Hammer A3 noise...

[Steve Wurster]

My Hammer A3 31 just started making this clicking noise when running; see video at link HERE (https://www.dropbox.com/s/9g6xc23xdezvpnd/A3%20Noise.mov?dl=0). It happens in both jointer and planer mode, so it's not related to the planer rollers. The belt seems to have the right amount of tension, and if I turn the belt by hand then I can hear some clicking coming from either the motor or the pulley (not sure which). Otherwise the unit seems to work perfectly fine, and I'm still able to joint and plane pieces without problem.

Is my motor going bad? This thing is only about 3 years old, and I'm a hobbyist that doesn't put in all that much time in the shop. One would hope the motor isn't dying already. Any ideas?

I haven't yet called Felder support, but I am going to post this in the Felder Group USA Support thread here on the Creek.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Can't quite hear what the problem is. Is it that low-frequency noise that is most obvious around 0:12?

Have you tried disengaging the planer feed rollers (via the lever) to see if that changes it?

[John TenEyck]

Check the pulleys on both the planer head and motor to see if the set screws are tight and the pulleys in proper alignment. My cheap TS makes a sound like that if/when the set screw in the pulley on the arbor gets loose.

John

[Brian Holcombe]

Belts might be starting to break.

[Steve Wurster]

Can't quite hear what the problem is. Is it that low-frequency noise that is most obvious around 0:12?

Have you tried disengaging the planer feed rollers (via the lever) to see if that changes it?

Yes, it's that "rat-a-tat-tat" sound that's very prominent near the end as the cutter head is stopping. That's completely new; it never did that in nearly 3 years of ownership. And the planer rollers are not engaged here, however the exact same sound occurs regardless.

[Steve Wurster]

Check the pulleys on both the planer head and motor to see if the set screws are tight and the pulleys in proper alignment. My cheap TS makes a sound like that if/when the set screw in the pulley on the arbor gets loose.

John

I'll have to check that, however I'm not sure how this belt comes off! The tension mechanism on this thing seems strange, and a quick glance at the manual didn't seem to be much help. I'll have to look at that again. And I think even reaching the pulley on the planer head is difficult, unfortunately.

[Steve Wurster]

Belts might be starting to break.

Once I get the belt off I can take a look. Plus removing the belt will let me know if the problem is in the motor or the cutterhead, since I'll be able to run the motor on its own.

[Tim Derr]

Hey Steve,

Have the link for your video in and have a ticket into service to give you a call and see what they can do on this.

All the best

[Steve Wurster]

Hey Steve,

Have the link for your video in and have a ticket into service to give you a call and see what they can do on this.

All the best

Thanks. I think it's something at the cutterhead level. I got the belt off yesterday and the motor sounded just fine on its own (just a nice quiet hum). After putting the belt back on and running the whole unit again, I get that noise. I'm hoping it's not a bearing... but you never know!

[Brian Holcombe]

Is there a piece of wood caught somewhere?

[Steve Wurster]

Is there a piece of wood caught somewhere?

Not that I can see or hear. There's nothing stuck in the dust collector shroud that I'm aware of, especially since the noise happens regardless of the position of that shroud.

And I don't see anything stuck to the cutterhead (it's a spiral head; not much room on it for any pieces to hide anyway). Plus if I free spin the cutterhead (without the belt) then I don't get any obvious noises. There is a very faint clicking sound coming from the back part of the cutterhead when I do that, which makes me think (and fear) that it might be that bearing.

Felder support has gotten in touch with me, although I wasn't able to answer when they called. They sent me an email as well and I replied to that a little bit ago.

[john lawson]

That sounds like a 1 to 1 vibration or knock that is related to interference from the cutter head. On my Rojeck there is a piece of metal that projects from the left table (I think). It acts to bridge the gap between the two tables and is made of aluminum; that piece of metal is susceptible to being easily bent when the table is raised or lowered. Anyway, mine was bent. The other way I have seen this happen is when resetting the knife blades and allowing them to slide to far one way or the other. That knife blade winds up hitting part of the stationary part of the top.
Anyway, the first time it happened it really startled me and I finally figured out what it was. I know your machine has inserts so I would start looking for a piece of sheet metal or anything that could have been moved or bent that is now in the path of the cutter head.

[Steve Wurster]

That sounds like a 1 to 1 vibration or knock that is related to interference from the cutter head. On my Rojeck there is a piece of metal that projects from the left table (I think). It acts to bridge the gap between the two tables and is made of aluminum; that piece of metal is susceptible to being easily bent when the table is raised or lowered. Anyway, mine was bent. The other way I have seen this happen is when resetting the knife blades and allowing them to slide to far one way or the other. That knife blade winds up hitting part of the stationary part of the top.
Anyway, the first time it happened it really startled me and I finally figured out what it was. I know your machine has inserts so I would start looking for a piece of sheet metal or anything that could have been moved or bent that is now in the path of the cutter head.

