Should I buy my wireless router

[dennis thompson]

Verizon charges me $12/month for my wireless router, I can buy one for about $100. The question is: can I, who know next to nothing about computers, install the new one myself?
Thanks

[Tom M King]

New password will be on the back of the new router. You can change it to something else. Other than that, plug, and play. You can get pretty good ones for less than $100, but in any case, even the 69 dollar ones will be better than they one costing you 10 or 12 bucks a month.

[Günter VögelBerg]

Is it just for the router or is it for the router and the modem? If your ISP requires you to "rent" their modem there may not be a lot you can do. If it is just the router then go on amazon and buy one.

[James Tibbetts]

I got a used one from ebay for $15.00. Still using it 2 years later. Check there too.

[Lee Schierer]

I have Verizon DSL and only have their modem. I use my own router.

[Jim Becker]

If you are on FiOS, you can buy your own router. If you have TV with STBs, you still need the VZ gateway, but you can purchase it new from Verizon or used from a third party to avoid the monthly rental. However, if you buy used, you need to be absolutely sure it has Verizon firmware (software) on it and not Frontier firmware, even if it says Verizon on the case. When VZ sold off a bunch of territories to Frontier, Frontier created their own firmware and once it's installed on the gateway, there's no going back to VZ firmware.

If you have Verizon DSL, you can use your own devices, too.

[Andrew Seemann]

Also, you may need to call Verizon and have them do some magic on their side so they recognize the router. That is at least what the Mediacom people told me when I asked about getting my own modem. I already had the router and wifi disabled on their modem-wifi-router combo because I use my own router/firewall widget and have my own wifi transmitters.

[Ole Anderson]

I had a pretty good Arris router/modem from Comcast that was costing me $13 per month. I was getting nearly 200 mbps on the wifi. In July I replaced it with a Netgear Nighthawk dual band AC1900 that performs as well. I got it from BestBuy, internet order, for $176. It is not on Comcast's approved list, but BestBuy said it will work with most major providers including Comcast. It will be paid for in less than 14 months. Plug and play.

[William Chain]

Short answer - yes. You'll save $144/year on your bill.

Long answer - if you are on Verizon FIOS, take a look in your basement at the Verizon panel, the one that beeps every few years to replace the giant backup battery inside (tip: amazon that battery for $12 instead of the $65+ that verizon wants for it). You'll find that box has a coax cable connection for your FIOS boxes and your modem, and it has a Cat-6 connector. You can simply run a Cat-6 wire up to a hub (and thus can wire to any room you like) or to a wireless router. No need for FIOS hardware at all, and the Cat-6 connection is faster than the coax run to the modem. You do not need any special modem at all if you use the Cat-6 connection. All that hardware is the FIOS panel, the modem is actually redundant.

[Jim Becker]

Also, you may need to call Verizon and have them do some magic on their side so they recognize the router.
Not required with FiOS. Worse case, there is a short delay to get the public IP address if one forgets to release the IP on the previous gateway router. FiOS doesn't use a "Modem"...it's a fiber optic service to the home and there is an Ethernet connection from the optical network termination box to the router.

----
William, VZ hasn't had a battery backup for the ONT for awhile now and no longer has replacements for those on older ONTs. A small UPS is the preferred replacement, but it's true that one can get a replacement battery from Amazon as you state.

[Curt Harms]

Also, you may need to call Verizon and have them do some magic on their side so they recognize the router. That is at least what the Mediacom people told me when I asked about getting my own modem.

Not in my experience. Verizon seems to use pretty standards compliant hardware. Plug it in and it works. I did away with Verizon routers and set top boxes, replacing them with TiVO. The only rental I have from Verizon is the Cable Card, that's unavoidable for TV as far as I can tell. Verizon uses something called MoCA which I've found very useful. I did have to enable the ethernet port on the ONT (optical network terminal - black box with a bunch of lights). Then I bought a pair of these:

https://www.amazon.com/Motorola-Adapter-Ethernet-2-Pack-MM1002/dp/B078HMDDVS/ref=sr_1_3?crid=GHSDCH0X8320&keywords=moca+adapter&qid=1568984160&s=gateway&sprefix=MoCA%2Caps%2C144&sr=8-3

It uses existing RG6 coax for ethernet so I now have pretty fast ethernet at each cable TV outlet. The second Motorola adapter feeds a switch that has my desktop PC and other ethernet connected stuff. I'm not a fan of WiFi where's a practical alternative. It's worked out well for me and I figured the payback vs. rented Verizon stuff was less than 3 years. Of course if the stuff breaks it's on me vs. swapping out the device with Verizon but that's part of the calculation.

