Not so useful drum sanders

[Dueane Hicks]

I bought a performax 25/50 drum sander (scratch and dent...a big dent) at a good discount, called laguna tools and they sent me the end of the dented cabinet for shipping cost. Anyway; after several months of using it, I would have rather put the money in something else. Gums up too easily, burns too easily, leaves sanding marks that take forever to sand out. I think part of the problem is no cushioning behind the sandpaper? It would be very useful for a luthier or someone that does veneer repair, or used figured wood a lot. It seems to go out of adjustment pretty easily too, and takes awhile to set it back to being square with the feed table. I've tried zircon paper, thinking it would clog less; nope, probably clogs more. If a sandpaper maker would make a synthetic rubber/cork backer for the sandpaper, I think that would help quite a bit? I bought it thinking with 80 grit; I could flatten slightly cupped live edge boards. Nope, not enough power, and it would take till eternity to get it done. What do you guys think?

[John TenEyck]

I think you bought a drum sander hoping it would do the job of a planer. I've owned two DS's; neither are happy taking off more than about 0.010" per pass, and operate much better at 0.005" or less.
If the sandpaper is gumming up on you it's because you are sanding something resinous, sanding too heavily, and/or you don't have enough dust collection pulling the dust away. You'll usually get better results all around if you run the board through at a shallow angle, then make the last, light pass at 0 angle.

John

[Mel Fulks]

I think you have written a good practical assessment that some will find useful. Might be a good machine for instrument
guys. With practice you can do a lot with portable belt sander, the 4 inch are easier to use than the three, they don't
rock as easily.

[Patrick Kane]

Agreed, i had a bigger brother to your machine for a few years and found it woefully underwhelming from day one. They are slick tools to have around if you have the room. Prepping bent laminations, wide panels after glueup, and thicknessing really delicate/squirrely grain. After selling my 37" sander, i always wanted to get one of the small open-ended widebelts a shot. The 15"+/- varieties. I think the biggest problem with a drum sander is the limited contact area. There is no time and space for the paper to cool, and therefore it gums and burns faster.

[glenn bradley]

This is an interesting thread. I have been nothing but happy with the performance of my 19-38. There is a definite scope of operation.

[Rick Potter]

I LOVE my Woodmaster drum sander. Except for that one time, when I decided to sand some pine that had knots. It gummed up the sandpaper quickly and was so bad, I replaced the paper, and never sanded pine again.

Back to the first sentence. Do not repeat learning experience.

[Matt Day]

I was well aware of the limitations of the drum sander I had and it still was a piece of junk. Way too finicky to adjust (and readjust and readjust) and more often than not messed up a board instead of giving me a nicely sanded surface. Good riddance to hobby level drum sanders!

[Joe Hendershott]

I am with Glenn on this one. Have had a Super Max 19/38 and it has been a joy. I cut a lot of veneer on the bandsaw and running it thru the sander a few times makes it perfect. Also great for flattening out panels with hardwood edge banding prior to glueing things up in the vacuum press. Use the right paper at the right rate and it is perfect.

[Robert Hayward]

I am happy as can be with my little 16/32, but I do mostly hobby and craft work. Small stuff. A good bit is segmented turning which is why I bought the drum sander in the first place. Cannot imagine being without it now that I have one.

[Mike Henderson]

I have the SuperMax 25/50 and am very happy with it. Maybe I don't expect as much from it as you do.

I had a 16/32 before this one and traded up because I often needed to sand something wider than 16".

Mike

[Mike Cutler]

I think your machine is woefully out of tune, and you're asking maybe to much from it. It's never going to be commercial sander, but some very fine work can be done with it. You don't need backing on the drum, or paper. I had a 2nd generation Perfomax 16/32, and never needed it. To this day, it is the only machine I ever regret selling.
Is all you have tried so far 80 grit? If so, then yes, it's going to leave a finish that needs quite a bit more work. My dual drum sander is setup 80/120 and I still have a lot of sanding work left after that.
It will never, ever, flatten boards. With time you might take some slight cupping out, but nothing serious.
If it's clogging up, I would suspect a few reasons.
The dust collection may not be adequate.
The feed rate is too fast.
The amount of material being taken in a single pass is to aggressive.
The wood is green, or full of pitch, or it's an oily tropical species.

