Axiom style machines

[Greg Parrish]

Are there any machines similar in quality to an Axiom that I could get started using for $5k or less that would include a 3hp water coooled spindle (or upgrade path to one), a 2x4 bed and rolling stand? I found a used, but like new, powermatic 2x4 for that price but I’m not finding much support for the powermatics.

Im trying to get started without going the Shapeoko or other smaller kit route even though it’s just for hobby use now. Thx.

[bobby milam]

Have you considered going the Chinese route? I bought from Acctel USA out of Chicago and got a 4X8 with 3 Kw spindle for $6200. I know they will order smaller sized machines in but not sure of what the prices are but if I were to guess, I'd think closer to $3,000 for that sized machine. They do give support thru China but there is the time difference which causes an issue. I just changed over to Centroid Acorn and get support thru their forums. I've had mine about a year and have been very happy with it. At this point, if I were to buy another, I think I would go the same route.

FYI for the $6200, that was the cost out the door after they received the machine and tested it for any issues for several days before selling it.

[Greg Parrish]

I havent but but mostly because I don’t know enough about CNC yet to comfortably step outside the “kit” mindset approach. Also, I’m looking for something smaller to fit my space and budget which limits the pack.



Have you considered going the Chinese route? I bought from Acctel USA out of Chicago and got a 4X8 with 3 Kw spindle for $6200. I know they will order smaller sized machines in but not sure of what the prices are but if I were to guess, I'd think closer to $3,000 for that sized machine. They do give support thru China but there is the time difference which causes an issue. I just changed over to Centroid Acorn and get support thru their forums. I've had mine about a year and have been very happy with it. At this point, if I were to buy another, I think I would go the same route.

FYI for the $6200, that was the cost out the door after they received the machine and tested it for any issues for several days before selling it.

[bobby milam]

Go look at the Camaster forum and watch for used Stinger 1 in that size. I bet you could find it used for that price. Granted it might not have a spindle but many use the routers on that size. The camaster is built like a tank and they probably have three best customer support going along with their forum. I've never heard of anyone that bought one that was disappointed other than they wish they had bought a larger machine

[Greg Parrish]

Also found a brand called I2R that makes one of the entry Axiom machines and it uses UCCNC control rather than DSP, but it only offers a 1HP air cooled spindle. Looks nice from what I’m reading though.

I looked at the Camaster forum and most used ones are way out of my budget and too far away. Thanks for the tip though.

[Jerome Stanek]

Go look at the Camaster forum and watch for used Stinger 1 in that size. I bet you could find it used for that price. Granted it might not have a spindle but many use the routers on that size. The camaster is built like a tank and they probably have three best customer support going along with their forum. I've never heard of anyone that bought one that was disappointed other than they wish they had bought a larger machine

The Camaster people are like Festool people they think used should sell for 80 plus % of new

[Tom Kiblin]

Check out the https://www.omiocnc.com/ folks, they are from China and I found out about them from Reddit. I was looking at the I2R as well, but this now has my interest. My only concern is the Mach 3 software/controller, from what I have been reading online it is rather old and the new Mach 4 software is so much better.

[Tom Kiblin]

Have a link for Acctel? Not finding anything on Google for them CNC related, just IT related.


Have you considered going the Chinese route? I bought from Acctel USA out of Chicago and got a 4X8 with 3 Kw spindle for $6200. I know they will order smaller sized machines in but not sure of what the prices are but if I were to guess, I'd think closer to $3,000 for that sized machine. They do give support thru China but there is the time difference which causes an issue. I just changed over to Centroid Acorn and get support thru their forums. I've had mine about a year and have been very happy with it. At this point, if I were to buy another, I think I would go the same route.

FYI for the $6200, that was the cost out the door after they received the machine and tested it for any issues for several days before selling it.

[Gary Campbell]

The Camaster people are like Festool people they think used should sell for 80 plus % of new

Jerry is right on the money here. Many non-commercial users believe in the kind of numbers that he states. Truth is, even if listed for those kinds of percentages, used machines without a warrantee seldom bring 50% of their selling price. There are exceptions for late model higher end commercial type machines, but for the most part there are some real bargains out there. I just spoke with a purchaser of a used 4 by 8 SB alpha
who is looking for an Acorn control upgrade, that got it for less than 3 grand. Keep your eyes open!

