3-phase old dewalt radial arm

[William Chain]

I picked up a 1940’s DeWalt GE radial arm saw, a real beast. It’s in superb shape but the house only has single phase service. Does anyone have any experience wiring up this VFD?

Vector Control CNC VFD Variable Frequency Drive Controller Inverter Converter 220V 5.5KW 7.5HP for Motor Speed Control HUANYANG GT-Series (220V, 5.5KW) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077KY3W2P/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_pJSIDbXSX9XNA

[Tom M King]

I use one of those HUanyang's. It's been so long, that I don't remember the details, but do remember it was pretty easy. You do take the regular switch out of the circuit, and the buttons on the VFD become the switch. It will also reverse the motor, and start it several different ways, from a slow wind up, to almost instant. The seller should be able to tell you which lugs to use right off for the way you want it to run.

[William Chain]

I'm trying to gather some youtube videos on how to do this, but I take it I would reroute the wire from the motor directly to the VFD? I would like to keep this process reversible and save all the original pieces. Ideally I'd want the original buttons to work, but if this is 100% reversible I can deal.




I use one of those HUanyang's. It's been so long, that I don't remember the details, but do remember it was pretty easy. You do take the regular switch out of the circuit, and the buttons on the VFD become the switch. It will also reverse the motor, and start it several different ways, from a slow wind up, to almost instant. The seller should be able to tell you which lugs to use right off for the way you want it to run.

[Matt Day]

Yes, motor directly to the VFD. A remote switch can be wired from the VFD, but your existing switch might not work.

TONS of information about VFD’s on the net. Do some searching.

[William Chain]

Yes, I'm searching, I'm reading, I'm watching videos.

The motor is confirmed 5 hp. So, from what I've read, oversizing the VFD is bad. Correct? A VFD at 5hp/4KW should then be sufficient, am I correct in that assessment? At $185 bucks, that's a shot worth taking.



Yes, motor directly to the VFD. A remote switch can be wired from the VFD, but your existing switch might not work.

TONS of information about VFD’s on the net. Do some searching.

[Tom Trees]

Has the RAS actually got a 7.5hp motor?
I have both the 3hp/2.2kw Huanyang, and another budget 3hp/2.2kw Isacon/askpower VFD/inverter also.
Both bandsaw and tablesaw have 3hp motors
These are not vector drives, and If I'm not mistaken Vector drives are for high torque applications at a lower speed like on a lathe, than the motor normally runs at
which would be 60hz over there.
The motor needs to run at 60hz to keep cool.
I doubt you need one, the regular 100 quid ones in Europe are good enough for a 24" bandsaw and 12" tablesaw.



They are easy to hook up if your motor is dual voltage, takes about 30 seconds to configure from Star 300v, to Delta 230v. there might even be a schematic to show you, not that thats needed.
If not then you need to either pay a bit more for a 380v out VFD, or transform it to a dual voltage motor by diggin out the star windings ...two ends of the motor
windings and bring them up into terminal box and then configure to Delta
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/download/file.php?id=79377,
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/download/file.php?id=65112&t=1

I suggest you make a cabinet for it, and if the buttons on the machine are not suitable, either buy some cheap buttons for about 3 quid a piece and make a box for them, if you do not wish to make the new buttons fit where the old ones were.
Not hard to fold a wee sheet of metal 5 times to make a box made from an old appliance and make a back and door for it to fit.
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/download/file.php?id=59410&mode=view

Carl Holmgren inspired paddle makes things a bit safer
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/download/file.php?id=59415&mode=view

The buttons will be a NO (normally open) start button, and a NC (normally closed) stop button, you might wish to pony up for a button station which I think is steeply priced for what they are.
As many stop buttons as you like.

You might notice the Huanyangs have the fan running constantly whereas the Isacon drives (the 3hp anyway) have the fan running only when the motor is activated.
Be careful and ask for dimentions if looking on ebay, as some sellers are selling these mini VFD's the size of your hand, with descriptions and pictures of the normal sized models!.

A few important rules are ....
This will be the brain of the motor.

Do not hit run without programming in the correct parameters, as these things have a default setting at eight times the rated speed of your motor!
Speed in parameter talk is related to frequency which is hz (Hertz) so will be 60hz in USA
Speed is also related to pole number, if the plate states around the 3000 RPM figure, it is a two pole motor, If it states around the 1740RPM then it is a four pole motor.
Speed is also in the RPM parameter.

Dont put a plug inbetween the VFD and the motor.

