Felder v. Laguna 18" Bandsaw

[Daniel Vinsand]

I was planning on buying a Felder FB510 bandsaw. This month the Lagunas are on sale, so the price is a little lower for the Laguna 18 Italian saw. I don't have specific plans to resaw at 18", but that seems to be the major advantage of the Laguna. The Felder is 16". On paper, they have the same power and throat depth. The Felder has a 170 inch blade which will be a custom length, but not a big deal. Felder also has two dust-collection ports, though I'm not sure how much of a difference that will make. The Laguna has a broader range of blades it can use (1/8" to 1-1/4")

Felder was a first choice because they are high quality and the US Headquarters is about 30 minutes away if I have any issues. Some other little things about the Felder: it has a sanding unit as an option, though I don't plan to use it. Also, I have a Hammer miter guide for my sliding table-saw that should work with the bandsaw.

Are there any woodworkers out there with experience with these two saws? Are there advantages and disadvantages I may not be thinking of? Most reviews I see of the Lagunas are from many years ago. Do they have the same build quality in 2019?

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Local is important, but in the end I'd go with the one that weighed the most.

[Daniel Vinsand]

Local is important, but in the end I'd go with the one that weighed the most.

They weigh about the same 520lb and 540lb if I remember right

[Dave Sabo]

It comes down to whether you like the Laguma Guides better than the frankenstein ones on the Felder ; and whether you value a Baldor motor over whatever they're is putting on their NA bandsaws.

The lower guide dust port is nice, but you can add one to the laguna pretty easily. If you want the ultimate , 10% more gets you the 18HD which takes a 2" blade and has a lower dust port.

[John TenEyck]

If you dig a little via the search function you will find a review of the Felder that showed, with data, that it cannot easily put 25 K psi on a 1" blade. While it's still a fine saw, it's not in the league of the MM16 nor the Grizzly G0636X in terms of being able to tension a blade. I'm not too familar with Laguna BS's, but know the ones made in Italy are well regarded. For my resawing/veneering slicing needs the Felder would not make the grade. If you haven't considered the G0636X I recommend you give it a look. And if weight is a key factor, it wins.

John

[Daniel Vinsand]

If you dig a little via the search function you will find a review of the Felder that showed, with data, that it cannot easily put 25 K psi on a 1" blade. While it's still a fine saw, it's not in the league of the MM16 nor the Grizzly G0636X in terms of being able to tension a blade. I'm not too familar with Laguna BS's, but know the ones made in Italy are well regarded. For my resawing/veneering slicing needs the Felder would not make the grade. If you haven't considered the G0636X I recommend you give it a look. And if weight is a key factor, it wins.

John
Thanks John. I had not looked in to blade tensioning and will take that in to consideration. The Grizzly is definitely a heavy machine! I am considering the Laguna Italian 18 18 HD, so I think it will probably compare well.

[Daniel Vinsand]

It comes down to whether you like the Laguma Guides better than the frankenstein ones on the Felder ; and whether you value a Baldor motor over whatever they're is putting on their NA bandsaws.

The lower guide dust port is nice, but you can add one to the laguna pretty easily. If you want the ultimate , 10% more gets you the 18HD which takes a 2" blade and has a lower dust port.

The Felder I am looking at will be with the ceramic guides, so I think I am in the samw ballpark, though I do like the Laguna guides better on paper (never tried them). The Laguna says they have a Leeson motor; do you have any experience with the quality of those?

I looked at the HD Resaw Master, but it does not take a narrow blade at all, so since this will be the only bandsaw in my shop I think I should stick with more of an all-rounder.

[Tom Trees]

Has the Laguna got flat tires?
Table size might also be a consideration.
Definitely a plus having a bigger table especially if you don't have space for an infeed.

[Mark e Kessler]

The leeson was rock solid back in the day, not sure of current build quality but i jus sold a 25-30 year old ts that I bought new with a 3hp leeson still running strong. Pretty sure the Felder motors are rock solid as well, they are German made I think by ATB.

[David Kumm]

Both ATB and Leeson make some motors in China so no guarantees. The Laguna still looks to be an ACM. Resawing 18" takes a very strong frame and tension. I would want either Laguna or ACM to verify the saw could tension a 1" .032 blade to 25000. My preference would be either an ACM 24x17, or the FB 710 to get that tension. I would also talk seriously to John about his Grizzly. His advice always seems good and he doesn't drink kool aid to justify his choice. I'm a cast iron guy but my first saw was an ACM 18x12 and while lighter than the current ACM you are looking at, it wasn't even close to a resaw machine. My old Oliver 217 only has a 15" resaw but if I need a couple inches more I tension to 30000 and remove the top guide. The difference in frame strength needed to avoid twist between 12" and 18" is significant. A used three phase Centauro, or ACM 24x17 and a vfd can be found as an alternative too for less than either of your choices. Dave.