[William Chain]

Not required with FiOS. Worse case, there is a short delay to get the public IP address if one forgets to release the IP on the previous gateway router. FiOS doesn't use a "Modem"...it's a fiber optic service to the home and there is an Ethernet connection from the optical network termination box to the router.

The black box they rent you for $12 is a wireless access point that will accept the coax connection from the ONT. Correct, it is not a modem, but that doesn't stop them from calling it that when you order up your service. It is preferable to avoid the coax and use the Cat-6 ethernet connection at the ONT.


William, VZ hasn't had a battery backup for the ONT for awhile now and no longer has replacements for those on older ONTs. A small UPS is the preferred replacement, but it's true that one can get a replacement battery from Amazon as you state.

Ok. Not everyone has a spankin' new ONT, and those older ones use the batteries. Who knows what the OP has.

[Michael Weber]

After reading the replies if Dennis wasn't confused before he probably is now:rolleyes:

[dennis thompson]

After reading the replies if Dennis wasn't confused before he probably is now:rolleyes:

As I was reading this, that is Exactly what I was thinking😊

[William Chain]

The bottom line sir is that you do not need that $12 item. They rip you on that. All you need is a $5 wire and a wireless access point of your choice.


As I was reading this, that is Exactly what I was thinking

[Jerome Stanek]

As I was reading this, that is Exactly what I was thinking

Is this just internet that you get from them or is it a bundle with voice that goes through it.

[Lee Schierer]

Also, you may need to call Verizon and have them do some magic on their side so they recognize the router.

I didn't have to do that with our new router with verizon DSL.

[dennis thompson]

Is this just internet that you get from them or is it a bundle with voice that goes through it.

its a bundle, internet,phone, TV

[Jim Becker]

The black box they rent you for $12 is a wireless access point that will accept the coax connection from the ONT. Correct, it is not a modem, but that doesn't stop them from calling it that when you order up your service. It is preferable to avoid the coax and use the Cat-6 ethernet connection at the ONT.

VZ no longer uses COAX between the ONT and the router for installs, but for speeds under 100 mpbs, COAX via MOCA is supported for existing customers with older setups. The black box you mention, which they call a gateway, is a layer 3 router with an integrated wireless access point. I've never heard or seen VZ personnel refer to it as a "modem"...only consumers because that's what they are used to from DSL or cable Internet services. There are heated arguments about this very thing in the communication focused forums. But no matter...the device in question can be rented or owned. Folks with Internet-only FiOS can pretty much use any router they choose to use. The VZ gateway is only required for TV subscribers who want to use set top boxes and have access to the guide as well as for certain specific mobility features. There are a few people with extensive networking experience who have found ways around some of that, but not all, especially with FiOS One.

I personally just use an older Actiontec Rev-I for the primary router and a Velops mesh system with four nodes to provide wireless to our property. No set top boxes, but we do have Local TV because there are issues with a few stations for OTA reception including the one I watch in the morning for news. We still have a phone number, but its value is deprecated since we all have wireless numbers...and now that I've switched alarm companies, the "land line" will go away in a month or three once I renegotiate our FiOS service.


Not everyone has a spankin' new ONT, and those older ones use the batteries. Who knows what the OP has.

True. While there are indeed some of the older ONTs still out there and in use, the number has dwindled considerably due to failure replacements as well as replacements when accounts turn over or when someone requests conversion to higher speeds. The last one I had with the battery backup feature) went bye-bye about three years ago and it was actually the second ONT. The first one was BPON and also fried itself one day. For that older one, the BBU was a completely separate component. The second one was the Alcatel/Lucent unit with the internal battery. I went through three batteries but already had everything on a UPS because the VZ provided backup only supported phone; not Internet or TV. For a short period of time a few years ago, they were providing battery backup with a pack of D-cell batteries, believe it or not, rather than the nice rechargeable setups that came before it.

[Jim Becker]

The bottom line sir is that you do not need that $12 item. They rip you on that. All you need is a $5 wire and a wireless access point of your choice.

