Hand plane cabinet - advice about door needed

[Mitchell Garnett]

I want to store my planes in a wall cabinet with a door. With the humidity related rust issues I'm having, I plan to use a goldenrod heater so it seems a door would be necessary. Despite a lot of Internet searching and looking at images, I can't figure out if the cabinet door needs to have a good seal with the cabinet body or if a door that closes flush on all sides is adequate.

(back ground in case anyone is interested: I moved from the Seattle area a year ago as part of retiring and downsizing. This meant going from a climate controlled shop to using a 20 x 20 garage where the temp fluctuates with the weather. I've found rust to be a must bigger issue in East Texas than it ever was in Seattle. I'd like to keep the planes handier than how I'm storing them now - oiled or waxed, in plane socks and kept in the house where I've got control over the temp and the humidity. but maybe I'm asking for too much....)

thanks.

Mitchell

[Jim Koepke]

I want to store my planes in a wall cabinet with a door. With the humidity related rust issues I'm having, I plan to use a goldenrod heater so it seems a door would be necessary. Despite a lot of Internet searching and looking at images, I can't figure out if the cabinet door needs to have a good seal with the cabinet body or if a door that closes flush on all sides is adequate.

[edited]

thanks.

Mitchell

Hi Mitchell, maybe someone with more experience will chime in on this. My understanding is the Goldenrod heater will keep a designated area warmer with the purpose of avoiding condensation. If the area is open, the warmth escapes. A flush fit will eliminate most of the air flow. A lip on the inside will stop even more.

The inside of the door would make a good place to store chisels, saws or many other tools also needing protection.

jtk

[Christopher Charles]

Hi Mitchell,

That's quite a change of habitat! My understanding is that providing a bit of heat in an enclosed space is aimed at keeping the temperature stable enough to prevent condensation (i.e., lowering the relative humidity below the condensation point) rather than actually changing the water content of the air. Thus, as long as the case is enclosed enough to keep the temperature above the condensation point, you should be fine.

Regardless, you could try to experiment with a cardboard box, goldenrod and one or two tools to see how tight it would need to be. I suspect a piston fit is not necessary.

Best,
Chris

[chris carter]

Rods like these are used in pianos along with a control unit (too keep an exact humidity level). On a grand piano they are not in any kind of enclosed space. So I would doubt you need an air-tight seal. In fact, I think an air-tight seal could be problematic for two reasons. First, if the moisture can’t escape, you will just have warm moisture so you won’t solve your problem. Second, even if the moisture could escape, without a control unit you could overdo it and crack your cabinet. Nothing like seeing a gorgeous piano cracked because someone used a rod and left it on (it happens) and I’m sure you wouldn’t want to have that happen with your cabinet. If I were to use a rod, I would probably be inclined to build my cabinet with ventilation and I might be inclined to add a control unit as well (or at least massively overcompensate for ridiculous amounts of wood movement).

[Will Blick]

Rust on handplanes is a very annoying problem, and other tools as well. Planes are hard to remove rust in some areas. I too moved from a dry desert, now to high humid area, and fighting the same battle.
I will be building a new storage cabinet in the future, once my shop is built. Till then, storing in socks and keeping them oiled. There is many options, such as the rod heater which can be helpful if it heats the planes. Dehumidifier will reduce humidity, thereby lowering the dew point temp. This is an elegant solution if the tools are usually confined to an isolated area with the dehumidifier. But once u remove the tool to other conditions, condenstation can occur. The rust vapor products will not prevent condensation, instead, it prevents rust through chemical reactions.

Without turning this into a really technical thread, here will be my solution.
On the shelf the planes sit on, I will have a mat heater. The planes will sit on the mat heater. These mats are sold for keeping plant soils warm for indoor growing of sprouts, etc. The benefit of this approach is, it will raise the temperature of the entire plane, slowly over time. Condensation occurs when the surface temp of any solid is at, or below the dew point temperature. Keeping the temperature of planes above the dew point temperature, will prevent any condensation from occuring. The amout of heat required is usually very minimal. As seen in the chart below, even at 100% RH, (a rainy day with doors open, worst case scenario) the plane temp. only needs to be 1 deg warmer than the ambient air temp. Of course, warmer is not an issue, other than wasting some energy. To be really safe, keep the plane temp a few degrees warmer than ambient temperature so when you use the plane, it wont be vulnerable under the worst case scenario.

