Newbie Table Saw Question- Alum vs Cast Steel?

[John McKissick]

New here and new to working with wood beyond 2x4 storage shelves and such.

I see all the best saws are all cast steel and some have options for cast or stamped steel wings but always steel.

Why? Purely for mass and vibration control (actually lowering the natural frequency)? Why are there no good table saws tops made from Aluminum? I know some jobsite saws have alum tables as does my Bosch.

I my day job I design aerospace equipment and we make extremely high performance accurate equipment and fixtures from Aluminum. Surfaces can be hard coated providing a hard slippery surface.

Thanks and I hope I am not beating a dead horse subject topic

[Mike Cutler]

John

I would say for the above reasons you stated and cost.
Cast iron is relatively cheap compared to the grades of aluminum you have experience with.
There is a huge third party aftermarket for many woodworking fixtures that are made from aluminum. Fences, router tables, extension tables, sliders, and many more.
No reason aluminum could not be used for a table surface that I can think of.

[Mark e Kessler]

I had and Inca Swiss made 12" cabinet saw for 30 years and it had an aluminium top never had issues with it. I just sold it, I also have their little band saw which has an aluminium top.

You want as much weight and mass as possible for the reasons you mention - cast iron being the best, the job site saws have alum for lower weight more than likely.


New here and new to working with wood beyond 2x4 storage shelves and such.

I see all the best saws are all cast steel and some have options for cast or stamped steel wings but always steel.

Why? Purely for mass and vibration control (actually lowering the natural frequency)? Why are there no good table saws tops made from Aluminum? I know some jobsite saws have alum tables as does my Bosch.

I my day job I design aerospace equipment and we make extremely high performance accurate equipment and fixtures from Aluminum. Surfaces can be hard coated providing a hard slippery surface.

Thanks and I hope I am not beating a dead horse subject topic

[Edward Dyas]

You want accuracy with a table saw and cast iron will give that to you. Aluminum and stamped sheetmetal is prone to warp and bend. You would really have to pamper an aluminum or sheet metal top.

[Mark e Kessler]

I will agree with you on the stamped metal but you are incorrect on the Aluminium when it comes to industrial equipment, could be true with "contractor saws" or other low cost equipment the same is also true for cast iron even some of the best prepared cast iron (properly aged before machining, etc) can warp twist etc and you see that mostly in any low cost Asian import machine


You want accuracy with a table saw and cast iron will give that to you. Aluminum and stamped sheetmetal is prone to warp and bend. You would really have to pamper an aluminum or sheet metal top.

[John McKissick]

I know a fair amount about Aluminum and I don't see warpage as any more of an issue than iron. Aluminum can come close to softer steels for strength and exceeds steel in performance per pound and for corrosion resistance aluminum wins hands down. Of course aluminum is generally softer and and can get gouged and scratched easier. I can see weight being a desirable goal for a table saw but the mass doesn't have to be in the top, can be added elsewhere.

Just the designer in me asks these questions.

I wonder how much is what I call "old-fartitis" which I suffer from which essentially says "That's the way did it back in the day"


You want accuracy with a table saw and cast iron will give that to you. Aluminum and stamped sheetmetal is prone to warp and bend. You would really have to pamper an aluminum or sheet metal top.

[Rich Engelhardt]

First time you try to stick one of those super handy magnetic feather boards on your Aluminum table saw, you'll know why you should have gone with cast iron.... ;) .


I wonder how much is what I call "old-fartitis" which I suffer from which essentially says "That's the way did it back in the day"It's more of - something that touches on what I mentioned above - that things have been done that way for so long, all the goodies and accessories are geared towards that method of construction.

Prior to picking up the Ridgid TS3660 I have, I had a Hitachi job site table saw. It had a flimsy fence & Aluminum top & direct drive & light weight non standard miter slots with little nubs in them.
No magnetic goodies, no cross cut sled, no stacked dado, no real accuracy & cutting whole sheet goods down was an exercise in terror - as the saw was prone to tip over and bind...

Heavy granite tops came and went pretty quick, so, sheer mass isn't the whole answer.

IMHO - it's a multifaceted reason w/ tradition & cost being heavily involved in the answer - along with several practical things.....cleaning and restoring being right up there also.

[William Chain]

I believe you’ve already hit on the answer. Keep vibration down. No vibration, maximum accuracy. I can stand a coin on edge on my tablesaw and it will stay there startup to shutdown. My old aluminum tablesaw shook, rattled, and had trouble holding settings. Also, to follow up on your other thread for table saw recommendations, there seems to be a new Laguna offering in the 1.75hp, 110V flavor that might be worth your attention.

[Peter Kelly]

Why are there no good table saws tops made from Aluminum?The very best small-sized tablesaw has an aluminum top. https://produkte.mafell.de/en/pull-push-saw-erika-85



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8mndTpuxkk&frags

[Jay Rasmussen]

John,
My opinion would be cost of raw material and processing. The weight of the cast iron also can hide inaccuracies in the manufacturing process.

No question an aluminum saw cold be designed to equal any cast steel offering.

Jay

[Rick Potter]

Peter,

I watched all the videos, and that Mafell saw reminds me a bit of the ShopSmith table saw thy sold a couple decades back, but much more thought out.

Can you tell us what it costs? I bet it will make a SawStop sound like a bargain.

[Mark Daily]

The very best small-sized tablesaw has an aluminum top. https://produkte.mafell.de/en/pull-push-saw-erika-85



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8mndTpuxkk&frags

Nice saw- would be great for smaller shops!

