Bench Height and Back Issues

[Joe Beaulieu]

Hey All,

If you have a minute, I would like to hear back from the taller among you and get an idea of the height you have your bench at. I am 6' 10" tall. Yeah - the weather up here is fine and I did play basketball - first two questions I get asked.. :p

I bought a European workbench about 30 years ago. It is a Diefenbach bench - nice piece of kit...(I wrote that just because I wanted to call a piece of equipment "kit" like the Brits do... :o) . Recently I have been having a bad bout of back issues, and I think it may be related, in part, to my bench height. I have the bench top sitting at 40" off the floor (the crease of my wrist is at 41" when standing straight). I am working at hand tool only use, and I am making a bunch of smaller dovetails. This is focused, bent over the bench kind of work. After a couple of hours today I was ready for glue factory - my back was in nasty spasm. So I decided to sit at my computer (something I do all day every day for a living) and write a note to y'all. I do understand that sitting at the computer isn't the best back exercise either. It is, however, tough to do much from a prone position.

So, If any of you with similar issues could just get back to me with your experience and set up, I would really appreciate it. I gonna go lay on the floor and roll a baseball on my spasming back. If any of you have back muscle spasms, that is a great way to get some relief.

Thanks folks, I appreciate any feedback

Joe

[Gary Ragatz]

I'm 6'1" and am comfortable with a 36" high bench, which is right around my wrist-height. For detailed work, like dove tails, you might want to consider a bench-top Moxon-type device. It gets your workpiece up where you can work on it without bending over so far (and, in my case, where you can see it a little more clearly).

[Brian Hale]

I've got 2 benches, can't remember the heights, but the second one i finished a few months ago and it's 8" taller than the first and was built because my back got tired/stiff bending over the short one. It's height is 3" lower than my forearm when parallel to the floor and is just right for sawing, marking and chisel work. I also have a box that's 6" x 6" x 8" that I rest one foot on when standing for long periods of time and that helps the back also.

Brian :)

[steven c newman]

Or..get a shop stool and have a seat..."If the mountain cannot come to.." comes to mind. When I do dovetails and the like, I am usually sitting down on a stool.

If your back is hurting from pushing a plane....learn to use your legs, instead of your back...

[David Bassett]

He doesn't address being 6'10", but Jim Tolpin has a video about sizing benches:

Jim Tolpin on Sizing Workbenches (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBS5-AV81lg)

I found it well thought out and informative and notice he has 3 different height workstations spread between two benches.

PS- another thank you to Ron Patrick for POSTING (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=2799132#post2799132) this.

[Larry Frank]

I think you need to do some experimenting to find the right height. Your back will tell you what is right. Also, work for short periods with frequent stretching breaks.

You might have someone take a video of you working and you can review to help figure if you are doing something that is causing the problem.

[Günter VögelBerg]

I have found that the right height for me is half way between my fingertips and my elbow. This is a bit taller than most books, etc recommend, but I have found it is more comfortable and works fairly well for both sitting and standing.

[Warren Mickley]

You can watch videos of gurus bending over to make saw cuts. They have the saw right near their cheek. This is bad for the back and the arm. Even when some of these guys make a so called "Moxon vise" they still bend over, cramp the arm and strain the back.

As a professional hand tool woodworker, if I did stuff like this I would be out of business. You want to stand nearly straight and saw at waist level. Stay away from the contortionist approach. Take care of your body first.

[chris carter]

I’m 6’6”. My bench height is 42-1/2”. I cannot fathom working at a lower height. All those rules about knuckles and wrists are for regular sized people. The human body is nothing but a collection of levers; primarily levers where the fulcrum is at one extreme end. The longer the lever, the more force is required to lift something against gravity at the same angle as a shorter lever. The force in this case is your lower back. If you are 5’9” go ahead and spend the entire day working with a 30 degree bend at your back. But at my height? Forget it. And at 6’10”???? that’s asking for back surgery down the road. At extreme heights you have to convert all these rules to be compatible with tall people levers.

Raise the bench height if you can. More importantly, wear a back support like what those folks in warehouses use. You can find them at any home improvement store for about $15. I keep one in my basement shop and wear it all the time when woodworking. With it I can go all day every day with zero problems. If I forget to put it on I will know it after an hour. Tall people have to treat our backs differently. I don’t like the shoulder strap on my back support so I just cut them off as I don’t see any need to undo it like warehouse workers frequently have to do. Bonus hint: for those horrible plane flights, put on a heat wrap and then put the back support over it as loose as you can get away with (under your shirt so you don't look like a crazy person). I learned that trick from another tall flier and it was a game changer.

[Prashun Patel]

Make a bench on a bench. FWW had a great article on "A Benchtop Bench" (#198–May/June 2008 Issue). It elevates the work, and includes a front-side moxon-style twin screw vise.