[Greg Parrish]

Me neither. Im thinking maybe he might have meant Acctek. http://www.acctekcnc.com/html/products/router/


Have a link for Acctel? Not finding anything on Google for them CNC related, just IT related.

[Greg Parrish]

If my math is right the largest they have is only a 20”x31” with 3” z-axis. Also only a 2.2HP spindle. But the thing that turns me off most on the direct from China models is that I don’t really understand the specs enough and the machines enough to get comfortable with what I’m buying......... especially when I have to convert everything in my head to compare the machines. I realize many of the US machines are imported but at least they have put the specs into a presentation I can better comprehend. LOL.

Im still struggling with metric I guess.




Check out the https://www.omiocnc.com/ folks, they are from China and I found out about them from Reddit. I was looking at the I2R as well, but this now has my interest. My only concern is the Mach 3 software/controller, from what I have been reading online it is rather old and the new Mach 4 software is so much better.

[Greg Parrish]

Anyone ever tried or heard anything about the Grizzly CNC?
https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-24-x-36-CNC-Router/G0894

[Gary Campbell]

Greg...
I would suggest that if you decide to go the Chinese route that you purchase from a US reseller rather than direct. Of course they have a bit higher price, but it beats payment in full a couple months in advance and finding out that import taxes and shipping may, in the end cost more than the reseller charges. Most of these guys import in quantity, and have all costs listed in the published prices.

[Jim Becker]

Are there any machines similar in quality to an Axiom that I could get started using for $5k or less that would include a 3hp water coooled spindle (or upgrade path to one), a 2x4 bed and rolling stand? I found a used, but like new, powermatic 2x4 for that price but I’m not finding much support for the powermatics.


The Axiom and Powermatic are pretty much the same machine with different paint and a few little odds and ends. When I was starting to shop for a CNC and after I, like you, decided that I didn't really want to go the Shapeoko or similar route, I first looked at the Axiom. It was nice and had some compelling features, but the more I learned about control systems, the more I looked around for alternative machines. I did end up with one of the yellow machines built in Cartersville GA. Yes, they sell for higher prices used, but they also still sell quickly at those prices for whatever reason. I suspect, but do not know for sure, that other USA manufacturer machines like ShopSabre have a similar track record on resale. These manufacturers tend to put the same robustness into their small machines as they do for their larger ones because a lot of the small machines still see "professional" use. No matter...you have plenty of options. I suspect there will be another Stinger I coming up for sale used on Camheads based on a recent thread asking about how to price.

My suggestion as to what to look for is beefy construction, even if it's a put-together like CNC Router Parts. The nature of the motion with a CNC benefits from construction that doesn't flex easily. The control software is also good to consider because having a robust ecosystem of support can be helpful over time. WinCNC, Mach4, Acorn, etc... Clearly, you like quality tools, so in the long run, you'll probably be happier taking that route with the CNC, too.

[bobby milam]

https://acctekusa.com same manufacturer but they are the U.S. importer. I never even used their mach 3. I removed it right away and put in Acorn.

[Greg Parrish]

These folks possibly make the Grizzly model I linked above as it looks very similar to this one.
http://acctekcnc.com/html/products/router/Mini_CNC_Router/2006/0217/44.html
https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-24-x-36-CNC-Router/G0894



https://acctekusa.com same manufacturer but they are the U.S. importer. I never even used their mach 3. I removed it right away and put in Acorn.

[Gerry Kaslowski]

Anyone ever tried or heard anything about the Grizzly CNC?
https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-24-x-36-CNC-Router/G0894

They now get a 1-2 star rating on ResellerRatings.com. Terrible reviews and customer service. I could not find one review of this CNC! I would stay far, far away.

[Greg Parrish]

Yeah, I think overall grizzly is ok as long as you don’t expect Martin level quality for what you pay. This CNC looks to be the same as one of the Acctek Chinese models I think. But it looks like it’s new and I sure don’t want to be the ginnea pig for a tool category I don’t yet understand. I think the Axiom, Laguna and Powermatic units are also about the same from what I can see.

