Diamond sharpening stone

[Stephen Rosenthal]

So at the risk of starting another long debate about sharpening, I'm taking the plunge and buying a DMT extra coarse diamond sharpening stone. I've worn my Norton 220 grit waterstone to almost wafer thin and frankly am tired of the mess and maintenance of waterstones. I found myself spending more time lapping the darn things and cleaning up afterwards than actual sharpening and putting the sharpened tools to work. If I ever wear out my other three waterstones (likely only the 1000 grit) I'll replace them with the equivalent diamond stone.

[Jim Koepke]

Stephen, After wearing out my low grit water stones my choice was to use abrasive sheets for the coarse work. In the past many more blades came through my shop that needed major work which quickly wore down my 250 & 800 grit water stones.

These days not as many bad blades come home with me. When one does convince me to bring it home, sandpaper is more than adequate to get them headed down the road of recovery.

Diamond stones will also wear with use. My coarsest diamond stone barely seems to abrade steel these days.

Diamond stones do not seem as effective to me for the finer sharpening needs, though many find them to be adequate for their needs.

My solution to "cleaning up the mess" of water stones is to have a small dedicated area with an automotive floor mat under the stones to hold them in place and to keep the water contained.

Since my shop is sometimes below freezing in the winter there is another area set up for oilstones. They are less messy than water stones, but can have moments of oil getting where it isn't wanted.

My diamond stone use is mostly in the kitchen. A fine diamond stone is used for quick touch ups on knives between trips to the shop. Usually if a tomato is not yielding to an edge a few quick swipes on a diamond stone brings it back to slicing through a tomato with little effort.

Tomato slicing is my preferred test for kitchen knives.

jtk

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I have been really pleased with my medium India stone. It is not super coarse but removes material pretty quickly.

I had a 220 norton and spent more time flattening it than I did using it.

[lowell holmes]

Check these out.
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-10-Dia-Sharp-Diamond-Stone-P318.aspx?gclid=Cj0KCQjw_absBRD1ARIsAO4_D3ty5p6zAH 9PUJPKkMR4CoTXa-WGN_8gwCocEo9c725Dnb45Ig75UlcaAusdEALw_wcB

[Phil Mueller]

I use diamond and ceramic for the most part. I just tossed my extra coarse after a number of vintage blade rehabs. It seemed to wear down quickly from that sort of use. For rehab, or aggressive back flattening, etc., sandpaper seems to work most efficiently.

[Tom M King]

I have one of those. It cut real fast, when it was new, but has slowed down a lot. It also developed an aneurysm about an inch and a half from one end, which means I can't use the whole face.

I solved the mess problem with waterstones with a dedicated sharpening sink. It has the sink in one end, and a 92" total length mainly drainboard. It has two faucets on it, with the center one a double swivel spout that will catch the whole drainboard that gets used for sharpening, or fill a bucket off the front. It has no trap, since it doesn't drain anywhere but through the wall into an Azalea bush, so no sewer gases to worry about, or drain to clog. If I'm not using running water on water stones, I'm using oil stones.

That diamond plate only gets used for rough shaping when the CBN grinder is not handy.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

For serious work, I usually use sand paper or a powered solution (Tormek or slow sharpener with an appropriate wheel). I think that the truth is that if I need serious work, the diamond was too slow. If it is less serious work, I am probably using my Tormek. I wanted to explicitly state that because you might want to be using a course diamond stone to reset a bevel that is already pretty close (if you know what I mean).

I use my course diamond stone to flatten my water stones.

When I use a diamond stone to sharpen, I still am putting down fluid of some sort, so I don't find it that much less messy than a water stone... but when I am using a water stone I am already using a pretty fine stone.

[Mark Daily]

Very interesting... I have always used sandpaper for my limited sharpening needs and have been thinking about switching to diamond. The high cost has kept me from switching so far, but hearing that they wear down has really got me thinking I should just stay with paper.

