Tablesaw dust collection hood

[Carl Beckett]

Well, after a weekend working with black walnut I have GOT to improve my tablesaw dust collection. Which means time to put the blade guard/collection hood at the top of the project list.

The support arm will be home made. The guard/hood can be either home made or purchased, but since I want to get back to woodworking I would prefer purchasing. The hose will be 4" at the hood, then going to 6" with one 90 degree turn before going into the Clearvue 5hp. In parallel with the 4" line will be another 4" line going to underneath the blade (a MM CU300 Smart combo). I have the underneath ports hooked up now and they are woefully inadequate, dust flys off the top of the blade like crazy.

So what does everyone like or not like about their blade guard/collection hood?

I see a lot of different designs out there, some have wheels on the front. Some are big and wide, some are smaller. How much of a nuisance is it to line up a close cut with the blade edge? Or measure for a fence stop to the blade? Any good ones that make it easy to swing it out of the way at times?

[Jim Becker]

Carl, you probably should up your drop to the cabinet to a 5" since it's most likely a 120mm port on there, although things funnel down at the blade guard out of physical necessity.

For an overhead/overarm collection setup, you will want both up/down adjustment and side-to-side adjustment so you can insure no interference with the fence if you happen to have it in the raised position for narrow rips using the fence. (I do most ripping with the fence in the low mode which give greater clearance for the push stick/shoe, etc. The same lateral adjustment will be helpful when ripping with a Frits/Franz jig or other parallel ripping method.

Obviously, you want a collection hood made of clear material. If you are building your own, use Lexan, not Plexiglas. The former doesn't shatter; the latter does. You can weld it together using MEK. (Take great care with personal protection when using this solvent) I do not personally feel there is any need for any kind of rollers, etc...in fact, the hood shouldn't come in contact with the material.

I currently only have the riving knife mounted hood for my S315WS and as a result, it almost never gets used. One of these day's I'll rectify that...

[Ole Anderson]

The standard seems to be Shark Guard. They go up to a 4" hose connection, although I have a 3" which seems much less unweildly. http://www.thesharkguard.com/

[Frank Pratt]

The standard seems to be Shark Guard. They go up to a 4" hose connection, although I have a 3" which seems much less unweildly. http://www.thesharkguard.com/

Ole, I'm interested in your insert. Did you drill the holes it it, and how well does that contribute to dust collection when just shaving the edge off a board?

I have the SawStop guard with a 2.5" flex connecting it to an overhead duct. The hose is never in the way & there is plenty of airflow to collect the dust. The exception being when removing less than a blade width from a board. Then dust squirts out the left side. Hence my question to Ole.

[Patrick Kane]

I have a bit of experience with a couple different overarm guards ranging from an Excalibur on a unisaw for years, the Felder optional guard, and a shark guard on my PM72. Of the three, my favorite is the Felder. No surprises there, i think that option on the 700 series is/was like $1000+. Its very well built, adjusts in elevation precisely and smoothly, and it slides out of the way when needed. The collection is good with a 100mm connection(i use a 4" flex hose to it). As far as Excalibur versus Sharkguard, the sharkguard with 4" port is very good at picking up dust. The guard itself isnt comparable to Felder or Excalibur in its construction. It is a little flimsy, and i find myself gingerly lifting up the front end when ripping thicker stock. I just feel like im going to break the guard. But, for an older saw retrofit, its very nice o have a smaller splitter with a compact guard and DC. For the price, the shark guard is a nice unit. Finally, the exclaibur is a lesser version of the felder, but its still nice. lifts up nicely for thicker material, and slides out of the way when not needed. The DC on my unit was 4' at the tube end down to maybe 2.5" at the blade? It wasnt stellar. I have a 3hp cyclone, and there is a very large diference between the old Excalibur and the shark guard, and it all comes down to the size of the port.

If you have the money and want to keep your saw for life, maybe see if you can mod the Felder overarm guard to the minimax? Does SCMI make a overarm guard?

[Dick Mahany]

A 4" port above the table is an excellent idea. I had a 5" port for my Unisaw cabinet and kept it at 5". The two ports together worked great. I built two different "Shark" style polycarbonate guards from an online template that Lee Styron offered many years ago. They worked extremely well. One was hinged from the splitter and the other one was attached to an overhead parallelogram type lift. I used both depending on what I was working on.

416413

[Carl Beckett]

Fantastic guidance, thanks to all.