And remember to wait for the power to drain from these things well after there plugged out, as they retain a lethal charge...as there's a 50/50 chance you might need to swap two of the motor wires around
if the saw runs backwards....you must wait until it has dropped charge.

Just incase it has some ancient blade that you might do a test with, Do not bog your machine down ever.
You should never experience bogging down with a 3hp motor anyways unless something is very wrong.

Plenty of folks on uk forums with Huanyangs, I might want the Isacon/askpower feature though if it were me.
You need to buy a relay for the switches if you choose this one, or buy a single toggle switch instead and do the Holmgren job.

Tom

[Bradley Gray]

Or you could buy or build a rotary converter and leave the saw original.

[William Chain]

Thank you, that is quite a bit of information to absorb. I am seeking other details on the motor I have before I pull the trigger on the VFD, but I favor the VFD option over a rotary converter. Seems pretty straightforward at this moment.


Has the RAS actually got a 7.5hp motor?
I have both the 3hp/2.2kw Huanyang, and another budget 3hp/2.2kw Isacon/askpower VFD/inverter also.
Both bandsaw and tablesaw have 3hp motors
These are not vector drives, and If I'm not mistaken Vector drives are for high torque applications at a lower speed like on a lathe, than the motor normally runs at
which would be 60hz over there.
The motor needs to run at 60hz to keep cool.
I doubt you need one, the regular 100 quid ones in Europe are good enough for a 24" bandsaw and 12" tablesaw.



They are easy to hook up if your motor is dual voltage, takes about 30 seconds to configure from Star 300v, to Delta 230v. there might even be a schematic to show you, not that thats needed.
If not then you need to either pay a bit more for a 380v out VFD, or transform it to a dual voltage motor by diggin out the star windings ...two ends of the motor
windings and bring them up into terminal box and then configure to Delta
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/download/file.php?id=79377,
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/download/file.php?id=65112&t=1

I suggest you make a cabinet for it, and if the buttons on the machine are not suitable, either buy some cheap buttons for about 3 quid a piece and make a box for them, if you do not wish to make the new buttons fit where the old ones were.
Not hard to fold a wee sheet of metal 5 times to make a box made from an old appliance and make a back and door for it to fit.
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/download/file.php?id=59410&mode=view

Carl Holmgren inspired paddle makes things a bit safer
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/download/file.php?id=59415&mode=view

The buttons will be a NO (normally open) start button, and a NC (normally closed) stop button, you might wish to pony up for a button station which I think is steeply priced for what they are.
As many stop buttons as you like.

You might notice the Huanyangs have the fan running constantly whereas the Isacon drives (the 3hp anyway) have the fan running only when the motor is activated.
Be careful and ask for dimentions if looking on ebay, as some sellers are selling these mini VFD's the size of your hand, with descriptions and pictures of the normal sized models!.

A few important rules are ....
This will be the brain of the motor.

Do not hit run without programming in the correct parameters, as these things have a default setting at eight times the rated speed of your motor!
Speed in parameter talk is related to frequency which is hz (Hertz) so will be 60hz in USA
Speed is also related to pole number, if the plate states around the 3000 RPM figure, it is a two pole motor, If it states around the 1740RPM then it is a four pole motor.
Speed is also in the RPM parameter.

Dont put a plug inbetween the VFD and the motor.

And remember to wait for the power to drain from these things well after there plugged out, as they retain a lethal charge...as there's a 50/50 chance you might need to swap two of the motor wires around
if the saw runs backwards....you must wait until it has dropped charge.

Just incase it has some ancient blade that you might do a test with, Do not bog your machine down ever.
You should never experience bogging down with a 3hp motor anyways unless something is very wrong.

Plenty of folks on uk forums with Huanyangs, I might want the Isacon/askpower feature though if it were me.
You need to buy a relay for the switches if you choose this one, or buy a single toggle switch instead and do the Holmgren job.

Tom

[Tom Trees]

Thank you, that is quite a bit of information to absorb. I am seeking other details on the motor I have before I pull the trigger on the VFD, but I favor the VFD option over a rotary converter. Seems pretty straightforward at this moment.

Can you see 220v on the motor name plate?
Even if you don't see it on the plate, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be one anyway.
Probably less chance of it being dual voltage since its older, but worth checking under the motor terminal cover to see for yourself.

Might be worth downloading Bob's (Robert Minchin's) induction motor issue 2 PDF
He administrates on the wood haven 2 and you will find the document under his signature.

Two recent threads on another uk workshop forum called "star point in three phase motor" for one, and another titled
MULTICO MODEL K MORTISER SINGLE PHASE CONVERSION

A few Startrite 275's are using Huanyang's also if that interests.


