Fritz & Franz jig vs parallel positioner?

[Dave Cav]

Or is this apples and oranges?

I'm getting used to my new slider. I made a F&F jig and really like the versatility and ease of making small rips and crosscuts. I've been watching a lot of slider videos, primarily Steve from Extreme Woodworker and Sam Blasco, and I'm in the process of building a home made parallel positioner to see if I like it before I shell out a couple hundred bucks for an Incra LS positioner.

Steve is a huge proponent of the F&F jig. He's lukewarm at best regarding the parallel positioner; in one video he mentions it in passing and says he rarely or never uses it. In another video featuring the parallel fence for ripping, his presentation in the video seems to suggest he would rather not even be discussing the parallel positioner, let alone doing a video on it....or maybe he just had bad indigestion that day.

On the other hand, Sam doesn't ever mention the F&F jig, doesn't seem to use one, and uses the parallel positioner quite a bit. For small and medium crosscuts he uses a short crosscut fence with an Incra 3000 head grafted onto the factory quadrant and multiple length stop setups.

It seems to me that the F&F jig is great at small to medium crosscuts and quick single cuts, small to medium rips, and multiple rips and crosscuts when used with the stop blocks. It also doesn't take up much room, and comes on and off the saw easily.

The parallel positioner seems to be more suited to rip cuts in medium to larger stock, and doesn't appear to have much if any utility for crosscuts. It has to be mounted and unmounted on the side track on the wagon, and stored somewhere when not in use. It also seems that I could more or less duplicate the functions of the parallel positioner by using both the short and long crosscut fences and their respective flip stocks to hold the stock once the stock had been crosscut to length, although the parallel fence would have more flexibility in terms of random lengths of stock.

There does seem to be some overlap in their functions, but is it worth the trouble (and expense) to build a high tech parallel fence setup given there are so many other ways to rip on a slider?

[Wakahisa Shinta]

I use the F&F jig for small pieces of wood and some ripping of smaller (probably up to 2 feet length). Just now, I was cutting 1.5 x 1.5 square stock from scrap to make holders for marking gauges using the F&F jig. Larger and repetitive ripping is done with either a homemade parallel rip fence or the Felder OEM rip fence with hold down clamps or use the saw's main rip fence just like a cabinet saw. I find the parallel rip fence is very useful for ripping and sizing sheet goods for cabinet sides. I made one from left over plywood and one piece of hardwood for the fence itself. All I need it to do is to be a reference point, x distance from the blade. The more fancy version allows for easier adjustment of the rip width without having to take another measure each time the rip width changes (Sam's, Lambs tools works's, etc). I tried using the short cross cut fence, but found it annoying when stocks have different lengths.

[Jim Becker]

I had a "slapped together" parallel positioning thingie that I use for parallel ripping in conjunction with my short miter fence and stops prior to making my F&F jig. I now use the F&F for any of this kind of parallel ripping tasks, both for small and thin things as well as for parallel ripping boards up to the capacity I can fit between the two ends of the F&F jig on my slider's wagon.

[Tom Bain]

Everybody works differently and has their own preferences and such. Personally, I feel both are useful. F&F is great for quick rips in short/med stock of moderate width. I prefer the parallel jig when either (a) the stock gets longer than about 4’ or (b) the width of the rip is more than a foot, or (c) I’m making a lot of repetitive rips. I have the Felder parallel rip fence which comes on and off pretty quickly. I don’t have any experience with the more elaborate Incra-style systems so those might be more involved to set-up and take-off.

[johnny means]

what is this parallel positioner?

[Dave Cav]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNA8a0aN-BY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ8mPBm2VdY

[Mike King]

Get a couple of parallel fences and you will never look back. Lamb tool works fence is awesome.

The fritz and Franz is good for small pieces, but for ripping lengths the parallel fence is vastly superior.

[David Davies]

Mike...why two parallel fences. Steve Rowe in his video only uses one parallel fence.
Dave

[Rick Potter]

Not trying to be sarcastic here, but why not use the rip fence on the saw? I can see getting the first straight edge on a board using the parallel fences, but once you are done with that, what is wrong with just using the rip fence, and pushing the work through with the slider?

I like to get the sides parallel, and cut ends square separately. Anything under 16" wide I do ends on my RAS which is dead on 90 degrees, and quick & repeatable using stops.