[Dave Sabo]

Lesson's USA motors are still great. Leeson / Blador are like Ford /Chevy. Thought Laguna was still using Baldor though.

Believe Felder has ceramic guides on the upper, but not lower and they are a bit of a bodge rather than a ground up design. Hence the Frankenstein comment.

German motors are pretty good in my book , but , still not as robust as a Baldor /Leeson when used over here. That's my experience anyway. I've got several 3+h.p. WEG motors.

Lagunas euro saws have flat tires.

[Jeff Ramsey]

I have an FB510 and it's fine for resawing (with the right blade). I don't know anything about the Laguna, so I can't comment. I wouldn't put too much stock in the two dust ports on the Felder; it still is dusty unless you build an under-table collection box with port. Felder's Delaware office is close enough to me, which is one of the reasons why I bought. I went to an open house there, and they're all knowledgeable and helpful. They make good tools. I had some tuning issues when it first arrived, and Felder was great with support. The FB510 is actually the only "new" tool in my shop; the rest are 70's vintage Delta and Powermatic tools.

[Cary Falk]

I purchased the Laguna LT18 earlier this year. It was between it and the Grizzly G0701. I went with the Laguna due to it being slightly cheaper at the tie with sales. It is not a bad saw but I will say I am a little underwhelmed by it for the money I paid. That being said, the dust port under the table is an easy fix. If you want pictures you can e-mail me at my first name dot last name at yahoo dot com.

[Ed Weiser]

For what it's worth, I have both the Felder FB510 and the Grizzly G0636X. The Felder WILL NOT tension a 1" band to 25K PSI. It is an excellent band saw for general use, however, with the ceramic guides and capable motor. The Grizzly is a true resaw and while fit and finish are not the equal of the Felder, for resawing it is a superb value.

[John TenEyck]

Another SMC member recently bought a Grizzly G0636X. I don't think he actually used it before deciding to upgrade the blade guides. Without too much hassle he installed the guides from a Laguna saw onto the Grizzly. In 3 years I've never had any trouble with or complaints about the stock guides on the Grizzly, but if one prefers ceramic guides it can be done.

His comments about the Grizzly with respect to resawing are consistent with my experience. Put a Woodmaster CT in it and be prepared to be amazed.

John

[Tom Hyde]

I can't speak to the comparisons. All I can say is that I bought a Mini-Max s400p (MM16) four years ago (based on input here) and I'm incredibly happy I just sucked up the initial pain in the wallet. It's the center of nearly everything I do in the shop. Running a 1" Woodmaster CT tensioned at 25K+ is just amazing. I use it four or five days a week cutting everything from cedar to oak to cherry up to 12/4 and occasionally beyond. Or veneer. It just works, and works well. That's my main guideline, I cannot stand having to "fuss" with machines.

[Alan Lightstone]

Not sure about the FB510, as I own a FB710 which easily tensions that blade to 25K.

Overall I very much like the bandsaw, much more than my previous Laguna LT14, although I realize they are not in the same league. I found many build issues with the Laguna. None with the Felder. The motor was a very strong Baldor on the Laguna, however.

[Stewart Lang]

Can't speak to the Felder, but I currently have a Grizzly G0566 (21" x 14" resaw) and I love it. Grizzly's quality seems to goes up every year based on keeping up with other people's reviews. Laguna seems like their reputation is dropping. Lack of customer support, issues with electronics, etc. I used to have a Laguna Resaw Master and honestly the build quality didn't impress me much. They can make a machine look "cool" with their color scheme, but they seem to live off that more than anything.

I also keep a very good eye on the used machinery market around myself, and the largest number of bandsaws that pop up are always Laguna's. You can read into that how you want.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Leeson was started by the son of Baldor's founder (Lee Doerr).
Many regard them superior.

[Rob Charles]

I have a number of Leeson (TEFC & Washdown duty) motors that are worked hard in a commercial pump application. They just keep on going. I have had a comparable Baldor fail in the same application. I prefer Leeson over Baldor.

