Newton E30 edge sander

[Mark e Kessler]

Anyone have any experience or knowledge of this sander? Looks like its a late 40’s early 50’s machine. Worth $750-1k?

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=2944

417167

[Matt Day]

That is my quest edge sander for my small shop, been hunting for one for a while.

Whether it’s worth it to you is up to you. But $750 would probably be my upper limit unless it’s been well cared for and maintained and ready to run.

[jack duren]

Maybe a great sander is it runs correctly. Now if it breaks down can it be repaired or does it become the next parts machine for the next one that breaks down... if your a cabinet maker it's used a lot and can't break down..

[Matt Day]

Good points Jack. I want one for its size, and because I like vintage machinery. If I needed it to put bread on the table I’d pick something else.

[Rob Charles]

Until your post, I was unfamiliar with this sander. In looking at the sales brochure PDF, it has great features. About the only negatives appear to be" 1) the relatively short platen length & 2) listed only as a 3 phase. But, it you do not need the length it does not matter. I like the table features, dual motors, ability to rotate, & the ability to also use as a spindle sander with various size spindles. Depending upon the area, I can understand how a complete oscillating model in single phase (if there is such a version or conversion) version in very good condition with the interchangeable spindles could sell in that price range. I suspect that price range might be high for a 3 phase &/or a non-oscillating one in lesser condition.

[Darcy Warner]

They are great little Sanders. Mostly made from off the shelf parts, super simple machines. They fetch about 1800 for a plug and play machine on the used retail end.

[Mark e Kessler]

Could it run on a vfd? Me no have 3P... I think I might offer $750 its about 2 hrs from me. Looks like it is built like a beast for the size, i like that it has an 8” belt and its compact size.

mark


They are great little Sanders. Mostly made from off the shelf parts, super simple machines. They fetch about 1800 for a plug and play machine on the used retail end.

[Darcy Warner]

Could it run on a vfd? Me no have 3P... I think I might offer $750 its about 2 hrs from me. Looks like it is built like a beast for the size, i like that it has an 8” belt and its compact size.

mark

Yes you can. A fuji vfd is about 225 bucks to run it.

Cool newton fact, there are 4 holes inside base that with the right caster, it will sit a 1/2" off the ground and move easy.

[Terry Therneau]

I have an Ekstrom-Carlson with the same belt size, not oscillating, but otherwise of similar quality (that is, high). I use it on every single job. I paid more for mine and would buy it again in a minute. There is a saying that an edge sander is one of the last machines you will buy, but also one of the last you will sell.

Get it before someone else does.

Terry T.

[Rob Charles]

Could it run on a vfd? Me no have 3P... I think I might offer $750 its about 2 hrs from me. Looks like it is built like a beast for the size, i like that it has an 8” belt and its compact size.

mark

I did not realize that a VFD could simultaneously run 2 motors of different ratings (per the Newton brochure 3 hp for the sander & 1/3 hp for the oscillating mech.). Can all VFDs do that, or does it take a unique type?

[John Sincerbeaux]

I really don’t know that answer but a 3 ph converter converts 1ph to 3 ph for a machine to use It however it was designed (single or multiple motors).
A VFD does the same thing, no?

[Mark e Kessler]

You could run both with one Vfd, but if you want to control the speed individually you would need 2 Vfd's. would be nice to control the speed of the belt but doing that with one Vfd would also slow the oscillation.


I did not realize that a VFD could simultaneously run 2 motors of different ratings (per the Newton brochure 3 hp for the sander & 1/3 hp for the oscillating mech.). Can all VFDs do that, or does it take a unique type?

[John Sincerbeaux]

On a separate note, when I first started looking for an edge sander, I discovered the Newton. I liked everything about it especially the oscillating head which I think is superior to belt oscillating machines. I couldn’t find a Newton at the time but the features stuck with me in what I wanted in a sander. I ended up buying a Kundig Uniq which really is very similar to the Newton except the price of course.
If I were in the market for an edge sander I would be all over the sander in the ad. I would go through it, paint it, and use it daily. Edge sanders are “fabricators” not just for edges.

[Mark e Kessler]

Dude says it runs smooth with no bearing noise, he bought it in the early 80’s from a used equipment sellers. Used in a one man shop and hasn’t been using it for the past few years.