I found a used like new Powermatic 2x4 model for $5,500 firm including computer and Vectric software (not sure which version) but that price seems too high to me for a machine without warranty compared to what I could get a similar machine for new in a different color. The Laguna IQ and Powermatic seem over priced compared to their direct competitors.

Still trying to to decide what I should do.



They now get a 1-2 star rating on ResellerRatings.com. Terrible reviews and customer service. I could not find one review of this CNC! I would stay far, far away.

[Jim Becker]

These folks possibly make the Grizzly model I linked above as it looks very similar to this one.
http://acctekcnc.com/html/products/router/Mini_CNC_Router/2006/0217/44.html
https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-24-x-36-CNC-Router/G0894

ER20 collets on a 3hp spindle? That doesn't seem right. My 1.7kw spindle (2.28hp) uses the larger ER25.

[bobby milam]

If you look at these rebranded Chinese machines, I think they are all over priced. The best deals when I looked were importers of Chinese machines that didn't try to disguise them as a rebranded machine. You are paying for the stickers to be added on. When i was looking i found 3 companies that imported them and had a reasonable markup. One s who i mentioned where i bought mine. there was another in Chicago and one in California. Have you been watching craigslist? You find some used ones at a decent price occasionally.

It will take a little more research off calling to get info because when they don't have the big markup they usually rely on the Chinese company's literature online which can be limited because most of these companies have many different machines that are made in various sizes. If a budget is limited then your best bet will be making the calls and speaking to a person.

One of the biggest issues you have right now is the added cost of the tariffs on China. If a deal is important to you wait till the trade wars settle down.

[bobby milam]

ER20 collets on a 3hp spindle? That doesn't seem right. My 1.7kw spindle (2.28hp) uses the larger ER25.

On a Chinese machine ER20 can be normal. My machine came with a 3kw spindle and ER20 collets which i had no issues with. I just replace it with another 3kw ATC spindle and that one uses ER25.

[David Buchhauser]

ER20 collets on a 3hp spindle? That doesn't seem right. My 1.7kw spindle (2.28hp) uses the larger ER25.

I have one 3hp spindle with ER20, and another with ER25. From what I have seen, the ER20 usually come with the air cooled spindles and the ER25 with the water cooled ATC spindles.
David

[Jim Becker]

My 1.7 kw HSD spindle is air cooled. I see that the 3 kw (4.4hp) HSD spindle also appears to use the ER25. (also air cooled) No matter...I was just surprised at the specification with my limited knowledge of many of the machines out there.

[Mike DeRegnaucourt]

I found a used, but like new, powermatic 2x4 for that price but I’m not finding much support for the powermatics.

The Powermatic is essentially a rebranded Axiom. I believe Axiom actually supplies them for Powermatic.

[Greg Parrish]

So I’ve been looking at control software like the UCCNC type products and the direct PC control seems nice. That said how does the Richauto B11 DSP approach really compare? The laguna, powermatic and axiom machines all seem to use this approach. If I’m understanding you basically just miss out on the real time tool path modeling and spindle speed control or something?

the used powermatic 2x4 seems like a nice machine if I can get it for the right price. Just wondering if I’ll really despise the control approach. Also if I did how hard would it be to convert to acorn or similar down the road?

can you tell I’m new to this? LOL

[Gary Campbell]

Greg...
I cant even guess what your talent skillset level is, but I do a RichAuto to Acorn conversion for $1200. Since this conversion includes a Lenovo CNC-PC, Acorn system & pro license, you can se there isn't lot left for the actual install $$. A number of others have made the
DIY conversion themselves. YMMV

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Gary. So serious question, what is the benefit over the rich auto approach for a newbie looking at a first CNC?



