"Professional" paint (Sherwin Williams, etc) vs Box-Store paint

[Dan Friedrichs]

In our new house, I bought Valspar Signature paint from Lowe's to paint the entire interior, but ended up hiring professional painters to do the job. Nice, honest guys, who very timidly pulled me aside after putting on 2 coats of the Valspar and asked if I'd be offended if they went and bought Sherwin Williams ProMar 200 to finish the job because they weren't impressed with the Valspar (and, further to their credit, they refused to let me pay for the SW paint).

So, I'm a pretty discerning guy, and I can't tell the difference. I have both the Valspar and the ProMar, and after painting some walls myself with them, as far as I can tell, they're the same.

I've tried SW Cashmere and Proclassic, in the past, and just couldn't see what was special. Proclassic was hard to use.

I want to be the kind of snob who pays twice the price and goes out of the way to buy fancy professional paint, but I just don't see it. This seems to be reflected in the reviews of SW products on their website, which all seem very negative.

Can someone tell me: "Buy a gallon of [xyz] and you'll see why the pros only use..."?

Or, at least: "Yeah, if you're paying for it with your own money, Valspar/Behr is the better value"?

[Brian Elfert]

I use the Behr Ultra something for interior paint after Consumer Reports rated it as recommended.

SW makes fantastic exterior paints that are not cheap. SW has 30% off sales often and 40% off sales maybe quarterly. Pros have accounts and get discounts year round.

[Edward Dyas]

I'm a painter too and I had a customer supply Valspar Signature Paint for the their house I was painting. After using it for a day I could see it was so watered down it was never going to do the job. I also asked to change brands. I was working by the hour and I couldn't see putting four coats on everything with the Valspar paint to do the same job I would do with one coat of Glidden paint so they agreed. I have also used the Promar 200 and have found it to be watered down as well. It's better than Valspar though.

[Jim Becker]

I pretty much stick to SW or BM for "house" paint because I get consistency and great results. I have used the top level Behr for a few things and it was fine, but it did go on differently than the SW Emerald or BM Aura. And ProClassic acrylic is my go-to for trim. I find it extremely easy to apply. In fact, when I repainted my kitchen lower cabinets, which are white, I used it for that job because I couldn't spray my normal Target Coatings finish and the result was stellar with zero brush marks.

It's probably harder for a "casual" painter to notice differences, but for the folks who paint day-in-day-out, they are going to notice differences between products very quickly and that will affect their ability to execute with the quality they try to achieve.

[Frederick Skelly]

Sometimes, the difference between 2 brands is not evident until you see how it wears. I use only Sherwiin Williams. Excellent coverage going on. Very durable. I wait to buy it on sale.
Fred

[Tom M King]

I have tried the box store paints, and only will use Sherwin-Williams paint any more.

We painted one house a couple of years ago with Behr top of the line exterior, because the owner had read on Consumer Reports that it was the highest rated, and that's what he wanted. The difference that he paid us for putting on the extra coats needed was way more than if we had used Emerald to start with. Also, the Behr didn't bond to some of the caulking in old shutter dog holes (we went with a completely different shutter stay system), so long story shortened a little bit, we repainted the whole house with Emerald. That owner, and I are good friends now, and now, he only asks me what he should do.

I only use whatever the best that Sherwin-Williams offers. Cost of paint is usually not a large part of the overall cost, expecially when you have to redo it.

[Frederick Skelly]

I only use whatever the best that Sherwin-Williams offers.
+1. My Dad painted his house 25 years ago. The SW guys told him to pressure wash it, then put on 1 coat of oil-based primer and 2 coats of SW's best latex paint at the time. Believe it or not, their house still looks fine. It's astonishing how good paint, properly applied can last.

[Tom M King]

That was probably Super Paint. We have some horse jump rails that we painted with that 20 years ago. I remember it was 20 years ago, because our Daughter was 12 then, and she's 32 now. They've been on jumps sometimes, and sometimes just left on the ground. They've never been repainted, and still have probably 3/4 of the paint still on them.

Since then, the top end was Duration, and now Emerald. Each step has been an improvement. I have one 1828 house that we painted with Duration in 2007, and it stills looks like new after we pressure wash the mildew off of it. I like Emerald best of all, but it hasn't been out long enough to really know how it will hold up over time, but I don't expect anything but better from it.

[Greg Parrish]

Had our house repainted a couple years ago with SW super paint and it appears to be awesome stuff. I just bought a gallon of the interior super paint this week to start cutting in our master bath and bedroom with a new paint color.

Also painted our fence a few years ago with SW A100 and it has held up well.

Previously we used valspar or behr paints but I really like the super paint.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Ok, you've all twisted my arm. Jim, especially appreciate your recommendation for ProClassic Acrylic - I'm painting trim, next, and I see it's on sale, so I'll pick some up and give it another try.