I see in the pic that Dick posted the riving knife mounted guard is quite a bit more narrow than the parallelogram style.

I guess the idea is to just create a space over the blade to get some airflow through, and all the dust gets sucked into that airstream. So as long as the velocity stays up there is no downside to a larger guard?

My first thinking was that a larger guard would get in the way more, but from what I am hearing it should never touch the workpiece so just floats above everything. Wider would mean less dust escapes?

At this stage this is a 'go do', do not overthink, and upgrade it later if it is no good.

[Carl Beckett]

Carl, you probably should up your drop to the cabinet to a 5" since it's most likely a 120mm port on there, although things funnel down at the blade guard out of physical necessity.



Yes. And internal to the saw there is flex hose that squeezes down before reaching the lower shroud below the blade. So some restriction there as well.

I will try some airflow improvements.

Also not the saw has a riving knife mounted guard that came with it. It is quite narrow, and 2.5" port - did not do a very good job of it to be honest, so needing something more.

I see that sharkguard mounts to the riving knife. On their website they show an example hooked to a 4" hose, which seems attractive. But I have the riving knife off the saw fairly regularly... was leaning towards the overhead mount. Has anyone mounted it via overhead?

[Dick Mahany]

Fantastic guidance, thanks to all.

I see in the pic that Dick posted the riving knife mounted guard is quite a bit more narrow than the parallelogram style.

I guess the idea is to just create a space over the blade to get some airflow through, and all the dust gets sucked into that airstream. So as long as the velocity stays up there is no downside to a larger guard?

My first thinking was that a larger guard would get in the way more, but from what I am hearing it should never touch the workpiece so just floats above everything. Wider would mean less dust escapes?

At this stage this is a 'go do', do not overthink, and upgrade it later if it is no good.

Since the wider one is suspended from above it needs to accommodate all tilt angles of the blade, whereas the splitter mounted version will tilt with the blade. They worked equally well in my experience. The wide one has the advantage that it doesn't require removal for non-through dado cuts. It was a little more difficult to set up as my saw was on a mobile base and the guard mount was suspended overhead. The splitter mounted guard could travel along with the saw no matter where in the shop I moved the saw.

[Tom M King]

I bought an Exaktor, and have no complaints with it. One of the reasons I bought it was because of the 4" duct size. I think it's been in use for about ten years, and we've had no problems with it. It swings completely out of the way easily.
http://www.exaktortools.com/exoa.htm

[Mike Kees]

I have a Sharkguard on my Unisaw. mine has the 3'' dust port,if i was doing it again I would go with 2.5''. Usually I have to keep the blast gate half closed or it sucks up small off cuts. No dust escapes on internal cuts,however skimming cuts on edges some comes out. I also own a Felder K700 with the overarm guard,mine has a 3'' connection and works well but not excellent. the adjustability of the guard is excellent,but the dust capture is merely good not great.

[Jim Andrew]

I got the first 4" shark guard Lee built. My Hammer saw comes with a 2", and the truth is I can not tell the difference in the way they work. The Hammer sucks up thin strips, and the Shark will suck up blocks off the table saw. My DC is a 3hp.

[Ole Anderson]

Ole, I'm interested in your insert. Did you drill the holes it it, and how well does that contribute to dust collection when just shaving the edge off a board?

I have the SawStop guard with a 2.5" flex connecting it to an overhead duct. The hose is never in the way & there is plenty of airflow to collect the dust. The exception being when removing less than a blade width from a board. Then dust squirts out the left side. Hence my question to Ole. Frank, not sure it makes much difference as the stuff flies off the blade so fast, it doesn't have time to make a right turn.

[Tony Latham]

I like my Shark Guard.

416485

That's a 4" line coming off it but I also run a second 4" line from the bottom of the saw –otherwise it starts filling up down below.

You can't cut thin stuff with the Shark but it takes under a minute to pull it and substitute the factory riving knife.

T

[Mark Daily]

I made one like this and it works great:

https://youtu.be/DA-O-1qUDh4

416487

[Rick Potter]

Carl,

I also recently got a CU300 Smart. I am using a temporary 4" from my 6" drop to the saw port, until I have time to hook up some 5" pipe to the 6" drop. Works ok, but could be better. Haven't gotten around to the over the blade part yet, but I am wondering about using a shop vac to the small factory blade guard.

Have you tried that yet? I will get around to trying it in about a month, but just wondering if you already have.