A FiOS subscriber needs more than just a "wireless access point". They need a router to connect to the service (layer 3). If it also has an integrated wireless access point, as many do, great. But the router is not optional. The source of the router, however, is. It can be rented from VZ or purchased by the consumer. For long term use, purchase is more cost effective for sure.

[Larry Frank]

I hope someone understands some of the comments in this thread but they are above me and many. Some want relatively easy solutions that we can implement.

The OP said that he is not good with computers. Some of us need a translator for the replies.

[Jim Becker]

Here's the simplest answer to the OP's question: No, you are not required to rent the VZ gateway. You can purchase your own, either new from Verizon or used from a third party, but one must be careful when buying used to insure that the software is Verizons and not Frontier's. If you don't have TV, you can buy any router you want. If you do have TV, you generally need the VZ gateway, new or used, because it's require for certain TV functions and features.

[Curt Harms]

Here's the simplest answer to the OP's question: No, you are not required to rent the VZ gateway. You can purchase your own, either new from Verizon or used from a third party, but one must be careful when buying used to insure that the software is Verizons and not Frontier's. If you don't have TV, you can buy any router you want. If you do have TV, you generally need the VZ gateway, new or used, because it's require for certain TV functions and features.

True about the VZN/Frontier firmware. I bought a router off Ebay like that, was able to return it zero cost. The seller claimed Verizon firmware therefore misrepresented. Another possible source of confusion in this thread - Verizon offers 2 services, FiOS and DSL. They're very different beasties.

[Chuck Wintle]

Verizon charges me $12/month for my wireless router, I can buy one for about $100. The question is: can I, who know next to nothing about computers, install the new one myself?
Thanks

yes buy it and they are easy to install or ask some teenager for help.

[Andrew Seemann]

I didn't have to do that with our new router with verizon DSL.

You wouldn't likely need to do it with a DSL modem, since it is a Dedicated Service Line, they know that internet is supposed to go down that phone line and it is controlled at the switching station. On a cable modem, all the modems hook up to the main cable line, and the cable company needs to know the modem's address to allow traffic to go through it.

Also note that a modem and a router aren't the same thing, even though they frequently are packaged together. The modem allows you to access the interweb via cable, DSL, phone line, satellite, etc, It allows your Local Area Network (LAN) to talk to the service provider's Wide Area Network (WAN). A router gives the devices on your side unique (to you) addresses so that more than one device can talk to your modem. It is often (but not always) combined with a switch (hard wired and or wifi) that allows the devices to physically or wifi-edly talk to the router.

In my home network, the modem, router, switches, and wifi transmitter are all separate devices. My security-paranoid computer-nerd brother-in-law designed it. The additional non-security benefit is that it allowed me to use better and faster components than the all-in-one device from the cable company, which quickly got overwhelmed by 3 kids and a Netflix addicted wife:)

[Rich Engelhardt]

Nothing technical here to confuse anyone......

Just be sure to get it in writing if/when you turn back the Verizon equipment & put that written proof somewhere you can lay your hands on it in years to come.
my cable modem went out once & rather than wait a week for Roadrunner to generate a service call to come out and tell me it was fried & order up a new one, I went out and bought my own Toshiba. Years later when I dumped Roadrunner, they billed me $199 for the cable modem I failed to return. (the fried one they said they didn't want at the time). I had to give them the Toshiba I'd paid for to shut them up.

[Rick Potter]

I am in the same situation as the OP. We have Fios for internet and phone, no TV. My adult grand daughter just ordered that Nighthawk to replace the Verizon/Frontier router, and we have been trying to find where the modem is. Apparently we don't have one, which sounds good to me.

We do have the battery backup thingie in the garage behind some shelving. It has been beeping for a couple years now, and Frontier came out and said it needed a new battery, and ordered one for us, with no charge. Naturally it was on our bill the next month, and we got them to remove it because it never came. After much discussion they removed the charge. It came the next day, and is still sitting in the box waiting for them to install it. Waiting over two years so far.

They told us the battery was a backup, in case the power goes out. The longest the power has gone out in the 14 years we have lived here is a couple hours, and I figure we can do without fios for that long. It still beeps occasionally though.

