Scraping Plane

[lowell holmes]

I just saw the Lee Valley scraping plane on line.

Do any if you have one, if so what does it do for you?

[Tom Trees]

If you set the cap iron as below, then I fail to see a use for it.
http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/download/file.php?id=3619http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/download/file.php?id=3620



Then again I'm just a novice, but have never seen an application where a hand plane couldn't do the job.
Hoping someone can chime in?

Tom

[Rob Luter]

I had a Stanley #112. Never used it. Sold it. Don't miss it.

[john zulu]

I own one. It is used for interlocking grain. I work mostly on tropical wood as I am from Malaysia. Western wood I gather not so much.

[Don Peters]

Lowell,

I have one. I also have a Stanley #80 and Bob Page’s rendition of Paul Hamler’s scraper insert. I have a multitude of irons for each of them ranging from 3/32” thick O1 down to 1/32” thick 1095 spring steel. I’ve spent countless hours trying various sharpening schemes, angles and burnishers with sometimes widely varying results. It’s a fine and pleasant misery.

The Stanley #80 is the most difficult to setup no matter which blade I use or how I sharpen it. It’s got to be my technique or lack thereof, but it’s hit or miss at best. Most of the problem is chatter, and I’ve never been able to figure out why. Of the three planes it’s the only one without an adjustable incidence angle. It spends most of it’s time on the shelf. BTW, Veritas makes a very similar looking tool, although with somewhat different geometry, but I’ve never used one.

The Hamler insert as made by Bob Page (Loon Lake Tool Works) is designed to fit in most of the wider Stanley planes that will accommodate 2 3/8” wide irons. It’s a bolt-in - remove the Stanley frog and use the same screws to install the insert. It’s not cheap, although it’s nicely rendered in the same league as Veritas or Lie-Nielsen. It doesn’t come with an adjustment screw to flex the blade, so I added one; it’s marginally useful. Like the Veritas it is adjustable for incidence angle using a thumb wheel. An aside: Paul Hamler figured out that you only need the aft thumb wheel. You can replace the forward one with a spring from the hardwire store, and the resultant setup is much less fiddly.

I’ve used my Page/Hamler insert in a Stanley #7 which is much longer than necessary. It’s currently in a late version of a #6, and that’s more useful; a late version of a #5 1/2 might be ideal. It’s supplied with a 1/32” 1095 spring steel iron that cuts nicely, but shrieks to high heaven when doing so. Derek has commented on this in another thread. I’ve also used a 1/16” Hock iron with similar cutting performance, but without the noise. This tool is quite good for removing tool marks from the edges of boards as well as scraping panels flat without tearing out interlocked grain. But it’s not fast. A very fine cut from a 55º smooth plane is three times thicker, so go there first. You’re removing around .001” per pass with a scraper plane. It’s about as slow as using a card scraper, but you don’t dig ditches so the panel stays flat, and your fingers don’t get burnt.

Now to the Veritas. Like all things Veritas it is beautifully made and finished. It’s about the same weight and length as a smooth plane. The iron is wider at 3 7/8”. As a result of that width, it’s very stable, although you don’t get much benefit from the wider iron since you’re still taking a pretty narrow shaving. I suspect they made it wide so you could actually flex their stiffer blades with the integrated adjustment screw, although it’s not as effective on the thicker blades.

It’s supplied with a .055” iron, and a thicker one is available. I’ve tried thinner ones with the accompanying screeching mentioned above. I like Ron Hock’s 1/16” iron best. His irons are harder than any of the others. You can actually crack the edge when burnishing if you bear down too hard; so don’t do that, and they’re excellent. The incidence angle is adjustable similar to the Hamler, so it’s pretty easy to tune especially if you add the spring and ditch the forward thumb screw. Overall it’s a bit fussier to setup, and it cuts about the same thin see-through shaving as the Loon Lake variant.

In my own use, these tools deliver the first stage of finishing especially when dealing with difficult grain. Many would move on straight to sanding. However scraper planes can deliver a surface that’s better looking and near finish-ready if you’re careful, while avoiding three to four grits of sanding. You may still benefit from raising the grain and cutting back to 220 or above by hand after you’ve scraped it though. But go in with your eyes open because the learning curve was steeper than most hand tools for me, and I don’t think I’m quite there yet.

Don Peters

[Christopher Charles]

I have the LV scraper b/c I found it here for a 'good deal' and before I really knew what I was doing. It is typical LV quality. I do use it, but almost exclusively with their toothing blade on marquetry panels, which I then hand scrape. In that respect, it is perhaps the finest toothing plane available, but frankly is overkill.

While I don't really use it for scraping, there are several good videos on adjusting a scraping plane, including one by LV I believe. These were real time-savers, as setting the angle and then depth is key to getting them dialed in. Good luck and have fun!