[Ole Anderson]

Not general house paint, but I needed something to paint rusty radiators (next to the men's toilet, ick) and solid wood doors and wood trim as well as steel handrails at some old children's restrooms at church. I ran across Behr Urethane/alkyd waterborne satin enamel at HD. Alkyd with water clean up? Sign me up. It went on beautifully, probably could have made it with one coat, but I wanted to to last and last, so I went with two coats. Dry to recoat in about an hour. Cleaned up easily with water while still wet. Dry on my skin 3 hours later, it took brake cleaner to remove it. Two days later it was as hard as nails on the wood and handrails. Only time will tell, but so far I am impressed.

[Tom M King]

I've used Proclassic for trim for probably about as long as it's been available. I painted a large room the owners called a Sunroom about a year ago. They wanted the walls, and trim to all be semi-gloss white, which of course required meticulous preparation.

Since it was all the same color, I didn't mask anything but the vinyl sash in the Anderson casement windows. Since they were casements, I put positive pressure in the room with a fan, and put the very light wall drape plastic film over the sash, smoothing it out by hand, and closed the sash. That was all the masking we did. I used 7 gallons of Proclassic, and sprayed it with airless. It's a great sanding paint, so for the semi-gloss, we hit it with a quick pass of a ROS with 220 after the first coat, and it all came out like a top quality automotive paint job.

I've seen the owners several times since then, like in the grocery store, and Ace hardware, and they always are glad to see me, and give high praise on that room. They used to call it their Sunroom, but when they talk about it to me, they now call it "that room you painted". They have enjoyed showing it off to their friends. They say people ask what kind of walls they are, and don't believe them when they say it's sheetrock.

[Ed Aumiller]

Have had rentals for over 50+ years... Normally used SW promar 400 paint for interiors... Tried the highest quality (most expensive) BORG paint one time... guaranteed one coat coverage... after putting on second coat in one room and still did no cover properly (white on white!) took it back for refund... they did NOT give refund, only credit for unused paint...will never buy BORG paint again..

SW Promar 400 is not their most expensive paint, but in my opinion it covers in ONE coat and lasts a long time... That is all I will ever use...

[Rollie Meyers]

Not impressed with Valspar, but have had good luck with Behr. Sherwin-Williams, Kelly-Moore, Benjamin Moore, are all good paints, and there is nothing more expensive then cheap paint*, learned that lesson with paint made by a company called United Coatings, they later made the house brand of paint for the now defunct Home Club/ Home Base home improvement chain.

*Applies to masking tape too, now use only 3M tape.

[Art Mann]

We just finished a new house. The person who painted most of the house used Sherwin Williams brand for most of it. We did some painting ourselves and used the paint he bought and premium Behr paint from Home Depot, which we bought. We were able to compare the two materials side by side at the same time. I much prefer the Behr. It is smoother and covers better than SW. I would not buy SW if Behr is available. I can't say about Benjamin Moore, other than they have an idiot for a salesman in my town. We tried Valspar several years ago and I didn't like it but I can't remember whether it was the cheap or premium grade.

[Mel Fulks]

Our house was painted with Sherwin Williams several years ago. Holding up well. Painter used two ...maybe three kinds
of the brand. I don't like the fact that they have a bunch of paints with names that tell nothing about how they differ in
use.

[Andrew Seemann]

The paint guy at the local hardware store told me a couple years ago that the Valspar stuff at Lowes wasn't the same as the Valspar sold at hardware stores; it was a lower line that was intended to be price competitive with the standard low grade crud they have at the big boxes. I know the names and cans are different. I think the one I use from the hardware store is the Medallion line. It seems to work well as far as I can tell.

[roger wiegand]

SW Duration or BM Aura for me. Life is too short to use lousy paint. Since I mostly DIY I'm looking for ease of application-- coverage, leveling, ease of cutting a line, spattering etc. I find these paints far easier to us than the Borg varieties. We painted our house and new addition 7 years ago (done by pros) in two colors-- the color done in SW Duration still looks pretty much like new, the other color (brand unknown to me) was weathered down to the wood on the sunny side of the house and required repainting this summer.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Down outside of DC in the Maryland Burbs north of Greenbelt., there was a field 30 years ago with hundreds of panels set at angles, like solar farm panels, but they had multiple blotches of different colored paints. It was part of some government testing facility. I often wondered exactly what they were testing, (paint supplied for gov't contracts? ) but more so which paints held up the best. I have driven that stretch a few times in the past year and the paint panels are no longer out in that field.



Many years ago, I bought some US Navy surplus oil paint, Gray of course. everything, mostly farm equipment, I painted with that stuff looked good and was resisting rust 20 years later when I repainted everything with some other paint, that isn't holding up as well. At $5 a gallon, I wish I had purchased a lot more.