[Rob Charles]

Hopefully, these follow-up question is not too far off track:
1. When sizing for multiple motors, is is sufficient to size for the larger? Or does one size for the combined? (Understood that in this application, the 1/3 hp oscillation motor effect is probably negligible).
2. When using a single VFD for 2 motors, can they be independently switched? Or must start/stop simultaneously?
3. Any cautions on ramp up/ramp down speeds when programming?

Thanks. I have learned something today.


You could run both with one Vfd, but if you want to control the speed individually you would need 2 Vfd's. would be nice to control the speed of the belt but doing that with one Vfd would also slow the oscillation.

[Mark e Kessler]

1. Need to size for both, so if the main is 3 and the oscillation is 1/3 I would get a 4hp
2. Independent, start the VFD 1st (obviously) then one or the other then the other one...
3. Not sure on that



Hopefully, these follow-up question is not too far off track:
1. When sizing for multiple motors, is is sufficient to size for the larger? Or does one size for the combined? (Understood that in this application, the 1/3 hp oscillation motor effect is probably negligible).
2. When using a single VFD for 2 motors, can they be independently switched? Or must start/stop simultaneously?
3. Any cautions on ramp up/ramp down speeds when programming?

Thanks. I have learned something today.

[Mark e Kessler]

Got him down to $800, don’t think he will down from there. Honestly my biggest issue is dealing with it, i need to rent a trailer drive 1.5 hr get it loaded by myself (I don’t have any friends...) weighs like 900 pds then get it up my steep drive and turn around somehow with out rolling down the mountain and still need to get a vfd... And I am still dealing with the issues of my new Felder equipment that they are taking their sweet slow time to resolve... ok now I am just whining like a big spoiled baby...


They are great little Sanders. Mostly made from off the shelf parts, super simple machines. They fetch about 1800 for a plug and play machine on the used retail end.

[Matt Day]

Yes, you are whining. Rent a couple friends and go get it!

[Rob Charles]

Matt offers sage counsel. Too many times I have hesitated going to get a tool that I wanted & was a fair price only to find that once I was ready to commit, someone less had already purchased it. If you really do want it, don't make that mistake as I doubt that a sander such as this comes along.

[Darcy Warner]

900 pounds isn't heavy.

[John Sincerbeaux]

900 pounds isn't heavy.

I have a friend that obliterated three of his fingertips doing flys with 65lb dumb bells. He thought the floor was clear of weights. Dropped the dumb bell on top of another with fingers between. Three fingertips had to be sewn back on. 65 lbs isn’t heavy either.

[Darcy Warner]

I have a friend that obliterated three of his fingertips doing flys with 65lb dumb bells. He thought the floor was clear of weights. Dropped the dumb bell on top of another with fingers between. Three fingertips had to be sewn back on. 65 lbs isn’t heavy either.

900 pounds still isn't very heavy.

[David Kumm]

Everything is relative. Darcy is a pro but I'm just a hobby guy and moving 900 lb machinery is easy. I've moved 6000 lb machines and that is hard. A Johnson bar, a couple of dollys, a few pipes, or a pallet jack, and a couple of 4x4, and you are good to go. You can rent a drop deck trailer, or roll the machine up a ramp if you need to with a come a long to help. You can also take stuff off a pickup with an engine hoist. The point is, 900 lb machines can be moved without a lot of expensive equipment. Dollys are $30 each, pipes are cheap, and you can rent pallet jacks and hoists for that light of a load ( even they aren't expensive and have a million uses ). The hauling is another learning experience in life and the rewards are great. My first haul were three machines at 2000 lbs each from NC to WI which is like being thrown in the deep end of the pool but it got handled. You will find this machine is easy to deal with if you think it through. Dave

[John Sincerbeaux]

900 pounds still isn't very heavy.

I say BS.... respectfully of course!
It’s easy to say 900lbs isn’t heavy when you’re not lifting it or have any skin in the game. A fork lift can make you feel pretty strong I guess?
I would venture there are not many guys here that can bench press 1/3 of the weight of that sander? Anyone try picking up a 900lb motorcycle that is on it’s side?