[Carl Beckett]

Carl,

I also recently got a CU300 Smart. I am using a temporary 4" from my 6" drop to the saw port, until I have time to hook up some 5" pipe to the 6" drop. Works ok, but could be better. Haven't gotten around to the over the blade part yet, but I am wondering about using a shop vac to the small factory blade guard.

Have you tried that yet? I will get around to trying it in about a month, but just wondering if you already have.

I have tried the factory guard to the 4" DC hookup. It was not great at all. I might try the shop vac direct for a test, but instead want to get something in place I can use long term so even if the shop vac worked it is not a long term solution.

[Jim Becker]

The factory guard/pickup, which is likely the same as mine, is so narrow that it's largely ineffective for over head dust collection regardless of the drop size it's connected to. (I have a 3" drop to it) And because it's supported by the riving knife, it's only useable for through cuts. Trying a shop vac is worthy of the effort...maybe the better efficiency at high static pressure will get a little more action with the narrow guard.

[Jim Dwight]

I plan to do something like this:

https://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-plans/dust-collection/tablesaw-dust-collector

I think the collector is too wide but I like the fact that the arm is hinged to be folded out of the way when necessary. It looks like they used a 4 inch connection. I plan to use a 2.5 inch line - because my DC is only 2hp, not because I think it is better than 4 inch.

[Rick Potter]

Carl...

I had a little time today, and cut up some melamine shelving, so I decided to do a quick test with the shop vac. I first used the ShopSmith dust collector/shop vac that I have had for years. It is low pressure/high volume like a real DC. I hooked it up to the standard blade guard with 2 1/2" hose, along with the temporary 4" DC hose to the saw connection from my 3 HP DC.

It did work better than just the bottom hookup, but not much better.

Then I hooked my 6HP(?) ShopVac to the blade guard along with the DC to the cabinet. Hi pressure/low volume. It also worked better than just the DC, and a bit better than the ShopSmith Vac setup, but still nothing to write home about.

So far, I have not tried anything that makes me want to make it into a permanent setup.

That is all I will have time for. Working on a new addition, and going on an Alaska cruise next week. I will get back to it someday, but hopefully you will have it all figured out in the meantime.

[Carl Beckett]

I will get back to it someday, but hopefully you will have it all figured out in the meantime.

I hope your cruise is a LOOOONG one! (my projects progress slowly). Enjoy it, sounds fantastic!

[Carl Beckett]

The factory guard/pickup, which is likely the same as mine, is so narrow that it's largely ineffective for over head dust collection regardless of the drop size it's connected to. (I have a 3" drop to it) And because it's supported by the riving knife, it's only useable for through cuts. Trying a shop vac is worthy of the effort...maybe the better efficiency at high static pressure will get a little more action with the narrow guard.

Thanks for the calibration.

Net net I am not going to spend any more time chasing a solution with the stock pickup. Time to get a proper solution in place, my lungs need it.

[Carl Beckett]

Waiting on parts for the blade guard/collection chute, which is kinda nice to finally be moving forward on something that has been overdue for some time.

In the meantime yes, I did need better adapters to these port sizes. So just printed one on the printer, fits nice and snug. We will see how it holds up over time.

Looking at these again in the background you can see sawdust, everywhere! The largest culprit is by far the tablesaw.

416986416987

[Carl Beckett]

And why not, an embarrassing picture of just how much dust is all over my shop. I tend to setup in 'lanes' to crunch a lot of stuff in a tight space. This is the main working triangle from my bench to the layout/sanding table to the tablesaw. I wish I had a better place to store the unused raw material for a given project (I tend to hoard wood which takes up more storage space than I should allow - plus I see my son threw an extension cord in there). Although just thinking about this gives me an idea on a way that could resolve this very issue, would be fantastic to get unencumbered floor space left of the outrigger, if nothing else just to be able to walk around.

Right above the saw is a ceiling mounted air filter. I am not sure to what degree it helps (and yes I have read some concerns that it actually hurts). I should probably get a particle meter once I get the really crude collection in place. I really do need to prioritize healthy lungs.

416988

[Carl Beckett]

Procured some pieces for the blade guard. I had to chuckle that they came in a box marked 'fragile'.

It is a table saw blade guard. I hope it is not 'fragile'...

:)

More to come on this project...

417271

[Jim Becker]

Don't underestimate what carriers can do even to "sturdy" things, Carl. :)

[Carl Beckett]

Well, phase I is roughed in. I get the feeling this is going to change another few times before all said and done, but basic funtionality is in place.

