Scary Shaper

[Steve Mathews]

I have a healthy respect for all of my power tools but the 3hp Northwood shaper that just came my way surprised me with the quick realization that this machine could do some serious bodily damage if things went wrong. Maybe it was the noise it created with the attached cutter (not as noisy without) or the speed of the massive 1 1/4" spindle. Regardless, the machine was intimidating at first startup and awesome in the way it easily shaped a test piece. My only previous experience with a similar forming tool were with hand held routers and a small Jet shaper. Can't wait to tackle some projects with it.

[brent stanley]

I have a healthy respect for all of my power tools but the 3hp Northwood shaper that just came my way surprised me with the quick realization that this machine could do some serious bodily damage if things went wrong. Maybe it was the noise it created with the attached cutter (not as noisy without) or the speed of the massive 1 1/4" spindle. Regardless, the machine was intimidating at first startup and awesome in the way it easily shaped a test piece. My only previous experience with a similar forming tool were with hand held routers and a small Jet shaper. Can't wait to tackle some projects with it.

Welcome to arguably the most versatile tool in the shop! Wait till you are around a even bigger machine spinning dinner plate sized tenon discs!

As with any shop machine they can give you a serious bite. I was lucky enough to be around an instructor in the UK when I first experienced a spindle moulder. I would consider a thorough study of this book essential before you use it. https://amzn.to/2QkbpOy

B

[Bill Dufour]

from fine hoimebuilding

I got a chance to go buy the supply house where the Northwood equipment was originally purchased. As far as I can determine it is the same Northwood that makes the big industrial CNC routers. They had purchased a far east company that manufactured the smaller industrial equipment, and sold it under thier name. It was subsequentially repurchased by the original owner and is now called Northtech Industrial Machinery. I did not have time to look over the few pieces of Northtech equipment that they had setting on diplay.
Does anyone have opinions on Northtech?

[Bill Dufour]

https://www.northtechmachine.com/NT-101-73-Spindle-Shaper-P-1975.html

[Steve Mathews]

https://www.northtechmachine.com/NT-101-73-Spindle-Shaper-P-1975.html

Looks very much like my Northwood in form and construction. The differences seem to be a larger 7.5hp motor compared to my 3hp, twin belts driving the spindle compared to one on mine, separate on/off switch and some changes to the fence. Otherwise it looks about the same.

[Leo Graywacz]

If you think that's scary wait until you do your first templated cathedral panel with that cutter spinning in the open air with no fence to be seen.

[Mike Cutler]

Steve

Once you get used to a shaper, you'll wonder why this wasn't one of the first machines you brought into the shop.
There have been quite a few threads on the shaper this past year. Lots of good info contained in them.
Be safe with it and take it easy until your comfort level goes up.

[Edward Dyas]

If you are using solid cutters or a lock edge collar you shouldn't have much danger if you are careful. My shaper collar is one that uses the smooth edge knives. You have to be sure when making cutters that both knives are as close alike as possible and more important the same weight. One knife can be a half of a gram heavier than the other and you want to run for cover when you turn the machine on. If you are making your own cutters it would make the machine run a lot smoother if you would weigh them and make them the same weight. It also makes for less wear on the bearings.

[lowell holmes]

You should use push sticks when shaping smaller pieces.

[Osvaldo Cristo]

If you think that's scary wait until you do your first templated cathedral panel with that cutter spinning in the open air with no fence to be seen.

Nightmare. I am out.

My respect for people that win their lives working with a such tool!

[Mike Kees]

I disagree with both of the last two posters. First as the O.P. is new to shaper use he should not be even considering tooling with collars,period. A euroblock cutterhead with the two pin knife system would be a far better starting point. I am sure that Brent will chime in here shortly and talk about Whitehill cutters. That will be good advice. You will very soon realize that you have half of a machine. the other half is a power feeder,they make cleaner cuts possible because of the constant feed rate. The other massive bonus is safety,it keeps your hands away from danger. A power feeder is the way to feed smaller pieces through a shaper. Brent gave very good advice on that book as well,that would be a good start.

[Steve Mathews]

I disagree with both of the last two posters. First as the O.P. is new to shaper use he should not be even considering tooling with collars,period. A euroblock cutterhead with the two pin knife system would be a far better starting point. I am sure that Brent will chime in here shortly and talk about Whitehill cutters. That will be good advice. You will very soon realize that you have half of a machine. the other half is a power feeder,they make cleaner cuts possible because of the constant feed rate. The other massive bonus is safety,it keeps your hands away from danger. A power feeder is the way to feed smaller pieces through a shaper. Brent gave very good advice on that book as well,that would be a good start.