Bottom line, I think that you're correct. You need a bigger, more powerful machine.

[Ed Aumiller]

When I first got mine, had similar problems.... A friend in a cabinet shop had the almost identical unit... He had no problems, so I watched him and learned a lot...
My biggest problem was the grit... I find 150 is best for most of my work...
Agree with John TenEyck.. it is not a planer...

[David Kumm]

Adding a cushion to the sandpaper, head, or table doesn't improve the machine. A drum sander is a calibrating type machine. Won't take off more than a few thou but will leave a surface very uniform, particularly when sanding shop made veneer. Keep the paper tight, check it and retighten after the first board, use a cleaning stick often- very often, and stay away from pine. The cleaning stick needs to be used every few boards and keep the grits 150 or less. Dave

[ray grundhoefer]

I have a 3875 woodmaster that works very well as long as you make a light cut. Ive never used a cantilevered design but I can see where taking off to much could mess up the drum to table dimensions

[Bruce Page]

I LOVE my Woodmaster drum sander. Except for that one time, when I decided to sand some pine that had knots. It gummed up the sandpaper quickly and was so bad, I replaced the paper, and never sanded pine again.

Back to the first sentence. Do not repeat learning experience.
Ditto here, I love my Woodmaster. I can easily take 1/64 per pass with it. I had the exact same experience sanding pine and vowed never to sand it again!

[Jebediah Eckert]

I bought a used Jet 16/32 oscillating version from somebody who hated it. There was a learning curve, but I have settled on 150 grit, and a light pass.

The scratch pattern is hard to remove, but it comes out nice and flat. I drop down to 100/120 grit on the ROS to get them out. I never use the oscillating feature, those seem even harder to remove.

For smaller parts I just take a swipe or two with a smoothing plane to remove the scratch pattern.

[Albert Lee]

I have thought about buying a drum sander before investing in a wide belt sander. the technician from the machinery place where I bought my machines from persuaded me not to buy a drum sander because it will clog up and heat up very fast in a production environment.

in hindsight what he said was absolutely true, when I use my wide belt sander, ( length of belt is 1900mm/75 inch), it will heat up after some moderate use, I can not imagine how fast drum sander will heat up given the short lengths.

[Rick Potter]

One other thought. Maybe the first owner returned it after abusing it, or maybe it was a lemon to start with. It happens.

[Pete Staehling]

I have a 16/32 (upgraded from a 10/20). I absolutely love the 16/32. The 10/20 had some of the problems you mention, but was still one of my most used tools. The 16/32 has worked flawlessly for me. I have been extremely impressed with it.

Yes I am a luthier, but I don't think the tasks I use it for can fairly be dismissed as all luthier specific. I do lots of general woodworking tasks. I do tend to work on smaller sizes of stock. I start with largish slabs or planks in most cases but they are broken down into smaller pieces before much fabrication takes place, so I don't need large machines.

[John K Jordan]

... I bought it thinking with 80 grit; I could flatten slightly cupped live edge boards. Nope, not enough power, and it would take till eternity to get it done. What do you guys think?

Dueane, my experience is different. I bought a Performax 22-44 new and have used it quite a bit for some years now. I stick to 80 grit, 60 at times. I use it to flatten boards and a bunch of turning blanks, say 7 to 12" across and 1.5 to 4" thick, a variety of species, all quite dry wood. Mine wasn't set up well from the factory after I adjusted everything it hasn't gone out of adjustment, the belt tracks well and the drum stays level with the table. Maybe your's is not yet adjusted correctly or the bite is too big. Or something is warped from the "big dent".