I had no idea they wear down that much. How much sharpening do you guys do before you notice the wear?

[Matthew Springer]

I have the dialap DMT super X coarse and it works as advertised (the big one)

For just getting a blade back flat fast, I've had good luck with a steel plate from McMaster + 40u diamond paste. It cuts faster than the DMT and also doesn't need flattening (at least so far). Mess wise, it's way neater than waterstones, but slightly more messy than the DMT dialap. The plate is the precision cut mild steel in 12" x 4" configuration. I use the water soluble paste in 40u and then lube the stone with 3in1 oil.

[michael langman]

I have found the flat harbor freight, fine,coarse, and medium diamond plates that are about 2'x6' in size work well, for rough flattening of plane blades and chisels for the first flattening.
Then follow up with medium india and my arkansas stones.
The harbor freight diamond plates were only about 10.00 for the set at the time, and I have done quite a few flattenings with them.

[Phil Mueller]

Mark, I wouldn’t necessarily have our comments move you away from considering diamond stones. They last a long time when used for general touch up. It’s when you get into frequent major metal removal i.e. bevel changes, aggressive back flattening, and old edge tool rehab where they can really wear down quickly.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I remember George Wilson posting something about using diamonds to flatten ceramic stones, and that it would ruin the diamond. He used them under running water to avoid that if I recall correctly. I wonder if the folks with worn out diamonds are using them dry, or with some type of cutting fluid, and if that makes a difference.

I do not have any diamond stones, so this is really just a question.

[Aaron Rosenthal]

Stephen, I have 3 diamond DMT stones (Fine, Extra Fine and Extra Extra Fine), and I follow it up with green honing compound on a piece of Plywood.
I've also found the plates take longer and longer to get the blades sharp.
Once I can afford it, I may try some paste or ceramic stones.
Shana Tova and all the best for the family

[Mark Daily]

Mark, I wouldn’t necessarily have our comments move you away from considering diamond stones. They last a long time when used for general touch up. It’s when you get into frequent major metal removal i.e. bevel changes, aggressive back flattening, and old edge tool rehab where they can really wear down quickly.
Thanks Phil- I just have a set of bench chisels and a couple irons for a block plane that I need to keep sharp. Don’t need to regrind bevel angles or anything heavy duty.

Ive been using wet/dry paper used for auto body work and it works great but the paper tears easily and doesn’t last too long so I thought diamond would be a good step up.

Im just not sure what grit diamond to use as they don’t seem to correspond well with paper. Have been thinking about coarse/ fine or coarse/ extra fine so I only need to buy one plate.

Any suggestions from the experts?

[Phil Mueller]

I’m by no means an expert, but I have course, medium and fine diamond plates and an extra fine ceramic. For regular maintenance, I typically go medium/fine diamond then ceramic extra fine. If something starts to dull during use, I may just go a few swipes on a strop with green compound.

My reasoning behind the whole simple set up is that I don’t have a sink in my basement shop, and just found the whole water stone thing a huge mess. Went with diamond/ceramic about 3 years ago and it works well for me. I use a diluted window washing solution for the stones and wipe them off with a rag.

[Mark Daily]

I’m by no means an expert, but I have course, medium and fine diamond plates and an extra fine ceramic. For regular maintenance, I typically go medium/fine diamond then ceramic extra fine. If something starts to dull during use, I may just go a few swipes on a strop with green compound.

My reasoning behind the whole simple set up is that I don’t have a sink in my basement shop, and just found the whole water stone thing a huge mess. Went with diamond/ceramic about 3 years ago and it works well for me. I use a diluted window washing solution for the stones and wipe them off with a rag.
Thanks Phil- can you explain the difference between diamond & ceramic?