I plan to control the mat heaters by using a differential heating thermostat. The thermostat will call for heat when the temp of the plane falls below a differential that you set. The goal, is to always keep the planes a few degrees warmer than ambient air. You attach one probe of the thermostat to the metal of your largest plane, the other prob senses ambient shop air. When the plane temp falls 3 deg lower than the ambient temp, the thermostat turns on the mat heater. I have not bought one fo these thermostats in years, so would have to dig around to find who still makes them.

Of course, this type of thermostat is not mandatory, you can put the mat heaters on a on/off timer as well...with a little experimenting, you can come up with the right on off cycles per day. Also, you dont need to plan for 100% humidity, as that really is the worst case scneario. By viewing the dew point chart below, you can tweak your system to work with your ambient shop air conditions. Keeping a digital temp gauge with remote probe taped to a plane, will always give you a quick glance of your planes temps. These cost about $25-35.

415839

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I would think a cabinet to keep the dust off combined with wiping with oil before putting them away would be enough. The heaters, etc. strike me as overkill. But then I don’t live in East Texas, so maybe I am wrong.

You definitely want to figure out a way to store them where they can be used without a half a day of pulling them out and putting them back.

[Tony Mize]

I understand where you are coming from. I live in central Alabama where humidity is a problem. My shop is in a daylight basement. I store all my hand tools in a chest of drawer setup with a large silicon pack from amazon made for fun safes in each drawer and I haven’t had any rust problems in two years.

[Will Blick]

I used to think it was overkill too, when I lived in 25% humidity...
When living in the desert, not a single tool ever rusted, including my TS top, unless i sweated on it ;)

now at 85% humidity on avg, wow, all my tools rust like crazy, its a part time job watching out after them.
I have all my tool cabinet draws lined with anti rust padding which does help, but still have to keep all the tools oiled. After one of my prized planes got rusted, leaving it on the bench by accident for 6 weeks, it was a beast trying to clean it. (tt was a rainy period) I hate this aspect of being in high humidity.
Cant complain though, temp. is so tempered... trade-offs, trade-offs, trade-offs, such is life.

[Tom Bender]

How about building a closet for tools and attaching a dehumidifier to that? Dehumidifiers are not expensive, are uncomplicated and include a humidistat.

[Al Launier]

I would think a closed door along with the use of desiccant could work. Or, perhaps something like this inside or nearby https://www.amazon.com/Improved-Eva-dry-333-Renewable-Dehumidifier/dp/B000H0XFCS/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=Desiccant&qid=1568113423&s=gateway&sr=8-5

[Robert Engel]

I tried the humidity rods and wasn't impressed. All they really are is heaters.

I had better luck with a moisture absorbent but you really have to monitor it.

A light coating of Jojoba oil helps, too.

You do need to seal the doors. This is what I started out with:
415857

I think the ultimate solution is a climate controlled room. I eventually built a climate controlled room in the corner of my shop where I keep my good bench and all my hand tools. No issues at all.

415858

BTW I live in NE FL. The summertime humidity here is 80-90% at night, 60-70 during the day.

[Will Blick]

The de humidifier, as i mentioned above, is an ideal approach, IF, the tools remain in the area of the dehumidier, and the area is sealed. Not easy if you work with your tools often. But ideal for storage. I tried this with a huge De Humidifier, with external drain line to a 5 gallon bucket... I was dumping the bucket every day...obviously, the area was not sealed well enough, and the doors were open constantly as I would keep grabbing tools. The dehumidifier was rated at 50 liters per day, it was the large console type. It was helpful, but far from a solution.

The heating rod will not reduce the total water vapor in the air. Its primary purpose is to raise the temperature of the tools above the dew point temp. While the RH will drop with the heating rod, (assuming a confined space) this is only because the air temp. rises. As air increases in temp, its capacity to hold a greater quanity of water also increases. This is why, 50% RH at 70 deg is NOTHING like 50% RH at 100 deg. Without checking a pyschometric chart, 90 deg. air can hold approx 3x the amount of water vapor vs. 70deg air, at the same %RH. Hence the term, "relative". However, the absolute humidy value (g/m3) will remain unchanged, as no water vapor has been removed from the air.

The percentage in %RH refers to,

weight of water vapor in the air / max. amount of water vapor air can hold at that temp.