I didn't expect to receive the response and good advice that followed my original post. Fortunately the shaper came with a 1hp power feeder. It has a 3 phase motor which I intend to purchase a VFD to power it. I also need to replace the wheels. The book mentioned earlier is also on my buy list. I'm just now beginning to realize the benefit that this tool will provide. Thanks all!

[Kevin Jenness]

The Northtech spindle housing looks like a dead ringer for the Northwood 101. You should be able to get a 3/4" spindle and a router spindle from them that would fit.

[brent stanley]

I didn't expect to receive the response and good advice that followed my original post. Fortunately the shaper came with a 1hp power feeder. It has a 3 phase motor which I intend to purchase a VFD to power it. I also need to replace the wheels. The book mentioned earlier is also on my buy list. I'm just now beginning to realize the benefit that this tool will provide. Thanks all!

I've been using a shaper almost daily for a long time now and I turn to it for a lot of things folks don't realize shapers get used for. That book will get you very excited about your machine when you see the doors it opens up!

1 HP may well mean it's a good sized feeder which is nice. I use a VFD on my small feeder but typically choose the gearing that allows the motor to spin as fast as possible to ensure cooling.

B

[brent stanley]

I disagree with both of the last two posters. First as the O.P. is new to shaper use he should not be even considering tooling with collars,period. A euroblock cutterhead with the two pin knife system would be a far better starting point. I am sure that Brent will chime in here shortly and talk about Whitehill cutters. That will be good advice. You will very soon realize that you have half of a machine. the other half is a power feeder,they make cleaner cuts possible because of the constant feed rate. The other massive bonus is safety,it keeps your hands away from danger. A power feeder is the way to feed smaller pieces through a shaper. Brent gave very good advice on that book as well,that would be a good start.

Well said Mike. Chip limiting tooling for newcomers is a much better way to get started, coupled with a bunch of safety homework. Round form carbide tipped cutters (that are made to chip limiting standards) might be easiest but limiter-style/euroblock is a lot more flexible and less expensive for a lot of folks in the long run.

[J.R. Rutter]

If you think that's scary wait until you do your first templated cathedral panel with that cutter spinning in the open air with no fence to be seen.

Yikes! I like to just back the fence out of the way to have a convenient pivot/friction point and some dust collection. A Panelcrafter makes it feel a lot safer, too.

[brent stanley]

Yikes! I like to just back the fence out of the way to have a convenient pivot/friction point and some dust collection. A Panelcrafter makes it feel a lot safer, too.

Absolutely. At the very least. There are some more elaborate guarding option available commercially from Aigner and others but they can be shop made too.

B

[Mike Cutler]

Nightmare. I am out.

My respect for people that win their lives working with a such tool!

Osvaldo
No nightmares.
The shaper, or spindle moulder, is a safe machine when used properly. It got a bad rap because people weren't careful with it, performed questionable operations, and got themselves hurt in the process. Same as a table saw. It is a machine that needs to be respected though. The cutter heads, even on a small shaper, like Steve just purchased, will have a fairly significant rotational mass, so the energy is there.
To address Leo's statement, if I may. Leo, like myself, has operated the shaper for many, many, years by hand feeding it. This is the way I was taught to use it actually. I don't know that I have never had some type of guard over a cutter head. There's always been something there, even if it was just a dust collection hood. I now have a power feeder and it's pretty cool. I haven't used it a lot, but it does make many operations safer, and easier. If you do perform template work on a shaper, your forms need to be robustly built, have good positive hand holds, and control of the material. If it's good enough for a router table, it's probably not anywhere near good enough for a shaper.
I was taught to use one in wood shop, an industrial arts type course in the US, that I took for 6 years in middle school and high school. If a bunch of teenage boys in the 70's could learn to use it, and not get hurt, anything is possible. ;)

[Mark Bolton]

is a safe machine when used properly

The same can be said for Dynamite, Uranium, or a utility knife. I would argue that if someone is scared or see's a tool as a nightmare, it likely is one.

Feeder operations are gravy. the only thing that will be roached is your tooling, your feeder, or your fence/fixture.

Seeing guys to this day hand feed easings, basically operating like a human 5 axis CNC, I will pass, even though it looks effortless.

