Leigh D4R Pro

[Greg Parrish]

I just joined the crowd and wanted to get some input going on tips, websites, videos, etc. that might not show up immediately in searches but that others found valuable to get going when they first started using this jig. Anything beyond the Leigh website that is a must read or watch?

i don’t have the accessory kit yet but will order it under the $99 special with Leigh on Monday. I hear it may take a few months to get though.

Thanks as as always for your guidance.

[lowell holmes]

Be aware that you will need various router cutters to use with the jig. I have a Leigh jig. I don't remember the last time I used it.
Actually, I don't use the shop much these days. I need a SWMBO project.

[Jim Becker]

You want a set of cutters that are designed for the D4 setup...length is important. I'll also recommend the 8mm shank for these as long as you can get an appropriate collet for the router(s) you intend to use with the jig. Much stronger than .25" shank cutters, especially given the longer length required for this jig. It's not a terrible idea to have two routers (even nicer if they are identical) for when you need to cut joinery that requires two cutters and separate setups. Saves a lot of time as you process things.

[Charles Lent]

Welcome to the forum, Greg. I think you will like it here.

Cutting dovetails and pins with a router and a D4R works best if you have two routers, one with the dovetail bit and the other with the straight bit. This lets you keep your router depth settings which for doing blind dovetails is critical.

I found that putting a marking pen arrow on the top of the base of each router, and always pointing the router arrow toward the jig when using it, removes any small router base to bit errors from affecting the cut. I still use a centering cone to get the router base centered as best as I can, but keeping the arrow pointing toward the router jig guarantees that the base centering errors will not get into the joint.

I built a router stand (just kind of a box with a large hole in the top for the router bit). It is the same height as my jig, so I can park my "in use"router on it when changing boards, etc. The VRS helps stabilize the router when it's in use, but having a place to park the router off the jig makes arm muscles complain less after cutting dovetails all day.

I use two of the same model router (DeWalt 618) with my D4R, so I put tape on the top of the motor and drew a picture of the bit (dovetail or straight) on the tape, to keep me from picking up the wrong router DAMHIKT

You don't need a lot of power when cutting dovetails, so a smaller lighter weight router that will take 1/2" shank bits is the preferred choice. The 1/2" bits flex less than 1/4", so they will produce more accurate joints. For improved comfort and control, I prefer using the D handle bases on my routers when cutting dovetails, but use any fixed base that is comfortable for you.

Always go back over your cut a second time to be certain that you have closely followed the guide pins or your joint will not fit together at assembly time.

Always remember to drop the guide pins back down after replacing a board. (I'm good at failing to do this)

Always insert the spacers between the guide pins to keep the router from cutting where you don't want it to. If you run out of the plastic strips that you can order from Leigh, it is possible to use wood of the same dimension, cut to the lengths needed as replacements. After use, I keep mine in a small plastic box with the jig to use the next time. It's amazing how often the right length piece will already be in this box the next time that I use the jig.

I hope these tips help.
Charley

[Ron Selzer]

Welcome to the forum, Greg. I think you will like it here.

Cutting dovetails and pins with a router and a D4R works best if you have two routers, one with the dovetail bit and the other with the straight bit. This lets you keep your router depth settings which for doing blind dovetails is critical.

I found that putting a marking pen arrow on the top of the base of each router, and always pointing the router arrow toward the jig when using it, removes any small router base to bit errors from affecting the cut. I still use a centering cone to get the router base centered as best as I can, but keeping the arrow pointing toward the router jig guarantees that the base centering errors will not get into the joint.

I built a router stand (just kind of a box with a large hole in the top for the router bit). It is the same height as my jig, so I can park my "in use"router on it when changing boards, etc. The VRS helps stabilize the router when it's in use, but having a place to park the router off the jig makes arm muscles complain less after cutting dovetails all day.

I use two of the same model router (DeWalt 618) with my D4R, so I put tape on the top of the motor and drew a picture of the bit (dovetail or straight) on the tape, to keep me from picking up the wrong router DAMHIKT

You don't need a lot of power when cutting dovetails, so a smaller lighter weight router that will take 1/2" shank bits is the preferred choice. The 1/2" bits flex less than 1/4", so they will produce more accurate joints. For improved comfort and control, I prefer using the D handle bases on my routers when cutting dovetails, but use any fixed base that is comfortable for you.