Benches are conventionally built for face planing. That has always struck me as a little anachronistic; it's great when probably 75% of a person's time might have been spent milling by hand. But nowadays, I agree, higher makes way more sense for efficiency and my back. And I'm not even that tall...

[Edwin Santos]

Get some cinder blocks or bricks and raise the bench up, incrementally if you must, until you find the height that is comfortable for you. Guidelines are great, but I think the right answer is personal.

Once you find the right height, if you think that leaving the blocks is too ghetto, then you can confidently build a plinth or feet or whatever necessary to modify your existing bench.

Edwin

[Jim Matthews]

I'm considerably shorter, but ran into similar problems when my first bench as too low.

If it's possible to separate tasks, is the bench high enough to comfortably cut dovetails, tenons and the like?

Do you have sufficient lighting?
I found that much brighter lights made detail work easier and I could stand further back.

Are all of your planes Western style, with handles?

Are your tools in their sharpest condition?

Do you stand on concrete?

[Phil Gaudio]

I had similar issues while cutting DTs on my bench (although I am considerably shorter) and found that a Moxon vise can do wonders for both your dovetails and your back. Here is pic of the Lie Nielsen DT vise on my bench with work and saw in position to show where your forearm should be: pretty much in line with the saw, while standing reasonably straight. So if you stood in front of your bench with your forearm parallel to the ground, the distance from the ground to your forearm would be your reference distance. From there you can subtract whatever you need to to account for the saw plate depth and height of work above the vise. This will give you the height the top of the vise should be.

[John Petsche]

I would consider the Noden adjust-a-bench that would give you a wide range of working height options. http://www.adjustabench.com/

Another option I have seen is a 2 height workbench as featured by popular woodworking. Here is the link below for the youtube video, fast forward to the 6 minute mark for the scissors lift option with leg risers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4Z886Wb9l4

A shop stool as previously mentioned is also another option, but I prefer adjustable benches for different types of work in addition to a shop stool.

John P.

[Jack Lemley]

I built a Jack Bench with MFT style top. I adjusts way higher than would be comfortable for me at 5' 6". It also lowers far enough that I can work sitting down for a lot of stuff which my back greatly appreciates!

Jack

[William Fretwell]

Joe, there is a lot very traditional thinking tied to benches. The ‘traditional’ heights are ancient and based on when men were smaller. People are swayed by this when building what is a major project for most.
My bench is 38” for my 6’ 1” plus 1” work boots. Any shorter and I would ache. Your bench may need to be 47” for comfort.
Building a rigid bench is harder the higher you go, you need a beefier bit of kit!

[Hilton Ralphs]

You can watch videos of gurus bending over to make saw cuts. They have the saw right near their cheek. This is bad for the back and the arm. Even when some of these guys make a so called "Moxon vise" they still bend over, cramp the arm and strain the back.

As a professional hand tool woodworker, if I did stuff like this I would be out of business. You want to stand nearly straight and saw at waist level. Stay away from the contortionist approach. Take care of your body first.

Great advice, thanks.

[chris carter]

Joe, there is a lot very traditional thinking tied to benches. The ‘traditional’ heights are ancient and based on when men were smaller. People are swayed by this when building what is a major project for most.


Not only were people considerably shorter back then, but metal bodied planes have totes that are a few inches lower than their traditional wooden bench plane brethren. Those traditional guidelines were developed for shorter people who were also holding handles that were two to three inches higher off the work!

[ken hatch]

This all comes back to what I've been saying for a few years about bench builds, well maybe more than a few. First forget what is fashionable, it's fashion and will change just like bell bottoms and side burns did. Second, bigger, thicker, heaver, and more gadgets is not always better and third it will normally take several builds to figure out what drives you barking mad and what works. Build your first benches cheap and fast, go to work on them and when you can no longer put up with what doesn't work build another. After a few cycles you will know what works and what doesn't, with that knowledge build your "good" bench. It doesn't take long to hone in on the best height, size and work holding for you if you pay attention.

I personally like a simple bench with that is between 870-880mm (~34 1/2") with just a face vise. I'm 1730mm (5'8") with short legs and long body and arms and use both wood stock and metal planes. I use machines to size wood which means the jointers seldom come out to play. If you work differently and are bigger or smaller your size and height bench may/will differ and the only way to find the correct size is to work on it.

ken

[Mike Cornwall]

What works for me is to find the bench height that makes the work come out best. I haven’t found anything that comes out best when I’m sitting.
I have a bench, a table, and a counter at three heights. Marking out and detail stuff comes out best when I work around the height of my navel. Chopping and planing I do lower, around the height of my inseam/first knuckle. Assembling parts works best around my hip bones. That’s what I do but I’m kind of a hack.
With that said, at 6’4” I have been dealing with back problems and fatigue my whole life and doing some pushups in the morning while walking the dog has made a lot bigger difference than tweaking the ergonomics of my benches.