The things that look the easiest will likely be the hardest things you ever attempt in your life.

[Mike Cutler]

The same can be said for Dynamite, Uranium, or a utility knife. I would argue that if someone is scared or see's a tool as a nightmare, it likely is one.

Feeder operations are gravy. the only thing that will be roached is your tooling, your feeder, or your fence/fixture.

Seeing guys to this day hand feed easings, basically operating like a human 5 axis CNC, I will pass, even though it looks effortless.

The things that look the easiest will likely be the hardest things you ever attempt in your life.


Mark
I'm done with the dynamite and nuclear weapons. Still working with uranium. They took the utility knives away a few years back here at work. ;)

You are right though. If a person is uncomfortable with a machine, they shouldn't be using it.

[Edward Dyas]

There is no reason to say a beginner can't grind their own knives for a shaper and be safe with it. As long as they follow some simple basic rules almost anyone can do it. Making your own tooling is a special benefit to woodworking. How often do you see someone trying to find a router bit that matches the woodwork in their house. More often than not the woodwork was never done with a router but a proprietary molding made by a small shop not in business anymore. I bought my first shaper more than 30 years ago and bought a collar and bars of steel and made my own. I had worked for a company that used similar cutters and noticed the old man that was tending to them always made the knives alike and weighed the knives every time he sharpened them. I've also worked for places that would use one knife as the cutting knife and would put just any knife on the other side. They would run out of balance, noisy and very dangerous. This type of attitude toward the shaper is what gives the machine a bad reputation and why knives have been thrown.

[Rod Sheridan]

A shaper is an extremely versatile and safe machine, if used with proper tooling and guards.

I just hosted a Felder shaper seminar last Saturday, it's always an eye opener for people new to the machine.

MAN rated tooling, proper guards, work holding devices and a stock feeder allow you to use the machine to it's capabilities while remaining safe.

Regards, Rod.

[lowell holmes]

After severely cutting my thumb almost to the bone, I use push sticks on any tool that blades or cutters come close. If a lot of chips are flying, I also wear safety glasses.

[Leo Graywacz]

Yikes! I like to just back the fence out of the way to have a convenient pivot/friction point and some dust collection. A Panelcrafter makes it feel a lot safer, too.

A starting pin with a long infeed of your template makes everything pretty safe. I even have a plastic guard that goes on top of the cutter that has a bearing that pretty much makes it as safe as it can get. The biggest safety item when you are shaping "freehand" like that is razor sharp cutters. That way they cut and never grab. Good hand holds on the template help a lot too.

I've only used a pro template system once and it was nice. But not nice enough to spend that kind of money on when particleboard and some good handles and hold downs will do the job just as well. But if you plan on doing a lot of cathedral panels or curved top panels it's really nice to have all the templates precut for the panels and the rails.

[Mark Bolton]

After severely cutting my thumb almost to the bone, I use push sticks on any tool that blades or cutters come close. If a lot of chips are flying, I also wear safety glasses.

As it applies to really serious shaper fed operations, a push stick is simply a lever that gives the machine more advantage than you have. Its often times the cause of a different injury though its a better injury than being engaged in the cutterhead.

[Kevin Jenness]

The powerfeed is key to safe shaper operation, and it is not limited to straight cuts. I have often used a powerfeed with one wheel and manual steering on curved work. I have done plenty of cuts with hand guided templates, but if the powerfeed can be used I do so. Extra length on the template and workpiece are helpful to avoid snipe. If the work runs away from the bearing, collar or fence I can run it again. Complex curves may be better guided by hand, but moderate ones do well with a powerfeed.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I was nearly killed by a shaper. A guy put the wrong knives for the head and it threw a knife at me at 8000 RPM. I was saved by my overalls- the knife hit a button on the overalls and bent the button which made it hit me flat instead of knife edge first, and it ricocheted off my chest, flew 40 feet, and put a hole in a sheetmetal wall. I was left with a massive bruise on my chest in the shape of the cutter. To this day I have real concerns whenever I use a shaper. The impact was like getting kicked by a horse in the chest. It knocked the wind out of me and I couldn’t talk or breathe. The other cutter went into the table and left a nice gash in the solid steel table.

The button on the chest and the multiple layers of denim in the front pocket are why I’m still around to tell the story.