I haven't noticed any interference with the cutter head. If I remove the belt and free-spin the cutterhead via its pulley there is no banging of any kind. At this point I'm thinking this is motor-related, because there is still *some* noise when I run the motor on its own (not connected to the belt). But that banging sound that is just so obvious when the motor spins down totally makes it seem like something is indeed banging around; I'm just not able to figure out where. I do wonder if this is vibration related, but, again, I can't tell where. I even tried using a stethoscope to help narrow down the source, but to no avail.

I've been in touch with Felder support and checked out a few things. I recorded a video of just the motor running and sent that to them yesterday. Hopefully we can figure out the problem soon.

[Erik Loza]

I wonder if the cooling fan has slipped off its arbor a little bit and it hitting the inside of the fan shroud? That was not-uncommon occurrence with bandsaws back in my Minimax days. Doesn't really hurt anything but makes an annoying racket.

Erik

[Tim Derr]

Curious to hear what is going on. Glad service got in touch with you.

[Steve Wurster]

I wonder if the cooling fan has slipped off its arbor a little bit and it hitting the inside of the fan shroud? That was not-uncommon occurrence with bandsaws back in my Minimax days. Doesn't really hurt anything but makes an annoying racket.

Erik

Is there anything I can do to verify that? Getting to the motor on these is not an ideal scenario, unfortunately.

[Erik Loza]

Is there anything I can do to verify that? Getting to the motor on these is not an ideal scenario, unfortunately. "If" it's the cooling fan, you can tell pretty quickly by listening with a mechanic's stethoscope (or even a long screwdriver) on the fan shroud while the motor is running. But I would wait for tech support to call you back before you start pulling anything apart.

Erik

[Steve Wurster]

"If" it's the cooling fan, you can tell pretty quickly by listening with a mechanic's stethoscope (or even a long screwdriver) on the fan shroud while the motor is running. But I would wait for tech support to call you back before you start pulling anything apart.

Erik

I do have a medical stethoscope on hand, but didn't get it too up close to the motor; I just held it under the cabinet to see if I could hear anything specific. I can try that later today - I still have the belt off the unit at the moment. Can you be specific however on which part of the motor you mean by the fan shroud? I'm guessing you just mean the end furthest away from the pulley; these are TEFC motors, right?

And I would think the rat-a-tat-tat noise present at the end of the video would also be there when I run the motor without the belt attached, but perhaps it's there and just quiet(er) due to lower vibration overall in that situation.

[Brian Holcombe]

It's unfortunate at times but running machines always seems to make one into part diagnostic and part mechanic in addition to woodworker. I've had most of my machines down to nuts and bolts and some motors out/etc.

I would turn the motor over by hand with the room very quiet and just listen for repeating noises. I would do the same with the cutter head, both with the feed engaged and without.

Could be a simple thing, as noted, or could be a bearing or other wear part.

[Steve Wurster]

There's a curious lack of "strange" noise coming from the motor itself, when run either standalone or with the belt attached.

The cutterhead makes minimal noises when spun freely (without the belt attached). There is a small amount of noise coming from the belt-side, either at the pulley or the bearing, but unfortunately I can't pinpoint anything. I even removed the pieces that cover the rollers just to eliminate any turbulence-related sources, but the behavior is still the same.

At this point I'm wondering if it's something related to the belt, because I can only get this noise when running with everything attached. Of course I can't generate by hand anywhere near the speed the motor generates, so if anything is speed-driven then that's hard for me to recreate without the belt. Either way, I ordered a new belt off Amazon and we'll see how that behaves when it gets here on Thursday.

[Steve Wurster]

Update: I put a new belt on yesterday and still got the same noise when running. However I noticed that the belt was "flopping" a bit so I increased the tension (which is a pain to do on this machine, especially with the tension screw having some wiggle in it). With a good bit more tension the "flopping" went away and the noise lessened somewhat. It still makes that obvious rat-a-tat-tat sound when stopping, but even that sounds a little better to my ear. (And stupid me didn't compare the new belt with the old to see if maybe the old belt had gotten stretched a little).

I did record a video of the cutterhead spinning freely (with no belt attached), and there is some clicking noise coming from the bearing. The Felder tech said it could be going bad, and that we could either replace the bearings now as a preemptive measure, or wait until things start to get louder and maybe we'll be able to better identify the source. I have an email back to them just wondering about the odds that the cutterhead will break if we don't take that preemptive measure. In the meantime however I still need to use the machine, and will continue to do so in the short term to keep my current project moving along. They also asked whether I would want to replace the bearings myself or have them do it. Um, yeah, I don't think I want to mess with that on this machine!

[Erik Loza]

I've had bearings that were a little sticky or scratchy run for years without any other deterioration in machine performance. A "per-revolution" sound wouldn't worry me if the machine otherwise behaves normally. It's "constant" sounds like groaning/screeching/whining or any sudden new heat buildup in an area that would make me dig deeper. Just my 2-cents.

Erik

[Steve Wurster]

Yes, the machine appears to behave normally otherwise. So for now I'm just letting it go and will keep an eye on it.