Always go back over your cut a second time to be certain that you have closely followed the guide pins or your joint will not fit together at assembly time.

Always remember to drop the guide pins back down after replacing a board. (I'm good at failing to do this)

Always insert the spacers between the guide pins to keep the router from cutting where you don't want it to. If you run out of the plastic strips that you can order from Leigh, it is possible to use wood of the same dimension, cut to the lengths needed as replacements. After use, I keep mine in a small plastic box with the jig to use the next time. It's amazing how often the right length piece will already be in this box the next time that I use the jig.

I hope these tips help.
Charley


I use a D3 with 2 PC 690 routers 1/2" collets for thru dovetails
all of the above are good practices, some I need to add to my habits
have 8mm collets, have not needed them yet not certain what comes in the acc. set
don't ram and jam then cry when it doesn't work, it is a strong jig that works well as long as you are steady and stable
use a foot switch to turn router on and off, d handle bases would be nice(haven't found some at a great price when I have the money yet)
cutting thru dovetails in 15/16 - 1 1/16 boards up to 22" wide x 64" long
VRS is very nice would not want to do without
Harbor Freight bushings need trimmed to length, Whiteside bits work great

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks. I meant I was new to the D4R, not the forum. :)

i have a DW618 with D handle now and will look to supplement with a second one. Regarding bits, would the box of bits included with the accessory kit not be what I need to get started? Also, for collets I have a box set of porter cable collets but not sure if that works.

Thanks for all the other tips. :)

[Jim Becker]

I do not believe that PC collets will work on the DeWalt router. The jig comes with a few sample "most common" bits, but there are actually sets out there designed specifically for the D4 that cover the bases for all the commonly supported joinery.

[Greg Parrish]

So the router bits included with the accessory kit kit are not enough? It includes 11 additional Leigh bits and collet. Also includes the vacuum bracket. That’s what you get for $99 right now with purchase of the jig. https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/leigh-d4rpro-jig-accessory-kit.aspx



I do not believe that PC collets will work on the DeWalt router. The jig comes with a few sample "most common" bits, but there are actually sets out there designed specifically for the D4 that cover the bases for all the commonly supported joinery.

[Peter Kuhlman]

You should be all set with the bits in the accessory package as that is Leigh’s largest bit set for the D4.

[Jim Becker]

They are certainly enough! That appears to be the full Leigh set. Do note that you need an 8mm collet for most of them so be sure to acquire that for your specific router(s) that will get used with the jig. I thought you were referring to the typical 3 bit (I think) set that comes with the jig...or at least did when I got mine many years ago. I bought a full set from one of the then-market-leaders Jessada to fill things out.

[Peter Kuhlman]

The bit set is supposed to include an 8mm to 1/2” bushing as well as a template adapter.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks. The deal with Leigh this month is that if you buy the jig from an authorized retailer you can buy the accessory kit from Leigh for just $99 shipped. Takes a little time to get but saves a few bucks over the combo set up front. I picked the jig up at highland.

Crazy thing is I previously had one that I exchanged for the RTJ400 instead. Never even used that jig before tearing my shop apart and selling my router table. Sold the RTJ400 a few months ago so now I’m back to a D4R Pro for my first foray into dovetail jigs. Have the shop back operational and I’m excited to use the jig. :)

[Ted Diehl]

I purchased the D4R Pro and Accessory kit a few years ago and found the learning curve a little on the steep side for my garage woodworker self. I spent some time in the great manual and the DVD that came with it. I was finally able to knock out some decent dove tails. I've been using the Festool OF1400 router and after reading a few of the posts on this threat will pick up another router possible a Dewalt or Triton. I can see that mounting the straight router bit on one and the dovetail bit in the other should save some time.

[Jim Becker]

Ted, the ability to do so much with the D4 does bring a level of complexity to learning to use it. But I found the manuals to be excellent in that respect, taking you through the process for a particular style/size of joinery.

