks.

Other species, and even kd stock is usable. You just have to know how aggressive you can be in each situation, and the stress that the part will be under. Still learning.

Around here, red oak never gets its due. But as a green wood, it's really nice to work with: it looks great rift or quartersawn, it splits super easily, and the layers peel off nicely with a draw knife.

[Mel Fulks]

Good stuff ! I think a good thing to remember is the old ones were cheap and bought by rich and poor. When they are "over done" they remind me of manikins in a store staffed by real women. And "beauty marks" reflecting candle light is a good look. Have you considered getting some NE white pine for some seats?

[Prashun Patel]

I fitted the spindles today. I am enjoying using the brace and auger bits. It really does afford me more control than the powered drill because of the reduced speed, and longer reference that the bit affords. I use a dowel to line up the bit, and check for vertical every few turns.


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When the lead screw exits the bottom, I finish the cut from the bottom with a forstner.

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I am using the Veritas tenon sharpeners to form the 3/8" ends. It's dialed in a little proud, but sandpaper helps fine tune the fit. I think these spindles are way too fat and require some slimming.


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[Bill McNiel]

Prashun,
Straight up impressive work, from both a design and craftsmanship standpoint. I am equally impressed with the the depth of your understanding of how a chair actually works and how the inherent stresses are addressed.

Thank you for posting not just photos but the logic and decision making process for the entire project.

[Prashun Patel]

My mind wanted fat spindles, but my eye wants them thinner and thinner. I think I may make this a 7-spindle chair instead of 5...

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks Bill. Any 'depth of understanding' is strictly regurgitation of Buchanan, Galbert or Dunbar. I am jealous of most of you who know your design going in. I spend 90% of my time redesigning as I go along. It's soooo inefficient (SWMBO confirms) and never quite what I wanted. Alas, I am doomed to never master the modeling tools or to follow pre-printed plans to the letter.

My mind wanted fat spindles, but my eye wants them thinner and thinner. I think I may make this a 7-spindle chair instead of 5...

It is a challenge to fair the curve without bumps, as well as staying away from the tenons. I have been switching back and forth between a spokeshave and a block plane.

The bottom is the hard part. Longer sections are easier to work than short ones.

Next time I will try turning and tapering the spindles on the lathe and then steam bending them.

[Jim Becker]

Isn't it ironic that we generally don't want our wood to bend and it does and here, where you want it to bend, it's not cooperating to the level you prefer. LOL

[Prashun Patel]

Oh, the wood's cooperating all right; it's my hands and eyes that are not cooperating to the level I prefer. I look at the lines these guys produce and it just humbles me. Have you seen the work of Bern Chandley? The walnut chair back and crest is inspired by his rodback windsor. Of course, what starts out as 'inspired by' ends up being 'try to copy' because it's so darn nice!

[Jim Becker]

I resemble that hands and eyes remark. LOL Chair making is an art...and there are folks who do amazing things that I doubt I could even come close to if I tried really hard.

[Prashun Patel]

I decided to add two additional spindles. Unfortunately, I miscalculated the drilling angles in the seat. The spindles can take the forced bending, but it pulls the entire back out of alignment which puts unnecessary stress on the other tenons and in particular, the posts. The posts are in tapered mortises. So, they function best when they don't require more than a gentle coaxing to fully seat. I plugged the holes and re-drilled for a better fit.

I do like this look a little better. The original Democratic design has only 5 spindles. I am sure that's for economy of effort. To my eye, 7 fills the back and looks a little more refined - or at least complete. Now on to shaping the crest rail corners. I have some gaps at the tenon shoulders and am undecided how to deal with them...

I also have some final shaping of the spindles. The 6th (from the left) is the ideal that I'm shooting for. I've been using the spokeshave and block plane to do this. A small spokeshave can be used one handed, which allows me to hold and spin the spindle against a stop instead of chucking it in the vise. That's been a great way to sneak up on the shape without over-doing it. I am down to 3/8" on a good portion of the spindles already. While I trust the strength of these, I don't want to push my luck. The additional 2 spindles add some insurance too ;)

In retrospect, I should have made the center stretcher out of red oak too. My goal was originally to have the legs taper downward as they do. I divided the overall length into 3, and made the taper the lower 2/3 of the leg. However, I forgot to account for the portion of the top 1/3 that was in the seat. So, the taper is more like 4/5 of the visible portion. Because the stretchers attach to the largest diameter, this pushed the stretchers higher than I wished. When you're close to the chair, you really don't even see the stretchers (which I will now tell everyone is a feature not a bug, and that it lightens up the look...)

[Prashun Patel]

I used epoxy to glue the back assembly. Because the spindle orientation is intentional, I wanted to prevent them from spinning. I am glad I used epoxy because it took a while to get everything oriented and clamped. It was very awkward to orient pipe clamps to hold the crest and the seat simultaneously. If I do this again, I will consider gluing blocks onto the bottom just to be able to pull it tight.

The only thing left is to shape the 'horns'. I originally intended to try my hand at a false miter, but I think I may just opt for a simpler, blended transition...

[Jim Becker]

Dang...that's looking really good!

[Prashun Patel]

I finished this yesterday. Waterlox Original Sealer Finish.

The bow and posts are walnut, but from the sap part of a slab. Spindles are red oak.

[Prashun Patel]

I was originally going to make the post/bow joint a false miter. But as I was shaping it, I decided to leave it as is. I suspect the FM would look better with a painted joint where you can hide the actual joint and camouflage the end grain of the bow.

[Jim Becker]

Outstanding work, Prashun!!!!

[Mel Fulks]

Lot of thought in that design. I'm surprised at how formal it looks. Think it deserves a new and trade marked name.
Sure to be succesful.

[Edwin Santos]

Lot of thought in that design. I'm surprised at how formal it looks. Think it deserves a new and trade marked name.
Sure to be succesful.

Yes, maybe Prashun Patel's Aristocratic Chair.

[Christian Hawkshaw]

Very, very nice.....

[Brian Holcombe]

Nice work, Prashun!

[Phil Mueller]

Two thumbs up here, too. Nice work, Prashun.

[Thomas Wilson]

Nice work, Prashun. I too am a fan of Curtis Buchanan videos. Jonesborough is not far from Norris Lake. I hope to make a pilgrimage there some day. He is passing on a craft. I want to support that.

TW