It works for me, but then, I am not trying to get accuracy by the thousands of an inch either.

Honest question...not trying to be difficult.

[Brian Lamb]

One vs. two is probably our most asked question. Two main reasons, the use of one with the cross cut fence stop means you will have your stops roughly 20" or more apart. For shorter pieces you will have to resort to a piece of wood to act like a bridge. With two, you can set them as far apart or close together as your work dictates.

Second reason, and what I find I do the most, is I have a width set on the parallel fences and then have my cross cut stops set to trim the panels to length after the width has been done. this way you can works through the width and length cuts with one handling of the piece up on the slider, and have multiple length stops if required.

I hope that helps.

[Mike King]

Not trying to be sarcastic here, but why not use the rip fence on the saw? I can see getting the first straight edge on a board using the parallel fences, but once you are done with that, what is wrong with just using the rip fence, and pushing the work through with the slider?

I like to get the sides parallel, and cut ends square separately. Anything under 16" wide I do ends on my RAS which is dead on 90 degrees, and quick & repeatable using stops.

It works for me, but then, I am not trying to get accuracy by the thousands of an inch either.

Honest question...not trying to be difficult.

Why not just have a cabinet saw then? Using a slider involves learning different methods of work. Once you learn and use those methods of work, you will either see the benefit or revert to your old ways. In which case, you might as well sell the slider.

IMHO, the slider is a vastly superior and safer tool than the cabinet saw. I would never go back.

Mike

[Mike King]

Mike...why two parallel fences. Steve Rowe in his video only uses one parallel fence.
Dave
Brian answered it better than I could, but I'd just add that perhaps one reason Steve Rowe doesn't use parallel fences is because he only has one. Another great use for two parallel fences is as a taper device.

Mike

[Jim Becker]

Not trying to be sarcastic here, but why not use the rip fence on the saw?
Honest question...not trying to be difficult.

Quite simply because for any slider larger than a short stroke, you cannot stand in the position that you would want to be to rip boards along the fence like you would with a cabinet saw. The support structure for the wagon gets in your way. The secondary reason is that doing both sides on the slider wagon creates an edge that's nearly pristine with no minor deviations like you will get when your hands are used to push a board along a fence. I pretty much never edge joint anything at this point...I flatten and thickness first and then rip using the slider wagon. As was already noted...it's just a different technique.

Editing my post to add a photo to illustrate what I describe about the physical nature of the tool...if you look carefully, you can see that the body of the saw under the slider wagon extends about a foot and a half back from the fence rail location so you cannot stand where one would stand when ripping with a cabinet saw...it's physically impossible. And mine is only an 8'6" slider. Many folks have 10' sliders which extend back farther. I've gotten used to "new ways" pretty well since I bought this tool And I don't work with sheet stock all that much, honestly. I process a lot of solid stock.

https://zfyzua.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mWBwCCeHA5NKat_vVZm8t8oTZo_KF-fM6P6U5flGUR2R63x_VDtwIQ5fmT5HTe9n8ud11Vj7b-DxrAcCXWvW1bE_DjKdJiVtm0s4xPqubDAvOH9koQMTSU2_7iKZ ClakwolH741iUxXvKB3pzD5HvtJiaO9vzR2G21WmMGjZD_ftku YjyoXbpwkCsBZxfGM3VYyio_ZWWTkQ8qQBTFaJzGg?width=10 24&height=464&cropmode=none

[Rick Potter]

Great answer Jim. My slider is a short stroke, and I was not considering the longer sliders blocking easy use of the rip fence.

Mike...I did go back to the dark side once, a few years back, when I sold my KF 700. Later, I decided to give sliders another try and I have had a Griz 623 slider for a couple years now, and have been trying to use it for more procedures than when I had the original slider back in 2000.

A week ago I bought a used MM C130 combo machine, mostly for the jointer/planer and mortiser. The slider was an extra bonus so I guess I need to sell the Griz now. As mentioned above, I have been trying hard to use the slider for more things for the last two years.

Don't tell anyone, but I still have the cab saw.

Just a struggling hobbyist/tool junkie here.

[johnny means]

Not trying to be sarcastic here, but why not use the rip fence on the saw? I can see getting the first straight edge on a board using the parallel fences, but once you are done with that, what is wrong with just using the rip fence, and pushing the work through with the slider?