I use the Jet or Performax paper, a number of very light passes, not too high a speed, and good dust collection. I typically crank the thickness down by 1/4 turn for each pass. It's not fast but quicker than eternity. But if I had a big bunch of big boards to do I'd take them to a shop with a 3-drum sander - I used one at Berea college and it was incredible.

JKJ

[Tony Zaffuto]

I have two drum sanders: a 16/32 Performax (no Jet sticker anywhere) and a 25" General International. There is a learning curve, but as said early in this thread, first and foremost is, you understand these machines are no planers! Second, feed slow, and take minimal cuts-0.010" max per pass. My 16/32 has 120 paper in it and the General has 120 in the lead roll and 150 in the back. Between the two, I like the Performax better, but I've not used the General as much as the Performax. I find it helps on the first pass, to put light pencil marks on the stock, to see where the contact is occurring. If I remove all of the marks on the first pass, I know I hogging too much material. Finally, stay away from resinous wood, ain't worth the aggravation.

In this thread, I learned about paper heating and I'm going to slow down my repeat passes.

[Ron Selzer]

I have had two drum sanders in the past glad to see them go. I bought a used 15" open sided belt sander and love it. Yes I have blown belt seams with it($40 belts) learning how to operate it.FOR ME a belt sander is the only way to go. I like using a 40 grit belt until the board is where I am happy with it then 60,80,120,150,180 one pass for each side and done. Way too long to change paper on a drum, not to mention burning, uneven surface, etc with a drum.
The one man cabinet shop I bought the 15" belt sander off of told me he wore out a 16/32 drum sander then bought the 15" belt and then replaced it with a 36" belt sander.
A big part of drum vs belt is how you personally like to work.

[Edward Dyas]

I don't care for a drum sander because of the problems you describe. Not everyone has the space for them but I like a stroke sander.

[John Sincerbeaux]

I owned a General IntÂ’l dbl drum sander for about 7 years. It was the single most useless, frustrating, and disappointing machine in my WW life.
I spent countless hours trying to calibrate that machine to make it perform. Countless hours wrestling the sandpaper hold-clips. Even a tech from GI admitted it was a poor design.
I researched everything I could find on making the machine perform.
The bottom line is Drum sanders try to defy physics and we all know which is king. Too much energy and too much heat in too little surface area is why there are mostly poor results. So guys answer this by taking super light passes and or modifying the drums or all of the above.
For me a machine I would own should “significantly” reduce my time doing a task while “significantly” increasing the accuracy, performance, and enjoyment. There is not a drum sander I know of that can fit my criteria.

[Greg Parrish]

Sold my 19-38 last month due to lack of use and lack of space. Would love a large belt sander instead but no room for that. My only reason for possible regret is on sanding thin material. But like others above, I always struggled with keeping it in alignment, getting results without burn marks or snipe, and honestly the dust produced is a pain to deal with, even with my Oneida v3000. It always seemed to make its way into the filter.

So, I’m back to hand sanding everything with my Festool sander and unless I end up getting into veneers or guitar work, it will prob stay this way for now. Maybe one day I’ll have room for a big belt sander though.

[John TenEyck]

I owned a General IntÂ’l dbl drum sander for about 7 years. It was the single most useless, frustrating, and disappointing machine in my WW life.
I spent countless hours trying to calibrate that machine to make it perform. Countless hours wrestling the sandpaper hold-clips. Even a tech from GI admitted it was a poor design.
I researched everything I could find on making the machine perform.
The bottom line is Drum sanders try to defy physics and we all know which is king. Too much energy and too much heat in too little surface area is why there are mostly poor results. So guys answer this by taking super light passes and or modifying the drums or all of the above.
For me a machine I would own should “significantly” reduce my time doing a task while “significantly” increasing the accuracy, performance, and enjoyment. There is not a drum sander I know of that can fit my criteria.