We moved into our new house three years ago and have been putting off painting. The contractor left with walls with some ghostly flat white primer on it. I have sort of grown accustomed to the white and dread picking out any colors to match the current fashions that might change next year. (The old house had a bedroom painted avocado when we moved in another bedroom was painted a deep purple with black trim. those are not me ) I look in the home magazines and see these bizarre dark colored red and blue walls. Yech. Nor do I want institutional yellow or green. The whole subject causes a sangfroid.
.

[Jim Becker]

Good idea to be on SW's (and BM's) mailing list as they often have sales which make the prices VERY competitive with 'borg paint. I always try to take advantage of that for obvious reasons, albeit "timing is everything".

[Jim Becker]

We just finished a new house. The person who painted most of the house used Sherwin Williams brand for most of it. We did some painting ourselves and used the paint he bought and premium Behr paint from Home Depot, which we bought. We were able to compare the two materials side by side at the same time. I much prefer the Behr. It is smoother and covers better than SW. I would not buy SW if Behr is available. I can't say about Benjamin Moore, other than they have an idiot for a salesman in my town. We tried Valspar several years ago and I didn't like it but I can't remember whether it was the cheap or premium grade.

"Which" SW paint was being compared to the Behr? There are multiple grades of paint and it does make a difference. Note, I'm not saying your experience is flawed in any way...but to be complete, knowing what SW paint was involved is important information. They do carry some pretty basic stuff in addition to the more premium levels of product.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Valspar drywall primer horror story follows:

We did a house, new drywall throughout. My crew are not "painters", but we do it often, and the homeowners really wanted us to do it on this project. I bought the estimated amount of Valspar drywall primer that the company recommended for the square footage, and it didn't even get half of the project covered. Bought a lot more, and finished, but we began to notice that the stuff was soaking into the drywall oddly, and things were telegraphing through, like pencil marks and different mud layers. A couple days later, we began to see some paper delaminations from the drywall. I called in the reps, the paint guys said it was a bad lot of drywall, the drywall guys said it was the primer. I used more of that same lot of drywall on a later job with no problems, with a different primer. We figured out a solution, but it was almost a catastrophe. I won't use Valspar anything willingly now.

[Frank Pratt]

I avoid the house brands in general and Behr in particular. It really is not good paint. BM & SW are the ones I prefer. Well worth the extra bit of cost.

[Mel Fulks]

Perry, the gov paint was probably lead based. Found gov. gallon of the "paste" at a yard sale years ago. Gave it to a friend.

[Jerome Stanek]

We have a SW test area just down the road from us. My son in law works for SW and I get a nice discount.

[Lisa Starr]

Our home's entire 1st floor is done with various colors of SW Duration paint. Our 2nd floor has Behr from the Borg. It was all applied 5-6 years ago, the a difference now is startling. The 1st floor was much easier to get good coverage in the first place and cleans up much more easily. The 2nd floor really needs to be re-done already and fades/marks when you wipe it.

[Frank Pratt]

Just to add a specific complaint about Behr paint, besides poor coverage and washability. My shop walls & ceiling are covered with OSB with latex caulking to help hide the seams. The caulking was left to cure for many days & then covered with Behr primer followed by a coat of semigloss white. Within a couple of weeks I notices the the seams that had been caulked were dirty. The paint over the caulking was ever so slightly tacky & held on to the dust. I applied a second coat to a small area, but that didn't help. Even years later it was still soft over the caulking.

I finally ended up priming the offending areas with Zinsser Bin primer, then a top coat of semigloss. Problem solved. I've never had a paint do that over latex caulking before and certainly not since (cause I won't use Behr anymore)

[Prashun Patel]

I notice the difference between my favorite (Benjamin Moore Regal or Aura) and the Valspar, Behr's I've used in a couple ways:

The BM paint seems to cover more thoroughly after a single coat than do the other two - and I'm not just talking about thinness of the coat so you can see through to the previous coat; I see it in the little white dots you get when the loaded roller starts to run thin. I'll cover a wall with Valspar, only to see those white spots that I missed an hour later. With the BM, I cover a wall and I think I'm going to have to do it twice because I can see lap marks when wet, only to find out an hour later it dried perfectly even.

I think this difference is more noticeable with darker colors too.

I'm cheap, but I do spend for good paint.

[Ole Anderson]

No shortage of opinions here. When comparing paints, Behr vs SW for example, make sure you are comparing apples to apples ie: satin to satin, not semi-gloss to flat. Huge difference in coverage and durability. Remember the old paints, like the cheap ones carried by K-Mart? Those were bad paints. Personally my go-to paints are SW Pro-Classic for trim and cabinets and Behr Premium Plus or Ultra eggshell for walls.

[lowell holmes]

I built houses in a previous life. I used Sherwin Williams and have ever since. I see no reason to change.

My father had a small Napco paint stote and it is good paint.