On the router, I think there are two specific advantages to using a fixed base router with the dovetail jig rather than a plunger like the OF1400. (which is my favorite router and the one I use most in my work) The first is balance...a fixed base router like the DW618 or similar has a lower center of gravity. The second is that it's often easier to "micro adjust" the bit height while physically looking at things at eye level because it's just a tiny twist to raise lower the motor. IMHO.

[Ron Selzer]

To me the whole reason for two routers is the ability to set the depth of cut where the fit of the dovetail is exactly to my liking. Then can cut either tails or pins in any order just changing position of the jig. I personally don't care to machine all of one part then reset to make all of the other part. I have done production woodworking way in the past and then went 20 years before getting back into woodworking strictly for pleasure, not on anyone's time schedule.

[John Gornall]

For half blind dovetails only one router and one bit required.

Best hint I have is clean and wax the router base, the guide, and the jig fingers. Should be able to move the router with 2 fingers when cutting. And better results with finesse not force.

[Jim Becker]

For half blind dovetails only one router and one bit required.

This is generally correct. The D4, however, is often used for a variety of through dovetails as well as other kinds of through joinery where two cutters are used. That's where the two router scenario comes into play for folks who want to adjust both cutters and test fit prior to cutting the production workpieces. Through joinery is popular for casework which the D4 is nicely suited to in some cases because of the width.

[eugene thomas]

Nice to have 2 routers so when making deep dovetails can cut with straight bit first. Safes the dovetail bit from maybe breaking.........

[Greg Parrish]

Just got home and unboxed the D4R Pro and the aluminum body doesn’t sit flat. It has some twist diagonally end to end as it will rock back and forth slightly. Checked on numerous known flat surfaces like workbench, Table Saw, and my straight edge. Is this normal? Will it affect anything? Just checking before I mount it on a board so I know if I need to contact Leigh or Highland tomorrow.

[Charles Lent]

Call the place where you bought it. I'm certain that they will exchange it. I've never heard of this problem, but it could have happened in shipment.

Charley

[Greg Parrish]

Will have to do so Monday. Bought it in Atlanta on a trip but live too far away to exchange in person. Thanks.



Call the place where you bought it. I'm certain that they will exchange it. I've never heard of this problem, but it could have happened in shipment.

Charley

[Ted Diehl]

You may be right about the fixed base router. Initially I tried to cut some dovetails on a piece of scrap 1/2" plywood. I had another scrap piece for the spacer board. I started cutting and the plywood was not working for me and thought the dovetail bits in the accessory box might be the problem, so I sent Leigh an email asking about the quality of the router bits. They told me they were of excellent quality and that the issues I was having were related to my use of plywood. I then used Poplar and after about 6 or 7 attempts - I was able to cut mediocre dovetails. Over the next couple of weeks I would attempt dovetails when I went out to the garage and finally cut some useable dovetails. I subsequently took fundamentals of wood working at a private woodworking school in downtown Phoenix. It was 90% hand tools including hand-cut dovetails. That help me understand what the jig was doing and where I could improve. I love the jig but once in a while, I'll hand-cut some dovetails just to keep my skill set up.

[Larry Frank]

I bought some sandpaper with adhesive backing on it and put it on the clamp bars and keeps the wood from moving. This has helped me a bunch.

[Charles Lent]

If you bought it in Atlanta, the only place that I know that sells the Leigh products is Highland Woodworking. They are a great company to do business with, and where I bought my D4R and my FMT Pro jigs. Doing business with them and Leigh guarantees that they will make it right no matter the problem. Both great companies to deal with.

Charley

[Charles Lent]

Plywood is not for dovetailing, especially not the common plywood. I have had success using top quality Baltic Birch plywood, but even that will sometimes delaminate and chip out when trying to cut dovetails. When I want to cut a strong joint in Baltic Birch plywood I now use an Incra I-Box jig and a Freud SBOX8 blade set on my Unisaw. It makes great box joints in Baltic Birch plywood with only very rarely a chip out. Attached are a couple of photos of my Baltic Birch box joints.