[Stephen Rosenthal]

No experience with LV, but I've got the large and small LN scraper planes. I used to use the large one a lot, but now that most of my projects are on the smallish size, I find myself turning to the small scraper and a LV cabinet scraper. I had a steep trial and error (emphasis on error) learning curve with all three tools, but I've used them enough to finally get the hang of the setup and technique. The LN scraping plane video is a good introduction, but even watching it numerous times didn't speed up my ability to use them. I don't use card scrapers and only sand when absolutely necessary, so I rely on my scrapers a lot.

[Tom Trees]

Thanks Christopher for giving me an example of a valid use for my no.80 scraper plane.
It will be redundant for a long time yet so :)
I must ask where or how you got that toothing pattern on a card of tool steel.

Tom

[Mike Allen1010]

Interesting thread as it deals with one of the fundamental issues in hand tool woodworking – how do you handle difficult grain, Particularly when hand planed surfaces are your standard?

For me figured wood with swirling/reversing grain, Like what often occurs around branches/knot holes etc. is an interesting design tool, but significant challenge in executing a smooth finish.

My observation is early american masters, whose furniture is in museums today, avoiding this issue almost entirely by selecting clear, straight grain stock. There’s probably a lesson or contemporary and a woodworkers there.

[Christopher Charles]

Tom,

Was easy, I ordered one :) I have the toothed scraper plane blade (25 tpi), but looks like they also make others:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=72096&cat=41182,43698&ap=1

Mike, I agree about the straight grain and suspect marquetry/inlay was about it. And glad we don't have to use shark skin anymore!

[Mike Allen1010]

Sorry, my previous comments were posted prematurely Dash my bad.

I Like to build projects with figured, interlocking grain woods routinely. I have the Stanley and Lie Nielsen scraping plane. Although I’m able to use them effectively with relatively straight grain timbers to get a final finished surface, they’re not my first choice for highly figured Wood. I prefer a card scraper because it allows workings in multiple directions to follow the changing grain around the feature to get the smoothest surface.

Routinely, my biggest mistakes are attempting to plane difficult grain. Even with super sharp, high angle planes I often get epic tear out that’s extremely difficult to correct. FWIW, My suggestion is:

1) Make a real effort to select straight grained, relatively soft, hand tool friendly domestic Hardwoods for the majority of your projects. There is a reason why all the Townsend and Seymour masterpieces fit this model.

2) If you want to use exotic figure/grain pattern for design reasons, consider using veneer - no need to worry about planing surfaces, 600 grit sandpaper does the job.

3) If you decide on solid wood construction with difficult grain, try to avoid epic tear out planning against the grain and rely on card scraper and sandpaper to achieve your finished surface. Just my experience, YMMV

[Christopher Charles]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for you clarification--it is important for me to note that I use the toothing plane only on shop-sawn veneers a skosh under 1/8" thick. A toothing plane would be death for commercial veneers!

That said, I have had success with wildly figured areas using a toothing plane to level and then a hand scraper too.

Best,
Chris

[Will Blick]

> It’s a fine and pleasant misery.

Wow, thats me!! Solving problems, I often wonder why I did not avoid it to start with!! Maybe its an attempt to make a tool work? I think so!

Great thread. Scraper planes are a limited use tool for most ww. I have the LV, as others have said, rock solid. I only use it when I am working with accent woods, mostly burls. Sometimes, its the only plane that works, but, as mentioned, its not plug n play.
You must tweak the plane a lot to get success... way more finiky than a standard plane. When you get it just right, the finish is more burnished, glass like... sanding could achieve the same, but u would have to grit up to 400-600. If u are flatening and going for a super fine finish, starting with sanding will eat through a lot more of the wood...sometimes not an issue, based on wood / veneer thickness.

Sometimes you have to pick your strategy carefully....which takes experience. We all keep learning ;)

BTW, I also will use it on end grain, carefully. This is to burnish the end grain, so it does NOT absorb so much finish. Too much absorption is a common issue wiht end grain...with some woods, the end grains darkens too much due to high absorption. Burnishing the endgrain greatly reduces absorption. I should do this more often, specially with lighter woods such as Maple and Ash.

[Osvaldo Cristo]

I have a 90 degrees iron for my LN Jack plane. It works fine for the few occasions I needed it when preparing very difficult piece of wood.

That combo is my scrap plane.

[Robert Engel]

I mainly use it when I have to do a lot of scraping and I know card scraper will be hard on my wrists and fingers.

Plus, the burr seems to last longer.

It also excels at removing old finish.

[david charlesworth]

The main use for scraper planes, is the safe clean up of veneered panels.

The scraper plane is much less likely to pull out a chunk where there are blisters.

David Charlesworth