[Peter Kelly]

Peter,

I watched all the videos, and that Mafell saw reminds me a bit of the ShopSmith table saw thy sold a couple decades back, but much more thought out.

Can you tell us what it costs? I bet it will make a SawStop sound like a bargain.A top-end Erika 85c with all accessories shown in the video, including a sliding table, can be had for just over $4k. The slightly smaller Erika 70 comes in at around $3k.

[Dick Strauss]

Cast iron has more mass and is better able to dampen the transfer of energy because of the irregular grain boundaries in its structure. High quality cast iron is very stable if stress relieved and left to cure/stabilize for period of time after the casting process. CI also has much better wear properties.

[John McKissick]

Interesting. Thanks for the info but it's still a small TS

Aluminum is pricey. I wonder how well vibration is controlled.

[John McKissick]

You sound like you are a materials engineer or metallurgist.

Appreciate the information

[Rick Potter]

$3-4K. Suspicions confirmed.

Thanks Peter, it's always interesting to see how things are done differently elsewhere.

[Curt Harms]

my day job I design aerospace equipment and we make extremely high performance accurate equipment and fixtures from Aluminum.

Aerospace usually rewards lightness and corrosion resistance, woodworking machinery often rewards mass for its vibration damping properties. Mass market woodworking machines don't have a lot of component balancing I think.

[John McKissick]

Couldn't agree more but not all aerospace equipment flies. Designing to environments, sometimes very extreme, is a huge part of the process. Vibration, heat, cold, blast, EMP. All that we do but if we designed a table saw just the trunion might cost more than a top of the line Sawstop with all the bells and whistles


Aerospace usually rewards lightness and corrosion resistance, woodworking machinery often rewards mass for its vibration damping properties. Mass market woodworking machines don't have a lot of component balancing I think.

[Peter Kelly]

Interesting. Thanks for the info but it's still a small TS

Aluminum is pricey. I wonder how well vibration is controlled.The cutting height at 90 degrees of the 85 model is 85mm, which is more than a Unisaw or most clones. After trying one out, I wouldn't say that it's any less powerful or smooth running.

[John McKissick]

The one I was looking at seemed limited for rip capacity but I didn't see a number or look very hard after seeing the price.

That is a good number for thickness but probably has more to do with the trunion design and not so much the table material. New designs are great because it pushes others to also up their game and the consumer/woodworker win


The cutting height at 90 degrees of the 85 model is 85mm, which is more than a Unisaw or most clones. After trying one out, I wouldn't say that it's any less powerful or smooth running.

[Kevin Beitz]

Cast iron equals sound control....

[Derek Cohen]

New here and new to working with wood beyond 2x4 storage shelves and such.

I see all the best saws are all cast steel and some have options for cast or stamped steel wings but always steel.

Why? Purely for mass and vibration control (actually lowering the natural frequency)? Why are there no good table saws tops made from Aluminum? I know some jobsite saws have alum tables as does my Bosch.

I my day job I design aerospace equipment and we make extremely high performance accurate equipment and fixtures from Aluminum. Surfaces can be hard coated providing a hard slippery surface.

Thanks and I hope I am not beating a dead horse subject topic

I am not sure about the rest of the Felder range, but my Hammer K3 has an aluminium slider, and the rip fence is aluminium (attached to a cast iron adjuster).

Clearly, there is a place for all materials.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rod Sheridan]

I know a fair amount about Aluminum and I don't see warpage as any more of an issue than iron. Aluminum can come close to softer steels for strength and exceeds steel in performance per pound and for corrosion resistance aluminum wins hands down. Of course aluminum is generally softer and and can get gouged and scratched easier. I can see weight being a desirable goal for a table saw but the mass doesn't have to be in the top, can be added elsewhere.

Just the designer in me asks these questions.

I wonder how much is what I call "old-fartitis" which I suffer from which essentially says "That's the way did it back in the day"

Agreed, I have a saw with a cast iron top, an aluminum sliding table, and a steel extension table.

Material optimization for performance requirements and cost............Rod.

[andy bessette]

In a table saw top aluminum is vastly inferior to cast iron for a number of reasons, particularly durability.

[Bill White]

I know of no saw with a cast STEEL top. Cast iron? Yep! Big difference in material.

[Jim Andrew]

The OP posted that they are made from cast steel, not cast iron. The way steel is recycled, causes a lot of the cast to be cast steel, not cast iron. And cast steel is really a better material than cast iron, not nearly as brittle, and if something happens, cast steel can be welded.

[John McKissick]

I miss spoke

They are both magnetic is my excuse and I am sticking to it...
Yes I know there is a difference.

[Brian Holcombe]

Cast iron is more rigid than aluminum, it is also more wear resistant and better absorbs vibrations. I like aluminum for many things but not table tops where material will be fed over it constantly.

[Mark e Kessler]

My Inca Alum top held up well for 30 years with no noticeable damage other than discoloration, at one point i had 3-5 guys using the saw for 5-7 years I even had a power feeder bolted to the top to run a huge amount of trim for Holiday inn... well huge for me I think it was 15k-20k lnft a few times...

However the trunnion was aluminum and that got snapped twice trying to get it to 90 deg...

Mark


Cast iron is more rigid than aluminum, it is also more wear resistant and better absorbs vibrations. I like aluminum for many things but not table tops where material will be fed over it constantly.