Tom

[William Chain]

The motor plate is worn quite a bit, but the stamped numbers are visible. I am corresponding with a man on another forum who is helping me decode the specs given the info we can read.

The S/N on the column indicates this is a 1944 saw so there are only a few possible motor specs.

I will check out those resources you cite, thank you.


Can you see 220v on the motor name plate?
Even if you don't see it on the plate, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be one anyway.
Probably less chance of it being dual voltage since its older, but worth checking under the motor terminal cover to see for yourself.

Might be worth downloading Bob's (Robert Minchin's) induction motor issue 2 PDF
He administrates on the wood haven 2 and you will find the document under his signature.

Two recent threads on another uk workshop forum called "star point in three phase motor" for one, and another titled
MULTICO MODEL K MORTISER SINGLE PHASE CONVERSION

A few Startrite 275's are using Huanyang's also if that interests.


Tom

[Jeff Ramsey]

I have two of the following VFDs for two three-phase machines: Powermatic 90 lathe, and a Powermatic disc/belt sander. Wiring was a breeze (I added a separate single-phase, 240V 20A circuit shared by both). Configuring it took some back-and-forth with their tech support, but their support was very good and responsive. I've had no issues with either of the VFDs to date (they've both been in service for several years). Maybe you're already done this, but it would help if you could determine the kW required by: (voltage * full load current) / 1000. Then select one that's appropriate for your power needs.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DKJWM62/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Bill Dufour]

Make sure you lock out reverse on the VFD. Do not set deceleration too fast or the blade may unscrew and come off. Not less then 3 seconds to stop.
Bill D.

[Darcy Warner]

Pretty sure 3 wire control wont work with those vfds.

[Tom Trees]

Pretty sure 3 wire control wont work with those vfds.

The 3hp Huanyang drives have it, but the Isacon/Askpower don't have the in built relay.
At least I think it doesn't as these things can fail for no good reason.
Happened to me after swapping the noisy Huanyang over to the tablesaw, it got no mistreatment whatsoever.

I had a second broken Huanyang drive on hand and just swapped the front panel.
I stalled the motor on the bandsaw attempting to follow through with a damaged blade, nearly melted the motor, and cooked the VFD.
so was glad to have spare parts.

Can someone give a description on a suitable relay for the Isacon/Askpower for instance?
Any clue would be a help, as I've been asking around for a while.
Thanks guys

Tom

[lowell holmes]

See this site.

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNS0NxyVAiFiwQ2mf3l31qdzB5hMag%3A 1569518291631&ei=0_KMXeecJum1tgXttZ3gCw&q=convert+a+table+saw+to+240+volts&oq=conv&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.35i39j0i273j0i67l3j0j0i67j0l2j0i131.267424. 268608..274008...0.1..0.92.306.4....3..0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i131i67.LH9CKpPrVBk

I have converted saws fro 120 to 240 volt. It was just a matter of changing jumpers on the motor.

[Tom Trees]

That's a good point Bill
I suppose this would either loosen off the arbor nut,which I've heard plenty of times, or tighten it too much I guess.

Has this been known to happen, about VFD's malfunctioning and making motors run backwards? :eek:

Thanks
Tom

[William Chain]

Thank you all for the information here. Between this thread and a few on other boards, I researched rotary and static phase converters in addition to VFD's. I landed on the VFD, ordered up a 7.5kW 10HP unit. Fortunately at my work we have a few guys that have rigged table saws, bandsaws, vehicle lifts, and a few other items in a similar matter, and pointed me toward the particular unit I ordered. Arrival is imminent, and I will post photos on my progress for interested parties. Removal of the motor junction box revealed a single set of wires, so it would seem it came from DeWalt in 1944 as a 240V setup. The VFD I selected will allow me to use the factory buttons on the saw as the control trigger, so I'll post on that as well. Hopefully when I'm done, so long as one does not peek behind the curtain at the giant box with der Blinkenbuttons (Es is nicht für fingergepoken.) all should look like it did from the factory.

[Bill Dufour]

That's a good point Bill
I suppose this would either loosen off the arbor nut,which I've heard plenty of times, or tighten it too much I guess.

Has this been known to happen, about VFD's malfunctioning and making motors run backwards? :eek:

Thanks
Tom

It is not a failure. Just that all VFDs can run a motor in reverse if you push the reverse button or if it is wired wrong on the first startup. But they should all have a programmable way to prevent the reverse function from working. Actually if it is wired backwards you just tell the vfd that reverse is now forwards there is no need to physically switch the wiring to the motor.
Bill D