Well that's interesting. I own that same machine and it runs great and does a super job of sanding away planer marks and tear out, as well as sanding shop sawn veneer dead flat and smooth. My experience is the polar opposite of yours. Never had trouble setting up the machine nor had to do any recalibration. The clips are not the best design I've ever seen but they work well enough as long as you check them every hour or so and snug up the sanding strip, if needed.

Drum sanders don't try to defy physics, but their owners often do. I'm not saying you fall into that group, John, but many folks just don't understand what the limitations of these machines are, then get frustrated when they "don't work". If you use them in the way the manufacturer outlines in the owner's manual they work just fine. At least the two I've owned have.

John

[John TenEyck]

Sold my 19-38 last month due to lack of use and lack of space. Would love a large belt sander instead but no room for that. My only reason for possible regret is on sanding thin material. But like others above, I always struggled with keeping it in alignment, getting results without burn marks or snipe, and honestly the dust produced is a pain to deal with, even with my Oneida v3000. It always seemed to make its way into the filter.

So, I’m back to hand sanding everything with my Festool sander and unless I end up getting into veneers or guitar work, it will prob stay this way for now. Maybe one day I’ll have room for a big belt sander though.



Drum sanders (and wide belts) make a lot of fine dust and some of it gets past even the best home shop cyclones and into the filters. Over time, those filters will get more and more blinded which causes lower air flow which causes poor removal of dust from the drum sander which causes blinding and burning on the sanding strips. Someone else commented that you should clean the strips with a cleaner stick after every few boards. That tells me they likely don't have enough airflow to carry away the dust.

I had the same problems with my DC system until I re-engineered it to exhaust out a window rather than into a filter system. Of course that has it's own set of issues, but fines plugging up the filters isn't one of them. Constant air flow now, no build up of dust in the drum sander and no need to clean the sanding strips unless I hit a pitch pocket, etc.

John

[John Sincerbeaux]

John, I truly am happy for you and your enjoyment of that sander. I just never could settle into a loving relationship with that machine. I think, like me, there are many others that understand the inherent limitations of these sanders but expect a much higher performance return on their investment.

[Tim McCarthy]

I have a very old Kuster 36" two drum unit and I use it only for slabs that are over 20" wide (too big for my planer). I usually use 60 grit on the first drum and 80 grit on the second but I have paper down to 36 grit which I have used on occasion. The unit does not have variable feed but I am very happy with it. I had to plug off the single 4" dust port and run a 6" line to two 4" ports via a "Y". Since that fix the dust collection has been nothing short of awesome. I also had a real problem keeping paper on it until I figured out a system of spraying adhesive on the drums when changing paper. As someone mentioned, it helps to re-tighten the paper after a few passes and use the cleaner stick often. This thing is a beast with a 7 1/2 HP single phase motor plugged into a 50 amp welder outlet. I had the motor off once and it was VERY difficult to move. I now have more invested in paper than I paid for the machine. I paid $500 for it about a year after selling a 24/48 Performax for $800. The Kuster is not as fancy but it's at least three times as heavy and many times tougher and more durable. I don't consider it a planer or a "finishing" machine but it does what I expect of it.

[Bill Dufour]

If that one small dust port is it you do not have enough airflow. You should have at least two four inch ports feeding into a 6 inch mainline. At least 2hp dc with a cyclone to prevent fine dust clogging the filter.
Bill D

[Dueane Hicks]

It was new, just dented on the bottom. There is a good store in Auburn Wa that sells anything damaged at a big savings.

[Carl Beckett]

I had an early Perfomance 16/32 - it wasnt perfect
And a Grizzly 25" dual drum - it wasnt perfect either
And a 25" timesaver old school beast - still not perfect (pretty good but old, and heavy, and had some issues, which is why the price was low enough for me to buy it)
And a little 13" Reliant belt sander about the same size as the performax - definitely not perfect, but still my favorite sander and imo much better than the drums
And a Woodtek 13" belt sander - basically just a spifier version of the Reliant I bought because the price was right. It was not perfect.
And a 16" Jet/Powermatic overhung belt I have now - yep, not perfect

The quest continues...