ZCI for MM300 Smart

[Carl Beckett]

Anyone know where I can purchase zero clearance inserts for a MM300 Smart combo machine?

Otherwise will make one.

[Jim Becker]

AFAIK, they don't exist commercially. But I could be wrong about that. You might contact Sam Blasco and see if he knows of a source. I believe he's made his own inserts for his SCM/Minimax saw setup using phenolic...I recall having a conversation with him about that. The span is wide, so "wood" isn't necessarily ideal because there's not a lot of support there to keep it flat.

As an alternative to ZCI if you have a scoring blade, use it even for solid stock. Zero tear out top and bottom. That's what I do for critical cutting on my S315WS.

[Mark e Kessler]

They are pretty easy to make, here is one i made for a K700s. 416770416771416772

[Patrick Kane]

Everytime i see someone with the block of wood between the crosscut extrusion and the blade i tell myself i need to add that to my saw. Mark, how do you attach that to the extrusion? I need to look at it tonight, i forget if there is a cap on the end of the extrusion or if its open.

[Rick Potter]

Can't speak for Carl, but I need to make an insert for my MM 300CU Smart because every time I trim off a narrow strip, it goes right down the blade opening just like it was sucked down...which of course, it is.

Open it up, dig it out....annoying.

[Mark e Kessler]

Everytime i see someone with the block of wood between the crosscut extrusion and the blade i tell myself i need to add that to my saw. Mark, how do you attach that to the extrusion? I need to look at it tonight, i forget if there is a cap on the end of the extrusion or if its open.

I made a block to fit in the extrusion (the piece in the extrusion is only 2-3” long) which is held in place with a set screw that I drilled and tapped into the extrusion


416779416778416780

[Mike Kees]

Mark ,I to noticed this block on the end. Is the set screw the black spot on the right side of the middle picture ?

[Mike Hollingsworth]

You might contact Sam Blasco and see if he knows of a source.

Sam made a batch from phenolic about ten years ago. If you can get him to make some again I'm in for a couple more.

[Mark e Kessler]

Mark ,I to noticed this block on the end. Is the set screw the black spot on the right side of the middle picture ?

Yes it is, attached is a better pic (I think}. I did end up buggering the extrusion a little bit. I thought about doing it a few different ways one was putting the screws in the upper right and left thinking it would hold a bit better then the way I ended up doing it with the screws being close together but it holds well. The set screw is basically just clamping the block, I think the screws are m6.

416796

[Derek Cohen]

This is the ZCI for my Hammer K3, which I built around the original insert. With rebates and recessed aluminium strip. The reason for choosing aluminium was that the strip closing the gap is thin, and other materials tend to break. Aluminium does not harm carbide teeth.

https://i.postimg.cc/G2MQDN4X/3.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/QM30ZcLJ/2.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/q7xQJg4V/1.jpg

Over at the Australian forum, a member based their version for a MM SC-2 on this, using aluminium angle ...

https://i.postimg.cc/W3cC1YjH/ZCI-1.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/zBwMbwGX/ZCI-2.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark e Kessler]

Derek, that's pretty slick - I was planning to do Aluminium the BB one shown was actually a prototype to figure out all the details, in the end I found that the BB is more than adequate. There is some flex side to side but hardly any up and down where it matters the most, the "L" is what prevents that. there are actually some details in my prototype that need refined but I found it works so well I haven't bothered but I will soon as I want to make one for 45deg...

Mark


This is the ZCI for my Hammer K3, which I built around the original insert. With rebates and recessed aluminium strip. The reason for choosing aluminium was that the strip closing the gap is thin, and other materials tend to break. Aluminium does not harm carbide teeth.

https://i.postimg.cc/G2MQDN4X/3.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/QM30ZcLJ/2.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/q7xQJg4V/1.jpg

Over at the Australian forum, a member based their version for a MM SC-2 on this, using aluminium angle ...

https://i.postimg.cc/W3cC1YjH/ZCI-1.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/zBwMbwGX/ZCI-2.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Carl Beckett]

Awesome info as always, thanks everyone.

This is all part of dust collection/control upgrade. Rick, YES! all those thin cutoffs go right under the the blade and then need to be dug out. PITA.

Then the overhead guard project is underway. More on that later. But as part of the guard project, the end of the crosscut needs extended with a shorter/stubby piece so it will slide under the overhead guard more easily. It has one on there already but for a wider guard this needs extended. So those pics are great as well. (I will either make from wood, or I likely will try printing one on the 3D printer as a first attempt.

The ZCI, if I make one, will be aluminum. I do have a scrap of corian I could use but think aluminium is pretty straightforward. Will see if Sam has any (or wants to make more - it seems like a good CNC job and if there are others here that would buy them....)

Some of the objectives are:

Get overhead dust collection in place (will also consider some swing down sides that will shield either side when doing smaller cutoffs)
This includes an end on the cutoff fence to allow it to slide under the blade guard if the guard is closer to the wood
Get the clearance around the saw blade tighter so less dust goes down, and all those thin strips stay above the surface
Add DC remote and a blast gate near the saw

All this is over do. What pushed me to put this higher on the list was some walnut recently, since the dust from walnut really messes me up. And after doing a large lot of cutoffs for a project there was dust all over the shop and a 'haze' of dust in the air. Not good. The overhead collector is not adequate (lots on that in other posts).

Stay tuned

[Mike LewisTX]

If you draw it up in a CAD program you could have a local machine shop mill one out for you in whatever material you like. I would think HDPE or Delrin would be good options. If the blade were ever to contact them it wold not damage the blade. I understand aluminum is softer than carbide; however it will dull the blade faster than a plastic. Delrin is used substantially in subsea applications and has great milling and strength properties for what it is.