Charley

[Derek Arita]

When I got my D4R Pro, I spent a few weeks working with the jig. After testing Festool, Bosch, PC and Dewalt routers, I found the Dewalt DW618 to be the best fit for me and the jig. I also use the 8mm shank bits.
Believe me when I say, it took me many hours to be able to get good fitting dovetails. I had to make several very minute adjustments to both the jig and my own techniques in the process. In doing so, I learned a lot about how the jig works and I gained a real appreciation of its design. Now I can get very repeatable joints in solid wood and Birch ply. Now I use the jig for dovetails as well as box joints.
If your thinking is that the D4R Pro is a plug and play jig, producing excellent joints out of the box, then you'd be wrong. At least for me, it took very fine adjustments to the jig, as well as to my technique. It was real learning experience. That said, I think it's a very well engineered, precision jig, that is capable to producing very fine joints. What you get from it will depend completely upon what you put into it.

[Greg Parrish]

Correct, Highland. I spoke to them this morning and sent them an email with video clip so they could check with Leigh to see if it is of concern. I’m going to hold off doing anything with it until I get their feedback.

That said, I’m excited to start trying to learn to use it. I have no illusions about it being plug and play and fully expect it will take practice and work just like all of my other tools.

Thanks.



If you bought it in Atlanta, the only place that I know that sells the Leigh products is Highland Woodworking. They are a great company to do business with, and where I bought my D4R and my FMT Pro jigs. Doing business with them and Leigh guarantees that they will make it right no matter the problem. Both great companies to deal with.

Charley

[Charles Lent]

Don't hesitate to call Leigh CS about this. By now they will have heard from Highland. I had a small problem with my FMT jig when I bought it and spent time on the phone with both. Barry Martens at Leigh was the one who helped me. He may no longer be in CS, because it was many years ago. Rest assured that Leigh will make it right for you. They are one of the best companies that I've ever done business with.

Charley

[Greg Parrish]

I received email back from Highland which included their email from Leigh. The response was to screw it to a board and go to work. They said the bottom was not machined and was inconsequential to the operation of the jig. And that screwing it to the board would not induce too much stress into the aluminum per their opinion after viewing my video. That as long as the top and front machined surfaces were flat that the jig was fine and good to go. I can always shim it as I screw it down so that the tightening of the screws doesn’t stress the aluminum as much.

My head still says it should be square and flat but I assume they know what they are talking about. I guess they machined the top flat while the bottom was not but my head keeps telling me it shouldn’t be this way. I may call Leigh direct today to speak further with the person that sent the email. They are on pacific time so it will have to be this afternoon.

[Jim Becker]

I can almost appreciate that response, especially since it's pretty common to fasten the D4 to something. Mine is mounted on an MDF "stand" that raises it up off the work surface so it's easier to view the "business end" of the router while cutting joinery. I'm sure if there was any minor anomalies to the bottom of the jig, the act of fastening it down would deal with things. But if you feel that the tool has more than "minor" deviations, then you should absolutely pursue a remedy. I think it's a good idea to chat with Leigh directly so nothing gets lost in translation.

[Derek Arita]

Not that anyone is asking, but my feeling is, use one router to work out all the bugs and learn the jig. Once you're able to produce repeatable, "perfect" joints, then you can introduce a second router, keeping in mind that every router will have specific differences and tolerances and will produce slightly different results. At that point, you can make the necessary adjustments to the second router, to get it to perform as exactly like the first, as possible.

[Will Blick]

Plywood is not for dovetailing, especially not the common plywood. I have had success using top quality Baltic Birch plywood, but even that will sometimes delaminate and chip out when trying to cut dovetails. When I want to cut a strong joint in Baltic Birch plywood I now use an Incra I-Box jig and a Freud SBOX8 blade set on my Unisaw. It makes great box joints in Baltic Birch plywood with only very rarely a chip out. Attached are a couple of photos of my Baltic Birch box joints.

Charley



Charles, very nice chests, great box joints...
thx for sharing...
I am curious, other than using Ply, is there any other benefits of using an IBox over the D4R?
it looks like an excellent designed jig, but its another tool to buy, store, etc.
Your input would be helpful, thx in advance.

[Derek Arita]

Using HD 1/4" Birch Ply and the Leigh box joint setup, I was able to make clean box joints. Practicing my routing technique prior to the real thing, made all the difference. If I can do it, anyone can.
416254

[Will Blick]

Nice... Leigh would be proud of that pix!
> If I can do it, anyone can. ;) lol
Would doing an initial clean pass with a larger router bushing, then a 2nd pass with the right size bushing.... maybe helpful to insure no tear out? Yes, a bit more time consuming.