[Mark Bolton]

In our new house, I bought Valspar Signature paint from Lowe's to paint the entire interior, but ended up hiring professional painters to do the job. Nice, honest guys, who very timidly pulled me aside after putting on 2 coats of the Valspar and asked if I'd be offended if they went and bought Sherwin Williams ProMar 200 to finish the job because they weren't impressed with the Valspar (and, further to their credit, they refused to let me pay for the SW paint).

So, I'm a pretty discerning guy, and I can't tell the difference. I have both the Valspar and the ProMar, and after painting some walls myself with them, as far as I can tell, they're the same.

I've tried SW Cashmere and Proclassic, in the past, and just couldn't see what was special. Proclassic was hard to use.

I want to be the kind of snob who pays twice the price and goes out of the way to buy fancy professional paint, but I just don't see it. This seems to be reflected in the reviews of SW products on their website, which all seem very negative.

Can someone tell me: "Buy a gallon of [xyz] and you'll see why the pros only use..."?

Or, at least: "Yeah, if you're paying for it with your own money, Valspar/Behr is the better value"?

Promar 200 around here at least is the dog poop of paint. Its whats slathered on condos and rental units by the tanker truck load. It wouldnt surprise me that its no different than home center paint.

Coming from nearly 30 years of residential construction there IS most definitely a difference in paint but there is perspective in there as well. Painting to get the check when you walk out is easy. A paint job that holds and looks good (and I mean looks like the day you walked out with your tools) is a different story. Your contractor maybe either just liked what they liked or the Valspar could likely have been better than the promar 200 and they werent use to painting with better paint.

We once sub'd out some work to a 40 year Union painter who was a super nice guy and touted himself as the end-all-be-all of paint. But he was a union painter, who had to work in restaurants, apartments, and so on... speed painter. We were building reasonably high end residential and running Benjamin Moore Regal, Pearl finish, Aura when it first came out. He couldnt lay on a wall to save his life. We would have to bring in extra material so he could paint a room a second time because the roller marks were everywhere. We could lay on a coat on the same job and walk away and it would look like the hood of a corvette.

It all what they are use to running.

My judgement of a paints quality is not only how it goes on. Its when you walk into a home you built 10 years ago and the paint looks nice, its tight, not dry, caulk work is still tight. Thats the sign of good paint. And someone who didnt roll their roller out dead dry trying to stretch their paint to the end of the earth. A good technique is to measure a couple walls that add up to close to a gallon of coverage and then lay your material on. If you get to the end and youve still got a half gallon of paint in the pail, you didnt put enough paint on.

If your painting a rehab thats gonna get trashed thats one thing. But if your trying to paint once, and make it last. Its gotta be done well.

[Frederick Skelly]

Our home's entire 1st floor is done with various colors of SW Duration paint. Our 2nd floor has Behr from the Borg. It was all applied 5-6 years ago, the a difference now is startling. The 1st floor was much easier to get good coverage in the first place and cleans up much more easily. The 2nd floor really needs to be re-done already and fades/marks when you wipe it.

This is another good example of my earlier point - sometimes the difference between 2 brands is in how it wears.

[Jerome Stanek]

When we did Revco and CVS pharmacies they sepec Glidden Ultra and had their own color Revco had Revco gray and CVS had Swiss Coffee. They used Glidden because it cleaned well and touch up was easy to do along with a nation wide network of stores that could get the formula from.

[Ron Citerone]

My daughter just bought a house and I am going to help her with the interior painting. SW has a 30% sale on one of it's "DIY" ceiling paints. The "PRO" ceiling paint is not discounted. $60.00+ a gallon. SW "DIY" is in the mid to high $20's on sale. Big box DIY is low $30'w. No way I can justify $30.00 a gallon more for the "PRO"no matter how much better it is.

If the SW "PRO" was 30% off I would consider it. No contractor is paying $60.00 for the "PRO" paint BTW. I'm all for quality, but at what level of insanity?

[Jim Becker]

The PRO discount is also 30% on the current sale...I just got the email. Sign up as a contractor. :)

[Tom M King]

I've had a pro account with them for decades. When they have 40% sales, that's cheaper than my regular price. It seems like they have 30% off every few weeks, and 40% several times a year.

[Ron Citerone]

The PRO discount is also 30% on the current sale...I just got the email. Sign up as a contractor. :)

Thanks Jim, When I called today the girl said it didn't apply to contractor paint............maybe I need to sign up like a contractor like you said.

[Ron Citerone]

I've had a pro account with them for decades. When they have 40% sales, that's cheaper than my regular price. It seems like they have 30% off every few weeks, and 40% several times a year.

Thanks, I will have to get on the list.

[Darcy Warner]

Not a big fan of duration or super paint, I also found it like to lift while rolling.

All the paint I buy is from a local paint store, sell Dutch standard made by Harrison paint Co. Covers well, goes on well, durable and wears well.

