Bandsaw won't cut a straight piece when I RESAW. Rikon 14" Deluxe

[Johnny Hart]

Newbie to the site, not a newbie to woodworking. Any help appreciated. I cannot get A straight cut when I resaw. I'm a luthier, so I need to be able to cut very straight resaw from stock, like .120" pieces. It has worked before, but not now. I'm pulling my hair and breaking everything in my shop. I have done these things:

1. Almost brand new blade, 1/2" 3-4 tpi combo.
2. Table is square to side of blade.
3. Table is square to the back of the blade.
4. Rip fence is square to the table.
5. The piece I'm feeding into the blade is trued.
6. Tension is set pretty strongly.
7. As Alex Snodgrass would be proud, the deepest part of the gullet is in the center (on the crown) of the wheel.
8. I have adjusted the fence for blade drift, checked it twice.
9. The Rikon 14" Deluxe owners manual gives no instruction on how to set bottom wheel coplanar with top. In fact, it sets a good 3/8" back in relation to the top. After research, I ruled that out as the cause because when I see that the blade tracks the same on both wheels.
10. The blade rips a piece straight as an arrow, but trying to resaw ANY sort of wood (hard or soft) the blade starts to drift immediately upon contacting the wood.

[John Lanciani]

Dull blade. If it’s a Timberwolf or a woodslicer almost brand new = almost worn out.

[Frank Drackman]

I know that it is a almost new blade but that is the first thing I would check. Put a new blade that is appropriate for resawing on your machine and do a few test cuts. This will either solve your problem or take the blade out of the equation.

[Patrick Kane]

Agree with the above. The only time ive had a tracking issue on my saw has always come down to #1 blade is dull #2 blade has too many teeth for the cut im making.

Sharp trumps everything. That goes for handplane setup as it does for bandsaw setup.

[Steve Eure]

Ditto on the above. I have the Rikon bandsaw and the wheels do not need to be co-planer. To me, and I'm sure to get some feedback from this, I have never had an issue with the wheels not being co-planer with each other. I think that is a huge misconception to begin with. My saw will start to go off course with a dull blade period. Also feed rate could play into the saw not performing as it should. BTW, I use the Woodslicer blade and have had issues with it breaking under too much tension. It's a great blade but does dull quickly with some hardwoods.

[Johnny Hart]

Damnit. So .......I get to resaw about three planks for every blade, I guess. Gotta check the brand name I've been getting (the house brand at Highland hardware). If I need to resaw some musical instrument pieces (guitar tops and backs) from 1x8" stock at about .120", which blade do you recommend? Again, I've been told at the store to use the combo 3-4tpi blade. And....I've been feeding it slowly, painfully slow. I guess it's dull.

[Patrick Kane]

If you are doing this a lot, Johnny, i cant recommend a carbide blade enough. I dont know your particularly saw at all, but im guessing its on the lighter end of tensioning and and motor power. For that you will want to look at a resaw king. They are thinner and might come in 1/2". Ive run a resaw king for a year inbetween sharpenings.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I use an 18" Jet for my resawing, often for making guitars. Something may have happened to your blade, it is definitely wise to swap on a new one and see what happens. You could have hit a staple or a dirt pocket, or if you took it off the saw it could have gotten rubbed against something where it was stored that dulled some of the teeth, or anything. I use 3 TPI 1/2" blades and a factory rip fence for my resawing work, it's not ideal but it gets the job done. The other thing is to feed the wood into the blade extremely slowly, if you're resawing something that's 4 times as thick as what you are ripping you probably need to go to 1/6 of the feed speed. Get some scrap wood and mess around till you figure out if it's the blade, the feed speed or something else, and you'll be fine.

[Mark Rainey]

If you are doing this a lot, Johnny, i cant recommend a carbide blade enough. I dont know your particularly saw at all, but im guessing its on the lighter end of tensioning and and motor power. For that you will want to look at a resaw king. They are thinner and might come in 1/2". Ive run a resaw king for a year inbetween sharpenings.
I am not sure if a resaw king comes in 1/2 inch. I see a 3/4 inch on the website. There has been some talk about carbide blades on 14 inch bandsaws. Is anybody running a resaw king on the Rikon 10-326 with successful thin veneers of 1/8 inch?