Greg...
I cant even guess what your talent skillset level is, but I do a RichAuto to Acorn conversion for $1200. Since this conversion includes a Lenovo CNC-PC, Acorn system & pro license, you can se there isn't lot left for the actual install $$. A number of others have made the
DIY
conversion themselves. YMMV

[Gary Campbell]

Greg...
The RichAuto systems have all the basic features. The PC controllers will have, depending on the brand, numerous other features, the least of which is a full screen display of system function and position. Spindle speed, feedrate control, on the fly adjustments, and dozens, if not hundreds more. Some feel that just being able to choose Imperial units (inches) is enough for them

An analogy would be a 15 year old car AMFM radio and todays infotainment centers. If all you wish to do is listen to talk radio, todays versions do little for you. But, if you wish to add feature and function and a lot more control over how the machine works for you, the one of the PC based controllers will be an option you would look into.

Another feature is "out of the box" support. OEM's will only support the options and settings they choose. There are lots of ingenious tinkerers using Acorn and if you want to add accessories or customize a macro, the user base is there to help you.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Gary. I appreciate the feedback.

Just need to decide which direction I want to go. It’s nice to know I can upgrade the rich auto setup though if I ended up going that route initially.




Greg...
The RichAuto systems have all the basic features. The PC controllers will have, depending on the brand, numerous other features, the least of which is a full screen display of system function and position. Spindle speed, feedrate control, on the fly adjustments, and dozens, if not hundreds more. Some feel that just being able to choose Imperial units (inches) is enough for them

An analogy would be a 15 year old car AMFM radio and todays infotainment centers. If all you wish to do is listen to talk radio, todays versions do little for you. But, if you wish to add feature and function and a lot more control over how the machine works for you, the one of the PC based controllers will be an option you would look into.

Another feature is "out of the box" support. OEM's will only support the options and settings they choose. There are lots of ingenious tinkerers using Acorn and if you want to add accessories or customize a macro, the user base is there to help you.

[Jim Becker]

Gary's comment about having a robust display is one of the things that I really like about my CNC setup. Everything I need to know about the job and relevant settings is right there in a single window with certain controls (feeds/speeds) being able to be adjusted in real time with the rodent. It's been surprising at how many times that's been very useful to fine tune performance while cutting something. Often, my ears tell me that an adjustment is necessary. So that's my way of saying that I'm happy that you are open to potentially making a change to a more robust control system at the right time for you if you start out with a more basic controller. Ultimately, I believe you'll benefit from that.

[Greg Parrish]

I think I’ve officially decided to walk away from this topic for a little bit. LOL

the more I read, the more I find that I’m not going to be happy unless I get a certain level machine setup (I know, I know but that’s just how I am though). To get into a machine like I want, it’s going to take more money than I can throw at it this year. So, as much as I’m having trouble walking away from the used Powermatic that I found, my gut tells me to wait until I can get a new Stinger or similar setup (maybe next year).

I had so many new tool acquisitions and changes this year that I need to not only recover from them but also continue learning to use them before I step neck deep into learning CNC. That said, the info shared has been great and will help guide me over the coming months and year while I pin down my approach.

Thank you.

[Gary Campbell]

I cant find the thread, but a wise man (Keith Outten) once said: (paraphrasing here) "Don't buy the machine you can afford, find the one that fits your needs and save til you can afford that one"

If more folks followed that saying, the "buy your second machine first" saying would almost be irrelevant.

[Bruce Page]

Greg, a few years ago I was standing in your shoes, I understand your dilemma. I ultimately went with the Camaster Stinger. Aside from the original “sting”, I have no regrets. The WinCNC controller is great and the machine is rock solid.

Best of luck on whichever way you decide to go.

[Jim Becker]

I cant find the thread, but a wise man (Keith Outten) once said: (paraphrasing here) "Don't buy the machine you can afford, find the one that fits your needs and save til you can afford that one"

If more folks followed that saying, the "buy your second machine first" saying would almost be irrelevant.

Those are wise words, indeed.

[Greg Parrish]

Well, I spoke too soon. :)

worked out a deal to pick up the like new Powermatic 2x4 unit. It doesn’t come with design software but otherwise has everything needed to get me going off the bat. And, I can start out with the rich auto setup and always upgrade to acorn or similar later if I feel the need. This gets me something to start learning with that brings a heavier duty quality than the diy units and builds on the Axiom units for support if needed.