I like to get the sides parallel, and cut ends square separately. Anything under 16" wide I do ends on my RAS which is dead on 90 degrees, and quick & repeatable using stops.

It works for me, but then, I am not trying to get accuracy by the thousands of an inch either.

Honest question...not trying to be difficult.

Once you get into some real woodworking:D, and your trying to get a glue ready edge on a 10'x18" slab of 10/4 white oak, you realize how helpful the sliding carriage is.

[johnny means]

Why not just have a cabinet saw then? Using a slider involves learning different methods of work. Once you learn and use those methods of work, you will either see the benefit or revert to your old ways. In which case, you might as well sell the slider.

IMHO, the slider is a vastly superior and safer tool than the cabinet saw. I would never go back.

Mike
Personally, I don't feel any shop without both is under equipped. To me they're like an impact driver and a drill, similar form, some overlap, but they really are two different machines.

[David Kumm]

The rip fence on a long slider still serves a purpose, that is why it is still there and why it slides. Slide it forward and it serves as a stop ( and gives you enough reference ) and you rip just as with a cabinet saw. great when you need to rip strips. My saw has a 60" rip capacity and I use the fence as a stop all the time. Dave

[Rick Potter]

Sheesh, Johnny,

Never even seen a stick that big, much less try to lift it:eek:

[Mark e Kessler]

I agree, while I use the slide side as much as possible I also use the rip fence occasionally for traditional ripping mostly 8" and under, I don' find it awkward or unsafe in anyway.

Mark


The rip fence on a long slider still serves a purpose, that is why it is still there and why it slides. Slide it forward and it serves as a stop ( and gives you enough reference ) and you rip just as with a cabinet saw. great when you need to rip strips. My saw has a 60" rip capacity and I use the fence as a stop all the time. Dave

[Jim Becker]

Sheesh, Johnny,

Never even seen a stick that big, much less try to lift it:eek:

I have two pieces of Black Walnut that a client dropped off on Sunday in my garage bay...11' long and ~24" wide. I need to make a table top from them. Unfortunately...they are also too big for my slider so I'm going to have to get creative. LOL (and draft a shop assistant for moving them around)

[Jon Snider]

I’ll hop in here and hopefully not put foot in mouth. To somewhat echo Rick, the rip fence does have one appeal to me - I can rip lots of long, thin stock for boat gunwales/ chines/ etc and know I’ll have the same exact width of every cut. How and where I’ll stand I’m still learning. It still seems to me a perfectly good option is to the right of the blade behind the fence using left hand vs reaching over and using right hand as Steve does in one video.

I’ve read Brian’s post once and need to spend some more time with it to better understand, esp since I bought two of his parallel fences! But so far, having not yet used them, it seems that to rip the same long stock as above I’ll have to remeasure for each cut, from parallel fence to blade and reset the fences, as the width of each board changes with each rip, or use of new boards.

It certainly could be that I haven’t gotten this technique down yet:) Maybe use the rip fence, pulled back, as a reference?

thx. Jon.

[Brian Lamb]

Hi Jon,

You calibrate the fence scale to the blade (instructions are on the website in PDF format), then you read directly off the tape measure or DRO (in the case of the DRO version). You can easily start with say a 10" wide board, say you want 3/8" strips and your blade is 1/8", cut at 10" to clean up the edge of the board, cut the next pass at 9.5", the next at 9" and so on. With the DRO units, they have an incremental setting, you can zero the unit, move .500, then cut, zero and move again .500 and so on. You don't loose your absolute position either.

That's one way. I quite often will set the fences at 3/8" and using some scraps of lumber clamp down the board, leaving the wide width out on the cast iron table, you cut a strip, re-clamp the board and cut another, not having to move any of your stops. This way you can make strips until the piece is too narrow to use any longer.

Again, instructions on the website and they just scratch the surface of what you can do. Each person will have their own methods that work best for them.

[johnny means]

Sheesh, Johnny,

Never even seen a stick that big, much less try to lift it:eek:
Living that slab life.

[Jon Snider]

Thanks much Brian. This is very helpful, and sounds like exactly what I need. I need to get rear in gear and spend some quality time with your fences and website. Now that shop build is almost done I’m thinking I can do that.