[Phil Mueller]

I think technically ceramics are synthetic sapphire, but regardless, I think of them as more of a finish stone. I have no experience with any ceramic other than the ultra fine. Here’s a chart I’ve used as a reference to sort of compare grit/micron size of various materials, although I can’t vouch for its accuracy.

http://www.sharpeningmadeeasy.com/grits.htm

[Andrew Pitonyak]

When I think "Ceramic bench stone", I think things such as Spyderco.

See this link, for example:

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Spyderco-Bench-Stone-Ultra-Fine-P300.aspx

[Mark Daily]

I think technically ceramics are synthetic sapphire, but regardless, I think of them as more of a finish stone. I have no experience with any ceramic other than the ultra fine. Here’s a chart I’ve used as a reference to sort of compare grit/micron size of various materials, although I can’t vouch for its accuracy.

http://www.sharpeningmadeeasy.com/grits.htm

Thanks mucho Phil!

[Mark Daily]

When I think "Ceramic bench stone", I think things such as Spyderco.

See this link, for example:

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Spyderco-Bench-Stone-Ultra-Fine-P300.aspx

Andrew- thanks! I’ll check those out.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

People I know who have tried Ceramic were usually looking for something similar to a water stone but would not need much flattening. Also, I have generally only considered diamond stones for rough sharpening since my fine stones left scratches even on the fine stones. It was suggested to me that if I wore them down these would go away and I have known at least one professional sharpener who claimed to only use diamonds because of their speed.


The following link has a nice pro/con section for each type.

https://www.kmesharp.com/faqknsh.html

They claim that Ceramic stones can be made from various materials like silicon carbide (carberundum), or aluminum oxide (India and water stones), CBN (cubit boron nitride) or other abrasive materials. Although you can follow the link:


Diamonds vs. Ceramic and Arkansas stones:These are basic guidelines for stone selection. There are many variables though, like exactly how dull is the blade? Do we need to remove a lot of stock to develop the bevels? and how hard is the steel itself?
Diamond stone Pros:
Diamond stones are far more aggressive than either ceramics or Arkansas stones. The coarser grit diamonds are great for rapid stock removal and for taking an edge from dead blunt to very sharp quickly. Diamonds are the best choice for sharpening blades made from very hard steels with Rockwell hardness above the mid 50s. A coarse or x-coarse diamond can be worth its weight in gold when sharpening/restoring severely damaged blades.
Diamonds are also a good choice for people who are new to sharpening and those who consider themselves to be “sharpening impaired”. This is because diamonds produce very good results quickly.
Diamond Stone Cons:
While diamond stones are great for speed sharpening, they’re not as good as fine ceramics or Arkansas for the final polishing needed to develop a true surgical edge. Diamonds are more expensive than either ceramic or Arkansas stones and contrary to popular belief they do wear out and will need to be replaced from time to time.
Note: While it’s never a good idea to push on any stone while sharpening in order to speed things up, this is particularly true with diamond stones. Diamond stones are manufactured by literally soldering diamond particles to a steel substrate (electroplating). Applying excessive pressure while sharpening will quickly destroy the stones by dislodging the particles. Use a light touch and let the stones do the work.
Arkansas Stones Pros:
Arkansas stones are polishing stones. A basic Hard Arkansas is still one of the best polishing stones available. They are inexpensive and very long lasting. Very fine grit Arkansas stones like the black or translucent will polish blade bevels far beyond factory sharp.
Arkansas Stone Cons:
Arkansas stones are not intended for rapid stock removal but, for polishing and refining an edge to surgically sharp. If you were to take a very dull blade and try to sharpen it using only an Arkansas stone you would spend hours trying to get the blade sharp but would likely only succeed in polishing the dull edge. You need to finish "grinding" or “profiling” the edge first with something more aggressive like a diamond stone or coarse ceramic.
Ceramic Stones:
Ceramic stones are kind of the middle ground between the diamonds and the Arkansas. They come in a wide variety of grits and can be made from various materials like silicon carbide (carberundum), or aluminum oxide (India and water stones), CBN (cubit boron nitride) or other abrasive materials.
The standard stones (ceramic and Arkansas) are our "go to" stones for any blade that is even remotely sharp to begin with. The X-coarse silicon carbide is a very aggressive stock removal stone but it will wear quickly. Use this stone for quickly reprofiling the bevels on extremely dull blades. The coarse aluminum oxide ceramics are pretty aggressive and the fine side is reasonably fine. Diamonds stones, files, or automotive wet/dry sandpaper are better choices for fast stock removal, then go to the ceramics and finish with the Arkansas.