It may not be quite as nice as the Stinger units but it’s half the price of the similar Stinger 2x4 or Axiom 8. Includes a 3hp water cooled spindle and almost identical specs to the Axiom Pro 8. Just need to work out the logistics to go get it in coming week or two.

Anyone know if Fusion 360 or other free hobbiest software will work on the rich auto units to get me going until I can afford vcarve pro or something?


couple of pics of unit sitting in storage:
417173

417174

[Jim Becker]

Congrats! Welcome to yet another addiction! LOL

In the Fusion 360 help forums, they mention that there may be a Post Processor for Rich Auto, so go there, do the search and check it out and see if that's true.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Jim. Of course as soon as I make a deal on the Powermatic someone offers me an 2hp Axiom Pro 6 for similar price too. LOL. But think the 2x4 Powermatic is more bang for buck size wise since it has a 3hp spindle and 4’ capacity.

I did did find a link to this post processor link on PM site but wasn’t sure what it meant.
http://www.powermatic.com/us/en/service-and-support/products/software-hub/

looks like Ike I need to make vcarve Pro a priority.........




Congrats! Welcome to yet another addiction! LOL

In the Fusion 360 help forums, they mention that there may be a Post Processor for Rich Auto, so go there, do the search and check it out and see if that's true.

[Jim Becker]

Greg, the link you provided is for the post processor for Vectric software. That's not going to work with Fusion 360, but I suspect you already knew that. If you go to the Autodesk site and do a little searching, you may be able to ascertain if there's a PP there for the Rich Auto control software. What the post processor does is take your drawing information and tool paths and turn them into code that your controller software (in this case, Rich Auto) can understand and feed to the machine. It's kinda critical. ;) In the case of the Vectric software, Vectric requires the machine manufacturer to create and provide the post processor, but Vectric provides a very long list of Post Processors in their software that were in many cases, created by machine manufacturers. Rich Auto A11 is one of them. The version on the PowerMatic site may or may not be the same version or may be customized for their machine setup.

[bobby milam]

Congrats on the machine. I'd be shocked if thre wasn't a Rich Auto PP for you. Between the 2 I think you made the right choice. Rarely, if ever have I heard someone say that they wished that they had chosen a smaller table or a weaker spindle. Also, remember that you can buy a cheaper version of vectric software like desktop and when you want to upgrade to vcarve pro or Aspire they will only be basically charging you the difference between the versions. It's really nice how they have the pricing setup.

[David Buchhauser]

Here is a link to a Rich Auto pp.
https://cam.autodesk.com/hsmposts?p=richauto&_ga=2.59323245.1593693196.1570068047-1544991644.1564352720

[Greg Parrish]

Here is a link to a Rich Auto pp.
https://cam.autodesk.com/hsmposts?p=richauto&_ga=2.59323245.1593693196.1570068047-1544991644.1564352720

Thanks David. How did you find that as it doesn’t appear to actually exist when you search their website for it. Wondering the trick as it may help me find other related info. Thx. Greg

[David Buchhauser]

Thanks David. How did you find that as it doesn’t appear to actually exist when you search their website for it. Wondering the trick as it may help me find other related info. Thx. Greg
Hi Greg,
I did a Google search for "rich auto post processor Fusion 360".
David


417194

[Greg Parrish]

I’m just not sure if fusion 360 is really going to be a workable option as it doesn’t appear they have an actual supported post processor for the richauto B11 unit that is in the Powermatic. The one above is for the A11 unit and it disclaims,that it isn’t for distribution, so I’m not sure if it would work reliably.

So so I started looking at the Vectric software site and it doesn’t look like there is a Mac version of it. I don’t have windows running on our Mac so now I’m thinking it will mean needing to purchase a computer on top of the software.

Sheesh. There just isn’t an easy way to accomplish what I’m working towards when trying to keep the budget on the cheap. Right now I’m looking for the cheapest computer I can find that would meet the specs. I’m also wondering if a touchscreen or tablet style computer would offer any benefit for software like VCarve Pro.