[Ole Anderson]

My daughter just bought a house and I am going to help her with the interior painting. SW has a 30% sale on one of it's "DIY" ceiling paints. The "PRO" ceiling paint is not discounted. $60.00+ a gallon. SW "DIY" is in the mid to high $20's on sale. Big box DIY is low $30'w. No way I can justify $30.00 a gallon more for the "PRO"no matter how much better it is.

If the SW "PRO" was 30% off I would consider it. No contractor is paying $60.00 for the "PRO" paint BTW. I'm all for quality, but at what level of insanity?

Painting ceilings is the worst. You are generally putting white over white and very difficult to see your coverage. Tough on the arms and neck. Both Valspar and Glidden (and I presume others) make a color changing ceiling paint for that reason. Goes on light purple or pink and goes to white as it dries. Both are in the sub $30 range. I see ceiling paint from under $12 to over $66 per gallon.

[Frank Pratt]

Painting ceilings is the worst. You are generally putting white over white and very difficult to see your coverage. Tough on the arms and neck.

Oh, I agree with that. Next time I paint ceilings I'm just going to cover everything & spray it.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks Jim, When I called today the girl said it didn't apply to contractor paint............maybe I need to sign up like a contractor like you said.

"Contractor Paint" may very well mean something different here...and not necessarily desirable. AFAIK, all of the paints up to Emerald should be available at the sale price as long as you have the coupon/code. These are retail products.

[lowell holmes]

When I am painting, I only use top of the line paint. I've never had to redo a paint job.

[Art Mann]

I just found a few cans we saved for touchup purposes. The labels all say Promar 200. I have no idea what that means.


"Which" SW paint was being compared to the Behr? There are multiple grades of paint and it does make a difference. Note, I'm not saying your experience is flawed in any way...but to be complete, knowing what SW paint was involved is important information. They do carry some pretty basic stuff in addition to the more premium levels of product.

Edit: I just looked at Consumer Reports interior paint test results and once again, Behr premium labels come out on top. Among the other top listings is HGTV made by Sherwin Williams and evidently sold by Lowes. I have never seen it. The regular Sherwin William brand paints are very far down the list, below many other brands. Those include some Valspar, Benjamin Moore and PPG labels.

[Tom M King]

I gave up on the Consumer Reports paint ratings in 1991, until I forgot about it, and then was talked into using a paint on the top of their list around 2015 (as mentioned earlier-since topped with Emerald). They seem to rate dollars as important as paint.

[Larry Edgerton]

I use ceramic paints, Grahams mostly until they got bought out by California. They changed the paint for a little while but it seems to be back to the original formula now. Ceramic paint is easier to clean when it gets dirty and wear very well. I do a lot of work with Azek and as it holds paint forever it is important that is cleans well and holds color.

Paint is like shampoo, everyone likes theirs best, till they find a better one.

[Jerome Stanek]

I gave up on Consumers Reports also they are like J D powers and Good Housekeeping where they give good ratings for money.

[Frank Pratt]

The fact the Consumers Reports rated Behr highly tells you all you need to know about Consumers Reports.

[jack duren]

Not a big fan of duration or super paint, I also found it like to lift while rolling.

All the paint I buy is from a local paint store, sell Dutch standard made by Harrison paint Co. Covers well, goes on well, durable and wears well.

All i use is Duration on my exterior. I have had zero problems 10years old.The flower boxes alone are painted with duration with plastic liners but still drain in the box and down the trim work. Good paints don't fail just poor prep work...415963

[Jon Nuckles]

I gave up on Consumers Reports also they are like J D powers and Good Housekeeping where they give good ratings for money.

I think that the fact that they don't take money and won't even take advertising in their magazine is their main asset. What I don't understand is how every thing I have purchased on their recommendation has turned out to be a lemon.

[Andrew Seemann]

I think that the fact that they don't take money and won't even take advertising in their magazine is their main asset. What I don't understand is how every thing I have purchased on their recommendation has turned out to be a lemon.

Unfortunately, untainted funding and objectivity aren't substitutes for extensive knowledge about a product and industry. No one is an expert in everything, and going from testing a product you know nothing about in the morning to testing another thing you know nothing about in the afternoon doesn't help.

The ones that amused/irritated me the most were when they would rate two identical items differently, like a Ford Taurus and a Mercury Sable. If the same product gets two different ratings, you begin to get suspect of the methodology of the review and ratings.

[Jerome Stanek]

Who paints the outside of their houses.

[Art Mann]

The fact that you offer derision without proof tells me all I need to know about your opinions. Consumer Reports does not accept money for advertising and, unlike some woodworking magazines, has no problem with going against conventional wisdom when they see evidence that it is wrong. That is why I tend to believe they are honest, even though I don't always agree with their methodologies. I like Beher paint better than Sherwinn Williams because I had the opportunity to use both brands recently at the same time on my new house and noticed a difference in the coverage effectiveness and the smoothness of application. This experience follows closely my previous experiences with SW paints. It isn't a bad product. It is just inferior to other products.