Hi Jon,

You calibrate the fence scale to the blade (instructions are on the website in PDF format), then you read directly off the tape measure or DRO (in the case of the DRO version). You can easily start with say a 10" wide board, say you want 3/8" strips and your blade is 1/8", cut at 10" to clean up the edge of the board, cut the next pass at 9.5", the next at 9" and so on. With the DRO units, they have an incremental setting, you can zero the unit, move .500, then cut, zero and move again .500 and so on. You don't loose your absolute position either.

That's one way. I quite often will set the fences at 3/8" and using some scraps of lumber clamp down the board, leaving the wide width out on the cast iron table, you cut a strip, re-clamp the board and cut another, not having to move any of your stops. This way you can make strips until the piece is too narrow to use any longer.

Again, instructions on the website and they just scratch the surface of what you can do. Each person will have their own methods that work best for them.

[John Sincerbeaux]

Like many here, I feel the F&F jig(s) are invaluable for sliders. I have had my slider for nearly three years now and I just last week ordered a “Rip Fence” for the slider. That’s what Martin calls it. I think of it as a parallel jig.
I don’t see the need for two parallel jigs when you can use the CC fence/stop as the first reference stop. Apparently Martin does as well. See pic:
Another nice thing about the F&F jig is that you only have to measure one jig then marry the opposing jig/stop to the first.
415158415159

[Mike King]

Like many here, I feel the F&F jig(s) are invaluable for sliders. I have had my slider for nearly three years now and I just last week ordered a “Rip Fence” for the slider. That’s what Martin calls it. I think of it as a parallel jig.
I don’t see the need for two parallel jigs when you can use the CC fence/stop as the first reference stop. Apparently Martin does as well. See pic:
Another nice thing about the F&F jig is that you only have to measure one jig then marry the opposing jig/stop to the first.
415158415159

Note that Brian's guides are available to fit a Martin saw. While they are not cheap, I suspect that they are less expensive than the Martin option. I also suspect that there are folk with Martin saws that have purchased his guides.

Mike

[Brian Lamb]

Yes, we make them to fit the Martin machines and also Minimax, Hammer, and Felder (both X-roll and pre-X-roll machines). As for John's comment about one, again, you have the outrigger in the middle , so shorter parts become an issue, also, just because you only see one fence in the advertising brochure, doesn't mean you can't use two.

[scott vroom]

Reading these threads makes me appreciate my decision to go with a Hammer K3 short stroke slider. It allows me to crosscut a full sheet, and with the carriage locked it functions ergonomically identical to a cabinet saw. I use 2 push sticks, one to push the stock toward the blade and another to hold the stock against the fence, fingers never get close to the blade. Glue line edges would be nice but a quick pass on the jointer does the trick. I use the fence and out-feed stand for ripping full sheets with minor effort. Sam dismissed it as a glorified crosscut saw, which to some extent is true, but it does everything I need for cabinets and furniture without overtaking my shop space, with no need for expensive work around jigs. If I were a commercial shop processing sheet goods all day I'd feel different, but that's not what I do. :D

[Wakahisa Shinta]

I sometimes use two parallel guides/fences/stops when I only want two points of contact for the stock being cut/rip. It is usually when I want to reserve the cross cut fence stops for trimming stock to length. Standing facing the saw sliding table, I will set up the two parallel stops on the right side of the slider, leaving room for me to stand right behind the out-rigger table to use the cross cut fence and its stops for the trimming to length operation. With two cross cut fence stops set for two different lengths, I can performing parallel ripping to size, move to the out-rigger and cut the stocks to lengths. This works very efficiently for cutting a bunch of stiles and rails and only require a one-time setting up. Without the OEM accessories in the past, I clamped scrap wood sticks to the sliding table extension and used them as parallel stops/guides/fences. Inelegance, but worked.

I frequently use the OEM rip fence for ripping using the same technique as that of using a cabinet saw, except that I stand to the left of the saw blade and push the stock with my right hand using a push stick, which is sacrificial and has many saw kerfs. First, lock the sliding table...set the rip fence...if the part is too narrow, remove/swing away the overhead saw guard...remove the main cross cut fence if needed to not interfere with the material...rip using both hands with left hand exerting slight pressure toward the rip fence and down toward the sliding table, while right hand push stock through with push stick. If the stock is long, I use the sliding table to push the stock, referencing against the rip fence and not the cross-cut fence because of the toe outs amount for both sliding table travel and rip fence (in my case 0.003" for each). This is faster than setting up the parallel guides/stops/fences and is my way of producing thin strips (i.e. edge bands, etc.). Though my preferred method of making edge band is with the band saw and planner.