[Gary Campbell]

Greg...
Not a fan of F360 (Vectric fanboy). That said both Laguna and AXIOM use the Richauto controller, both distribute F360 with their product according to their websites, so I am sure there are postP's for the controller

[Greg Parrish]

Gary, that will be awesome if it works out. My plan was to use the free fusion 360 product on my existing 27” iMac to get started and keep my initial cost down to the machine and bits. Then I can work in phases to migrate to Vcarve Pro as one step and potentially centroid acorn in another step. All said and done, if it works as planned I will be thousands less than the Stinger 2x4 route and will be able to spend in phases. May not be quite the same level machine but I’m thinking for a Chinese product the Axiom Pro 8 and Powermatic 2x4 seem like nice quality machines for a hobbiest. Especially when the used price is low enough to compete with that of a shark HD4.

Thanks for the continued feedback.




Greg...
Not a fan of F360 (Vectric fanboy). That said both Laguna and AXIOM use the Richauto controller, both distribute F360 with their product according to their websites, so I am sure there are postP's for the controller

[Jim Becker]

Also, remember that you can buy a cheaper version of vectric software like desktop and when you want to upgrade to vcarve pro or Aspire they will only be basically charging you the difference between the versions. It's really nice how they have the pricing setup.

He can't buy VCarve Desktop as it will not accommodate machines/projects larger than 24"x24" which means he'd only be able to use half his machine. There's no functional difference between Desktop and Pro...it's strictly about supported job size. They offer Desktop to better support the small, hobby machine market with a lower cost, but limit job size to insure that folks with bigger machines cannot "cheat".

It's true, however, that Vectric's upgrade/uplift policy is very fair. I took advantage of that last January when I moved from VCarve Pro to Aspire. It was strictly the difference in cost between them.

[Jim Becker]

So so I started looking at the Vectric software site and it doesn’t look like there is a Mac version of it. I don’t have windows running on our Mac so now I’m thinking it will mean needing to purchase a computer on top of the software..

Many of us use the Vectric software on our Mac computers...via virtualization. I personally use Parallels to support this. There have been rumors of a potential MacOS version and many of us have been lobbying for it, but at the present time, it doesn't exist. They do have their North American user conference coming up in about a week or so, so who knows? The only Windows machine I own is the one that came with my Camaster CNC to run the controller. I do all my drawing and tool path work on my Macbook Pro, although I do tweaks, etc., while running in the shop on the Windows machine.

[Greg Parrish]

What would i need to add it add it to my existing iMac? Honestly my iMac is old but still has decent specs. I rarely even turn it on since the advent of iPads. Probably makes sense to have a dedicated machine. Looks like I can get a windows desktop machine that would meet the specs for couple of hundred bucks off amazon. I have two 23” monitors sitting idle. May not be newest or game ready but I’d only use it for Vectric software.

My 27” iMac is a mid 2010 model with 2.8ghz icore i5, 4gb 1333mhz ddr3 ram and anti Radeon 5750 1024mb video card. 1 Tb Drive. That too old for parallels and vcarve and whatnot? Seems slow to me.



Many of us use the Vectric software on our Mac computers...via virtualization. I personally use Parallels to support this. There have been rumors of a potential MacOS version and many of us have been lobbying for it, but at the present time, it doesn't exist. They do have their North American user conference coming up in about a week or so, so who knows? The only Windows machine I own is the one that came with my Camaster CNC to run the controller. I do all my drawing and tool path work on my Macbook Pro, although I do tweaks, etc., while running in the shop on the Windows machine.

[Jim Becker]

My "backup" machine is a mid-2010 iMac and it runs Parallels and Windows just fine....but 4gb wouldn't cut it at all for that. Mine has 16gb it in...and also an SSD which made it like a new machine. RAM is cheap. I actually just added a 4GB stick to my CNC Windows machine today...it cost me $23 from Amazon for the same Crucial stick that came with the machine. My Macbook Pro (2019 15") has 16GB of RAM and I now keep Windows running virtual full time so I can click and start using the Vectric software immediately. On my older 2012 13" MBP with only 8GB, I found it was best to shut down Windows when I wasn't actually using it.