[John TenEyck]

A 1/2" x 3 tpi bi-metal blade will cut well for a long time. It won't cut as smoothly as a Woodslicer or a carbide blade will, but it will cut consistently straight for a long time.

John

[Mark Rainey]

Damnit. So .......I get to resaw about three planks for every blade, I guess. Gotta check the brand name I've been getting (the house brand at Highland hardware). If I need to resaw some musical instrument pieces (guitar tops and backs) from 1x8" stock at about .120", which blade do you recommend? Again, I've been told at the store to use the combo 3-4tpi blade. And....I've been feeding it slowly, painfully slow. I guess it's dull.
I have the Rikon 10-326 14 inch deluxe also. I have had it for 2 years and even though I have resawed on it, only recently have I tried to tune it up to get thin veneers. It sounds like you have most things dialed in. Blade guides should be a paper thickness distance from blade. Nice to have miter slot parallel to side of blade. I don't care much for this fence. Is yours as tall as the veneer you are cutting? I'm thinking of making my own fence for this bandsaw. I think it takes a lot of practice to get really thin veneers reliably. Who is out there doing 1/8 or 1/16 inch near perfect veneers on this Rikon and what is your set up?

[lowell holmes]

You might want to experiment with blade tension.

[Derek Cohen]

In addition to a dull blade and low tension, the other factor one must consider is internal stress in the wood. The issue here is that the board will want to push itself away from the fence, which will cause the cut to wander.

In anticipation of this, my bandsaw sub-fence extends about 2” past the blade only. This allows the kerf to open without any contact with the fence. Note that the fence is cut away around the blade guard ...

https://i.postimg.cc/ry75CHFY/IMG_2801.jpg

For a 14” machine, rather than a carbide blade - which have a reputation of breaking on small wheels - try a bimetal blade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John K Jordan]

... I cannot get A straight cut when I resaw.

You say you can't get a straight cut. Does that mean the blade is bowing in the wood, giving you a curve from top to bottom? Or something else?

Besides a dull blade, if the wood is good in my experience bowing is almost always due to not enough tension. "Tension is set pretty strongly" doesn't tell much. I use a tension gauge to set and check tension since some of the other methods rely on guess and experience. I use the gauge every tine I put on a different size or type of blade. I might not use it for years since I mostly use the same Lennox 3 tpi flexback blades, but I used it a couple of days when mounting a new carbide blade.

You can make your own tension gauge for nothing:
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?250388-Bandsaw-blade-tension&p=2640804#post2640804
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?250388-Bandsaw-blade-tension&p=2640833#post2640833

If it's wandering back and forth instead of cutting a straight line double check the guides (and be sure the blade is sharp). Sloppy guides or guides set too far back on the blade can be a problem. Don't forget about the lower guides too. Make sure there is clearance between the back of the blade and the guide when freewheeling so the blade is not causing the guide to spin except when cutting.

If the blade is trying to cut to the right or left it can be that the teeth on one side are not as sharp as the other side.

If "cannot get a straight cut" means something else, what?

JKJ

[Tom Trees]

Assuming your tires and blade are clean and the blade is sharp...

I suggest you try another brand of half inch blade.
I was having lots of trouble until I changed supplier.
My new preferred blades have a wider set, and possibly a wee bit thicker of a band.
Yes it will leave a rougher finish, there might be a tooth here and there that is a bit overset.
Yes the kerf seems wasteful, and some of you might say it takes more power to run a saw with the blade.

My answer is it aint wasteful if you can manage straight cuts
I find these blades cut easier as it will cut straight now.

Your pushing a 14" saw to the limit here, I suggest you try and find a supplier that has a guaranteed weld, as this would suggest a heavily invested blade manufacturing system.
If that doesn't work out try another brand of the same size blade.
as I think the best fix in this case, is to get a brand that can weld up blades with better tolerance.
I couldn't see anything wrong with the last companies blades, they looked good but the saw didn't like em.