My next experiment is doing the above, except with a power feeder. This will really keep my fingers way a way from the blade.

My $0.02.

WS

[Steve Wurster]

Revisiting this thread since I just used a positioner and my outrigger fence this weekend to rip a bunch of pieces. I've got an Incra positioner attached to a jig that registers against the little support table on my Hammer K3. It's calibrated to the blade, as is the fence on the outrigger. I use a Kreg clamp on the positioner side to hold down the pieces, and just push on through. Works great for anything that can fit on the table.

415465

For much shorter pieces I have and still use my Fritz and Franz jig. It needs a little adjustment however, since it's not perfect. I'll work on that at some point...

[Joe Jensen]

I used the "parallel positioner" a lot, and I do find that I use the bars with different settings for tapered cuts more than I expected to. I see the F&F as more of a cutoff jig and the parallel guide bars for precision ripping. If I need a quick rip that's cabinet saw tolerance I use the rip fence on the my Felder saw. If I want precision and the cut quality you get when stock is clamped to the slide I use the parallel bars from Brian Lamb. Since I got air clamps I don't use the F&F jig. I don't think I've used it for over 5 years. Not even sure where it is in the shop.

[elliot worrall]

Just wanted to say especial thanks to Jim. You always write in such a concise and simple manner that is invaluable for a layman like me.

[Dave Cav]

This has turned into a great thread; lots of good info here.

[Mark e Kessler]

Jim,
What blade tooth count are you using? I have been using 48 atb and the cut is pretty darn good but not sure I would get a no glue line glue up with it maybe on softwoods (haven't experimented yet) I have actually found my 36 tooth is the best all around blade.


Quite simply because for any slider larger than a short stroke, you cannot stand in the position that you would want to be to rip boards along the fence like you would with a cabinet saw. The support structure for the wagon gets in your way. The secondary reason is that doing both sides on the slider wagon creates an edge that's nearly pristine with no minor deviations like you will get when your hands are used to push a board along a fence. I pretty much never edge joint anything at this point...I flatten and thickness first and then rip using the slider wagon. As was already noted...it's just a different technique.

Editing my post to add a photo to illustrate what I describe about the physical nature of the tool...if you look carefully, you can see that the body of the saw under the slider wagon extends about a foot and a half back from the fence rail location so you cannot stand where one would stand when ripping with a cabinet saw...it's physically impossible. And mine is only an 8'6" slider. Many folks have 10' sliders which extend back farther. I've gotten used to "new ways" pretty well since I bought this tool And I don't work with sheet stock all that much, honestly. I process a lot of solid stock.

https://zfyzua.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mWBwCCeHA5NKat_vVZm8t8oTZo_KF-fM6P6U5flGUR2R63x_VDtwIQ5fmT5HTe9n8ud11Vj7b-DxrAcCXWvW1bE_DjKdJiVtm0s4xPqubDAvOH9koQMTSU2_7iKZ ClakwolH741iUxXvKB3pzD5HvtJiaO9vzR2G21WmMGjZD_ftku YjyoXbpwkCsBZxfGM3VYyio_ZWWTkQ8qQBTFaJzGg?width=10 24&height=464&cropmode=none

[Carl Beckett]

This is an interesting thread, and it is on my list to try a parallel guide. I was going to make it out of an incra positioning fence.

Where I am skeptical, is the need on longer pieces to register both front and back of a board. Personally I do not usually work to 'exact' values so incrementing two guides seems like an extra step I would not like (plus anytime two things need positioned precisely there is room for error between them).

But for ... say 1ft to 3ft long pieces, of which is a common size range, a single guide should be good enough to register for repeatable cuts. Again if absolute increments are used they should come out the same. I wonder how often I will end up simply letting the waste be on the right of the blade, and using the fence to set repeatable cuts at the desired width without moving the guide (it will depend on the width of the desired piece, but I can imagine doing this again because I dont often care about absolute values and just want reproducible values)

I am not at the stage where I can imagine never using the saw rip fence, I still do that.

Note I have a short stroke slider. (MM CU300). Note I am a hobbiest, and do not do 'real' woodworking. Note I do not have cash oozing out my ears. Which are all considerations when it comes to practical limits on how I work.

