Osage Orange Wood - Good stuff?

[Patrick Irish]

My sister is having her Osage cut down, bout 30ft tall, 4ft at the base. I'm having a few logs set aside. I wanted more and called a guy who quoted my $500 to slab them. Problem is it's in the backyard so he'd have to use a chainsaw mill and not w Woodmizer band saw setup.

Then I looked into kiln drying and that was $4 a board foot. So easily $1,000+

Think they're gonna leave me couple 6ft pieces but that about it.

Anyone work with Osage wood? Wish I had the time and space to keep it all.

[Patrick Kane]

$4 a bft to dry it!?!? Assuming you have a fair amount, you should be closer to $0.50 a bdft to kiln dry it. A few things, one, ive only worked with Osage in shorter lengths. I think its one of those woods, like sycamore, that are difficult to dry and they are more prone to warp. It is an unusual wood to see in board form, which i think is a product of the latter. Can you set aside an area to sticker them and air dry the boards? Its slower, but its also free. If you want to use the rest of the wood, i would see if you have a turner's club locally that want green bowl blanks. I think it is more popular as turning blanks than it is in furniture making. The stuff is very hard and very dense. It's an unusual yellow shade too. I mostly know it for its density and hardness. I think its one of the hardest north american domestics.

[Richard Coers]

By logs, I assume you mean some branches too? Here are the negatives; Osage can have a serious ring shake issue on the interior and many cracks radiating from the center. Yard trees have a very good chance of having metal inside of it. Everything from lag bolts to eye bolts. Lumber from branches is called reaction wood. It's caused by irregular stresses from the way a branch grows. There are more cells on the bottom of the branch than the top, and it warps and is loaded with internal stresses. I sure wouldn't make any deals to spend $1,000 on this until it's dropped and you see you bad it looks inside. As far as workability, it can be very brittle and chip easily going through a thickness planer. It is nearly unmatched for density and hardness. The color fades pretty quickly with direct sunlight exposure. Unparalleled for rot resistance. It burns almost as hot as coal, so would be really good for firewood. Except for the extreme sparking that can occur from the bark!

[Mike Kees]

I have a friend who builds longbows that uses osage for limb laminations.

[Andrew Hughes]

I’ve found Osage Orange to be very challenging. It has soft layers between hard layers of grain.
The wood I used for these canes was pretty stable and I liked that. I also like to use hand tools whenever possible reading the grain was pretty tricky. So not much with that.
Here’s the canes made.

[Mel Fulks]

The Indians used Osage for bows, but without lamination. The guys of today who make the old type adhere to old
way throughout .

[Mel Fulks]

Andrew, those canes are so handsome that anyone accosting an owner would be proud to be beaten senseless with either.
It doesn't get any better than that !

[Richard Coers]

The Indians used Osage for bows, but without lamination. The guys of today who make the old type adhere to old
way throughout .
That's a common statement, but in actuality, Osage Orange had a very narrow native range until Europeans came to American and planted huge numbers of trees as a hedge row to contain animals before barbed wire became common. So technically you are correct, but it was a very small percent of Native Americans that had access to it.
https://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/misc/ag_654/volume_2/maclura/pomifera.htm
https://mdc.mo.gov/conmag/1995/11/enduring-osage-orange

[Jeff Bartley]

Patrick,
Yes, it's a little difficult to work but I love it. I would definitely have it cut. Air dried it'll be relatively inexpensive.
If you decide to pass on it and you're anywhere close to VA let me know! I'd be happy to take that log off your hands.
I made all the bench dogs for my bench from Osage.
We will need pics!

[Mel Fulks]

Thanks Richard. Just read it. Only found one error. That's the part that said it was used for barriers until barbed wire .
Actually it is still used ,and at least into 1960's US government sold a pamphlet detailing how to make an Osage barrier.

[Jeff Bartley]

Patrick,
I tried to send you a message, if you do mill the Osage and would be interested in trading for some Pecan, let me know!
Jeff

[Patrick Irish]

Well sorry guys. Sister was too impatient and I didn't have time to get a mill guy called. I got about a 6ft by 20" log set aside.

Here are a bunch of cut offs FREE if anyone is in the bay area. They're coming tomorrow to throw it in the chipper.

https://images.craigslist.org/00O0O_cwr6yP3gn6q_600x450.jpg

[Jeff Bartley]

That's a cryin shame! Chipper? At least put it in a stove.

[Doug Dawson]

Andrew, those canes are so handsome that anyone accosting an owner would be proud to be beaten senseless with either.
It doesn't get any better than that !