The fact the Consumers Reports rated Behr highly tells you all you need to know about Consumers Reports.

[Ole Anderson]

I have used plenty of cheap lousy paints, and Behr isn't one of them. My only problem with Consumer's Reports is that they seem anti-American when it comes to car reviews. Being from the Motor City area maybe I am a bit prejudiced. As far as paint, at least they have a testing procedure, not just 'I like Paint "A"'.

[Jim Becker]

Behr paint is decent paint, IMHO. I just prefer products like SW Emerald and ProClassic as well as BM Aura...I get better coverage and more consistent application, at least with my personal technique.

[Jerome Stanek]

Has anyone tried Ecotone paint. I see that my rehab store carries it. It is supposed to be recycled latex paint.

[Darcy Warner]

Who paints the outside of their houses.

Anyone who doesn't live in a vinyl box or have lick and stick stone, or actual real brick.

[Darcy Warner]

Paints like duration, super paint, emerald, and the other companies high dollar paints are made for homeowners.
Stuff is thick, pulls off the wall when trying to actually apply paint the technically correct way. They market those as one coat coverage, which makes them a PIA to try an apply two normal coats.

Never witnessed any painting contractor using them, it's always pro mar, ICI, Glidden Dulux, etc. Paints that are made to be applied by someone other than an amateur.

[Tom M King]

I guess that makes me an amateur then. This first house was painted with Duration in 2008 (sorry, no current picture of that one, and that picture is before completion, but we just pressure washed that one last week, and it looks the same, except now with steps on the front). The second one with Behr whatever the top of the line was, that released over caulking within two years, and it was recoated with Emerald. These are museum houses, and we pressure wash them every couple of years as part of what we get paid for keeping them up. Duration, and Emerald hold up great to pressure washing with bleach.

I will only paint old sash, or new reproductions with Emerald gloss. When we pressure wash the houses, we don't put pressure on the sash, but they get hit with Windex hose end sprayers at the end. I'm glad I put my foot down on using Emerald on those 1850 sash (second picture), because I would not have had time to redo them like we did the siding that the owner wanted us to use Behr on, because of the Consumer Reports rating. (have found the higher the gloss, the easier it cleans later-verified by tests on the same house by me).

Yes, these old houses get painted, instead of having synthetic siding on them.

I don't ever remember rolling any, so admit they might not be the best for that. We either spray with airless, or brush.

I expect most of the time, when someone hires painters, they go for the cheapest price, which means the painters won't be using a top end paint.

I've only been doing this for a living for 46 years now. I guess if there weren't different opinions, there would only be one brand. I'll be sticking with what works for me.
http://historic-house-restoration.com/sitebuilder/images/frontview-600x401.jpg

http://historic-house-restoration.com/sitebuilder/images/CIMG2129-460x355.jpg (http://historic-house-restoration.com/images/CIMG2129.JPG)

[Mel Fulks]

Tom, love that railing ! Sure makes a difference when you don't go "all the law allows " on spacing.

[Darcy Warner]

There you go, sprayed and brushed.

Try rolling the garbage.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

In this thread I have learned paint is no different from sharpening stones....

[jack duren]

Paints like duration, super paint, emerald, and the other companies high dollar paints are made for homeowners.
Stuff is thick, pulls off the wall when trying to actually apply paint the technically correct way. They market those as one coat coverage, which makes them a PIA to try an apply two normal coats.

Never witnessed any painting contractor using them, it's always pro mar, ICI, Glidden Dulux, etc. Paints that are made to be applied by someone other than an amateur.

I have on commercial jobs. The reason I went with SW to start with was advise from commercial painters. The only recommendation made was never trust a self priming paint...

Fire stations, police stations and hospitals dont want cheap...They have specific requirements...

[Darcy Warner]

I have on commercial jobs. The reason I went with SW to start with was advise from commercial painters. The only recommendation made was never trust a self priming paint...

Fire stations, police stations and hospitals dont want cheap...They have specific requirements...

You do realize that duration, super paint, etc. are all labeled and marketed as self priming. So, uhhhhh

[Darcy Warner]

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/duration-exterior-acrylic-latex

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/superpaint-interior-acrylic-latex

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/emerald-interior-acrylic-latex-paint

What's really odd is the only one that isn't is the one you dismiss because of standards.
https://www.sherwin-williams.com/painting-contractors/products/promar-200-zero-voc-interior-latex

Promar is a professional paint, the others are homeowner paint, just reading the descriptions makes that pretty obvious.

[Tom M King]

I never use any paint as self-priming. We've taken all the old paint off of many things, and I've never seen a failed oil based primer under anything that has any life left in it anyway.

[Jim Becker]

Paints like duration, super paint, emerald, and the other companies high dollar paints are made for homeowners.
Stuff is thick, pulls off the wall when trying to actually apply paint the technically correct way. They market those as one coat coverage, which makes them a PIA to try an apply two normal coats.

