Water in oil?

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

Although I've sworn off them before, in a moment of weakness I stopped at WalMart yesterday to get the oil changed whilst shopping for the Chrsitmas tree I can't seem to talk my wife out of getting every year. :o

The techies (three of them) called me out and told me there was water in the oil. :eek: Showed me the greasy, light colored crap on the underside of the filler cap and on the vent thingy doodad at the top of the filler spout and pointed to an area that was orangish and said, "Look...rust". Hmmm. I suggested we pull the dipstick, which I'd think would show a sign. No sign. I suggested we look at the coolant resovior...which indicated the factory coolant level was right at halfway between ADD and FULL...precisely where it's been long as I can remember. Never been any added. Running temp is right where it's been for the entire time I've had it (new).

Now, I don't know beans about engines...but I'd think that the simplest way to know for sure would be to drain the oil...so naturally, I suggested this. Bottom line is they wouldn't 'service' it, which I kinda can almost understand. Kinda...but not so much to keep me from going somewhere else buy the oil so I could change it myself. :mad:

I saw nothing come out besides something close to 5-1/2 quarts of old oil. Hmmm again. So a couple questions for those wiser than I...how would one get water in the oil if not from the cooling system? Is the oil pressure/quantity great enough to actually force the oil all the way up the filler neck thingy such that it would get to the filler cap? That seems like a loooong way to me. Specifics: 2004 RAM quad cab, 4.7 non-HEMI. 49,000 miles, 46,000 of that with Mobil 1 full synthetic, changed every 7500 miles or so.

I suppose I could ask the dealer...but I trust you guys more. :p :D

[Matt Meiser]

Since the filler cap is near the top of the engine, I would assume that it would be reasonable for some moisture to condense there. If there is any significant amount of water in engine oil, it would be light colored and foamy on the dipstick and in the oil they drained. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it.

[John Hart]

I had this problem once. It ended up being the head gasket. It seems that the engineers designed the head so that the surface area for the gasket was extremely narrow at a couple of points near some mounting bolts. This allowed a small amount of water to escape. The mechanic's solution was to re-tighten the head. With all of this said....your amount of moisture seems less than mine was, so it may just be what Matt says...condensation.

[Joe Pelonio]

As the guys said it could be anything from condensation to a head gasket. With water in the oil it will usually show up as lighter brown to beige on the dipstick. If you are in a rainy climate and most of your trips in that vehicle are short, the condensation doesn't get a chance to burn off and then will accumulate at the cap. I would suggest further tests to be safe and avoid a more costly repair later. A mechanic can check for burned hydrocarbons in the coolant and do a compression test that could help
determine if the head gasket is shot or head cracked. Also wouldn't hurt to re-torque the heads. Are you still on warranty? If so let the dealer worry about it but take it in soon. If not, do some research on the internet, we blew a head gasket in a '94 Toyota 4Runner once that had a
"secret" recall, if it had under 100k miles and you asked they would fix it free.

[bill kiss]

How long (time not mileage) are you going between oil changes? A lot of short trip driving will cause what you are seeing. Try changing oil more often. (I am a retired certified ASE master auto technician)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

KC.......I'd think that if you had a leak between the cooling system and the lubricating system you would have seen the same discoloration in the oil you drained from the engine. There is a very slight possibility that you could have a "micro" leak not large enough to show up as contamination in the old, but very small probability.

As stated by others, the discoloration at the top of the filler cap could very well be caused by condensation. Was the rust in the filler tube also? Again could be caused by condensation.

If you're really worried about it, you might call the service department of the dealership who sold you the vehicle and get some telephone advice about it. You might even take it to the dealership and have them look at the problem. If it's still under warrantee and there is a leak, it would probably be covered.

Good luck!

[Hal Flynt]

I have a Ram Quad Cab 1500 (2003) w/hemi. We affecionately call that yellowish gunk, "snot". It's a by-product of oil vapors and condensation, and is common to Dodges, because of where the filler is located (high and in the colder air in winter). This stuff will go away, once all the moisture is eliminated from the crankcase and filler area, by operating at full temperature for a long enough period of time. (I'm glad my grammer teacher isn't a "creeker").

I was going to post a link to Bob is the Oil Guy forums, but I think it is against the rules.

[Jerry Clark]

Also you should have the PVC valve checked-- it is suppose to draw moisture and fumes from the crankcase. :rolleyes: Sounds like condensation problem to me.

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

How long (time not mileage) are you going between oil changes? A lot of short trip driving will cause what you are seeing. Try changing oil more often. (I am a retired certified ASE master auto technician)

Thanks for all the replies. I drive 110 miles a day to work and back, 95 of which is highway with no traffic. Without doing the math, I'd guess the oil gets changed every couple months, give or take. When I get to 6000 or so I start keeping an eye out for the 'no waiting' opportunity.

I've been told by a couple MOPAR guys that if it was a head problem (cracked/gasket), I'd be knowing about. ;)

[John A. Williams]

Hi Kirk, I am a dodge dealer technician an will put your mind at ease. When water gets in the oil from bad head gasket or crack it turn to chocolate shake lookin stuff. The 4.7 oil cap always has that rust looking color on the underside for some reason and the cap is plastic. I have done a few head replacements on the 4.7, but none were ever cracked, only slightly warped, but anything over .002" gets replaced. The head gaskets are very stout, but not very thick, they a laminated steel. So the head must be flat. All of the problems with warped heads I have seen have caused a hot running engine, never water in the oil.
John

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

Thanks for that info...

[Matt Crew]

K.C.
Check under the oil fill cap to see if the baffel is still there. The baffel is there to seperate the water from the crankcase gases so the pvc valve can get rid of it.
The moisture is normal, but if the baffel isn't there it will let the water get back into the oil.
Removing the baffel helps let the oil flow back in after changing it, and sometimes guys will forget to put it back in.
So don't worry about it, it's normal, but make sure the baffels there.