[Peter Quinn]

Be safe. No tool has the potential to put more cutter in the wood. I don't like push sticks, feels more like playing shuffle board than proper stock control. Feeders are great, feather boards, pressure boards, guards to keep something between your hands and a tragedy are advisable. Jigs with hold downs are essential for holding small parts, curved work, etc. Its a great tool, way better results than a router for most shaping operations, you really need to understand the forces at work and obey the rules. The aforementioned book and the Lonnie Byrd shaper book are good places to start for basic safety info and some good set up ideas. Enjoy it!

[Mike Cutler]

Wow, some scary incidents brought up in this thread!
I think were doing the OP, and others that might read this thread, a disservice by unconsciously steering them away from what can arguably be one of the most versatile and useful machines in a small home shop.
Of course you can get hurt on a shaper,as you can on other machines,but there are safe and effective ways to operate the machine that put your hands nowhere near the cutter head. If you're hands are within an unprotected hand's span from that cutter head, you need to stop and think about what you're getting ready to do, because there is another way to do it.
Push sticks are effective, but only when used in concert with other devices, such as vertical and horizontal guide boards. If a person is doing something that puts them at risk of a "kickback" on a shaper, something is definitely wrong with your body position and method.
Any machine can be unsafe when used improperly. Used properly, the shaper, or spindle moulder, is no more, or less, safe than any other machine in the shop.

[Mark Bolton]

I dont think anyone will be scared off a shaper any more than they would be scared off a table saw. A healthy dose of respect is never a bad thing. As the OP stated, most sane minded people who even get a small 3/4" spindle shaper are a bit taken back when they see a cutter whip up for the first time. I know I was. Then you get to 7" and larger cutters and you tend to stand there for a second as you ponder your sanity. There is a reason why its often one of the later tools added to small shops and a huge part of that is the expense of the machine, tooling, and feeder, but the other part is a healthy dose of fear.

[Jared Sankovich]

I dont think anyone will be scared off a shaper any more than they would be scared off a table saw. A healthy dose of respect is never a bad thing. As the OP stated, most sane minded people who even get a small 3/4" spindle shaper are a bit taken back when they see a cutter whip up for the first time. I know I was. Then you get to 7" and larger cutters and you tend to stand there for a second as you ponder your sanity. There is a reason why its often one of the later tools added to small shops and a huge part of that is the expense of the machine, tooling, and feeder, but the other part is a healthy dose of fear.

This.

I bought a shaper before I ever ran one, and I remember the wow factor from a "small" freud passage door set thay came with it the first time I fired it up.

Multiple larger shapers later i wouldn't be without one or two. I wonder to myself sometimes how people manage to run small Comercial one man sized cabinet shops without shapers and just router tables

[Leo Graywacz]

I have three 3HP Delta shapers. Keep a door setup on them. Cope, Stick and Panel cutter. I'd like a 4th in case I need to do some other shaper work. That way I don't have to break anything down. If I do break a setup it's almost always the panel cutter since it's the easiest to set back up.

My cope and stick setups are destructive so they joint the edge and remove a full 1/16" to clean up the sawed edge. So the fences have to be spot on for it not to put a curve on the pc or snipe on the ends.

[Jared Sankovich]

I have three 3HP Delta shapers. Keep a door setup on them. Cope, Stick and Panel cutter. I'd like a 4th in case I need to do some other shaper work. That way I don't have to break anything down. If I do break a setup it's almost always the panel cutter since it's the easiest to set back up.

My cope and stick setups are destructive so they joint the edge and remove a full 1/16" to clean up the sawed edge. So the fences have to be spot on for it not to put a curve on the pc or snipe on the ends.

Any reason you aren't running the sticking against a outboard fence. It really simplifies setup of a full profile cut

https://youtu.be/RwkGUsIvll0

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Wow, some scary incidents brought up in this thread!
I think were doing the OP, and others that might read this thread, a disservice by unconsciously steering them away from what can arguably be one of the most versatile and useful machines in a small home shop.
Of course you can get hurt on a shaper,as you can on other machines,but there are safe and effective ways to operate the machine that put your hands nowhere near the cutter head. If you're hands are within an unprotected hand's span from that cutter head, you need to stop and think about what you're getting ready to do, because there is another way to do it.
Push sticks are effective, but only when used in concert with other devices, such as vertical and horizontal guide boards. If a person is doing something that puts them at risk of a "kickback" on a shaper, something is definitely wrong with your body position and method.
Any machine can be unsafe when used improperly. Used properly, the shaper, or spindle moulder, is no more, or less, safe than any other machine in the shop.

