New J/P

[Darcy Warner]

Well, new to me.

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I will add more later.

[Brian Holcombe]

This is the coolest thing ever, seriously.

[Darcy Warner]

This is the coolest thing ever, seriously.

Its probably one of the rarest things I have ever picked up.
Whole lot of capacity.

[Will Boulware]

I've been drooling over that thing since I saw it on IG last night. It's so clean!

[Brian W Evans]

Congrats! Now you can stop buying lumber and just work with whole trees!

[mreza Salav]

What a beauty! what size is it?

[Mike Kees]

Darcy are you going to sell that one ? That is an amazing machine,What is the width ?

[David Kumm]

Darcy, when you get to analyzing the machine, give us your take on the table hinge mechanism and compare it to new combo JP machines. Your opinion is always valuable. Dave

[Jim Becker]

You always find the tiniest machines, Darcy! LOL Very interesting tool!

[Darcy Warner]

What a beauty! what size is it?

63cm width, or 25". Planer opens up to 22cm.
Runs at 6k rpm.

[Darcy Warner]

Darcy, when you get to analyzing the machine, give us your take on the table hinge mechanism and compare it to new combo JP machines. Your opinion is always valuable. Dave

The hinges on this weigh half as much as a whole newer J/P does.

Seriously, I can lift tables up with one hand.
Going down is a little more effort to get past the tipping point.

Planer runs from 7 to 35 meters a minute. 35m is moving.

[Darcy Warner]

Darcy are you going to sell that one ? That is an amazing machine,What is the width ?

I am currently having a massive affair with it. My wife has given up. Lol.

[Joe Calhoon]

Okoma is a rare find here Darcy. Funk and Okoma were started by former employees of Baurele. They invented the first angular window machine but were later put out of business by Weinig when the patent ran out. A nephew or son of one of the original owners rebuilds these and other machines in Oberkochen. On my bucket list is the small SF3 angle machine.

I don’t know if they had their own foundry or possibly used Baurele’s. They are solid and well designed machines. I have pictures of other Okoma machines from German shops if anyone is interested. Mac Campshure has had a couple of these.

[Ben Rivel]

Wow! 25"!!!??? Crazy! Thats literally TWICE the width of my A3-31! Amazing!

[Malcolm McLeod]

35m/min?? For the metrically impaired, this works out to ~23 inches/second. Also known as 'Launch Mode".:eek: :cool:

I'm guessing a lot of the weight comes from the nuclear reactor in the base - and it's shielding.

[Darcy Warner]

Okoma is a rare find here Darcy. Funk and Okoma were started by former employees of Baurele. They invented the first angular window machine but were later put out of business by Weinig when the patent ran out. A nephew or son of one of the original owners rebuilds these and other machines in Oberkochen. On my bucket list is the small SF3 angle machine.

I don’t know if they had their own foundry or possibly used Baurele’s. They are solid and well designed machines. I have pictures of other Okoma machines from German shops if anyone is interested. Mac Campshure has had a couple of these.

I had wondered about Okoma name on it. Everything on the machine is exactly the same as the other Bauerle planers I have had. From what I am told it was imported here in the early 80s and from the timeline I can put together of bauerle, that is about the time they were having capital issues. Absolutely wonderful machine, built like a tank, but super simple to adjust and use.

[David Kumm]

You have to do a video. I know it takes a lot to impress you so it will be a great opportunity for us to see. First machine to tempt me in a few years. Dave

[Darcy Warner]

35m/min?? For the metrically impaired, this works out to ~23 inches/second. Also known as 'Launch Mode".:eek: :cool:

I'm guessing a lot of the weight comes from the nuclear reactor in the base - and it's shielding.

Yes, that is fast, I just tried it. I believe it weighs right around 3k pounds. Very thick heavy castings. only a 6.6hp cutterhead motor, separate feed motor.

[lowell holmes]

What, no photos, it did not happen :)

[Brian Holcombe]

That's wild, I feel like my JP is going real fast at 12, i can barely imagine 35. For someone who likes working real fast, hah.

[mreza Salav]

Yeah, it's crazy fast. In fact that speed doesn't make sense to me. I am guessing a 4-knife head running at 6000rpm head, comes to 24000 knife hit per min. If it is 35m/min, comes to 684 knife hits per meter; each meter being 1000mm it means you have only 684 hits over a span of 1000mm, knife hits will be more than a 1mm apart.

[Darcy Warner]

Yeah, it's crazy fast. In fact that speed doesn't make sense to me. I am guessing a 4-knife head running at 6000rpm head, comes to 24000 knife hit per min. If it is 35m/min, comes to 684 knife hits per meter; each meter being 1000mm it means you have only 684 hits over a span of 1000mm, knife hits will be more than a 1mm apart.

2 knife head, just like the majority of these wide machines that were built, kolle, robinson, wadkin, Hoffman.

It is a very rippled surface at top speed, but slow it down to half and it is beautiful. It's great for taking a material off fast and then back though for your finish pass at a lower speed.

[Mark Hennebury]

Beautiful machine Darcy.

I had an old German jointer planer when i was younger It was older style than your machine and no where near as nice looking, but built like a tank.
It was made by W. Klein & Soehne, It was an older style before the spring loaded lift tables; To move the jointer tables, you loosened the camlock lever, pulled the table back over a gate, pivoted the table up to vertical, released the gate lock and swung the table out of the way on the gate. Then repeated on the other side, it was quite a workout, especially the table with the fence. I also owned a separate 24" W. Klein jointer

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[Darcy Warner]

I saw a couple pictures of a bauerle that had lambo style tables like yours. Yes, I am going to claim lambo style tables. Lol

[Erik Loza]

Planer runs from 7 to 35 meters a minute...