I have had such mixed results with ply over the years. At times, when the outer most laminates are not thick enough, it will splinter, even with the best circ. saw blades, festool rail system, my PM2k TS, etc. OTOH, with some really "thick ply" plywood, I never had these problems. So my guess is, part of the variable here is the quality of the ply, mainly how thick is the outer most laminates.

[Derek Arita]

Nice... Leigh would be proud of that pix!
> If I can do it, anyone can. ;) lol
Would doing an initial clean pass with a larger router bushing, then a 2nd pass with the right size bushing.... maybe helpful to insure no tear out? Yes, a bit more time consuming.

I have had such mixed results with ply over the years. At times, when the outer most laminates are not thick enough, it will splinter, even with the best circ. saw blades, festool rail system, my PM2k TS, etc. OTOH, with some really "thick ply" plywood, I never had these problems. So my guess is, part of the variable here is the quality of the ply, mainly how thick is the outer most laminates.
Don't want to hi-jack the thread, but I will say that this was very thin and cheap ply. As I recall, a very lite pass across the front, between the fingers was needed. Also, it was crucial as to whether I plunged into the right or left side, from front to back, along with a lite pass across the back, between the fingers.

[Charles Lent]

Charles, very nice chests, great box joints...
thx for sharing...
I am curious, other than using Ply, is there any other benefits of using an IBox over the D4R?
it looks like an excellent designed jig, but its another tool to buy, store, etc.
Your input would be helpful, thx in advance.

I tend to like using box joints when the project needs to be strong and completed quickly. They are easy to set up for and make when using my I-Box jig. I mostly use it for making tool boxes, tote bins, etc. for my shop where I'm primarily interested in strength over beauty. I use the dovetail joints when making better quality furniture and fancy boxes. I'm not very good at cutting dovetail joints by hand, and it takes me nearly forever, so the Leigh D4R gets me great fitting dovetail joints in less than what seems like a light year of time, but I don't use my D4R enough to stay proficient at it, so setup usually takes quite a bit of time because I have to refresh my memory using the manual. If I decide to make box joints and will be using the same setup that I used the last time that I used my I-Box jig, I can take it out of the box and place it on my Unisaw, change the blade to the Freud box joint blade set with the same blade width as I had previously used, and begin cutting box joints with no setup required, other than setting the blade height for the thickness of material that will be cut. Once I have this right, I move the sacrificial strip in the I-Box jig to a new unused position and begin cutting my box joints. The I-Box jig does not get out of adjustment or need any re-calibration between uses, as long as I want the same width box joints again. I never tried avoiding the set up steps like this with my D4R, but I suspect that it will be the same, except for the time and trouble getting the routers and bits set up correctly, but I rarely cut dovetails of the same length and would likely need to change the jig to get half pins on the ends due to different length joints.

I don't cut dovetails in plywood, nor do I use my I-Box jig on a router table, because I have found that I get more chip out and de-lamination than I want. A router bit cuts when being fed in both directions while trying to cut box joints with it, requiring the use of a sacrificial strip on both sides of the work to keep chip-out to a minimum. The I-Box jig only has provision for one sacrificial strip on the saw blade or bit exit side. When cutting dovetails you are making cuts that are usually wider than the bit. If you closely watch the cutting action on Leigh's videos you will see how they move the bit, making cuts to remove the wood that would chip out easily, before going back and forth to cut the bulk of the material to be removed for each dovetail. Since box joints are usually the width of the router bit, this method is not possible and requires sacrificial strips to protect the edges of the work piece as the bit breaks through the sides of the board.

In my list of tips for using the D4R I neglected to tell you to wax both the top of the D4R and the bases of your routers, as suggested by another poster. Do this before you start using the D4R and you will be able to move the router across the jig much easier. Just make certain that the wax does not contain any silicone. Johnson's Paste Wax is my choice for wood shop use. Waxes containing silicone, like most car waxes, are banned from my wood shop, because the silicone causes all kinds of staining and finishing problems if/when it gets on the wood, and removing it once there is nearly impossible.


Charley