[Jim Becker]

Jim,
What blade tooth count are you using? I have been using 48 atb and the cut is pretty darn good but not sure I would get a no glue line glue up with it maybe on softwoods (haven't experimented yet) I have actually found my 36 tooth is the best all around blade.

I'm using the 12" Forrest WW-II 48T at this point...they replaced the same in 10" and 40T. While there are a lot of blade choices that are certainly worthy, I've stuck with the WW-II because I'm happy with the performance, both new and after re-sharpening and because they are all "precisely" .125" thick. I still have the 20T 10" ripping blade for when that is appropriate, although it's not helpful if I have something really thick to break down...for that, I stick with the 12" 48T and just cut slower.

Relative to "glue line" cuts...if the blade is sharp, the FLAT material is clamped down on the wagon and the feed rate is steady, the surface is pretty darn nice. As sharpness degrades, so does the cut quality, but still less than if I was hand-feeding the material along a fence.

[Brian Lamb]

This is an interesting thread, and it is on my list to try a parallel guide. I was going to make it out of an incra positioning fence.

Where I am skeptical, is the need on longer pieces to register both front and back of a board. Personally I do not usually work to 'exact' values so incrementing two guides seems like an extra step I would not like (plus anytime two things need positioned precisely there is room for error between them).


I just did a kitchen remodel and was cutting toe kicks, 3 7/8" at one end, 4 1/8" at the other on a 6 foot long stretch. Also I cut tapered legs using two units set to create a 3/4" taper over 24", by just setting the two fences 24" apart and setting one stop 3/4" back from the other.

Getting them set accurately to each other, I made a couple of videos on youtube showing how I set up and do that.

First one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xcjWUX4QqM

Second one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4BB5IonNvM

[Rick Potter]

Thanks for the videos Brian. Very helpful.

[Howard Dean]

Have you experienced any issues with the wood moving around in the FF jig?

[Erik Loza]

Have you experienced any issues with the wood moving around in the FF jig?

Howard, just chiming in. The only F&F jig I have personally used is the one we sell, which is a rebadged Ruwi unit. The jaws are lined with this elastomeric-type edgebanding. Grips the wood really well. If I were DIY-ing my own, I would probably bond some some neoprene or possibly fine-grit sandpaper on the inside of the jaws. Hope this helps.

Erik

[Howard Dean]

Many thanks. This is helpful. I’m many months still from receiving the K3 79x48 I ordered the other day, so am taking the opportunity to do some research on what jigs to build. I see that some people are FF devotees (for both small and rip cuts), some prefer a parallel fence, and some use both. I’m looking for simple and repeatable accuracy with as little fiddling as possible.

[Lisa Starr]

I use both a Fritz and Franz Jig and a pair of Parallel Positioners that I made. They both are tools I wouldn't want to be without. The F & F excels at small to medium crosscuts and rip cuts. On the other hand, if I set the pair of the Parallel Positions, I can rip easily and accurately with no thought to the "step" between the wagon and the saw table. I think they both have their place.

[Howard Dean]

Many thanks Lisa. What did you use to make the parallel positioners?

[Lisa Starr]

Howard, mine are made of aluminum with a couple of 3d printed pieces. I posted photos of them here on sawmill creek. You should be able to locate the post.

[Jim Becker]

Howard my "super expensive" (not!) F&F uses peel and stick sandpaper. No slippage when used properly.

[Rod Sheridan]

Have you experienced any issues with the wood moving around in the FF jig?

Hi Howard, mine has T slot moulding in the faces, no it doesn’t slip.

I use mine for cross-cutting, ripping and cutting tapers…..regards, Rod

[Kevin Jenness]

I have a parallel device but it doesn't see much use except for occasional wide rips. It takes a minute to clamp on the carriage and then it is another thing to maneuver around. It would be more useful with a flip stop.

My Fritz and Frans drop into the table slot instantly when needed, have flip stops and scales for up to 12" cuts, don't slip with sandpaper glued to the faces and hang over the left side of the carriage only a couple of inches. I use them a lot, for short crosscuts, long and short parallel rips and tapers.

I use the rip fence too, as a bump stop, and conventionally for rips longer than the carriage travel and for ripping long narrow strips that can't be held securely on the carriage.