Never witnessed any painting contractor using them, it's always pro mar, ICI, Glidden Dulux, etc. Paints that are made to be applied by someone other than an amateur.

Well...the pro painters who did our home addition specifically recommended the BM Aura for the walls, the Duration for the exterior trim and the SM SuperPaint for the ceilings. And these two guys were extremely good at their trade. And expensive, too. They primarily do high-end homes and additions. 4200 sq feet of really nice paint job. :) But this is a pretty subjective thing.

[Darcy Warner]

I never use any paint as self-priming. We've taken all the old paint off of many things, and I've never seen a failed oil based primer under anything that has any life left in it anyway.

Its marketing garbage for homeowners.

[Darcy Warner]

Well...the pro painters who did our home addition specifically recommended the BM Aura for the walls, the Duration for the exterior trim and the SM SuperPaint for the ceilings. And these two guys were extremely good at their trade. And expensive, too. They primarily do high-end homes and additions. 4200 sq feet of really nice paint job. :) But this is a pretty subjective thing.

Make more money off marking that stuff up.

[Jim Becker]

Make more money off marking that stuff up.
No markups. They didn't supply the paint. The GC did and my cost was his cost from SW and BM...which was not retail.

[jack duren]

You do realize that duration, super paint, etc. are all labeled and marketed as self priming. So, uhhhhh

That's for homeowners who want easy. When you want a surface done correctly you'll prep it right knowing the paint will adhere. You remind me of the finisher at Jacobe Furniture in KC. He hated SW products. He always referred to one particular job he did were SW products failed. I heard about the same job for 5 years. I use there paints, poly's and pre cats. You won't change my mind. Sorry you were disappointed.I've had an account with them since 2000. Never had a reason to look elsewhere..

[Art Mann]

The "Professional" designation on product advertising and labeling is very important to me. That is why I am so partial to Harbor Freight tools.:rolleyes:

[Darcy Warner]

That's for homeowners who want easy. When you want a surface done correctly you'll prep it right knowing the paint will adhere. You remind me of the finisher at Jacobe Furniture in KC. He hated SW products. He always referred to one particular job he did were SW products failed. I heard about the same job for 5 years. I use there paints, poly's and pre cats. You won't change my mind. Sorry you were disappointed.I've had an account with them since 2000. Never had a reason to look elsewhere..

I just hate over priced crap, which most off the shelf paint is.

[Tom M King]

Here's a big painting crew, that works full time. Ask them what they use, including primer.
https://www.colonialwilliamsburg.com/blog/2019-blog-posts/maintaining-our-painted-surfaces

[Darcy Warner]

Here's a big painting crew, that works full time. Ask them what they use, including primer.
https://www.colonialwilliamsburg.com/blog/2019-blog-posts/maintaining-our-painted-surfaces

I zoomed in on every picture that had a paint can it in, nothing resembling a SW can.

[Tom M King]

Sherwin Williams has a 40% off sale through the 23rd. I think they only have 40% off 2, or 3 times a year. I bought some of my favorite exterior paint yesterday, for upcoming projects this Fall, Emerald for $42.80 a gallon. That puts it down in the range of the box store paint.

Colonial Williamsburg is careful not to advertise for any one paint company, because several companies, whether they use their paint or not, pay them royalties to use the name on color collections.

[lowell holmes]

Both Lowes and Home Depot have good paint.

[carey mitchell]

I pretty much stick to SW or BM for "house" paint because I get consistency and great results. I have used the top level Behr for a few things and it was fine, but it did go on differently than the SW Emerald or BM Aura. And ProClassic acrylic is my go-to for trim. I find it extremely easy to apply. In fact, when I repainted my kitchen lower cabinets, which are white, I used it for that job because I couldn't spray my normal Target Coatings finish and the result was stellar with zero brush marks.

It's probably harder for a "casual" painter to notice differences, but for the folks who paint day-in-day-out, they are going to notice differences between products very quickly and that will affect their ability to execute with the quality they try to achieve.

I have spent a good portion of my 51 married years painting, and repainting - the wife likes to try different colors. In our last house, i painted the kitchen 5 times in the first 4 years; she finally got what she wanted.

Obviously, I have painted a lot more than most people. I have found Benjamin Moore to work best for me, even considering the cost. It goes on easier and seems to be much more durable. Currently using Sherwin Williams in the new house, as there is no BM dealer nearby. I would say its a close second, but don't buy the low end products.


I

[Ron Citerone]

I just this week painted 2 bedrooms in my daughter's newly purchased house. I used Behr Premium Ultra on the first room because the SW sale hadn't started yet and we had the room prepped and ready. The second room was painted with SW Super Paint as the 40% sale had started. 2 coats both rooms, similar color.

I felt the Behr covered better, it was a little thicker so it did not cut in as easily on the ceiling line. The SW was thinner and cut in nicer but while it covered well with 2 coats, it did not cover as well on the first coat.