Now that's the kind of elder abuse I like! :^)

[Darcy Warner]

I like turning it. Makes good outside wood.

[roger wiegand]

Nice wood for turning, offer it to the local turners group is nothing else.

[Jim Andrew]

I sawed some for a friend, it had green spots and dry spots. When I hit the dry spots, the mill about died. The blade would just stop cutting. Finally got through it, but was nasty. If it is green it saws fine, but seems like big pieces have spots of dry along with green.

[Malcolm McLeod]

It makes great fence posts too. Only down side is you have to move the post every 20yrs or so - - as the ground around it rots. (The post won't :cool:)

Jesting aside, my grandparent's house sat on blocks of it for ages with bottom ends just sitting on the dirt.

I have played with small pieces, and can second the quick fade of the yellow (to medium brown).

[mark kosse]

Bodark...Bois D'Ark which means wood of the bow.

[Matt Lau]

It makes really great guitars! Structurally, it's an excellent replacement for Brazilian rosewood.

Got any left? I'm in Alameda.

[Matthew Hills]

I was excited to get a chunk to use in making a Krenov-style plane. Then I discovered how difficult the grain is to work with—easy to get tear-out in ribbons.

But all wood is interesting to have around. I would keep pretty thick and let air dry

Matt

[keith micinski]

No one is going to mention the hideous hedge apples, that are easily the biggest natural nuisance known to man kind? Thank your sister for me for cutting that blight on humanity down. Death to the hedge apple tree as they are known here.

[Rege Sullivan]

It has limited uses for sure but is my favorite for wooded kitchen utensils, shop made latches and handles. Also makes a great foot for outdoor deck furniture. I've just paid $12/BF for osage orange in SW PA. It's hard to find here.

[Patrick Irish]

So the log is bigger than I thought hahaha!

24"x65"

Anyone know of someone that can mill it in the bay area Norcal?

https://i.ibb.co/JrcGW4s/log.png

[Patrick Irish]

https://i.ibb.co/1LHrD9v/log-end.jpg (https://ibb.co/qdbNtRy) temporary image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)

[Mel Fulks]

No one is going to mention the hideous hedge apples, that are easily the biggest natural nuisance known to man kind? Thank your sister for me for cutting that blight on humanity down. Death to the hedge apple tree as they are known here.
But only the female plants produce fruit. I'm guessing one can find pics and tips for learning to differentiate. I've always
wanted to see a line of them grown as a barrier. I have a book by a local author that gives the locations
of two old lines, but have not yet made the trip.

[Erik Loza]

No one is going to mention the hideous hedge apples, that are easily the biggest natural nuisance known to man kind? Thank your sister for me for cutting that blight on humanity down. Death to the hedge apple tree as they are known here.

LOL. I volunteer at the local wildflower preserve and there are a couple of Bow Darks on the property. We get volunteers who haven't spent much time outdoors and it's our little game to try and make them believe they are mutated vegetables, tropical fruit left by pickncikers, Body Snatchers pods, etc.

Erik

[Richard Coers]

But only the female plants produce fruit. I'm guessing one can find pics and tips for learning to differentiate. I've always
wanted to see a line of them grown as a barrier. I have a book by a local author that gives the locations
of two old lines, but have not yet made the trip.
My Dad planted a line on the first rental farm he had in 1943, near Emden, IL. He told me his idea was to grow his own fence posts. By the time he could get fence posts, he was long gone from that place and steel fence post were cheap. Also a lot easier to get in the ground! We had another line of hedge bulldozed from another rental farm. That pile made one hell of a fire, and it was the last of the flat tires on the tractors in that field. There are a couple of hedge rows near my in the city of Peoria, IL. Still there from when that area was farm ground. I'd wager they make horrible yard trees!

[Roger Feeley]

I grew up in Kansas and knew a lot of farmers.
— they hate cutting the stuff. It dulls chainsaw blades. Could be hard on that chipper.
— be careful burning the stuff. They said it burns very hot. Try small pieces. It also pops a lot so be careful if you put it in a fireplace.
— ditto on The fenceposts. Great use for it
— we had a small hand powered forge. My dad told me that the blower handle should be Osage orange for strength.

[Joe Rogers]

Osage makes great wooden mallets...Wish I was close enough to get some of the chunks...
Joe

[Scott T Smith]

https://i.ibb.co/1LHrD9v/log-end.jpg (https://ibb.co/qdbNtRy) temporary image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)

Patrick, unfortunately that log is full of tension wood. You can tell this by the extremely off-centered pith. It is not worth milling into lumber IMO, because 80% or more of it will distort significantly.