That said, you are correct that you can get a decent Windows machine to dedicate to the task, but don't buy super low end unit. You'll be best served with a decent, albeit not the highest end processor for cost control, 8+ GB of RAM and an SSD. My CNC Windows machine isn't high end, but it works just fine with the Vectric software even with 4GB, but I prefer 8GB for Windows and that's what's in it as of 4pm today.

[David Buchhauser]

I just bought one of these to run my new acorn controller. The price was not too much more for the whole machine than just purchasing an OEM copy of Windows10.
David

www. ebay. com/itm/1-Fast-HP-Windows-10-Pro-Desktop-Computer-PC-Quad-Core-i5-8GB-RAM-250GB-SSD-WiFi/271267412814?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[Greg Parrish]

Well, road bump. I’m backing out on this one. Just found out there is not a 220v power supply where the machine is stored so no way to test it. While it’s probably fine and without issue, it’s a 4 to 5 hour drive from me. Even at less than 50% of retail it’s just too much money for me to comfortably take a gamble.

so, I’m back weighing options I guess.

[Jim Becker]

Not being able to verify operation would turn me off, too.

There's a 2018 Stinger I SR-24 (2'x4') still listed in the classifieds at Camheads. It's a little more than you were looking at at $8500 OBO but has a bunch of options, such as a fully controllable spindle, performance upgrades, the recoil (ornamental) lathe, stand, computer, etc. One down-side is that it's on the left coast. :)

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks. Saw that but way out out of my budget and too far away. :)



Not being able to verify operation would turn me off, too.

There's a 2018 Stinger I SR-24 (2'x4') still listed in the classifieds at Camheads. It's a little more than you were looking at at $8500 OBO but has a bunch of options, such as a fully controllable spindle, performance upgrades, the recoil (ornamental) lathe, stand, computer, etc. One down-side is that it's on the left coast. :)

[Greg Parrish]

For all I know he may be a member here but I haven’t heard back from seller since my initial bow out message this morning but did send a follow up asking if he could secure a spot somewhere for us to plug it in for a quick operational check. Not meaning to actually route something but to at least confirm it powers up and moves easily and fully through all three axis. Will see if he replies as ball back in his court.


EDIT: HE SOLD TO SOMEBODY ELSE WHEN I BOWED OUT. MY LOSS FOR WAIVERING.

[Greg Parrish]

When one door closes, another one opens............ sometimes. LOL

Found a like new Axiom Pro 6 for sale. Not quite as big as the Powermatic, but it’s setup in a shop and I should be able to see it operational beforehand. Messaged with seller today but was tied up playing in a golf tourney with my son. Supposed to call seller in the morning to find out more details about unit and what’s included. Price is roughly same as the Powermatic.

Anyway, the size is actually probably even better for my small space even though I really wanted the 4’ space. That said, the projects I will use it for will be smaller detail and accent work so 24x36 should be plenty big for 95% of time.

Fingers crossed on this one. :)

[Jim Becker]

You can always tile longer work with an open bed machine like that, so if you need to cut something longer than 36", you can still do that. 'Hope it works out for you!

[Greg Parrish]

You can always tile longer work with an open bed machine like that, so if you need to cut something longer than 36", you can still do that. 'Hope it works out for you!

Thanks Jim. Deal made. Picking up next Saturday pending inspection for operational status. :)

[Jim Becker]

Congratulations! And welcome to yet another addiction. :) :D

[Greg Parrish]

Congratulations! And welcome to yet another addiction. :) :D

Thanks. Although 12” shorter this one is currently functional for testing and includes bits, overhead dust arm (homemade one) and copy of vectric desktop. Has stand, drawers and dust collection boot. And looks like new. Should be a good start and I can upgrade as needed down road.

and if I understand I can transfer the desktop to my name for $50 and then upgrade to pro for way less than just buying pro outright.

[Greg Parrish]

Any reason to think I won’t be able to get the axiom pro 6 in the back of a suburban with the rear seats all down if removed from the stand? Thinking it would be safer than bouncing around on my trailer for a 6 hour drive.

[Jerome Stanek]

Any reason to think I won’t be able to get the axiom pro 6 in the back of a suburban with the rear seats all down if removed from the stand? Thinking it would be safer than bouncing around on my trailer for a 6 hour drive.