All in all, I would rate them about equal, and would not pay for SW if it wasn't on the 40% sale.

I am not a Pro painter, but worked 10 summers as a painter in college and in my early teaching career so I have some experience with paint.

[Kev Williams]

I have very little painting experience, other than painting our houseboat with Sherwyn Williams industrial enamel 10 years ago-

With no other prep than scuffing up the original hull paint with a palm sander, I sprayed the hull with an old Sears sprayer, thinned the paint with mineral spirits-
these pics are dated March 15, 2009-
417041

417042
note the side walls are still the yellow'y white, they had been repainted at least once with house paint, not sure what brands the but cans are still stored in the boats basement- you can see a big patch of the repaint gone, revealing the original beige-y white. The side panels are 1/16" thick mottled FRP laminated to plywood walls...

The summer of 2010 I had a friend repaint the sides using the same paint. Prep amounted to using the same palm sander to remove some of the old flaking paint, and a coat of Bullseye primer, paint & primer rolled on. Looked every bit as good as if it'd been sprayed on...
417045

this pic is 4 years later, summer of 2013-
417044

I've been doing some hull repairs, I took this pic last week- all the white paint is in great shape, no rust coming thru on the hull, topside shows no flaking, nothing. There's a few rub marks on the hull from fenders. A little soap and water an it shines right up.
417043

Whatever Sherwyn Williams cost, I'll pay it. :)

[Mark Bolton]

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/duration-exterior-acrylic-latex

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/superpaint-interior-acrylic-latex

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/emerald-interior-acrylic-latex-paint

What's really odd is the only one that isn't is the one you dismiss because of standards.
https://www.sherwin-williams.com/painting-contractors/products/promar-200-zero-voc-interior-latex

Promar is a professional paint, the others are homeowner paint, just reading the descriptions makes that pretty obvious.


Unfortunately if your in this camp I can only imagine you havent run through a couple hundred gallons of material on a single job. Promar 200 is the dog XXXX of paint. And it is for a reason. Because its cheap. Its the material that is flown in on commercial work from HUD slum houses, right through to million dollar homes that have to repainted in 2-5 years.

The primer/paint in one thing is a scam the home centers foisted on the retail consumer and snowjobed them yet again. Virtually every low solid paint would technically be considered self priming because they are sandable. A top quality top coat is not sandable. We prime, sand, first coat, sand, and top coat. Sanding passes are ripping fast to de-nib the surface. There is no comparison. NO ONE running promar 200 is sanding after prime and first coat because they are on a budget job. The stuff is utter junk. You could put universal tint in skim milk and call it paint. SW branches push it because they have miles of it on the shelf for the production painters.

Ask a production painter who has any money in the bank (and not trying to burn up odd gallons/pails of material on his own home because he either has the money and not the time or the time and not the money) if they run Promar 200 in their own home. No chance

[Ole Anderson]

"Professional" paint, something like "builder quality"? Professional means different things in different circles.

[Doug Dawson]

"Professional" paint, something like "builder quality"? Professional means different things in different circles.

"Professional" can mean "get in, get out, and leave a good looking corpse" until it starts to smell, because they cheaped out on embalming fluid. ;^)

[Mike Hollingsworth]

For Inside Wall Paint:
417050
This stuff is flat and needs two coats.
417051
This stuff is "Matte" and will cover in one coat, but needs to be thicker to cover roller marks due to it's slight sheen.

Both cover with the same amount of paint, so I do 2 coats of the cheaper stuff.

I use oil for inside trim. Comes out much smoother.
I've never been able to make Latex look good. Too "Ropey" for me.

[Mark Bolton]

For Inside Wall Paint:
417050
This stuff is flat and needs two coats.
417051
This stuff is "Matte" and will cover in one coat, but needs to be thicker to cover roller marks due to it's slight sheen.

Both cover with the same amount of paint, so I do 2 coats of the cheaper stuff.

I use oil for inside trim. Comes out much smoother.
I've never been able to make Latex look good. Too "Ropey" for me.

There is no such thing as a one coat paint that will last.

[Ole Anderson]

There is no such thing as a one coat paint that will last.
Define "last".

Interesting about the Behr "Premium Plus", it used to be their "one coat" paint. Actually I am able to get by with one coat often as I really lay it on with a roller. Almost to the point of running.

As far as trim, if you use a self leveling cabinet style paint, it can look pretty good. SW Pro Classic works well. Using a quality low nap roller on cabinets, it levels out really well, looking nearly like it was sprayed.

[Neil Gaskin]

I've never been impressed with SW paints. Pro mar 200 is sh!$ Their duration is good stuff though.

We we use Benjamin Moore in our company. Our standard is "ultra spec". I prefer BM regal.

The difference is in the solid counts and durability etc.

[Ron Citerone]

There is no such thing as a one coat paint that will last.


Amen to that! Agreed.