[Mark Gibney]

Scott, if the log is milled at say 8/4, and dried, once the dry but distorted rough boards are milled will they eventually be stable?

[steve johnson]

Osage when cut starts out a beautiful bright yellow that ages nicely to a dark amber. Google chatoyance.

[Scott T Smith]

Scott, if the log is milled at say 8/4, and dried, once the dry but distorted rough boards are milled will they eventually be stable?

Typically, with as much tension as is evidenced in that highly off-center pith, unless you are using very short boards (jewelry box range) they tend to move every time they are worked.

I’ve typically only seen piths that far off center on limb wood. Usually there is such a high discard rate when the dried lumber is machined (uup to 80% discard range) that it’s just not financially viable to mill the logs.

We milled one years ago from a massive heirloom tree that grew on a family’s homestead. The trunk was hollow, so the only thing solid was the limb wood (3’ diameter limbs). Even when cut down into 3’ - 4’ lengths, over 2/3 of the total yield was not usable.

[Tom Trees]

I'd split that if it were me, and radially cut it quartersawn afterwards on the bandsaw before it gets harder.
Seal it as soon as you can.
That would be a bit much for a 14" bandsaw though, and worthy of a machine that can handle at least a 3/4" blade (which is properly tensioned)
Might as well go all out and try your hand at some backs and sides, and other bits for acoustic guitars if you end up buying a suitable machine.
That "zoot" or "tonewood" you got is sought after by the luthier community, look on LMI (luthiers mercantile international) to see what those prices are!
Edit: they don't stock any backs and sides anymore.

Lotta work if you don't plan on building an instrument or making thick veneers, but that's what I would do.
It would be a lot more stable if it were not cut the easy or lazy way as some luthiers might think.

Have you got any more bits that might give a hint if the boule you have is figured?

As an aside there is more ways or procuring stock than the Alaskan chainsaw mill, and the Woodmizer type.
Have you seen the Lucas mill?

Tom

[Bill Jobe]

A few years ago another guy and myself downed half of a double-trunked, live OO.
I sealed it as each cut was made and still have the majority of it.
But what I think is unusual is that when I got home with the wood I decided I wanted about a 3" thick slab, fairly close to the larger end.
Then I did what I had just heard about at that time..... microwave drying.
The slab fit perfectly. I had to run several 2-3-4 minute cycles until I thought it was dry.
I was just guessing.

Here it is today. The cracks have hardly moved. I had finished it with oil varnish.
I can still see that brilliant yellow sawdust in my mind. As you can see, that didn't last long.
I love OO and I think I might experiment with Epiphanes

[Bill Jobe]

Well sorry guys. Sister was too impatient and I didn't have time to get a mill guy called. I got about a 6ft by 20" log set aside.

Here are a bunch of cut offs FREE if anyone is in the bay area. They're coming tomorrow to throw it in the chipper.

https://images.craigslist.org/00O0O_cwr6yP3gn6q_600x450.jpg

No,no !!!
Why not contact a wood turner's club near you. They'd cry if they knew that gorgeous pile of OO would be burned. That's a lot of potentially beautiful pieces.

What Bay area? Is it near Northwest Illinois?:)

[Bill Jobe]

Well sorry guys. Sister was too impatient and I didn't have time to get a mill guy called. I got about a 6ft by 20" log set aside.

Here are a bunch of cut offs FREE if anyone is in the bay area. They're coming tomorrow to throw it in the chipper.

https://images.craigslist.org/00O0O_cwr6yP3gn6q_600x450.jpg

No,no !!!
Why not contact a wood turner's club near you. They'd cry if they knew that gorgeous pile of OO would be burned. That's a lot of potentially beautiful pieces.

What Bay area? Is it near Northwest Illinois?:)

The pic I posted above is much darker brown than in the photo. 4 tungsten lights hang above the table I shot it on, even though I used flash.

[John K Jordan]

https://i.ibb.co/1LHrD9v/log-end.jpg (https://ibb.co/qdbNtRy) temporary image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)

That log is perfect for woodturning. Some turn it wet, I turn dry. When I get green osage I cut it into a variety of turning blanks and let it air dry. If you decide not to mill it maybe contact a turning club.

BTW, I also saw osage into sticks for outdoor use. It makes great garden stakes and fence tensioners.

JKJ

[Erik Loza]

Bump: We were out for a post-lunch walk and ran across one of these trees and the wacky fruits.

Erik

422168422169

[keith micinski]

It should be illegal to call those fruits.

[Jim Becker]

It should be illegal to call those fruits.