I believe that the Spyderco medium is about 1000 gritt, fine is 2500, and the ultrafine about 4000 grit, but there is some disagreement I think. UF is 3 micron, but different cutting medium might act like a different grit maybe. I think that a DMT extra-fine is about 9 micron, so even the extra-fine DMT has a larger grit size then the 6 micron spyderco fine. I do not now how that translates into cutting speed or polish. Spyderco medium is 15 micron.

Spyderco has a good reputation and they have been doing this a while.

I think that Spyderco should be used dry.

One person i talked to said that his spyderco UF produces a very nice edge. I think I even have an unopened one that I bought to try and just never got around to trying.

[steven c newman]

Come on up to the Dungeon....and see how I get on...

[Derek Cohen]

Andrew, I have been using the Spyderco Medium and UltraFine ceramic stones for several years. I never use them dry - in fact I would never use any abrasive medium dry as the swarf must be carried away to prevent the surface clogging. My choice is water with a touch of liquid soap.

These stones need flattening when new. I have written about this before. Mine did not require much, and then have stayed flat. I clean them with a little Simple Green and an abrasive pad. Takes seconds and produces a stone that cuts better.

Spyderco do not publish grit-equivalents for their stones. The Medium I have sharpens like a 3000 stone (which requires a lower grit stone to begin the honing process - I generally use a Shapton Pro 1000), while the UF leaves a polished surface similar to 6-8000. I generally finish with a few swipes on green compound on hardwood.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

Come on up to the Dungeon....and see how I get on...

You're the man, Steve.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Will Blick]

Sharpening has been my never ending project...
Some great information here...

I went through lots of diamond plates from DMT, as others correctly point out, they sure do dull fast if used often, they start out great. If u only have a few chisels and planes, maybe not a bad move, specially if you dont sharpen that often.

I also agree, the wet stones, oil or water, are unbeatable for surgical like edges.
I tried powered sharpeners as well, IMO, they all have issues, and u gotta go through lots of grits, which requies constantly changing of the belts, wheels, etc. Sometimes not bad for touch up, where u have two grits available.

The sandpaper on float glass or granite slab is a great and low cost alternative, u gotta by the sandpaper in bulk, or that can get very expensive as well, as its easy to dull a peice of sand paper. But at least u are assured the flatness of the glass or granite, with NO maintenance, i.e. constantly flateening the stones.

I just dulled a diamond plate that flattened my stones which is $400 from Shapton, so you can get into some serious cost this way with wet stones.

IMO, if someone is starting out, and is on a budget, but wants surgical sharpness, I think the most cost effective and one of the best methods is using diamond paste. Buy some nice High quality, MDF, maybe 1/2" or 3/4 if cheaper, cut it in sizes that work for your sharpening needs, similar to the stone sizes. Then buy the diamond pastes on ebay dirt cheap, it works very well, almost as good as the brand names paste. Put a handful of MDF's out, spread all the grits you want, and just move up the grits. The diamond paste comes in small syringes, easy to control output. The MDF is very flat, the diamond stones in the paste, embed in the MDF, and if you dont push down hard, (like u shouldnt anyway) you can easily sharpen 2-5 tools per MDF, then toss, put some fresh MDF down. A 4x8 MDF sheet makes a LOT of flat surfaces for minimal cost. A little paste goes a long way. If you perfect this system, u can get the blades nearly as sharp as my best Shapton water stones that go to 30K grit.