I liked the Grizzly guard/chute so just ordered that. And mounted it to a home made overhead boom. At the same time I split it to go to the jointer/planer, and/or the under table port. I think it is going to get a small flex section and a hinge, so it can be swung up/out of the way.

Not sure how much is going to be in the way of what, figure I will learn that soon enough and modify from there. But I NEEDED to get something in place, the dust was bothering me so just hit the stop button until something was in place.

At the same time I made a relay for the dust collector. I simply pigtailed a household light remote to a relay. Mounted the 110 receptacle in the same box as the relay, so if the remote ever bites it all that is needed is to plug in a new one same as any outlet.

Still some bits and pieces to clean up, but it is functional, and am hoping my shop (and lungs) stay cleaner now.

:)

417597417598417599

[Matt Day]

Nice!

How much did the Grizzly parts cost? And what part numbers did you get?

[Carl Beckett]

Nice!

How much did the Grizzly parts cost? And what part numbers did you get?

Matt, I can PM you the list if you like, I simply went and picked each individual component off the replacement parts list. The grand total was about $230 so it all added up to where is was not that far from just buying the entire assembly. But I couldnt come up with a use of the overarm boom, so took the few $/shipping savings. For similar money I could have gotten a shark guard, but decided I wanted to mount overhead and not on the riving knife. The shark guard has a mounting kit for overhead, but I liked the grizzly 4 bar adjust ability and larger guard footprint. Its worth looking at shark guard as an option but again I didnt want to fall into paralysis analysis, just wanted 'something' - GO DO. Under a month from start to finish is pretty good progress by my standards.

I turned a cylindrical block from hard maple to mount the pivot arm. Already I have simply slid the guard off to be able to rip small pieces, so that works ok (did not remove the hose, simply sat the guard on the table clear of everything. It may be, that this setup will push me to using the slider more effectively, which wouldnt be all bad because I still have some cabinet saw habits in me. These small rips I did are an example where they might have been done on the FF jig, and safer to do that way. Using the FF I would not have had to remove the guard.

When I raise the guard it swings towards the back - the nature of the 4 bar mount. It still covers the blade but I might shift the mount forward depending on what height range is most used, since it seems dust is more apt to be thrown forward than back. Simple to redrill a hole for the pivot mount, although I might also add a sliding piece that lets it adjust front to back easily. Am expecting to tune this in via use.

What I dont know is, how much that mount is going to get in the way when I cut a taller piece (even with blade guard off). It is not often I cut pieces very tall (I will measure what clearance is there), but sometimes (used to be tenoning but now I do tenoning with a different method). I can always slide the saw out from under if needed, or like others have done make the overarm hinge/slide out of the way, although I like the rigidity of what is there, it is pretty stiff/solid.

Also I had visions of making side pieces for the guard that can swing down independently. Will see if that ever happens, I think it depends on how effective this is as is. It does not collect 100%, but does pretty well. And it seems like it is pulling up more of the fine particles (most important), what does escape seems to be larger particles (the larger mass) getting thrown out the front edge. Minor in comparison to the mess it made before, and I dont mind a few chips on the tabletop, it is that fine dust that FILLED the shop before that I needed to get rid of. I might take a piece of scrap walnut (if there is such an animal) and just make a bunch of cuts and see what the shop air does. Walnut in particular was bothering me, like furniture made with it but never liked the dust from it.

Note I gave a good blow out/cleaning all through the underside of the saw. Dust had collected that looked like the underside of a cabinet saw - even though there has always been under blade collection it really wasnt effective. The ZCI I hope will help (made a temporary wooden one while some material is ordered for something better). Even the slider runners were full of sawdust. Bearings/runners, belts, gears, etc all do better without sawdust in them. With luck, better dust control means taking better care of the saw itself. And things look a little more tidy now.

417646

I can now get back to woodworking...

[Jim Becker]

That turned out to be a nice solution, Carl. I have to give this some thought as I'd like to do similar with my slider.

[Rick Potter]

FastCap sells a brush like material that is fastened to a flexible roll. It is peel and stick. I wonder if that would complete your setup, allowing less dust to escape around the blade.

They sell it to install around CNC router setups. Looks like the brush part is about 1 1/2 to 2" tall.

I saw it about two years ago, and assume they still have it.


PS: Looks like you made a nice zero clearance insert. Care to share more pics of it, or did I miss that while I was gone.

[Carl Beckett]

FastCap sells a brush like material that is fastened to a flexible roll. It is peel and stick. I wonder if that would complete your setup, allowing less dust to escape around the blade.