[Matt Day]

I agree 900lbs isn’t “heavy” if you have half a brain and are prepared with the proper equipment. My planer is 1200 and so is my jointer and I am really a hobby guy, unlike Dave K. ;-)

If you’re used to lunchbox planers and benchtop stuff, yeah, 900lbs seems daunting. Point is, do some homework and get the right equipment (no, you don’t need a forklift) and you’ll be able to handle it.

[Matt Day]

I would venture there are not many guys here that can bench press 1/3 of the weight of that sander?

You clearly don’t have any experience moving big machines and are missing the point. No one here is going to manhandle 900lbs with bare hands. One must use mechanical advantage, wheels (and pipes) and hydraulics, and most importantly brains.

[Larry Edgerton]

I saw that one for sale, been looking for a slightly smaller edge sander, was just a bit short for what I want, but a nice looking unit. found a video of one working, slick.

900 pounds is easy, just have to think it through. A neighbor with a 30hp tractor with a loader could easily lift it off the trailer. I paid a Home Depot driver to lift a 3300# shaper off my trailer that my tractor could not handle. $50 and he set it inside my shop, rolled on pipes from there.

[John Sincerbeaux]

You clearly don’t have any experience moving big machines and are missing the point. No one here is going to manhandle 900lbs with bare hands. One must use mechanical advantage, wheels (and pipes) and hydraulics, and most importantly brains.

Matt, “you clearly” don’t know me.
All my machines are north of 2000 lbs with the heaviest being 3000 lbs. I’ve moved all of them with every method from by hand to by forklift.
I never said that it can’t be done or it would be hard. I just think it’s kinda disingenuous to say 900lbs isn’t heavy to the average woodworker who doesn’t own a forklift.

[Matt Day]

An engine hoist can take the place of a forklift and a lot cheaper. Mine’s paid for itself.

Agreed, you need some supplies to do it but I think the general point is not to give up on it because it’s a little “heavy”. And you don’t need a forklift.

[Darcy Warner]

I say BS.... respectfully of course!
It’s easy to say 900lbs isn’t heavy when you’re not lifting it or have any skin in the game. A fork lift can make you feel pretty strong I guess?
I would venture there are not many guys here that can bench press 1/3 of the weight of that sander? Anyone try picking up a 900lb motorcycle that is on it’s side?

I have moved stuff that weighs 6k pounds by myself with no forklift, only simple tools.

I have pushed 10k pound machines through buildings with no forklift.

Levers, fulcrum, rollers. Simple stuff.

[Rob Charles]

I have moved stuff that weighs 6k pounds by myself with no forklift, only simple tools.

I have pushed 10k pound machines through buildings with no forklift.

Levers, fulcrum, rollers. Simple stuff.

Over the years I have been lucky enough to have been involved in a few house lifting & moving operations, some heavy overhead rigging operations, and rigged few machines overhead solo. Agreed that is is simple & basic stuff along with basic fundamental safety procedures, knowing & understanding balance points, etc. But, if one does not know how & is not comfortable moving a load, even a 900 load, IMHO, they are wise & prudent not to attempt it. Far lesser loads handled improperly can cause serious injury & damage. A machine will not by much use to the purchaser if an injury obtaining it prevents them from being able to use & enjoy it.

[Frederick Skelly]

Man, it sounds like a couple of you boys ought to be buildin' pyramids, instead of doin' woodworking.
I'm impressed! (I'm also a wise guy and I just couldn't resist. :) :) :) )

Have a good one!
Fred

[Rob Charles]

At the end of some days, I do feel as if I had been dragging around pyramid sized stones.

[Darcy Warner]

Over the years I have been lucky enough to have been involved in a few house lifting & moving operations, some heavy overhead rigging operations, and rigged few machines overhead solo. Agreed that is is simple & basic stuff along with basic fundamental safety procedures, knowing & understanding balance points, etc. But, if one does not know how & is not comfortable moving a load, even a 900 load, IMHO, they are wise & prudent not to attempt it. Far lesser loads handled improperly can cause serious injury & damage. A machine will not by much use to the purchaser if an injury obtaining it prevents them from being able to use & enjoy it.

You can't go through life being scared to try something different

[Rob Charles]

You can't go through life being scared to try something different

Yes, But, I am old enough & wise enough to know that some people should not attempt things that they are not comfortable with. Some are naturals at somethings. Others are not. Some rise to the challenge & others let the unknown doom them to failure. What's the paraphrase of the Mark Twain quote? Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement !