Festool track saw failure / repair cost

[David Gutierrez]

So my TS 55 festool track stopped working. went to use it and it just did not turn on. i checked and it was getting power but no joy. So i sent it to the festool repair center and received a repair estimate of $278!! basically replacing the entire innards of the saw, and this is on top of the $80 to ship it to the repairs center.
I do wood working hobby and this saw although 4 or 5 years old ( not sure when i purchased it) has only seen light use breaking down plywood. i cannot understand how such and expensive tool could need a complete motor replacement with such little use!! the repair estimate includes replacement of the armature, field assembly, ball bearing, brush and motor housing.
This is tool that has never left my shop, which by the way is my basement and heated & cooled.

it has got me thinking of looking elsewhere for a new track saw and selling off my MFT table, tracks etc

i have no problem paying for good tools but see no value in paying for 60% of the cost of the tool every 5 years to keep it working. Thought is was going to be able to use this for many years before replacement.

Guess i am just belly aching but was wondering if others have had similar experiences and what you guys might do in my situation?
should i look to dewalt or makita ? will they last any longer?

[Doug Dawson]

So my TS 55 festool track stopped working. went to use it and it just did not turn on. i checked and it was getting power but no joy. So i sent it to the festool repair center and received a repair estimate of $278!! basically replacing the entire innards of the saw, and this is on top of the $80 to ship it to the repairs center.
I do wood working hobby and this saw although 4 or 5 years old ( not sure when i purchased it) has only seen light use breaking down plywood. i cannot understand how such and expensive tool could need a complete motor replacement with such little use!! the repair estimate includes replacement of the armature, field assembly, ball bearing, brush and motor housing.
This is tool that has never left my shop, which by the way is my basement and heated & cooled.

it has got me thinking of looking elsewhere for a new track saw and selling off my MFT table, tracks etc

i have no problem paying for good tools but see no value in paying for 60% of the cost of the tool every 5 years to keep it working. Thought is was going to be able to use this for many years before replacement.

Guess i am just belly aching but was wondering if others have had similar experiences and what you guys might do in my situation?
should i look to dewalt or makita ? will they last any longer?

The Festool and Makita tracks etc. are interchangeable. Don't know about the DeWalt.

As the Festool is out of warranty, maybe somebody more local could fix it for cheaper. How hard could it be? Parts should be available, right? Given your light use, it's not like you could have blown the entire innards out of it. It might be fun to take it apart (there are Youtube videos on this.)

[Paul F Franklin]

I feel your pain; the saying goes that you only pay for good tools once, but pay for bad tools over and over. But when manufacturers seem to treat repair as a separate income stream instead of a support function, the saying proves wrong.

When oscillating multi-tools were introduced, I bought the top of the line fein kit, for stupid money. I did not use it all that often, but a few months past the warranty, the little eccentric arm that converts the rotary motion to the oscillating motion broke. Reading reviews online, this was a common complaint, so pretty clearly a poor design. Fein wanted $90 for the part! Just the part, not repair. I tossed the whole lot in the scrap pile and bought the cordless Dewalt, which BTW, runs rings around the much more expensive Fein. The dewalt is still going strong, several years later.

[Rick Alexander]

Apparently not that rare for Festool either. There's been one for sale on Craig's list here for months for $100 that has the same issue and looks like it's brand new appearance wise.

[Bill Dufour]

I would guess bad switch or worn brushes.

[john lawson]

When I have this happen I treat as a throw a way, but put it aside and do some research. Example, I have a lake house that I rent out. I got a call over the 4th of July that my refrigerator was not working. Since I had a paying renter (high rate), the refrigerator was 11 years old and it was a holiday I had to replace it; $2200, but I had them put the old refrigerator on the deck.

After some research I found out that newer energy efficient refrigerators use a 3 phase compressor and often the inverters go out. It would cost $600 for a repairmen to fix it, $200 plus for the original GE part, an Embarco inverter, or order it from China. After a couple of hours of research I found a part in China (original equipment) for $34 including shipping. I got the part, took 15 minutes to swap the inverter and it works like new. So, now I have a "beer and drinks" refrigerator that sits on my deck, and my wife can use it for overflow.

If you have the time try to figure out whats wrong and find a source for the component that went bad, Festool probably did not make the component but someone did and will usually sell it for a lot less than Festool and repair it as a backup. Meanwhile but a Makita, I believe they are made better.

[peter gagliardi]

The problem with the Festool saws, drills, and chopsaws is that they are fairly underpowered compared to most construction/shop equipment.
Since they struggle to machine even modest material, that leads to premature failure. I have a LOT of money invested in Festool stuff, and the lack of power in these particular tools is quite disappointing.
A tool needs to be engineered to have and deliver MORE power than is needed on the average job if it has any hope of surviving for any length of time.
Very common with a lot of euro motors and machines- barely up to the task it is designed for, which leads to heat, which leads to death of the tool.
“On paper good design”, does not necessarily equate to “actual, useful good design”.

[Brian Holcombe]

I have the same complaint as Peter, I use the routers and have otherwise greatly reduced the amount of Festool stuff I use. I have such little patience for the track saw anymore that I’d rather draw a line and bandsaw by eye.

These tools seem engineered for 18mm plywood and everything else is a struggle even when conditions are met such as proper blade.

My Kapex struggled through most cuts, especially in heavy material where the similarly sized bit appropriately motored OMGA cuts through 12/4 ash like it’s not even there.

[Ken Kortge]

I have the same complaint as Peter ...

Peter & Brian,

While they don't seem to have the massive following that F-tool has, for quite a few years I've used the Eurekazone EZ Smart tracks (http://www.eurekazone.com) that can be mated with your own circular saw of choice using their so-called "Smart Base" that rides on the tracks . You can buy & install the base yourself ($50, not too hard to install) or you can have them add the base and a dust collection port (they call this an EZ Ready saw). Their system even allows you to use a Makita 5402NA 16-5/16 inch circular saw!! Makita circular saws seem to be a favorite of the Eurekazone track users, but I can't speak to why. I have a Makita, a Hitachi, and a Bosch cordless and they all seem to perform well for me.

If someone goes in that direction I recommend they get a 64" track ($132, on sale now for $90) for cutting 48" plywood, and add an additional 54" track ($112, on sale now for $77) if cutting 96" plywood. You'll also want a pair of their track clamps (that clamp the track to the material) and if connecting two tracks, a pair of track connectors. The tracks are unique in that (1) they are beefier than others - think I-beam, and (2) the tracks have dovetail shaped slots rather than rectangular slots, so that two connected tracks auto-align straight.

[David Gutierrez]

All
Thanks for the replies i will be getting rid of my festool accessories and start a search for a new track saw. So is it worth the $20 for them to ship it back to me???hmm maybe...
i will be looking at hard at Makita and perhaps keep my MFT and Festool tracks.

Thanks

[Doug Dawson]

All
Thanks for the replies i will be getting rid of my festool accessories and start a search for a new track saw. So is it worth the $20 for them to ship it back to me???hmm maybe...
i will be looking at hard at Makita and perhaps keep my MFT and Festool tracks.


It may not be worth 20 bucks to _you_ but if I give you 20 bucks, will you have them ship it back directly to _me_? :^)

BTW, I really like Makita's corded tools (no personal experience with their cordless.)

[Jeff Bartley]

David,
I have a Dewalt that's 11 years old. This saw has seen many hours of use (I'm a carpenter) and it's still going strong. I've often said that if anything happened to that saw I'd buy another the next day. But I do wish they made one comparable to the bigger Festool.

[Mike Cutler]

All
Thanks for the replies i will be getting rid of my festool accessories and start a search for a new track saw. So is it worth the $20 for them to ship it back to me???hmm maybe...
i will be looking at hard at Makita and perhaps keep my MFT and Festool tracks.

Thanks

David
Yes, have it shipped back to you. Unless you want to give someone at the repair center a repairable saw. I guarantee you it won't cost them $278.00 dollars to repair it.
Repair centers work on a modular replacement philosophy. You may only have a broken, or pinched, wire, but they're going to replace an entire assembly that has that broken wire.
I don't know how mechanically inclined you are, but there are quite a few repair videos for the TS-55 on You Tube. Including a few that are complete tear downs and reassembly. Parts are available online also for the TS-55.
If it's not worth the hassle, then take Doug up on his offer.
Don't give it away to the repair center. ;)

[Jim Dwight]

A quick google search says a Makita track saw without tracks is $356. DeWalt is about the same and I saw reports that said both will work fine on the Festool track. That seems like a better deal to me than the repair - probably. I would pay the $20 and get the Festool back, poke around at it, check the brushes, clean the communtator, bypass the switch maybe bypass the speed control, and if none of that works, make the final decision. Each saw has some plusses and minuses.

There is a tear down youtube by a guy "Boltor" or something like that where he tears down a saw like yours and basically says the parts are nothing special. Festool does a GREAT job coming up with systems that work. But outside of the domino and maybe the Rotex 90 you can get at least very similar tools, possibly in some ways better tools, in other brands.

I use and like the DeWalt but the Makita typically gets as good or better reviews. If either broke, I think the repair quote would be less than the Festool - but that is a guess. Festool is quoting you about 1/2 what a new TS55 sells for but that is about 2/3 of what the others cost.

I've had my DeWalt at least as long as you have had the Festool and it is working fine. I definitely do not baby tools. It has fallen from my workbench to the concrete floor and been used to cut wood with nails in it, thick hardwoods, etc.. I've worn out one blade and damaged another with the nails. I also cut drywall with it sometimes. I think it's pretty rugged.

[Tim M Tuttle]

David,
I have a Dewalt that's 11 years old. This saw has seen many hours of use (I'm a carpenter) and it's still going strong. I've often said that if anything happened to that saw I'd buy another the next day. But I do wish they made one comparable to the bigger Festool.

I have the cordless Dewalt and love it.

[Tim M Tuttle]

So my TS 55 festool track stopped working. went to use it and it just did not turn on. i checked and it was getting power but no joy. So i sent it to the festool repair center and received a repair estimate of $278!! basically replacing the entire innards of the saw, and this is on top of the $80 to ship it to the repairs center.
I do wood working hobby and this saw although 4 or 5 years old ( not sure when i purchased it) has only seen light use breaking down plywood. i cannot understand how such and expensive tool could need a complete motor replacement with such little use!! the repair estimate includes replacement of the armature, field assembly, ball bearing, brush and motor housing.
This is tool that has never left my shop, which by the way is my basement and heated & cooled.

it has got me thinking of looking elsewhere for a new track saw and selling off my MFT table, tracks etc

i have no problem paying for good tools but see no value in paying for 60% of the cost of the tool every 5 years to keep it working. Thought is was going to be able to use this for many years before replacement.

Guess i am just belly aching but was wondering if others have had similar experiences and what you guys might do in my situation?
should i look to dewalt or makita ? will they last any longer?

I've only been in the woodworking hobby for a few years but I voracious reader on the powertool subject and yours seems a fairly common complaint in regards to Festool products. The only Festool product I own is the Domino 500 and it works well but I haven't had it long or used it very much to this point. I liken Festool to Apple; very innovative in some regards, outrageously expensive for what you get, incredibly proprietary, prone to breaking, and underpowered compared to other similar products. I say this as both an Apple and Festool user. However, it's really quite aggravating to spend that kind of money and not get what should be the expected full, useful life out of a product without having a drop a considerable amount on repairs.

If you go with another brand, Makita sounds like the winner because it can work with all (I think) of the Festool accessories including the Woodpeckers squaring jig. I have a DeWalt and really wish I could use that squaring jig with mine.

[Brian Holcombe]

The pricing is moderate for tools in a similar class but 'expensive' by comparison the Big box stool stools. When you look at drills, as example, if you compare to Hilti and Metabo than Festool doesn't stand out as being particularly expensive.

Same goes for track saws when you add Mafell into the mix, that is the direction I'm leaning. According to my research the arbor on the Mafell 55 is also 20mm, so at least I'd be able to repurpose some blades, which are Tenryuu not Festool.

[Edwin Santos]

A broken (non-operating) Festool TS55 with systainer sold recently on eBay for $218, presumably for parts. The rail and blade were not included. So that might be an option for you. If you could get a similar price, you might be in a position to buy the Makita and not be out as much as you originally thought.

In fact, by my estimate if you sold the track and blade also, either as a bundle or separately, if your're lucky you might be able to get a new Makita or DeWalt kit as a replacement and come out completely whole.

[Richard Coers]

All
Thanks for the replies i will be getting rid of my festool accessories and start a search for a new track saw. So is it worth the $20 for them to ship it back to me???hmm maybe...
i will be looking at hard at Makita and perhaps keep my MFT and Festool tracks.

Thanks

I'd take a few breaths if I were you. Sure you are angry. If this decision is purely a financial one, loosing money on the saw and all the accessories and then spending more for a replacement brand will certainly cost more than $285. Like others have said, take it to a power tool repair shop first. I thought I bent a blade on my Kapex after a kickback. I was upset to spend $40 for a special washer that had bent instead, but the anger went away. Anything on youtube? There was a guy who video taped a Kapex rebuild. Made my doing the repair really easy. It would really be a shame to loose all that money over a set of worn brushes!!!! One last money justification, I spent $50 a year on a lot of useless crap, maybe not so bad for tools.

[David Gutierrez]

i requested Festool return the saw and upon reading the repair form i now know that they are going to return the saw disassembled? So i guess i will only have to figure out how to put it back together!! i will take a shot at repairing it.

Brian it is not the expense i am complaining about, i can afford that. i want to buy quality tools and included in that definition is a tool that functions well for years, especially when lightly used and not abused. really this saw probably has less time on it then a month of use by a full time professional. i still have my first skill saw purchased 25 years ago and a mag 77 that is at least 20 years old.

Ed that is a crazy price for non-working tools but I would take it in a heartbeat. I am getting mine back in piece!! So I have nothing lose trying to repair it or sell it.

Can anyone confirm that both the Dewalt and the Makita saws will work on the festool track? I have two 52” festool tracks, the track joiner kit and alignment bar that I hope to keep using. Perhaps I will get out to Berlands house of tools this week end and take a look at all the other track saws. Does anyone have experience with Bosch?

[Brian Holcombe]

I feel we're in complete agreement there, I am the same way in that I dont mind paying upfront for implied quality but I prefer the product to live up to a moderate expectation of use. I'm pretty easy on tools so, as example, it was very disappointing when my Kapex died. Festool repaired it at no cost to myself, but I felt that the machine was not robust if it could not live, in my shop, of all places where at least I felt I was being careful not to over-exert the machine.

I sold it because I felt it would die again eventually and would be no longer under warranty at that time.

The experience caused me to move away from the 'mobil cabinet shop' type tool to more stationary tools that can be repaired in a more normal fashion and are made to serve a lifetime in a factory. I like my tools to be quality and produce a quality result every single time I use them, not 60% of the time, or whatever.

I would rather apply a line and bandsaw cut most parts than spend time sawing them on the floor.

I still like their routers, no complaints there.

[Jerome Stanek]

The pricing is moderate for tools in a similar class but 'expensive' by comparison the Big box stool stools. When you look at drills, as example, if you compare to Hilti and Metabo than Festool doesn't stand out as being particularly expensive.

Same goes for track saws when you add Mafell into the mix, that is the direction I'm leaning. According to my research the arbor on the Mafell 55 is also 20mm, so at least I'd be able to repurpose some blades, which are Tenryuu not Festool.

The difference is a Hilti or Metabo will last you a life time with abuse. I have some Hilti and Metabo tools that are 35 plus years old and they traveled the country with me being used about 3 time a week every week that still work like new. Will a Festool do that.

[Rob Charles]

The Festool line has always "felt" a bit fragile to me, especially for the price. Jerome mentioned Metabo (Hitachi). My experience with the the Hitachi line was been excellent. I have & still use a Hitachi hand drill that I was given to me when I was a teenager when in Japan over 50 years ago. It was well used in a commercial Japanese shop prior to being gifted to me. It is well travelled, been abused, neglected but still works reliably.

[Robert Engel]

Also a TS55 owner, every time I use the saw I wonder "should it be making that noise" - doesn't sound like my other circ saws.

So now you got me wondering.......

If you trust Popular Woodworking, here is a quote from an article, available on line (https://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/tool-reviews/plunge-cut_saws/):

"But here’s what is attention grabbing: All three plunge-cut saws ride and operate on a Festool guide rail."

[Tim M Tuttle]

i requested Festool return the saw and upon reading the repair form i now know that they are going to return the saw disassembled? So i guess i will only have to figure out how to put it back together!! i will take a shot at repairing it.

Brian it is not the expense i am complaining about, i can afford that. i want to buy quality tools and included in that definition is a tool that functions well for years, especially when lightly used and not abused. really this saw probably has less time on it then a month of use by a full time professional. i still have my first skill saw purchased 25 years ago and a mag 77 that is at least 20 years old.

Ed that is a crazy price for non-working tools but I would take it in a heartbeat. I am getting mine back in piece!! So I have nothing lose trying to repair it or sell it.

Can anyone confirm that both the Dewalt and the Makita saws will work on the festool track? I have two 52” festool tracks, the track joiner kit and alignment bar that I hope to keep using. Perhaps I will get out to Berlands house of tools this week end and take a look at all the other track saws. Does anyone have experience with Bosch?

Pretty sure the DeWalt will not work with the Festool track. The extrusion on the DeWalt runs down the middle of the track while it runs closer to the side on the Festool/Makita.

[Tim M Tuttle]

Pretty sure the DeWalt will not work with the Festool track. The extrusion on the DeWalt runs down the middle of the track while it runs closer to the side on the Festool/Makita.

Actually, the DeWalt looks to have a slot offset to one side and I just read on another forum that it works with the Festool track. If that's the case I will probably be changing out my tracks to Festool. Sweet.

[Brian Holcombe]

The difference is a Hilti or Metabo will last you a life time with abuse. I have some Hilti and Metabo tools that are 35 plus years old and they traveled the country with me being used about 3 time a week every week that still work like new. Will a Festool do that.

A question I ponder as well. I have been using the OF1400 router pretty routinely for about 9 years, track saw is probably 6-7 years old. Kapex didn't make it a 2 years.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I own the Makita (cordless) track saw, have used both a TS55 and TS75 as well as the Mafell MT55 track saw. For an appropriately outfitted Mafell track saw setup comparable to my Makita setup (variety of tracks, clamps, etc) it would be around $1300-1500, and I have about half of that into my Makita setup (and it's cordless.) The Mafell track saw is the best track saw out there, but for what I do it's not a justifiable expense. I strongly considered buying one at the beginning of this year, but went Makita instead and am very happy with it. The tracks with the Mafell / Bosch are superior in design and how they hook together. I'd like to have a Mafell and Bosch side by side to really compare and contrast in person, but...

I'm a full-time, pro woodworker and finish carpenter and still find the Makita to be best suited to my work. I've never been impressed with the Festool track saws in comparison with the others. The motors just don't have any guts and sound like they are dying a slow death when cutting.

I really like Festool sanders, and the Domino is obviously a special tool that changes the game for a lot of folks (don't own one) but most of Festool's other tools don't have much of a use in my work that can't be filled with something else cheaper, more durable and able to achieve the same level of precision with ease. Just my opinion

[John TenEyck]

No dog in this fight, but my perspective on handheld power tools, miter saws, and the like are that none of them are lifetime tools. Some are better than others, but none are likely to stand up to years of use and abuse like stationary tools are designed to do. With that in mind I just see no point in paying 2X for any of them compared with the majority of the those in the "second tier". I've been perfectly happy with "second tier" portable tools with a long history of good value and durability. None have been perfect, but when something went wrong I either fixed it or bought another w/o losing sleep over feeling cheated. FWIW, some are over 25 years old and still going strong in the hands of a pretty serious hobbiest.

John

[Jeff Bartley]

i requested Festool return the saw and upon reading the repair form i now know that they are going to return the saw disassembled? So i guess i will only have to figure out how to put it back together!! i will take a shot at repairing it.



They're going to return it disassembled? That's certainly not a stumbling block for repairing it yourself, but are they leaving it disassembled just to save their shop time? Doesn't seem like they're trying to help the customer in any way!

[Mike Goetzke]

The Festool and Makita tracks etc. are interchangeable.

Just a caution here. I first replaced a bunch of my old track saw system components with the Makita cordless and never looked back. I was use to having a deeper cut saw for my rough sawn lumber so jumped on a Festool TS75 saw with 75" rail recon deal. What I found out was the guide rib to anti-chip edge on the rails is not the same. I think about 0.015" off. So the problem is you need to adjust the saw to the tracks constantly. I ended up selling the Festool rail and buying a Makita so all my rails are the same.

OP'r - if you are looking for a new saw I highly recommend the Makita cordless. Wasn't cheap but I added a Mafell dust bag to the Makita and no more leashes!

Mike

[DENNIS BURNS]

tear down of the festool TS55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oezp-_DcUgg&t=585s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mo2L_jFKmc

[Erik Loza]

Was just in a customer's shop who does lots of jobsite work and he got rid of the Festool for a Mafell.

Erik

[Phillip Mitchell]

Yep, that's what I was going to say in my previous post was that if I did strictly or even mostly job site finish work (cabinet installs, finish carpentry, etc) and didn't have a shop with a nice cabinet saw that I worked out of as much as I do, then I'd be able to justify the Mafell purchase for myself. I think that's really where it shines and becomes something that really pays for itself many times over in its durability, accuracy and efficiency. Hard for somebody to justify if they're working out of a well outfitted shop often.

I've used a lot of Mafell tools (mostly timber framing tools - portable bandsaw, chain mortiser, drill guides, beam saws) over the years and they are all worth the admission price if you're doing enough of those specific tasks at a high level of efficiency and accuracy, but for the hobbiest...eh, unless you just have cash to blow and want the absolute best.

[Mark Bolton]

I have the same complaint as Peter, I use the routers and have otherwise greatly reduced the amount of Festool stuff I use. I have such little patience for the track saw anymore that I’d rather draw a line and bandsaw by eye.

These tools seem engineered for 18mm plywood and everything else is a struggle even when conditions are met such as proper blade.

My Kapex struggled through most cuts, especially in heavy material where the similarly sized bit appropriately motored OMGA cuts through 12/4 ash like it’s not even there.


I had a short stint with a (now friend) who owned an industrial supply business and at the time (long ago) was a Metabo rep.. Had the joy of going to a couple of Metabo junkets, training, abrasives manufacturing, and so on. At that time they were the innovators in electronic tools (tools that run on 90 volts holding the remaining 30 in reserve an apply it as load is applied). Somewhat common now but still throws people for a loop when a tool races up and then throttles back to a lower speed before hitting the work. We struggled with these tools endlessly in our market (US) because with a tool like an angle grinder the typical user is use to gauging the amount of working being done (cutting action) by bogging the tool down and bearing down on it. They dont really pay attention to the actual work being done, its sound and feel. Needless to say, angle grinders would come back pretty much melted down. A couple were so freshly dead they were still smoking. This was because an electronic tool will pretty much never bog until death, it will just apply more power.

Long story longer,... in many of these events it was pretty much made clear that Metabo at that time was consciously abandoning the US market because they were making tools for people who knew how to use tools and respected tools. I remember at the time one of their rare re-branded tools was the old skill saw that had the grease reservoir with the cap below the trigger (may have been made by PC?) and periodically you were suppose to give that cap a 1/4 turn to push some fresh grease into the bearings of the saw. They said they had saws coming in with cooked bearings where the cap had never once been rotated. Today of course bearings are never an issue you just pitch the saw. I have a beautiful old milwaukee circular saw that I have replaced the bearings in perhaps 2-3 times in 35 years, re-brushed 2-3 times, a new switch or two, who knows how many cord replacements.

People dont care for tools like that anymore.

To the point of the Festool, I can only imagine the underpowered nature of the tool is that the german philosophy is you dont rip through a sheet of material as fast as we are accustomed to here in the US. You dont rout as fast, cut as fast, you dont push your tools as hard. You work as a master craftsman.

I'd love to have that luxury but I dont. Which is why there is not a Festool tool in my shop and never will be other than perhaps a Domino which would be very handy by the looks.

Hopefully they banked while banking was good because the alternate offerings out there are smoking them right now and if parts pricing is anything like their tool pricing repair (even self repair) will be pointless.

[Edwin Santos]

To the point of the Festool, I can only imagine the underpowered nature of the tool is that the german philosophy is you dont rip through a sheet of material as fast as we are accustomed to here in the US. You dont rout as fast, cut as fast, you dont push your tools as hard. You work as a master craftsman.



This is an interesting statement, and I think there is some merit to it. I have taken workshops with two well known master woodworkers, and each advocated taking it easier on tools, routing in multiple passes with smaller bites, etc.

[andrew whicker]

According to what I see on the two vendors websites, Mafell is only 60 watts / 0.1 HP 'stronger' than Festool. Am I missing something?

I never liked the buzziness of my Festool tracksaw. Seeing this thread has me a bit bummed that I spent so much money down this path. It's enlightening that I'm not the only who was questioning what they spent their hard earned dollars on.

[David Gutierrez]

since wood working is my hobby, not my living it i do not want to spend the money for a Mafell. i am going to look hard at Dewalt if i can use it with my festool tracks and MFT. i think makita or dewalt will provide the right value equation for me. i will take a look at Bosch no harm in looking.

[David Gutierrez]

yes they will not re- assembly with out further payment. as a side note i called and gave them my payment info yesterday and i recieved another call today requesting the payment info again. called them back and they are checking to be sure i have not being billed twice for the return shipping.
i will have some fun trying to repair it.

[Jim Dwight]

David,

Good luck. It may still work out. I often worry that when I take a car for repairs the mechanics just put on parts until it works. If some of them didn't need replaced, I will ever know. Hopefully that is what is going on with your saw.

I always thought the TS55 had a little smaller motor than others to help some people justify the TS75. There is a Festool Owners Group forum and there is a portion of it devoted to problems with Festool tools. People are pretty polite there even when you don't say totally good things about Festools. I wouldn't hessitate to visit and see if there is useful information. I haven't noticed a lot of issue with track saws but I wasn't really looking for that information either.

The only issue I've had with my DeWalt is changing blades. The process is kind of complicated, especially compared to the Festool, and I got frustrated with my saw when a button wouldn't depress (probably because of sawdust buildup I didn't take the time to address) and tapped it with a hammer. That broke off a little piece of the mechanism on a casting. But now it is actually quite a bit easier to change blades. Saw still works fine. But I would check out the blade change process before you buy a DeWalt. I think the criticism in that area is valid. The plunge mechanism is also different than the pivot the Festool and Makita make. I like it better but if you are used to the Festool you may not. I do not think criticism in that area is valid but I also think others have the right to prefer what they prefer. The Makita lacks a riving knife. The DeWalt anti-kickback device is probably better than Makita and Festool. You can also turn if off if you don't want to use it (or you like going backward on the track). Another thing you may want to check is whether the dado in the DeWalt saw adjusts for size to snug up on the Festool track. I am pretty sure you use a different dado of the base than the DeWalt track but I don' remember seeing the adjustment parts on both dados. If it doesn't do that, the fit on the festool track might be a little loose.

Jim

[Mike Cutler]

According to what I see on the two vendors websites, Mafell is only 60 watts / 0.1 HP 'stronger' than Festool. Am I missing something?

I never liked the buzziness of my Festool tracksaw. Seeing this thread has me a bit bummed that I spent so much money down this path. It's enlightening that I'm not the only who was questioning what they spent their hard earned dollars on.

Andrew
Don't be bummed out.
Yes tools can fail. All of them,regardless of color or brand. There is no tool sold that can be advertised with a zero failure rate.For every one tool failure you read about, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of others, exactly like it, that are quietly just doing the job they were bought for.
I live 3.5miles from a Home Depot and a Lowes. I also live 2.5 miles from an authorized DeWalt/Makita/Bosch/Milwaukee, repair center. That guy isn't hurting for business. ;)
Festool makes nice stuff, they really do, and they maintain the integrated system approach across the product line, and that's what you're buying into.
For the record, yes, I own some Festool tools. I have the TS-75 that had no problem ripping through 2" jatoba/padauk/bubinga,etc. slabs. I also have the OF 1400 and OF2200 routers. I have used a lot of routers in my life and none are as nice, or as powerful, as the OF2200. I also have a Carvex Jig saw. It's pretty cool. I don't use it alot, but it seems to work just fine.
Don't suffer buyers remorse, they're just tools. Take care of them, keep them clean, use them within their spec's, and they'll probably last you a long time.

[Brian Holcombe]

Mark, If that is true it certainly seems to run contrary to their machine building style which is typically extremely robust and powerful machinery.

In running mills I learned about ‘feeds and speeds’ every cutter has it’s theoretical ideal feed rate at a given speed so long as the machine is robust enough not to flex during the process. A machine that has power in excess and a high level of robustness is going to let the operator work at ideal speeds depending on the goal at hand. The goal in woodworking is a clean finish, without burning, that produces a dimensionally accurate result.

Point is, the cutter should be the limiting factor here, not the machinery. Working a saw too slowly through a cut invites burning. An underpowered saw does no one a favor, it draws excessive amperage, dies sooner than it should, more often burns the work, makes a rough finish and wears the cutter much more rapidly.

[Edwin Santos]

Brian, you're more experienced than I but I've adopted the "smaller bites" approach to my woodworking. This means lighter passes at the jointer, planer, router. I think removing less wood in more passes gives me a better quality of cut, but that's just intuitive, not based on some type of controlled test. Of course, this has less to do with feed rate and more to do with the amount of wood being removed in a given pass. This might not be a right/wrong thing, just two different approaches.

With track saws, I believe they mainly ship with finishing blades, and it is possible that what seems like lack of power to many users is really just the application of a too high a tooth pitch for the job at hand. I have three blades for my track saw and indeed if I use the finishing blade to cut hardwood or even dense sheet goods like Baltic Birch, it will act like it's under-powered when in reality it is just being limited by the blade. I too find it hard to believe that any of the Festool products are truly under-powered, but then again I don't own their track saw either so maybe it's not for me to say.

[Brian Holcombe]

It depends for me entirely on the process at hand. I’m not impatient with my tools, I don’t abuse them and I don’t overwork them. What I expect from a circular saw has no bearing on how I operate a router.

Cutting with a circular saw is something I want to do in one pass. Multiple passes waste my time and produce a worse cut.

Proper blade must be used, proper ‘feed’ rate as well and in my experience that festool really takes its time.

I take light passes with my jointer, I also take moderate or heavy passes, it depends on what I’m doing. If stock is far from flat I’m not taking .020” cuts, but if I’m running it again after setting it aside for a few weeks I will take as light a cut as the machinery allows and do so with a very slow speed.

Light cuts at a slow speed wears out your cutters considerably faster than moderate cuts at a moderate speed. Most cutter heads have an ideal cut, minimum and maximum.

[Jerome Stanek]

Sounds like Festools are to be used like a butter knife on a steak. As for routers the Porter Cable 7518-19 are pretty much the strongest out there and will out last most other brands

[Darcy Warner]

My 55 is 8 years old, never an issue and it hasn't led an easy life.

[Richard Coers]

Sounds like Festools are to be used like a butter knife on a steak. As for routers the Porter Cable 7518-19 are pretty much the strongest out there and will out last most other brands
I hate those routers, especially the 7518 fixed base. I used them in a commercial shop. Upside down in a table the dust settles into the grooves for the height adjustment pins and will lock it up if you don't completely remove the motor on occasion. The metal will also gall between the motor and housing over time. Lastly the speed control will hunt like crazy on heavy end grain cuts. It runs up to speed, then you do a big end grain cut and it slows dramatically before trying to come back up. Then you exit the cut and the motor overspeeds. It's a horse, but ancient technology!

[Donn Ward]

It appears that I am in the minority on this thread, but my experience with Festool has been more positive. I too have a lot invested in various Festool products and I have found the overall reliability to be on par, or better, than other brands that I own. While I do have several Festool products, by a large margin the sanders are the tools I use most often. A few years ago, one of the sanders was giving my a some problems so I called Festool technical support. I described the issue and the technician thought that is sounded like bad brushes. He gave me the option of sending the sander to them or ordering a set of brushes and fixing it my self. I ordered the brushes (can't remember the cost, but I do recall thinking it was reasonable), which fixed the problem.

[Brian Holcombe]

Donn,

While I complain about them, I generally like my Festool's, especially the router and sanders. I had a poor experience with the Kapex and I think the tracksaw is underpowered even though I generally enjoy using it (the tracksaw).

[Jim Becker]

It appears that I am in the minority on this thread, but my experience with Festool has been more positive.

Mine has also been very positive, including with my track saw. That said, there are documented issues with the track saw where some folks have faced failure like the OP and it can be frustrating when the tool is outside of the three year warranty. But then again...three year warranty. You don't get that with many tools.

While in general, Festool makes great products, there have been a few misses...it can happen with any company.

[Frank Pratt]

But then again...three year warranty. You don't get that with many tools.

Milwaukee has a 5 year warranty. I wish they would get into more woodworking tools.

[glenn bradley]

If it is out of warranty you have had the use of it for 3 years. Not a bad warranty period although it is odd that the tool would die of old age with so few hours of actual use. I spent the money I saved by going with the Makita GCS on a Domino ;-) I will say that I treat the Domino with TLC as it seems pretty delicate for its price point.

I'm not Festool bashing. I love them both. Festool made their bones in the at-the-tool dust collection arena. A category they still tend to win even when their tools, like their routers, fall further back in the pack during bake-offs. Remember the strengths you are buying for. We can't make a tool something it's not.

[Dave Sabo]

Donn,

While I complain about them, I generally like my Festool's, especially the router and sanders. I had a poor experience with the Kapex and I think the tracksaw is underpowered even though I generally enjoy using it (the tracksaw).

Lots of people have had trouble with the Kapex - way more than should give its $1500 piece tag. Festool's first response was to say there was no issue. Then the response was to tell customers they wern't cutting the right material with it. Then nothing for 2-3 more years after which they silently announced a revision with an "upgraded" motor accompanied by some marketing BS about more power and durable motor. :confused:

Wait, I thought there wasn't a problem ? ? ? ? ?

I like most of mine too, but I'm not a blind loyalist that thinks they walk on water. Most of their sanders are really good. Their EC models blow the electronics way more than they should though - when's the last time you read of a Mirka having electronic problems ? Yes, the 55 track saw is underpowered comparatively speaking. While they did invent the catagory , the have been eclipsed by others since the patent expired.

I suppose its its tough staying on top when your time is occupied on dreaming up subpar accessories that can generate huge margins through overpricing and M&A activities.

[Stephen Tashiro]

. i cannot understand how such and expensive tool could need a complete motor replacement with such little use!!

Probably not related to your problem, but what happens when tools are repeatedly used with long extension cords or on electrical outlets that aren't supplying the full voltage? Does this harm particular types of electric tools?

[Paul F Franklin]

Things like an incandescent light bulb or a toaster will draw less current and use less power when the applied voltage is lower than nominal. Most motors will draw *more* current when the applied voltage is lower, for a given load on the motor. The increased current flow through the motor windings generates extra heat. If the undervoltage is severe enough and load high enough, the motor will overheat and can be damaged. That's why there are always warnings about choosing a heavy enough extension cord when one is to be used. Damage from overheating can be cumulative as the insulation on the winding eventually degrades to the point of failure.

Motors with electronic controls often have protection circuity to limit the current draw of the motor to safe levels. I don't know whether or not the Festool motor has such protection built in.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

418469
I never drank the green Kool-Aid, but I would certainly be furious if I had the Kapex or tracksaw issues with price tags nearly double that of other brands. I went with the Makita track saw, and as others have already said, it fits the Festool tracks. I would get the Makita saw and keep the Festool accessories. I have used the Makita track saw extensively to break down huge slabs of mahogany, trim countless mahogany doors, and to resize all sorts of sheet goods. My only issue is the blades are hard to find locally, and the 20mm arbor makes for less aftermarket blade options.

Sorry, I remembered seeing this shirt and couldn’t resist. Also, I just remembered that I did buy a systainer on eBay that came with a ton of Veritas tools inside. It was a crazy deal. It’s a decent tool toting device.

[Ole Anderson]

This thread is confirming my decision to not drink the green Kool Aide as a good one. My first power tool is an old B&D 7-1/4" Sawcat purchased while still going to school nearly 50 years ago. While it doesn't get a lot of use these days, it still runs like the day I bought it. And it has seen it's share of use with abrasive blades for concrete and steel. My son, an ironworker, has a couple of Metabo angle grinders from work that look like they have been severely abused and tossed in the scrap pile, but still work fine.

[Frank Pratt]

A few years ago a youtuber by the name of AvE did a tear down of the TS55. You can watch it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oezp-_DcUgg

It wasn't a very flattering review for the Festool and it got the fanboyz in a right uproar over it. But the guy has got a lot of knowledge & creates some very informative content. He's got a potty mouth though, so NSFW.

[Mike Cutler]

A category they still tend to win even when their tools, like their routers, fall further back in the pack during bake-offs.

Glenn
I wouldn't call myself a "Green Koolaid Fanboy" by any stretch. I can also let folks know of the limitations of the Festool products I own. For instance, I think their guide rails are woefully overpriced for what the buyer get, as well as not made particurally well. I own two guide rails, and I'm sorry, but for that kind of money, those ends/edges should line up a perfect 90 degrees, and self align. I've thought about sending mine to a machine shop to get those ends "tuned up".