If I did not have so much invested in expensive Shapton stones, I would move to this system. Once my Shaptons wear out, I will move to the MDF system. fast, less mess, and low cost, with results almost on par with the best of the stones. Just like sandpaper, u can have any grit you need to start, from rough sharpening to fine tuning an edge. You only have to wipe the edge clean with a paper towel, before moving to the next girt.. so its fast. No flatenning, no water or oil, no buying new diamond plates constantly, no buying new flattening stones, argggg....

this was another expensive lesson!

[Derek Cohen]

Regarding diamond plates ....

I have some DMT and Eze-Lap plates, and some of these are 15-20 years old. And still cutting. Certainly, not as they did when new, but the point I want to make is that the way they cut when new is not representative of how they generally cut once "broken in".

I have also played with diamond paste for many years. It can work really well, but needs special plates for different grits, and there is a danger of contamination, so wipe carefully. I have only used the oil based variety, and this can get messy if you do not wipe down the plates well after the initial charging. The "must" is to use cast iron if possible. MDF or leather and the like are not recommended as they will need frequent re-charging.

The Spyderco ceramic stones are the closest to minimal fuss. When I take them to shows for demos, I simply carry a couple of wet sponges for wiping down. The system is a worn Eze-lap 600 (acts more like 2000 grit), Medium and Ultra Fine Spyderco, and finish with green compound scribbled on hardwood. A superior system for hand sharpening.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark Daily]

Will & Derek thanks for your input! Obviously sharpening is something one needs to experiment with to find what works best for them. Having input from those with experience can help keep costs to a minimum and avoid “reinventing the wheel”.:)

[Will Blick]

Derek is right, when using MDF, u use ONE grit per 3x6" mdf sheet. You use an mdf for a few blades, and toss it out. A 4x8 sheet of MDF will yield about 250 usable flat surfaces, or about $.10 each. Hard to beat economicaly wise, and it is very effective. Also, buy a good quality MDF that was laying flat, bring it home and cut it, before you stand on its side for some time, allowing it to develop a small buckle.

A good alternative, and even flatter is the a granite surface stone, Grizzly has a nice selection, some on Amazon as well. Most are flat to about 2.5 microns, or .0002"... that is beyond what is needed for sharpening. they run from $85 w shipping to more, based on the size u buy. If u dont sharpen a lot, and you can buy the sand paper cheap enough, this will work as well as any method for sure. Just a heads-up on sand paper vs. stones. Stones just keep cutting...the higher grit sand papers wear FAST! I often replace them every blade. Be sure to buy wet sandpaper, cover your granite fully with sand paper, as if you get the grit on the granite, u can erode the granite over time, defeating reducing its flatness. water under the paper will make it adhere well enough, than the added pressure of the sharpening keeps in place. Klingspor has a nice selection of papers to choose from. If the sandpaper lasted longer, this would be the most cost effective method of sharpening.

[Mark Daily]

Derek is right, when using MDF, u use ONE grit per 3x6" mdf sheet. You use an mdf for a few blades, and toss it out. A 4x8 sheet of MDF will yield about 250 usable flat surfaces, or about $.10 each. Hard to beat economicaly wise, and it is very effective. Also, buy a good quality MDF that was laying flat, bring it home and cut it, before you stand on its side for some time, allowing it to develop a small buckle.