We are supposed to have a speed of 200+ here, yesterday the GD checked and it was 82. Hope the Nighthawk helps, because both the Daughter and grand daughter tutor dyslexic kids both here and on line.

[Ole Anderson]

We are supposed to have a speed of 200+ here, yesterday the GD checked and it was 82. Hope the Nighthawk helps, because both the Daughter and grand daughter tutor dyslexic kids both here and on line. Whenever my speed seems to drop, I just power cycle the equipment and that seems to help. although I just did a speedtest and was getting speeds that I am paying for. And that was on WiFi, not ethernet cable. 180 down, 23 up. But I have Comcast over copper. https://www.speedtest.net/result/8623666379.png

[Jim Becker]

Rick, the battery backup uint for the ONT (optical network termination box) only provides power to the phone line, anyway. If you want the beeping to go away, just install the battery. It doesn't take a technician to do that and is normally considered a customer maintenance item.

[Rick Potter]

Thanks, Jim


Good info, as I did not know it was for the phone only, and not the computer. They installed it in a ridiculous location, behind some large shelving units, and when they wanted to check it the first time, the whole mess had to be moved.

I know I can replace it, but so far I have had no need to go to all the trouble. I would get rid of the land line, but need a phone number to use that does not go to my cell phone. Telemarketers, etc.

[dennis thompson]

I spoke to Verizon today and they said since I have fios tv I need to use their router. I can buy it for $200, I 'm thinking about it, one concern, given how fast technology changes, is what do I do when this router becomes obsolete?

[Jim Becker]

They are actually about to introduce a new version of the gateway, Dennis, but it's been slow in coming. That said, the G1100 is a good router for most folks' use and it's not going to be "obsolete" anytime soon. I'm still using the previous version as my gateway (only for routing, not for wireless) and it's just fine and very reliable. Which means mine is, oh...about 6 years old and not needing replacement anytime soon. Some current TV features do require the newer device, but I don't use them. I have no set top boxes; only "Local TV" tuned directly by our TVs.

[Curt Harms]

I spoke to Verizon today and they said since I have fios tv I need to use their router. I can buy it for $200, I 'm thinking about it, one concern, given how fast technology changes, is what do I do when this router becomes obsolete?

Like Jim says, you don't need a Verizon gateway if you don't have Verizon TV. As far as obsolescence, the usual limitation is manufacturer support. The software that controls various device functions inevitably contains flaws. Significant flaws are fixed by the manufacturer as they're discovered but once a model is discontinued support for that model is also discontinued after some period of time. There could be security exploits that use those unpatched flaws. There are 3rd party firmwares that replace the no-longer-supported manufacturer firmware but that gets a bit techy.

[Jim Becker]

There are 3rd party firmwares that replace the no-longer-supported manufacturer firmware but that gets a bit techy.
Unfortunately, there are, as far as I know, no third party firmware solutions for the VZ Gateways...they are locked down.

[Curt Harms]

Unfortunately, there are, as far as I know, no third party firmware solutions for the VZ Gateways...they are locked down.
At one time you could find 3rd party firmware for the older VZ routers -- if you didn't care about MoCA function. I seem to recall the SDK for the MoCA chip used in the pre G1100 routers was around $300,000.:eek:

[Jim Becker]

I don't recall if there was anything for the Actiontec devices...perhaps there was. I've actually been using a Rev-I for a long time now (the last release of that unit before the G1100 took its place), but it's going back to VZ. 'Did the "cord cutting" thing this week to just Internet and they actually want the old router back that was a replacement of a replacement and "free". No problem. They can have it. :)

[Osvaldo Cristo]

Verizon charges me $12/month for my wireless router, I can buy one for about $100. The question is: can I, who know next to nothing about computers, install the new one myself?
Thanks

From economic POV it looks to own your router is the best bid until you have some problem when you need a professional's help.

As stated previously it very easy to setup and maintain a router as they did not demand an expert level to use them at typical applications but I suggest to go to your own router only if you can count with second level support from a friend, neighbor or relative with more skills on the subject, just in case...

[Jim Becker]

Osvaldo, if he buys the VZ router (which he can do, either new or used) he's going to have exactly the same support from Verizon as he would with a rental. In fact, folks who own their own routers that are different cannot get the same level of support from Verizon...they will not troubleshoot beyond the ONT (optical interface) unless the customer has the G1100 or the previous Actiontec Rev I.