The routers though, that's a different story. If there is another router out there on par with the OF2200, I'd like to know which one it is?? Take away all of the system integration features from the OF2200, and it's still the nicest router I've ever used. I have an OF1400 also, but that OF2200 is just a whole different level.

Oh yeah, I think the Festool blades are mediocre at best as supplied new. I sent mine out to be sharpened when they were basically brand new. They're not a $100+ blade as supplied new. I like my TS75, but the blades for it are, as I stated, overpriced.

[Patrick Kane]

I have a TS75 that has been a fantastic tool for me. Made my life much much easier back in the day when i was self-funding my shop with commissions. Cutting table tops and islands to final length with a track saw was such a game-changer to me many years ago. This thing is in the systainer style prior to the T-loc, so im guessing its ATLEAST 10 years old at this point. Ive had it for maybe 6ish years. It fell off a sawhorse once and a mysterious spring popped out of the tool. I have absolutely no idea where that spring came from, but the tool operates flawlessly today. I dont use it as much now that i have a Felder slider, but its still a very nice tool to own. I think the kapex sucks--owned one for a hot minute--but the TS75 isnt that underpowered. It's a 10lb saw or whatever, you cant rip through 2.5" thick hardwood with reckless abandon. It will make that cut, but at an appropriate feed rate. Say what you will about the TS55, but the 75 does not have competitors. Over the years of ownership, ive used the 75 to full capacity many times.

Mike is correct, the 2200 is in a price range and class of its own. Ive never used another router as intelligently designed as the 2200. Expensive, but a pleasure to use.

Sanders and DF700 are all excellent.

The CT26 never impressed me as a general shopvac. It has half the oomph as my shop vac brand, but its a quality machine. Connected to their tools, it gets the job done well. Vaccing the floor is another story, it sucks there. Filter assembly and all the interior gaskets are quality.

[Randy Heinemann]

Just reviewed this thread today. The TS 55 was one of my best purchases ever; accurate, great dust collection, and when used with my MFT allows me to make the squarest crosscuts of any tool I’ve used.

I have never found it under powered but I suppose that depends on what it’s used for.

I have never regretted the money I spent on it and, I believe, if it died today, I’d probably buy another one. Part of it is that I have invested quite a bit in Festool with the MFT, track, etc. but I still think it’s a great saw and, despite this thread, I rarely see negative posts. Given the large number of saws probably out there at this point a few failures are likely; maybe more than few.

[Will Blick]

I feel your pain Dave...
I too have had Festool failures... it hurs, u expect better, understood.
I own waaaay too many Festool tools..
Some great input on these posts. I agree, Festool falls between Big Box and true industrial use tools. So you can get some lemons. I also agree with being underpowered (mostly) and the plastic can easily crack on the housing.
I have had batter chargers fail on new tools within a month or two. Again, that frustrates me. Had a TS75 fail with very lite use. All my tools get lite use, so like u, I expect Festool to last. Bosch makes incredible tools, at a fraction of the price. I have lots of DW too. If they fail, I am OK with it, due to price, but yet, they are incredibly reliable. Go figure.
Festool designs tools with dust collection as a primary focus, and I am big on dust collection, which is prob. why I will prob. still own many of their tools.

I still have the Festool track system... mainly because, I love the TS55 Battery version... why? no cord, and NO vac hose... the damn vac bag works incredibly well. The cords and vac hoses are the biggest nuissance IMO with track saws. Solving those two issues, well, its a great product. But as mentioned by other posters, it will struggle trying to cut 2" HARD woods. I would not call it underpowered, but certainly not over powered. Festool claims it can cut 100yds of 3/4" ply on a single charge. I never cut that much, so not sure, but even if it did half of this, its good enough for 99% of the market, as charging time is only 30min.

Not trying to talk u into another Festool, just sharing why I still use their system. IF you only breakdown handful of sheets every few months, Makita, DW, Bosch all will suffice. Maybe even Kreg? BTW, u can always sell off Festool rails and accessories, they sell pretty well.

I also think Festool should offer a pro rated repair cost schedule over time to THE ORIGINAL registered owner. IMO, that would help justify their prices and give piece of mind to users.
Also, lots of small design issues with many of their tools, they are not perfect by any stretch. But tools like the Domino, they have a monopoly, and its a unique tool. But I marvel how practical useful a simple Dowelmax is...there is nothing a Domino can do, which the DowelMax can not do as well. Granted, maybe not as fast, but you have tight joints, vs. loose fit tenons.

So glad this forum as freedom of speech ;)
On the FOG, we would all have a black eye ;)

[andy bessette]

Years ago I bought a used TS55 track saw, with Systainer and 55" track, for $350. It revolutionized the way I break down plywood and other sheet goods. When I added the 110" track it revolutionized the way I straighten the edge of rough lumber. It has become an invaluable tool in my shop. And my only regret is that I didn't buy one at full retail price when I first became aware of them.

Recently I used it to rip 8/4 mahogany and some of the magic smoke leaked out. I will happily repair or replace it with another Festool, not because I drank any green Koolaid, but because it has proven to be one of the most valuable tools in my shop.

[Will Blick]

Andy, great point, forgot to comment on this as well...
I have the 10ft rail too, and that is a life saver... its better than a jointer for long peices!!
I hate joining rails together, if u want consistent straight long edge. Yes, that rail is costly, but it earns its wings. Not sure the length of rails of the other makers. Something to consider.