So by simply increasing air temp with a heating rod, you lower the %RH, but the absolute humidity of the air remains unchaged, creating no benefit for rust prevention as the dew point temp remains nearly the same. (assuming the tool metal temp remained unchanged)

This is why the mix of high temp AND high humidity is so hard to prevent rust. So other than metal surface treatment, oil, wax, etc., your options are, keep the tool temp above the dew point temp., and/or remove water vapor from the air (which also lowers the dew point temp. as seen in the dew point chart).

Water vapor condensation on tools is by far the fastest way to rust metal. I have watched untreated tools rust in a week during ideal conditions in my shop. However, even if you solve this, there is still water vapor in the air, so long term rust can still occur. Unfortunatley, I have come to accept, here is NO perfect solution if you are confronted with both high temp and high humidity. A multi prong approach and vigilince is required.

As for the rust preventers, I use CRC 3-36, it works better than anything else I have tried. Leaves a very fine coat and seems to last longer than other products I have tried. If others have had good luck with other products, please share, I like to try new preventers. For plane bodies, I also use the Japanese oils they sell for rust prevention. As for the rust busters, seems nearly all the acids work equally well. Specially Vit C (absorbic acid) a friend gave me.

[lowell holmes]

Check these out.

https://www.google.com/search?q=moisture+absorber&oq=moisure+&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l5.9215j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Jerry Olexa]

I've had very good results with a De Humidifier...I let it run all summer here in Illinois and no problem at all..In winter, the heat furnace etc takes over. Waxing the tools help plus I do have a sealed tool cabinet (wall mounted) for the "good stuff". HTH.

[Ray Newman]

For several years now, I place a Bull Frog Rust Emitter Shield in my guns safes. The Bull Frog product releases a vapor that prevents rust from forming. Some do not like the BULL FROG products as they should be changed yearly.

Bull Frog also makes other products designed for tool boxes, electronics cabinets, etc.

‘Sorta’ hard to find in the retail stores, but AMAZON comes through:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Bull+Frog+Emitter+cups&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

BULL FROG website: http://www.bull-frog.com/

BULL FROG products: http://www.bull-frog.com/products/

[Will Blick]

I use the Zerust tool drawer liners, they work well... prob. very similar to the ones u posted a link for.
However, like u mentioned, they last about 2 years, so u must keep changing them, and they are costly if you have a lot of drawers! Of course, my tool chest is sealed pretty well.... I will vouch for these, they help a LOT
which reminds me, mine need changing ...argggg

[Steven Mikes]

I live in central NC, summers are pretty humid here! Before building my tool cabinet rust was a big problem, I had to clean the tools every week or so. I made my cabinet out of uncoated red cedar. Since then I really haven't had much of a rust issue. I did have to wipe off some light rust a couple times, but really not a big deal. The cabinet doors have small gaps around them so it's not airtight or anything.

[Tom Bender]

So back to my suggestion of a tool closet with a dehumidifier; (actually the dehumidifier needs to be inside)

This needs to be pretty well sealed and somewhat insulated. During off hours it will get warm and the moisture content of the air will be reduced, pushing the RH way down.

When working in the shop, the tool closet door will be open a lot and tools will be out and exposed to the ambient conditions, but for a while they will be warmer than the shop so no moisture will condense on them.

Construction suggestions
Put the dehumidifier up a foot or so so a drain hose can be run outside
Don't hang tools on the door so they won't fall when slammed in frustration
Install lighting inside
Install a skeleton key lock cause it's cool.

[Mitchell Garnett]

Chris, thanks for this info - I had no idea there were such controls in high end pianos but it makes sense.

[Mitchell Garnett]

How about building a closet for tools and attaching a dehumidifier to that? Dehumidifiers are not expensive, are uncomplicated and include a humidistat.

No room or I would have already gone down that route. I had hoped to put in heat and a/c but when I added up the costs for all the insulation work that would be needed along with new insulated garage doors that actually seal, it was out of my budget. Maybe in the future.

[Mitchell Garnett]

I've just got a couple of the small Bull Frog emitters to try - I've put one in a drawer with a couple of tools to see how it works. I talked to a supplier about them and he thought I should probably replace the smaller ones every six months if it is as bad here as I think it is. I think the recurring costs will work out to be too much over the long term.

[Mitchell Garnett]

Thanks to everyone for their comments. You've given me lots of things to consider. I tried to persuade my wife to let me have her craft room in the house but that didn't go over very well. :)

[Mel Fulks]

I like the Bullfrog stuff. I think a common uncoated nail is a good indicator of when the material is getting weak.