[Derek Cohen]

I have the FB510's little brother, a Hammer N4400. This is a 17 1/2" machine. I am onto my second Woodmaster CT 1" blade. The first ran for about 3 years, and recently I purchased another. There is a considerable difference between these two blades, which suggests to me that it may be hasty to reach definitive conclusions about the capacity of the FB510 to tension one.

On the first blade, I could get it to tension on the N4400 - no tension meter, but it tightened into the 1" region on the bandsaw's scale. It was hard work tightening the blade down, but it could do so. The new blade tensions so much more easily, and runs into (and beyond) the 1" setting with much less effort. It feels like it could tension higher, if I so chose.

The saw cut off the new blade is also so much cleaner. It feels like a different blade!

https://i.postimg.cc/cC6nXPQ2/Resaw2.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/KjVgVQfz/Resaw1.jpg

I have no hesitation in recommending the 1" Woodmaster CT for the FB510 if it is like the second blade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Walsh]

I have a MM20. It’s one of the few machines I have purchased that I have nothing bad to say about. It does what it is supposed to and has offered me no headaches.

I have four Felder machines and I can’t say that about even one of them. They are good enough I guess but far from the expectation you have a as woodworker spending big money on a task purposes machine.

FYI I think don’t mark my worlds but SCMI is not longer rebranding Centuro bandsaws but are not rebranding another makers. If so honestly I’d be looking for a Centuro.

I agree the saw is a resale, if you can fit the height get the 24”


Dust collection stinks on all bandsaws. We can’t all have a dedicated 1200 CRM on a bandsaw Brian. Must be nice ;)

[John TenEyck]

Without a tension meter you are just guessing. It could be too hot, too cold, or just right. It may still cut fine but performance and/or life expectancy won't be optimum. If those two blades were identical then something seems amiss with the tension mechanism of your saw, because the properties of the steel bands don't vary much. But different gage, even a different tpi would change the force required to tension the blade to the same value.

John

[Derek Cohen]

Without a tension meter you are just guessing. It could be too hot, too cold, or just right. It may still cut fine but performance and/or life expectancy won't be optimum. If those two blades were identical then something seems amiss with the tension mechanism of your saw, because the properties of the steel bands don't vary much. But different gage, even a different tpi would change the force required to tension the blade to the same value.

John

John, one blade appears stiffer, less stretchy, than the other. This is determined by the gauge on the bandsaw. I have not measured their thicknesses. This appears the same, and they are the same blade brand, model and size (1" wide and 1.3 tpi). They do not act the same. I do not need a dedicated tension meter to set up a blade. I have judged this with ear and eye for some decades now. Perhaps the steel composition is different?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mick Simon]

I have a MM20. It’s one of the few machines I have purchased that I have nothing bad to say about. It does what it is supposed to and has offered me no headaches.

FYI I think don’t mark my worlds but SCMI is not longer rebranding Centuro bandsaws but are not rebranding another makers. If so honestly I’d be looking for a Centuro.



I purchased the SCM MM20 S500P in August. It's a rebranded Centauro.

420482

I have seen on the SCM UK site what appear to be ACM rebranded models with models like S440P, S540P, etc.

[John TenEyck]

At $150 or more for a Woodmaster CT I want to know what the tension is. It costs $25 or less to make one. Seems like a sound investment to me. And you would know if those two blades truly were different.

John

[Mark e Kessler]

If you want to get agricultural about it and spend no money take a caliper lying around just clamp it to the blade and do the math... youngs modulus, cross sectional area of blade, blablabla...

[John TenEyck]

If you want to get agricultural about it and spend no money take a caliper lying around just clamp it to the blade and do the math... youngs modulus, cross sectional area of blade, blablabla...


Yes, a set of Vernier calipers works fine. Or you can build something a little nicer, like this: https://sites.google.com/site/jteneyckwoodworker/current-projects/bandsaw-blade-tension-meter

In any case, you don't need to know the cross sectional area of the blade, only the distance between the jaws of the Vernier or tension meter. See the link.

John

[Mark e Kessler]

Correct, if you just want to tension the blade to known psi then you do not need the cross section area of the blade, if you only have the recommended force from the manufacturer then you would


Yes, a set of Vernier calipers works fine. Or you can build something a little nicer, like this: https://sites.google.com/site/jteneyckwoodworker/current-projects/bandsaw-blade-tension-meter

In any case, you don't need to know the cross sectional area of the blade, only the distance between the jaws of the Vernier or tension meter. See the link.

John