They are apparently very good to discourage spiders for folks who don't prefer arachnids in their personal spaces... :D

[Michael A. Tyree]

By logs, I assume you mean some branches too? Here are the negatives; Osage can have a serious ring shake issue on the interior and many cracks radiating from the center. Yard trees have a very good chance of having metal inside of it. Everything from lag bolts to eye bolts. Lumber from branches is called reaction wood. It's caused by irregular stresses from the way a branch grows. There are more cells on the bottom of the branch than the top, and it warps and is loaded with internal stresses. I sure wouldn't make any deals to spend $1,000 on this until it's dropped and you see you bad it looks inside. As far as workability, it can be very brittle and chip easily going through a thickness planer. It is nearly unmatched for density and hardness. The color fades pretty quickly with direct sunlight exposure. Unparalleled for rot resistance. It burns almost as hot as coal, so would be really good for firewood. Except for the extreme sparking that can occur from the bark!


I disagree with at least one of your statements above. Colorwise, exposure to light/UV darkens Osage Orange, not lighten, as does air exposure, albeit slower if already finished. I've made pieces over a long period dating back to when I left my native KS in 1973(and before) where the tree is common in hedgerows. Many have now been removed as no-till fields came into farming. It's like cherry, it will darken whether you want it to, or not. I have lots of family who happen to live in Osage County, KS and near the Osage river. The Indian's use of the wood, and the tribal name too carry over into geography and such.
As for pockets of soft wood-lots of luck on that one too! HA! It does have grain reversals, mostly small and thus can chip on some spots ( not much more than highly figured Maple except it's much harder-see the scale-it's the hardest NA species) planing, but if you like your planer and it's blades, tiny bites are the only way to do that job.
It has light refraction potential, same as seen in a man's tiger eye cabachon stone. I built an Applachian rocking chair for one of our son's this Christmas from Osage Orange. It has 47" rear posts and a hickory bark bottom with 4 back slats. I normally build a rung style frame using bark fill for my chair backs but in wanting to show off the wood I used 3/8" x 4" boiled & bent slats on this one.
I very slightly lost a bit of color with boiling the slats as the pigment is water soluble but still easily matched the chair. My homes kitchen island built ~ 3 years ago has three stools built from Osage and they have been dark for over a year and will get twice as dark still yet. I like working with osage but my stash is getting smaller and few logs to be had even though I do have a sawmill.
My wood came from Perry County, KS area near Lake Perry there, the sawyer is long gone now as he was old back when. He sawed barn patterns, etc., and had much Osage on hand as he specialized in livestock trailer floors, said he'd never seen one need replaced. It is the old time fence post wood of choice in KS and much of fly over land before steel & treated came in. One of my LR table lamps is made from a large corner post of fence wood.
It will air dry if your patient. I have never bandsawed the wood on my Woodmizer but shouyld cut similar to hickory.
OP-where are you located?
I spotted some huge Osage trees over in the Lexington, KY area on farm edges and intend to ask about them. it looks similar to some locust trees bark wise until you look harder. often a decent trunk has twisted growth. Beware of seriously sharp thorns too!

[Eric Anderson]

I grew up in the town of Bois D'Arc MO. Had acres of hedge on the farm. Had fence posts in the ground for nearly 100 years and still solid as the day they were installed. Never tried to do any woodworking with the wood though and now live in Texas so not much supply here.

[Richard Coers]

I disagree with at least one of your statements above. Colorwise, exposure to light/UV darkens Osage Orange, not lighten, as does air exposure, albeit slower if already finished. I've made pieces over a long period dating back to when I left my native KS in 1973(and before) where the tree is common in hedgerows. Many have now been removed as no-till fields came into farming. It's like cherry, it will darken whether you want it to, or not. I have lots of family who happen to live in Osage County, KS and near the Osage river. The Indian's use of the wood, and the tribal name too carry over into geography and such.


I didn't say it lightens, I said it fades. By that I meant the yellow disappears.

[Michael A. Tyree]

Richard, no arguments wanted but the fact is it gets many times darker than it once was when green and yellow and to my brain that doesn't mean getting "lighter" given it's a dark brown when it's all over and done from UV & air exposure. You use a different dictionary than do I...
Air dried outside the boards turn nearly black on the surface and twist and turn a good bit. It's a beautiful wood that doesn't always co-operate with my notion of easy does it.
As to KS farmers saying it dulls a chainsaw, I once was one those people and I find it not much different than hickory, etc., as long as the wood is clean it cuts OK, chainsaw, table saw, etc.. I would not however get real excited about working it by hand.