Bent laminations for a Morris chair

[James Spillman]

My project is a Morris chair with bowed armrests. I will be using cherry. The armrests will be 5/4" thick. They will be 5 1/4" wide. After building an MDF bending form I will glue narrow strips of cherry around the form to the desired thickness. My question is-- how thin do the strips of cherry have to be? Will I be able to bend 3/8" thick strips? I would like to use as few strips as possible. I have read plans that call for 3/8" thick strips to be laminated. Those plans were for an oak chair. I'm wondering if cherry will bend as readily. Thanks.

[Patrick Kane]

When i made my chairs, i want to say i drumsanded the laminates down to 1/8-3/16". 3/8" might be a little on the thick side, but im sure it would work. I would make a full length caul to support the pieces along the full length of the bend. You might see a little more spring back after you take it out of the form.

Why do you want as few as possible?

[Jamie Buxton]

The laminates have to be thin enough to bend over the curve you've chosen. Without telling us the radius of your bend, you're asking a question which cannot be answered.

What I do is to first design the chair, then make the bending form to whatever curve the parts need. (If you're planning on using only two or three laminates, there will be some springback, so the form should have a smaller radius than the eventual parts.) Then cut a test laminate, and see if you can bend it over the form using whatever clamping means you plan to use. If that thickness of laminate doesn't bend well enough, run it through the planer again to get a thinner laminate. Repeat until you're comfortable. Then make more laminates and glue them up.

[Joe Cowan]

I am getting ready to start on some Morris chairs. What plans are you using?

[Mikail Khan]

1/8" should be ok. It is a slight bend.

MK

[Mick Simon]

I agree with Jamie on the springback on laminations that thick. I made mine ⅛" and core banded the edge to hide the glue lines. I then went over the top with one last lamination covering the banding and finished by chamfering the edge down to the lamination layer.

[Carl Beckett]

I did two of these chairs in QSWO. The first set I did three laminates so fairly thick. There was 'some' springback but not much (less than I expected even). The second set I used 4 laminates (no particular reason, just because I had some previously resawn material that thickness). Springback was quite small. I would not expect much difference in behavior from cherry, as mentioned the curvature is not that much.

The first set I sanded to a smooth finish. The second set I went straight from resaw to glueup (my resaw setup is working pretty good so a decent surface for glueup/tight fit).

Some progress pics of the first chair here (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?266556-Morris-Chair)

Post pictures when finished, it is in the works to do a third chair from cherry so I will be keen to see how yours comes out!

[James Spillman]

Thanks everyone for responding.
Joe, I am using a plan from Wood Magazine published in 1999. I bought it from woodstore.net. The plan says to glue up three 3/8" thick pieces to form a 1and1/8" thick armrest. I mistakenly wrote earlier that the armrests would be 1and1/4"thick. I think I will see if a 3/8" piece bends around the form. If not, I will plane to a thinner thickness until I get pieces that bend properly. In the past I have bent red and white oak for projects. The oak was bent using a steam box. Since I have never bent laminated wood and never used cherry I am unsure how cherry reacts to being bent.

[Bradley Gray]

What is the radius of the bend? I bend 3/4 x 1 cherry for music stand legs to a 10" radius after steaming. Since you have a steam box, I would suggest steaming the 3/8" pieces, bending them onto your form then let them set for a day or so before gluing.

[David Powell]

I also built this chair based upon the Wood Magazine plan. I went with the three 3/8" laminated arms and experienced a little more springbuck than desired; enough that I ended up fastening the back portion of the arms with a screw through the top into the side real and covered with a flush plug.

[Jim Becker]

For those worried about fitting the arms, make the arms first and then measure and cut the components that intersect with the arms to suit ACTUAL measurements, rather than the stated dimensions on a plan. This is the only way to insure an accurate fit when you have a component that might have some variability because of how you need to construct it. In this case, and as folks have mentioned, a bent lamination will have more or less spring-back depending on the wood, the glue the atmospheric conditions and probably the phase of the moon... ;) . Plans are a guide. They are never going to be absolutely perfect for any project when something like wood is involved.