A good alternative, and even flatter is the a granite surface stone, Grizzly has a nice selection, some on Amazon as well. Most are flat to about 2.5 microns, or .0002"... that is beyond what is needed for sharpening. they run from $85 w shipping to more, based on the size u buy. If u dont sharpen a lot, and you can buy the sand paper cheap enough, this will work as well as any method for sure. Just a heads-up on sand paper vs. stones. Stones just keep cutting...the higher grit sand papers wear FAST! I often replace them every blade. Be sure to buy wet sandpaper, cover your granite fully with sand paper, as if you get the grit on the granite, u can erode the granite over time, defeating reducing its flatness. water under the paper will make it adhere well enough, than the added pressure of the sharpening keeps in place. Klingspor has a nice selection of papers to choose from. If the sandpaper lasted longer, this would be the most cost effective method of sharpening.
Will, they used to call that the “scary sharp” method and I have been using it for a long time. I bought the granite block at a local WW store about 10 years ago for about $25. I’ve been using wet/dry sandpaper but you’re right it dulls pretty fast and tears easily when wet. 2000G will produce a pretty good mirror finish but I really don’t know it it’s as sharp as you can get with diamond or an Arkansas stone.

[Will Blick]

I think u can get it as sharp using SS system, IF, u keep changing the paper ;) Very tedious on the higher grits...
What I learned is, while Shapton stones are costly, they are high quality and cut my A2 blades great, the stone needs to be matched to the type of steel u are sharpening for optimum results, Shapton reps will help with this.... but when I consider how much sandpaper I would have gone through vs. the amount I dig into these stones, I would be horrified. These ceramic water stones seem to last forever. NOt sure about the arkansas stones, never used them, prefer water, easier clean up for me as I have a sink at my sharpening area. I also learned with the water stones, soak them for 3 hrs before using, they cut much better. I used to just wet em during use... mistake...
A lot of this comes down to how much sharpening someone will do...

[Will Blick]

Another bit of info for future newbs trying to select a sharpening system....
While I love waterstones, my biggest gripe with them is...
keeping them FLAT...
Even after doing a single plane blade, I mark the stone with pencil marks all over..this is mandatory, as u often think u got a stone flat, but you are way off...eyes dont work here.
I spend more time lapping the stone back to flat, than I do with sharpening the blade.
So when I go through 3 or maybe 4 grits of stones, I spend most of my time flattening the stones. This is the value of the granite or MDF under the sandpaper, NO wasted time Flattening.

The stones I use for flattening, they go out of flat too, except the diamond stones, as they have a hard base, but the stones wear out the diamond much faster than sharpening metal on them. The current one I am using is 400grit Atoma diamond, with metal back... it would be perfect, IF, it it was longer!! A shorter flattening stone vs. your sharpening stone, is not ideal. Also, the flattening stone must be of a grit that is compatible with the stone u are flattening. I use the 400grit Atoma for stones up to 1000 grit. Finer stones, I use the Shapton diamond falltening plate, which should ONLY be used on stones 1000g and up, or it will wear really FAST. If you use a coarse flattening stone, on a fine water stones, the scratch marks in the sharpening stone defeat the benefits of the finer grit stone. Another mistake I learned the hard way.

The granite block with sandpaper could work well for flattening stones , but my shapton stones are only a 1/4" thick, so you sand your fingertips a lot. So then I have to put the stone in a jig. More steps, change sandpaper, clean grainte block, etc.

BTW, for plane blades, I think having a good jig really helps. The goal is to keep the edge square to the roller. Then u stay on the micro bevel, which reduces time on the stone, thereby making the sharpening stone less unflat, so flattening it takes less time. Keeping blade very square is not always so easy. I often struggle to keep the blade square in my LV jig, despite it having a squaring system. You have to pay attention to your edges so u get feedback. Some of the low cost jigs I bought on ebay do a good job, as their jaws are long providing a longer registration area for squareness. But at only $15, I get some dogs too.

I just got the new Woodpecker sharpening jig system, I look forward to trying that jig soon. It has some unique features that I think will be helpful, but I have been wrong before ;)

[Warren Mickley]

The traditional method is to use a water stone for coarse sharpening and then oil stones for polishing. Diamond stones, Shapton stones, and other harsh stones are poor choices for use before oil stones because they make deep scratches that take longer to polish out.