That's about the best chance you've got on a saw of that size IMO
Best of luck Johnny

Tom

[Charles Grauer]

I would try running the center of the blade on the center of the wheel, crown, so the blade is tensioned it evenly. Running the gullet on the center puts more tension on the front of the blade and leave the rear at less tension. I have run my saws that way for years before all of the advice has become available. One more thing to try.

[Johnny Hart]

Wow, I love this community already. Thanks for all the great info, gentlemen, provided for this newbie guitar luthier, (hartsguitars dot com), playing on his 1 year-old bandsaw. All the help is much-appreciated.

[Richard Coers]

Next to a dull blade, the biggest mistake made on resawing is pushing too fast. If you have sawdust left in the kerf, the blade gullets are full. They you push harder and the blade deflects.

[Johnny Hart]

It's pulling to the left, never weaving back and forth. The guides have been set properly above and below, sides and backs. I check to make sure there is just enough gap (paper thin) to not touch the guides when it's freewheeling. I'm feeding the stock into the blade ever so slowly. It must just be a dull blade like everyone says. I was having a hard time believing the blades were going dull so quickly, which is the reason I came and joined this community. I need to become more knowledgeable about the bandsaw. I have a book, have watched videos galore. But nothing beats talking to people who work with these machines a lot. Thanks everyone. I'm going to try a new type of blade.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Always pulling to the left implies that the teeth on one side of the blade have been dulled by contact with something, at least to my way of thinking. If nothing else about how you set up your saw has changed and now the performance has changed a lot I can't think how else to account for it, but I may be overlooking something obvious.
Zach

[glenn bradley]

A 1/2" x 3 tpi bi-metal blade will cut well for a long time. It won't cut as smoothly as a Woodslicer or a carbide blade will, but it will cut consistently straight for a long time.

John

My experience is the same. I don't get it when people claim very short life for Timberwolf, Woodslicer or Bi-Metal blades. During one thread I did a quick comparison for a few blades that were hanging on the peg. None new and all did fine.

To the OP, bandsaw setup and use is presented as one of the most overly complicated, shrouded in mystery topics that get discussed on woodworking forums. Don't get lost in the noise. The often touted Alex Snodgrass method (Love ya Alex) focuses on narrower blades on crowned tires. That being said, I run a 1/2" carbide blade for resaw without issue but, I digress.

If your blade is tracking in the same position on each wheel you are probably coplaner so I am somewhat confused by the conflicting info. I guess I should throw out a disclaimer that I prefer to run the bandsaw as designed, with coplaner wheels. I will repeat (ad nauseam I'm sure to long-time members) that setting my wheels coplaner and doing a good alignment on my saw was a life-changing event in my bandsawing career :D. I was suddenly able to change blades with impunity, banish drift from my shop and enjoy a smoother and quieter running machine.

So, let's skip the whole "wheels don't need to be coplaner" argument and look at your blade. As mentioned, I get pretty decent life out of nominally priced blades. If you buy a new blade and suddenly everything is wonderful your blade was obviously the culprit. The question is why. As mentioned I was demonstrating that I could change blades without accounting for drift and in doing so used a variety of blades that all had a fair amount of wear on them. Granted this was not a resaw of any great height as that was not the object at the time.

416846

I did get consistent results off the blank when changing blades while only adjusting the guides as required for the blade in use; no fence adjustments or other voodoo.

416847

I also run the keeper next to the fence although some people go through a lot of effort to prove that this is the cause of all your troubles.

416848 . 416849

I decided to just keep doing is "wrong". :) Just to focus a little more on your subject, here's a piece of cherry resawn to about 1/8". Not being a luthier I am only guessing that this is closer to what you may be doing.

416851

At any rate, your blade wear (if that proves to be the issue) is concerning. If you are not resawing pecan or ipe you should get a few hundred lineal feet out of a decent metal tooth blade. Too much empirical proof of early failures of carbide blades on 14" wheels here and on other forums for me to recommend a carbide blade although . . . that would be a life-altering experience, trust me.