[johnny means]

I always use .125" material and laminate using West Epoxy. I find that gives me almost zero spring back and allows me to build to spec (usually a necessity with millwork).

[Bill Space]

Had no idea what a Morris chair was. I did a google search and found abundant images.

Sure looks like the radius of the curve is NOT large. My impression was the radius could be 10 feet!

if so, wouldn’t 3/8 inch laminations work fine?

I mean, it is not like the question relates to bending hoops.

Just my uneducated impression...

Bill

[Mick Simon]

Jim brings up a good point. If I make another, and I most likely will, I would fit the arms to the side assemblies much differently than I did. I would take the completed arms and make templates off the bottoms. I would dry fit the side assembly and transfer the curve onto it, disassemble it and cut the pieces to fit at the bandsaw, including the tops of the legs. From there, I would fit the arms in place and using a mortising template, plunge rout through the arm into the top of the leg, Square it up, make a square loose tenon and glue it place. Better fit and easier than trying to transfer an existing tenon through the arm.

[Carl Beckett]

Jim brings up a good point. If I make another, and I most likely will, I would fit the arms to the side assemblies much differently than I did. I would take the completed arms and make templates off the bottoms. I would dry fit the side assembly and transfer the curve onto it, disassemble it and cut the pieces to fit at the bandsaw, including the tops of the legs. From there, I would fit the arms in place and using a mortising template, plunge rout through the arm into the top of the leg, Square it up, make a square loose tenon and glue it place. Better fit and easier than trying to transfer an existing tenon through the arm.

+1 on this - except I just tranferred the arm profile to the glued up side then followed it on the bandsaw and cleaned it up on the horizontal belt sander until the profile matched. I then made a small mortise for the entire top edge to recess into, this hides any gap (probably not anything needed and not sure why I chose to do it). Then I put counter bores on the underside of the top rail, and sank some screws pulling the arm tight against the top rail (I did not want the through tenon, but agree with Mick on approach if you do want it).

[Carl Beckett]

I ended up fastening the back portion of the arms with a screw through the top into the side real and covered with a flush plug.

Something to consider - add some countersunk holes from the BOTTOM edge of the top rail before assembly. Then you can screw the arm arm on from underneath and no plug needed. Yes it is screw hardware so may not be for everyone, but I chose to do this to ensure the arm was firmly attached.

[Mick Simon]

+1 on this - except I just tranferred the arm profile to the glued up side then followed it on the bandsaw and cleaned it up on the horizontal belt sander until the profile matched.
I thought about doing this also but thought my method above may be easier for folks that don't have bandsaws big enough to handle the heavy side assembly.

[Jim Barstow]

I’ve built 2 Morris chairs loosely based on multiple plans (including the one in Wood magazine). I have 3 suggestions:

1. Don’t use 3/8, you’ll get too much spring back. Although thinner pieces require more gluing, the lamination is much less stressful if you aren’t straining to clamp it enough. On my second one, I use a vacuum bag and it was much easier.

2. As others have said, bend the arm first then cut the side to fit the resulting curve. I did it the other way around on my first one and hand to use 2 screws to counter the spring back. (The screws aren’t visible but I know they are there.)

3. The flat surface of the arm is results in a lot of cups/glasses placed there. On my second chair, I inlaid a piece of tile to protect the finish

[Edward Dyas]

When you laminate wood in a form it tends to spring back some when you take it out of the clamps. The thicker wood you use the more it will try to spring back. You can use thicker wood but you need to make the form with more curve. It would also help if you would soften the wood by steaming it.

[Lincoln Brown]

I'm also building a Morris, using the same plans as a guide. I decided early on in my planning to use four thinner laminations, rather that the suggested three. The curve is very gentle - 4600mm/4.6 metres is what I used after drawing it in sketchup using the dimensions they give in the drawings. 3/8, or 10mm, seems very thick, even for a slight curve.

[Bill Fleming]

I am in the final stages of finishing a bow arm that I started several years ago, after doing all the hard work it got set aside!