I doubt that whoever wrote this ever wore out an Arkansas stone; my black Arkansas has lost less than .001 inches in 43 years. My soft Arkansas has lost about .004 inches. At this rate it ought to last millennia.

Andrew wrote:

Arkansas Stones Pros:
Arkansas stones are polishing stones. A basic Hard Arkansas is still one of the best polishing stones available. They are inexpensive and very long lasting. Very fine grit Arkansas stones like the black or translucent will polish blade bevels far beyond factory sharp

Arkansas Stone Cons:
Arkansas stones are not intended for rapid stock removal but, for polishing and refining an edge to surgically sharp. If you were to take a very dull blade and try to sharpen it using only an Arkansas stone you would spend hours trying to get the blade sharp but would likely only succeed in polishing the dull edge. You need to finish "grinding" or “profiling” the edge first with something more aggressive like a diamond stone or coarse ceramic

[Will Blick]

Warren, I am curious about your statement...
I use water stones the entire way up, right up to my Shapton 30K stone, which makes a near perfect mirror, shaves my arm hair perfect....
Why would oil stones be preferred for fine sharpening vs. water stones??

[Warren Mickley]

Warren, I am curious about your statement...
I use water stones the entire way up, right up to my Shapton 30K stone, which makes a near perfect mirror, shaves my arm hair perfect....
Why would oil stones be preferred for fine sharpening vs. water stones??

Arkansas stones sort of catch on the roughness of the tool bevel, smoothing the edge. When the edge is polished the action of an Arkansas stone slows down. So we usually sharpen with a coarser cutting stone, and polish with oil stones. Harsh stones, however, leave deep scratches that do not polish out easily.

I have seen very fine results from some Japanese water stones, but Shaptons not so much. Keep in mind that an experienced workman can enhance his results with technique. I don't recommend you go out and buy a new set of stones, but do keep your eyes open.

[Will Blick]

Your comments made me wonder... heck, its been 13 years since I researched all this in detail to select the different sharpening methods.
Hey, dont think I wouldn't buy some Arkansas stones, if I felt it would help... sharpness is such a crazy obsession that is hard to understand!

I did google this extensively and read through a LOT of comparison threads... and it seems, while there is still a small loyal following of the Arkansas stones (they have been around forever vs. modern man made stones), most who converted to whet stones, never looked back. The reasons were numerous, too many to mention here. The other concensus was, the Arkansas are much harder to master, and cut very very slow, which is prob. why the whet stones are becoming more popular. My ceramics cut VERY fast. There is some that mention Ark stones can produce a more durable edge, but this is prob. just an opinion, no side by side comparisons to really bear out such positions. For example, I have found that sharpening to 30k (vs. 15K) on the ceramics will give you an edge that slices through any wood, like a hot knife through butter, BUT, that surgical sharpness lasts a few strokes with a hand plane, and comes back down to a 12-15K grit like sharpness, which that edge holds much longer. So durability often comes down to how fine the edge was to begin with...the finer the edge, the faster the wood will break it down. OF course, the wood hardness is a factor as well.

Also, I recall some of the pros at ww shows, telling me years ago, the type of metal u are sharpening is very important in stone selection. For A2, the Shapton ceramics are ideal, as they were designed to sharpen that speicific metal. They were not designed for O1 blades. Of course, they would still work, but not as well. My experience has been, they do melt the A2 surprisingly fast, the swarf comes so fast, maybe 5-10 swipes max is all that is ever required per grit.

Anyway, not looking to start a Ark vs. whetstone war, just sharing what I dug up in a nutshell, as these posts live on long after they run their course and many newbs will be reading them as they too are confronted with the same dilemnas.

Also... pmv11, also needs to be paired with the right stones. From reading up on this, it seems the consensus is the Bester/Imanishi stones work best. IF someone is just starting out, its best to buy all the same metal types for all your blades, to reduce you expense and storage of stones! I have a handful of PMV11, and am considering more...they do hold an edge longer, but hard to buying more stones!