I would take the trailer just in case. There is a saying that we use. It is better to look at it then look for it when we did trade shows. I always liked to be prepared for the unforeseeable

[Greg Parrish]

Well if I rent the suburban I’m not allowed to tow per rental car companies (if it has a hitch). The measurements/specs point to it fitting. If I don’t then I’ll be using my ford fusion and trailer. No easy way now that I dont have a truck. I guess I could rent a pickup truck and then just worry about possible rain.

But I’m thinking it should fit. The suburban can hold 49” x 102” and has 34”+ height per google search. Ugh. Think I’m gonna have to go measure one.

[Jerome Stanek]

Will the base fit along with the CNC

[Greg Parrish]

Will the base fit along with the CNC
I think so. I have one reserved to pick up tonight. Will measure and see

[Jim Becker]

Just make sure the gantry and spindle is lashed securely so it doesn't move during tipping and transport.

[Greg Parrish]

Will do. I’m taking an assortment of tools and items to better help with what we need to do to make it fit and to get it loaded. Also including items like duct tape, ratchet straps, rope, etc. will make a point to immobilize the unit before we load and before travel. Will take my roll of plastic wrap material too as that can help to immobilize it if wrapped nicely.

Got out the suburban rental. Love it and wish we could keep it. Much larger than the BMW X3. Reminds me of my F350 crew cab that was traded on our motorhome when I got my company car. The suburban is huge and cavernous inside. We should be able to get the stuff loaded with a little effort. Only issue will be managing the weight but space doesn’t seem to be an issue. In fact I think it may fit with the second row seats left up but for sure with all folded down.


Just make sure the gantry and spindle is lashed securely so it doesn't move during tipping and transport.

[Jim Becker]

One thing that can help with securing things is to lower the spindle to the table using the controller (with some protective foam between it and the table) so it's "more stable" during transit. The big machines are actually shipped this way in most cases. That will require powering on the system prior to wrapping it up, so hopefully the seller can accommodate that.

[Greg Parrish]

I was already thinking of lowering it for clearance but that is a good idea also. It is supposed to be setup for me to test when we get there. I’ll have to look for some foam to put in the car. Thanks.


One thing that can help with securing things is to lower the spindle to the table using the controller (with some protective foam between it and the table) so it's "more stable" during transit. The big machines are actually shipped this way in most cases. That will require powering on the system prior to wrapping it up, so hopefully the seller can accommodate that.

[Greg Parrish]

Boy am I pooped but after 9 hours driving and a few hours of sweat equity, the CNC is bought, transported and unloaded. Tomorrow will have to start the reassembly process as I’m too tired to do it tonight.

Think the deal was good. For about 50% new price it has stand, drawer unit and dust boot. Also he gave me a box full of bits, a thumb drive with all of his projects on it, a laptop that is supposed to have VCarve desktop on it, and a power step up transformer to make it work on 110v power (which I don’t need for now).

Anyway, for reference it will slide into a suburban. At least the 24x36 Pro 6 model with stand will. LOL

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[David Buchhauser]

Nice looking machine!

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[Jim Becker]

Congratulations! That's a nice addition to your shop and you're going to enjoy using it to do all kinds of creative things. You'll want to work with the seller to get the VCarve license transferred to you...their participation is required for Vectric software that was supplied with the machine from the OEM. Contact Vectric to get the process.

[Greg Parrish]

slid the machine onto the stand with help of some 2x4’s and my family spotting me here and there.
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everything cleaned and dusted and assembled (not sure why pictures rotated. Sorry)
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Now I need to do some layout work this evening to get this into the place I’m envisioning it. Then time to start learning to use it. :)
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[Jim Becker]

One really nice thing about these 2-by sized machines is that they are small enough that you don't have to have full access on three sides to load them and work with them. That makes them easier to fit into shop sizes that are common for folks who do woodworking for enjoyment. As long as the gantry has clearance to move fully and you have at least the front fully accessible, you'll be fine most of the time. And you can pull it out if you want to tile long things at some point just while you're doing the work.