[Derek Cohen]

I use this one a lot ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/ParallelGuideForK3Slider_html_1fdf2a4a.jpg

Details here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/ParallelGuideForK3Slider.html

Much preferred to a F&F - greater precision and repeatability.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tom Bain]

Many thanks. This is helpful. I’m many months still from receiving the K3 79x48 I ordered the other day, so am taking the opportunity to do some research on what jigs to build. I see that some people are FF devotees (for both small and rip cuts), some prefer a parallel fence, and some use both. I’m looking for simple and repeatable accuracy with as little fiddling as possible.

Howard -- I use both depending on the cut, but the F&F sees way more action in every day usage than the parallel positioner. As others have mentioned, its easier to take on and off quickly. Now, if I'm building a bank of cabinets and need to rip a whole bunch of cabinet sides, then the parallel positioner comes out.

[Howard Dean]

All very helpful. Many thanks!

[Michael Drew]

Howard - It would seem you and I are on the same path. I just ordered the 79X48 saw as well, and have been researching the various jigs and devices to use with the machine. The F&F jig looks to be a no-brainer for me and I will most definitely make one. Gotta admit, I have not heard of the parallel positioner till I saw this thread. I'm not sure if I'd use/need it...., but one can never had too many widgets I suppose.

Had you had opportunity to watch any of this guy's slider saw videos on Youtube (extreem woodworker)? I've learned quite a few things that I'll apply to my machine when I arrives. This is one where he updates his F&F jig to allow for easier use. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OokHlPj4vqQ

[Dan Friedrichs]

I've made some F&F's with sandpaper, but a rubber material seems to work better. McMaster sells 1" tall strips, 1/32" thick, in a 3' roll for $5. https://www.mcmaster.com/9023K79/

[Howard Dean]

Hi Michael. Yes I have seen those videos on YouTube. It seems that an FF jig can serve dual purposes (cross cut small pieces and rip boards). I’ll need do some more research to get a better sense of what I want to do. I might ultimately build off of Derek’s design and either use aluminum extrusion or repurpose an Incra cross cut fence.

[Michael Drew]

Hi Michael. Yes I have seen those videos on YouTube. It seems that an FF jig can serve dual purposes (cross cut small pieces and rip boards). I’ll need do some more research to get a better sense of what I want to do. I might ultimately build off of Derek’s design and either use aluminum extrusion or repurpose an Incra cross cut fence.

Well there is no rule that says you can't have both.... :)

Derek's jig looks way to amazing to not make. I have already printed that design and dropped in my folder of 'things to do'.....

[Jim Becker]

Derek is the master when it comes to fixtures like this!

[Steve Wurster]

Derek is the master when it comes to fixtures like this!

Indeed he is. I think I've said on here before that Derek's jigs are nicer than any of my projects.

[Michael Schuch]

I am new to sliding table saws myself. What is a parallel positioner?

I have watched MANY youtube videos on sliding table saws... but I would appreciate any recommendation for good sliding table saw videos, especially ones that highlight different ways to use a sliding table saw.

[Jim Becker]

I am new to sliding table saws myself. What is a parallel positioner?

I have watched MANY youtube videos on sliding table saws... but I would appreciate any recommendation for good sliding table saw videos, especially ones that highlight different ways to use a sliding table saw.

These are devices that attach to the slider's wagon to allow one to take a piece of material that has a straight edge and create a cut parallel to that edge by moving the wagon. It's the equivalent of parallel ripping with a fence, but using just the saw wagon. It's accurate and the quality of cut tends to be excellent because the material is being supported while moving through the cut by the wagon...in many cases, folks will actually clamp down the material. The quality of cut can be so good, assuming that the board is flat, that no edge jointing is necessary.

[Mike Stelts]

While we're on the subject, has anyone sourced (or makes and will sell) metal inserts for the Felder X-Roll channel with a threaded hole, ideally 5/16". I'd like to leave these in the channel and attach jigs by screwing them into two inserts. For example, if I were skilled enough to copy Derek's parallel device, I'd use two inserts to hold it in place. Right now, I do something similar to attach clamps; but using wood, which doesn't have the same tolerances and longevity.

[Jim Becker]

Mike, make your own out of something like scrap oak and use threaded inserts. That's what I did for the Minimax slider. You can mill the wood for a slip fit and the cost is very nice.:)