The things that will kill your blade, other than obviously mineral-rich material, can usually be controlled with feed rate. Listed to your machine, you will "feel" a sweet spot during a cut; that is your feed-speed. If all else fails you can go to a knife-fence which you can whip up out of scrap in a few minutes.

416845

I would not want to have to focus that much of my attention for the amount of time required to get through a production batch of resawing with a knife-fence but, they can get you through a tough spot.

The other easy fix is to just run one of these blades.

416850

OK, just kidding. Please let us know what you find out with the new cutter.

[Mark Rainey]

Johnny, after much practice I nailed resawing on the Rikon 10-326 deluxe. Started with new Woodslicer blade. As most comments stated, this may be most of the equation. Checked for drift on blade: NONE. Blade centered on top wheel, not gullets. Blade looked close to centered on bottom wheel, so I did not pursue co-planer any further. Table adjusted to make sure miter gauge slot is parallel to the side of saw blade. Blade side square to table, back of blade square to table. Fence square to table ( no drift, no correction needed ) and almost perfectly square from surface of table to top of fence. Blade guides a hair away from blade, occasionally spinning during manual push on wheel. Guides 1/8 inch above board. Dust collector on. Started cut and blade began to wander inwards. Yikes. Forgot to lock blade guard! When you lock the blade guard it shifts the guides forward. Reset guides with blade guards in position. Started cut very slowly. A nice 1/8 inch cherry board! Feeling confident, I went for a 1/16 inch board. Perfect!

[glenn bradley]

I forgot my boring "crowned tire blade position" visual aid ;-)

416887416888416890

[Mark Rainey]

Pics from resaw416889416891416892416893

[Mark Rainey]

Next to a dull blade, the biggest mistake made on resawing is pushing too fast. If you have sawdust left in the kerf, the blade gullets are full. They you push harder and the blade deflects.
Richard I think you are right, a slow feed is important

[Mark Rainey]

I know the Rikon 10-326 deluxe is a popular mid range bandsaw, so I am interested in others experience with this saw. I have seen some information that 14 inch saws cannot tension 3/4 inch blades even though the manufacture says it can. I have some pitchy pine to resaw, and decided to try out the Lennox flex back carbon 2 points per inch with raker tooth at 3/4 inch and .032 inch thickness of blade. I put the blade on, tensioned to 3/4 inch on the tension gauge, and checked it for flutter. There was minimal to none. I did not asses for drift, my bandsaw had been tuned up as described earlier in this post. I needed to resaw an 11 inch piece of poplar today and the blade cut perfectly. It was a lot louder and "rumblier" than the wood slicer, and the kerf was noticeable larger. My dust collection system was OK, there was more sawdust than the wood slicer. I will try it out on my pitchy pine soon.

[Ross Manning]

Try moving the thrust bearing back. I was very frustrated with my saw, trying all the online advice. In desperation I eventually backed off all the guides and was getting great results. Eventually found that a thrust bearing set close to the blade caused a LOT of drift and a cut that pulled to the side. The side guides are now set normally, but I don't sweat the thrust bearing and keep it well back.

[justin sherriff]

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?250388-Bandsaw-blade-tension&p=2640833#post2640833


The basic calculation is Young's Modulus = Stress/Strain, where:


1) The Young's Modulus of steel is about 30 x 10^6 psi.
2) Stress, the value you are after - the tension in the blade in psi.
3) Strain = Deflection / gage length. The vernier measures deflection, and the gage length is the starting distance between the jaws under zero load.


So, you rewrite the equation as Stress = Young's Modulus x Strain = 30 X 10^6 x deflection/gage length


The gage length I started with was 4.768", so when I measured a deflection of 0.003" that was equal to a blade tension of 30 X 10^ x 0.003/4.768 = 18,876 psi.


the math in this post made it look hard to me, if I am rite then 10^6 is 10,000,000
so I think it works like this 30 x 10,000,000 x how much the caliper moved then divide buy the starting length on the caliper = tension psi

[lowell holmes]

I always rip 1/16" wide and finish on my planer. It is perfect every time.
https://www.google.com/search?q=lowe...hrome&ie=UTF-8

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=...d65BHsQ4dUDCAs

Maybe it is time for a new toy.