Anyway some thoughts:

1) The Paolini FWW article is very good guidance. The online video workshop is excellent too. In addition his YouTube videos provide additional tips. I used his recommended 4 laminations of 1/4” each.

2) CarlÂ’s above suggestion about screwing from under the arm is a good idea, I thought of this only after cutting the curve on the upper rail so did not do this. What i did do to insure against glue failure or poor glue line where the bottom of the arm meets the top rail is:
a) Placed a screw (you could us a dowel) through the edge of the arm and through the through tenon. The holes were plugged with shop cut white oak face grain plugs.
b) I also used ebony wedges in the through tenons. Not only does this lock the joint but also tightens any fit issues with this tenon. The ebony matches other accents I used.

3) I used the plans used by Paolini and sold by FWW - these are labeled “American Furniture Design.” I also like the Prairie Settle designed by Kevin Rodel so I incorporated some of his details in my chair:
a) Rodel style corbels with floating splines
b) Rodel style side slats with square holes
c) Curved lower rail
d) Square ebony plugs at the major mortise & tenon joints

4) I like the idea of the inlaid tile as a coaster - I may do this. Motawi makes some tiles that would be nice for this. I have thought about making the through tenon flush so as not to interfere with setting something on the arm.

Now that I am nearly done with my pair of chairs I will say, they are a lot of work but they are fantastic.

[George Panagopoulos]

I am building a Morris chair based on a design from Paolini which looks similar and used (4) 1/4 inch boards from mahogany and it worked well. Didn't have much springbuck but used urea glue in a vacuum press.

[Jim Barstow]

Another note.

You may be shocked when you find out how expensive it is to have cushions made. I originally was going to use leather until I got a price. Went with good quality fabric and it was still really expensive. Keep in mind I live in the bay area and labor costs are very high.

This is how the arm looks with an inlaid tile for use as a coaster

416006

[Carl Beckett]

One thing I forgot to mention, is the wood grain. I tend to use wood that has some imperfections and not perfectly straight grain (many times I prefer the design aspects of this). When I did 3 thicker laminations on the first chair, one area that had end grain run out on the top surface, splintered out slightly when I clamped. I ended up flipping that laminate deep into the stack.

When I did 4 laminates, this did not happen (even though the wood was 'less perfect' even). So 3 seems to put more stress in the wood.

If you have perfectly straight grain that doesnt run out to the top surface it likely doesnt matter. If you have imperfections or any end grain fibers, I would vote for 4 laminates.

[Tom Bender]

So "bend it first then make the chair fit the arm" is good advice. Don't be too quick though. Finish shaping it, put on some finish and let it rest a few days. Then make the chair fit the arm.

[David Utterback]

I am not experienced with the technique but have read that kiln-dried hardwoods do not respond to steam in the same way as air-dried wood. True?

[Tom Bender]

Just to put it in perspective, for a given thickness you might bend KD wood to a 12" radius. AD wood at the same MC might go to 10". Green wood might go to 6"

[Patrick Kane]

Another note.

You may be shocked when you find out how expensive it is to have cushions made. I originally was going to use leather until I got a price. Went with good quality fabric and it was still really expensive. Keep in mind I live in the bay area and labor costs are very high.

This is how the arm looks with an inlaid tile for use as a coaster

416006


Jim is not kidding. Leather upholstery will surprise and maybe even take your breath away. For two chairs and two ottomans, i think the local shop was $2200-2500 total. The work is phenomenal and the chairs are among the most comfortable ive sat in--herman miller aeron is hard to compete against. Really expensive project, and it could have been worse. I didnt buy the most premium king ranch hides. My stuff is fantastic and i love it, but i could have spent 50% more on just the hides.

[Carl Beckett]

For what its worth, and some will say blasphemy!

These chairs for me are every day users. So I did the upholstering myself by buying fabric off fabric.com. I purchased a used memory foam mattress off craiglist that I then sliced up, used the padding/cover from, and made slip covers with the fabric.

It is not heirloom quality. But it came out perfectly acceptable for the function I was after (3 kids and two adults even wore out my professionally upholstered couch after a few years). Someday I may decide to do something more professional, but to be honest I doubt it, will just make another slip cover.