[Mark e Kessler]

Suppose you can make it out of whatever, I use a 10k cad box at work have access to hi-precision milling in any material, 3d printers - one of which will print with carbon fiber and still chose wood, you know why? Because I have wood laying around,it's a fantastic material that plays nice with sawblades and I have woodworking machines that I can use to make. The best part is it cost me scrap wood and no more than an hour to make it and that was on the first go just winging it and eyeballing, the subsequent ones in qty's would probably only take 1/2hr.

the Alum one that Derek made would be my next choice material

[Jim Becker]

Material choice is going to be affected by the fact that these table inserts on an SCM/Minimax slider (whether stand-alone or in a combo) are much, much longer and narrower than with a typical cabinet saw. (About 20" on my tool) They are also essentially unsupported along the long edge that is adjacent to the slider wagon. (left of the blade) Therefore, something that is sturdy and stiff so it doesn't deflect easily is going to be preferential. Sam made his out of phenolic material. I'm probably going to use aluminum for a dado insert for my slider when I get around to it. I'm not convinced that many wood or wood-based products will be ideal for this, especially since in addition to the blade slot there is the additional need to accommodate the riving knife...that's a very long opening with a very thin/narrow piece of material to the left of the blade. I'd almost want to use aluminum angle for this so there is stronger support at the edge.

[Mark e Kessler]

They can be made sturdy in wood, did you see the one that I made?

You need to make in the shape of an "L" with the "L" going under slider slightly with a 45 deg or less. It is MORE than enough sturdy. No doubt Phenolic or aluminum could be potentially better but as woodworkers with fancy saws (like me :)) you owe it to yourself to bang one out and see how it goes plus it's fun and satisfying to see your fix actually work. I do agree if they are available to buy that might be the easiest path however now that I made one (last one I made for a slider was 20+ yrs ago) I see no reason to buy when I can make.





Material choice is going to be affected by the fact that these table inserts on an SCM/Minimax slider (whether stand-alone or in a combo) are much, much longer and narrower than with a typical cabinet saw. (About 20" on my tool) They are also essentially unsupported along the long edge that is adjacent to the slider wagon. (left of the blade) Therefore, something that is sturdy and stiff so it doesn't deflect easily is going to be preferential. Sam made his out of phenolic material. I'm probably going to use aluminum for a dado insert for my slider when I get around to it. I'm not convinced that many wood or wood-based products will be ideal for this, especially since in addition to the blade slot there is the additional need to accommodate the riving knife...that's a very long opening with a very thin/narrow piece of material to the left of the blade. I'd almost want to use aluminum angle for this so there is stronger support at the edge.

[Carl Beckett]

I am making Al (have a mill) and was not planning to draw it on CAD, no need, it it not complicated. I will put an old blade on the saw and raise it through the Al... yes it might dull it a little but Al cuts ok and with an old blade it will be fine.

BUT: If there is interest here and someone wants to CNC a batch out of phenolic, I will draw it up in CAD 'for the cause'... and in return I get a couple to use for myself (or at reduced cost).

My goal is to just get a functional insert and move on with other projects.

Mine is a MM CU300 smart. Not sure what other saws use the same ZCI dimensions.

[Carl Beckett]

btw, this is the miter fence end that came with my saw. It has several cuts near the business end, so I am guessing these are available as replacement parts.416874

Do you like all the sawdust that is thrown everywhere?

Oh, this was underneath the blade... completely blocked due to thin cutoffs. Common occurrence for me.

416875

[Jeffrey Kretz]

One thing that Sam Blasco mentioned was taping a thin piece of veneer or plastic laminate (e.g. vertical grade Wilsonart) to the cast iron table along the edge of the slider.

Since the slider is usually adjusted to be proud of the cast iron table, this ends up making a flatter surface right up to the blade (also helps with the shaper cutter).

I believe this would made a good zero clearance for the saw blade. I'll be trying this solution out when my machine arrives.

[Mark e Kessler]

yep, you need a ZCI ASAP... the nose is and easy build as well, use your FritzFranze to make the cuts...


btw, this is the miter fence end that came with my saw. It has several cuts near the business end, so I am guessing these are available as replacement parts.416874

Do you like all the sawdust that is thrown everywhere?

Oh, this was underneath the blade... completely blocked due to thin cutoffs. Common occurrence for me.

416875

[john lawson]

I am making Al (have a mill) and was not planning to draw it on CAD, no need, it it not complicated. I will put an old blade on the saw and raise it through the Al... yes it might dull it a little but Al cuts ok and with an old blade it will be fine.

BUT: If there is interest here and someone wants to CNC a batch out of phenolic, I will draw it up in CAD 'for the cause'... and in return I get a couple to use for myself (or at reduced cost).

My goal is to just get a functional insert and move on with other projects.

Mine is a MM CU300 smart. Not sure what other saws use the same ZCI dimensions.

I would be in for this if someone wants to make them.

[Mark e Kessler]

Not totally getting what you are saying here, you might do that if you were cutting to the right of the blade using the rip fence to get your material above the slider (I never bother it's never an issue), your material has more potential get hung up if you do that and use the slider. maybe I am reading this wrong?


One thing that Sam Blasco mentioned was taping a thin piece of veneer or plastic laminate (e.g. vertical grade Wilsonart) to the cast iron table along the edge of the slider.

Since the slider is usually adjusted to be proud of the cast iron table, this ends up making a flatter surface right up to the blade (also helps with the shaper cutter).

I believe this would made a good zero clearance for the saw blade. I'll be trying this solution out when my machine arrives.

[Jacob Reverb]

Seems like a ZCI should be a fairly simple project for a woodworker.

I make mine out of 1/4" aluminum, and tig on a double thickness of 1/4" (epoxy should also work) for the four "feet" that bear on bosses in the tabletop, then file to flush.