I re-read my post and I should have mentioned that a shaper is an awesome tool to have in the shop, and for a small shop or hobbyist it would be a game changer. For a professional shop get two or three! Just give it the respect it deserves.

[lowell holmes]

This is not a push stick.

https://www.google.com/search?q=diy+table+saw+push+blocks&oq=table+saw+puh+blocks&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l4.13303j1j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[J.R. Rutter]

This is not a push stick.

https://www.google.com/search?q=diy+table+saw+push+blocks&oq=table+saw+puh+blocks&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l4.13303j1j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

LOL, you ARE a bot...

[Mark Bolton]

LOL, you ARE a bot...

HAH.. with 6500 posts you may be right...

[Cary Falk]

Out of all my stationary power tools, I still pucker a little when I turn on my 5hp shaper.

[rudy de haas]

I couldn't agree more with the O.P. I had no shaper experience when I bought mine -claimed to be a 3HP but looked and felt like a 5+. Treated sensibly they're not that dangerous, but a panel cutter spinning around at 9000 RPM can be more than a bit intimidating - it looked capable of throwing a piece of heavy jatoba through the shop wall, across the street, and through my neighbor's house. Never did, but...

[Mark Bolton]

I couldn't agree more with the O.P. I had no shaper experience when I bought mine -claimed to be a 3HP but looked and felt like a 5+. Treated sensibly they're not that dangerous, but a panel cutter spinning around at 9000 RPM can be more than a bit intimidating - it looked capable of throwing a piece of heavy jatoba through the shop wall, across the street, and through my neighbor's house. Never did, but...

9K Rpm? Zoikes. What cutter is that? I need it.

[Mel Fulks]

I don't understand Mark,or Rudy. Plenty are used at 10,000,or more. What am I missing?

[brent stanley]

9K Rpm? Zoikes. What cutter is that? I need it.

Probably small diameter, brazed stuff. Grizzly, 3/4" bore brazed stuff is 11000 etc.

[Mark Bolton]

I have some 10k rpm panel raisers . Are you saying that in the context of this thread a 10k rpm panel raiser is normal? If that's the case I'm missing something. A lot of small spindle machines wont even hit 10k and at least in my experience to hit 10k inset or Brazed on a panel raiser your talking money. I'm not talking about the time we worked in a shop enjoying someone else's checkbook. I'm talking about your own machine, your own tooling, and your (and your wife and childrens) checkbook lol.

[Leo Graywacz]

Pretty much all I use is brazed tooling for shapers. And I have several panel cutters and used them at 7 and 10K

[Mark Bolton]

That was kinda my point. 7k and 10k are a super wide spread for large diameter anything. Most of my larger brazed is rated closer to 7k and some higher dollar large diameter aluminum insert panel raisers are 10k. 3k rpm spread in that range on a shaper to me is the difference between Ford mustang and Ferrari pricing.

[brent stanley]

My big one is 235mm diameter and maxes out at 6000rpm, but the smaller one is 165mm and will go up to 7500RPM.

[Mike Cutler]

I have some 10k rpm panel raisers . Are you saying that in the context of this thread a 10k rpm panel raiser is normal? If that's the case I'm missing something. A lot of small spindle machines wont even hit 10k and at least in my experience to hit 10k inset or Brazed on a panel raiser your talking money. I'm not talking about the time we worked in a shop enjoying someone else's checkbook. I'm talking about your own machine, your own tooling, and your (and your wife and childrens) checkbook lol.

Mark
No, I don't think you're missing anything. Those/these, cutters are 100mm cutters, maybe 115mm. Small by commercial standards.
I have some Amana groovers, and they're 100mm dia, The Freeborn and Bosch cabinet sets I have are just over 75mm dia. I have a bunch of profile cutters at 55-60mm.dia. The Amana reversible glue joint I have is probably 60-65mm. Theses are all brazed and top out 9K-10Krpm max.
The panel raisers I have are 115-120mm, and those are definitely not spinning at 10K.I run them at 7K. Generally my machine is set to run at 7K. It only has two speeds, 7K and 10K rpm.
I think that's about all my shaper, 3HP Delta 43-375, can be expected to handle. Anything bigger, or heavier, is going to have be aluminum.If it's steel, that's a lot of rotating mass, which is going to wear out those light duty spindle bearing prematurely.

[Leo Graywacz]

Mass isn't going to wear out the spindle bearings. Not being in perfect balance will though.