They sell it to install around CNC router setups. Looks like the brush part is about 1 1/2 to 2" tall.

I saw it about two years ago, and assume they still have it.


PS: Looks like you made a nice zero clearance insert. Care to share more pics of it, or did I miss that while I was gone.

I have seen those brushes. I think I may go for the swing down side panels instead (if it even needs it). On the other hand, wouldnt take much to stick on on the front edge.

There is still plenty of tweaking needed to be sure. Right now the hose is a 2.5" that I had instead of 3", which is on order. And some couplings to get rid of the clunky tape. And will swap that blast gate for a metal one. The hose that goes to the back of the saw that T's off, I have another drop I put in at the same time along the back wall - I think I will run hard pvc along the floor to the back wall for that hookup just to get everything clear of the top surface. But then I have to step over it each time using the J/P, so a tradeoff. In the mean time there really isnt much that I will have to move it out of the way for as is... so its just me, like the cleaner setup of having the top clear.

I did make a quick ZCI out of wood while some phenolic on order. It is about 1.6" wide, so 1.5" wide aluminum bar stock was not enough and I didnt feel like milling from 2" wide, and it was starting to get a little spendy. I may still... but in the meantime ordered a square of phenolic to use. The insert itself took about 15 mins to make out of wood - simply mill to thickness width length then put a shoulder on one edge so it sits flush. The trick was that the countersink I have isnt the sharpest, so it wanted to come off line when I countersunk with a hand drill, due to the (white oak) grain pulling it one way. And they do need to be pretty deep, it is thin in that section, so they go most of the way through. But hey they work.

I did have another set of small pieces to trim yesterday. Some were quite thin 'slithers'. I flipped the fence to where the smaller edge was the guide, and used the FF stops and lowered the hood. Between that and the ZCI it worked quite well. No dust, but also those slithers didnt go underneath the blade and clog everything. A couple times I thought they were going to get sucked up the chute though... but they stayed down. Using the FF jig properly, the guard really isnt in the way that much because you set distances with the table slid in front, where you can see everything, then just push it through. It could be a black box at that point.

Having the remote for the DC turns out to be a huge improvement. Overall a bunch of cuts, and my shop air was TREMENDOUSLY improved over what it would have been prior. Over due!

Havent milled a slot for the riving knife (but need to), nor the scoring blade (which threw the belt a while back anyway, is hard to adjust, so I dont use that much unless plywood). Plus about 20 other things I 'should' do...


417691417692

[Jim Becker]

I's nice you're already seeing a difference in the amount of "splash" coming off the top of the blade, even without further tweaking. Perhaps I missed it...did you set things up so you can move the guard laterally to aid with clearance relative to the fence when it's in tall mode or to clear a jig?

[Carl Beckett]

I's nice you're already seeing a difference in the amount of "splash" coming off the top of the blade, even without further tweaking. Perhaps I missed it...did you set things up so you can move the guard laterally to aid with clearance relative to the fence when it's in tall mode or to clear a jig?

I did not. And this may be something still to come.

Instead, I just slipped it off the mount and sat it on the right side of the fence (no dust collection for those cuts). It comes on and off loosening one knob. Knowing me, I might live with it like this for many years, it is not obvious yet that I will need to do that very often.

[Rick Potter]

Thanks Carl. Glad to see someone making progress. Tonights task for me was to start figuring out how best to store the various fences and other parts while they are not being used.

My Son in law picked up my old saw today, and we got it on his trailer without any problems.

[Brian Backner]

Don't underestimate what carriers can do even to "sturdy" things, Carl. :)

I once bought a Hay-Budden 60# anvil from a guy in Georgia. Shipped UPS, it arrived in a sturdy plywood box - it was in three pieces! I can only imagine that the ability to cause such damage is a requirement for employment at most of the national shipping companies.

[Jim Andrew]

Brian, have only heard the saying " that guy could break an anvil in a sandbox", but guess there really are guys working at UPS who can do it!

[Tom Bender]

A tip speed of 100 mph is part of the problem. I slowed my saw with a 1750 rpm motor and a VFD. Sure it cuts slower, sometimes this wastes 2 or 3 seconds in a single cut! That adds up. I normally run at a tip speed of around 40 mph. Much quieter. The saw makes bigger sawdust and throws it less. A full speed saw provides way more than optimal tip speed at normal feed rates so I get a good quality cut with less burnishing.