[Jack Frederick]

Experiment. Get a couple 4x4, 6's and/or 8's and place them under the legs of your current bench lengthwise and see how you make out.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I'm with Steve Newman on this one. Using a stool works great for me too when cutting dovetails.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm with Steve Newman on this one. Using a stool works great for me too when cutting dovetails.

+1 on that, sometimes my dovetails are cut from a bucket seat:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?226504

jtk

[Phil Mueller]

I’ll venture to say that if you sit at a desk all day long, that that is the main source of your problem, not the few hours at a work bench. Look into a sit/stand desk, get a good ergonomic chair, and set up your desk/keyboard/monitor/lighting following proper ergonomic rules. At your height, I’ll bet your leaning over all day if using a standard height desk.

[Marinus Loewensteijn]

When I was growing up I was too short for the workbench so made a platform to stand on along the whole length of the bench. If you leave some gaps between the planks then all the shavings for fall away and you are not stepping around in the middle of it. For different tasks I had two other ones with different heights. It also helps to keep your feet warm and wood is not as hard on your feet as concrete.

[lowell holmes]

I would make leg extensions with 3/4" dowel pins in the top, drill 3/4" holes in the legs and raise the bench to a comfortable height.

[Will Blick]

First, sorry bout your back pain... its horrible, it can take the fun out of anything!!

I had horrible back pain for years, so bad, I would give up ww for long stretches, just hated feeling miserable, pills, etc. After years of injections, pills and docs, I went Gluten Free for other reasons, guess what, its been 4 years, zero back pain. Go figure, huh. Not suggesting that is the answer for you, but wanted to share, as nothing beats getting rid of the problem. Of course at my age, if I bend over all day, I can experience a bit of soreness which rarely lasts and I dont even pop a Tylenol, but regardless, even though the worst pain is behind me, I am still cognizant about bending over excessively, we never forget.

At only 6'3", I have all my tops at about 40", even my TS and router table. I also own two Noden benches, and really like em, cause its not just about the height of the top, its about the height of what you are working on. When I am working on taller projects, I lower the Noden bench, what a relief that is. I have work benches as well, they are about 36" for hand planning. So I pick and choose the height based on the task. You got some great advise here. I would agree with others, raise your bench even if temp. to determine if it will give you some relief. If so, then find a way to make that heigh permanent... I know, it requires being on the floor alot, and that sucks at your height...maybe find someone to help you!!

Sure hope you find a solution!

[alan west]

I built my first bench the way you are supposed to for hand tool work, close to the height of your palms allowing my back to get into hand planing. I spent much time at the bench building dressers and after a few months my back started to really hurt. I thought I was just getting old until I stumbled on a video from Paul Sellers about bench height. So I built some "shoes" for my bench and elevated it about 4 or 5 inches. Back pain went away in a few days. No noticeable problems with hand planing other than my forearms were a little sore for a few days.

[steven c newman]

A few numbers about my bench....

I am 5'11" tall. Top of the bench is 33-1/2", and comes up to my wrist....

Top of my shop stool is 24"...

Then figure how thick a board is while sitting on my bench's top.

I tend to keep the baseline of dovetails just a hair above the tops of the wooden jaws in my end vise. I have a goose neck light I can sit right over the work....camera doesn't like the lamp's effect on the colours it sees.


maybe set the height of the OP's bench top to about the height of his wrist. Read the book of Sloyd about how to stand and push a plane. I try to use my back leg to push with, and move my legs instead of bending my back...instead of planting my feet, and leaning forward as the plane goes along.
415595
However, when something like this needs done, I clamp the edge as high as I can. Board length here is 49", plane is 24".....took 3 steps...one to start the No.8, second near the middle of the length, last to get to the end....Plane weighs in at just under 10 pounds....Much easier to stand me up, back up a couple steps, and have another go at it....wood is Ash.

On shorter stuff,
415596
I tend to stand right about the middle, maybe a tad towards the starting end..
415597
Step forward with the left leg, pushing with the right leg, elbow of the right arm is level. Complete the cut, step back and then repeat as needed.
415598
Afternoon's work...had 4 drawer front to groove, as well...

[Tom Bender]

Definitely two benches for different tasks.

[Zach Dillinger]

I'm 6'5" and work at a 34" bench. I use wooden planes pretty much exclusively so, when planing, it is effectively about 36" tall. for closeup benchwork like dovetails, I sit down on a sawbench to do the work. For chopping mortises, I sit on the work on a low bench and work away.