That is insane. In for videos of 35m/minute.

Erik

[Joe Calhoon]

Here are some pictures of other Okoma machines I had seen in German Shops. The shaper outboard fence is the same as what they use on the angle machines. Nice machines!

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[Mark Hennebury]

that's pretty stout looking gear there Joe. Nice looking stuff!

[David Kumm]

The jointer castings look to be exactly the same s some Bauerle machines. Joe always finds neat stuff. Wish he would bring it back here. Dave

[Darcy Warner]

The jointer castings look to be exactly the same s some Bauerle machines. Joe always finds neat stuff. Wish he would bring it back here. Dave

Honestly, all German jointers of that era look almost exactly the same.

[Joe Calhoon]

It’s possible Okoma outsourced castings or possibly rebadged some of the standard machines from Baurele. I will ask Mr. Engelfried. Okoma built a lot of tenoners, profilers and angle machines and maybe needed standard machines to fill in their line. The town of Oberkochen and surrounding area is ripe with machine and cutter building and any machine part could easily be outsourced.

35 M per minute is fast! My S4S will go up to 25 M. Yesterday I turned it up to full speed just to see what it was like for the first time. The finish was not that bad on mahogany. Sure would not want to run difficult grain that fast though.

[Darcy Warner]

Not a very elegant video, but I made one.

https://youtu.be/hKTlkt62Xo4

[Brian Holcombe]

Sweet! That is one awesome planer. How much space does it consume?

[Darcy Warner]

Sweet! That is one awesome planer. How much space does it consume?

That's a good question, I will have to measure it.

A guess, including fence tube sticking out the back is like 4 feet deep and just under 7 feet long?

[Darcy Warner]

66" deep, 83" long.

[Brian Holcombe]

Not bad, that machine is a beast.

[Joe Calhoon]

Florian Englefried got back to me about the question of Okoma and Baurele. This is what he said.


Dear Mr. Calhoon,

the standard machinery program was produced by Bäuerle.
A part of the standard program was also produced a certain time by Okoma itself.
Okoma had no foundry, they worked together with Funk in Aalen.



Mit freundlichen Grüssen / with best regards

Florian Engelfried

Engelfried Maschinentechnik
Elisabethenstr. 41 (https://sawmillcreek.org/x-apple-data-detectors://1)
73432 Aalen (https://sawmillcreek.org/x-apple-data-detectors://1)

[Darcy Warner]

Florian Englefried got back to me about the question of Okoma and Baurele. This is what he said.


Dear Mr. Calhoon,

the standard machinery program was produced by Bäuerle.
A part of the standard program was also produced a certain time by Okoma itself.
Okoma had no foundry, they worked together with Funk in Aalen.



Mit freundlichen Grüssen / with best regards

Florian Engelfried

Engelfried Maschinentechnik
Elisabethenstr. 41 (https://sawmillcreek.org/x-apple-data-detectors://1)
73432 Aalen (https://sawmillcreek.org/x-apple-data-detectors://1)

So its basically both. Lol

[Joe Calhoon]

Sounds like a lot of rebadging going on!
Here is a saw Englefried had in his works for cutting aluminum.

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[Malcolm McLeod]

Alright, I need one too. I just have to figure out how to deal with the neighbor's noise complaints. I'm guessing they'll still be calling the 9-1-1-my-ears-hurt hotline 30-40 minutes after I shut-down and go to bed. The Beast will still be spooling down. :D:cool:

[Darcy Warner]

Alright, I need one too. I just have to figure out how to deal with the neighbor's noise complaints. I'm guessing they'll still be calling the 9-1-1-my-ears-hurt hotline 30-40 minutes after I shut-down and go to bed. The Beast will still be spooling down. :D:cool:

Everytime I start it and it hits speed, I get chills and my neck hair stands up. Just an amazing sound.

[Patrick Kane]

Fantastic machine. I may have missed it, but where did you pick it up? Unless you did a ton of clean up, it looks to be in fantastic shape, so i assume it came out of a small shop. The DC design on this is one of the slickest ive seen on a combo. I always found felder's solution to be disappointing. You need 15' of flex hose, and it lacks any indication of creative thought.

How do these old combos perform? Wadkin/Robinson's looks to be a good design, but ive seen some oddballs over the years. Italian makes from the 60-80s that I cant even recall the names of now. Ive seen several 20-24" combo machines and they are usually pretty inexpensive--$1500+/-. I personally wouldnt want a combo machine, but they are interesting. Would be worth it for the jointer alone, most of the time.

[Darcy Warner]

Fantastic machine. I may have missed it, but where did you pick it up? Unless you did a ton of clean up, it looks to be in fantastic shape, so i assume it came out of a small shop. The DC design on this is one of the slickest ive seen on a combo. I always found felder's solution to be disappointing. You need 15' of flex hose, and it lacks any indication of creative thought.

How do these old combos perform? Wadkin/Robinson's looks to be a good design, but ive seen some oddballs over the years. Italian makes from the 60-80s that I cant even recall the names of now. Ive seen several 20-24" combo machines and they are usually pretty inexpensive--$1500+/-. I personally wouldnt want a combo machine, but they are interesting. Would be worth it for the jointer alone, most of the time.

It was imported here new, in the early to mid 80s. I got it from the guy who bought it from the original owners widow. This guy never used it. Best I can figure it sat idle for about 10 years.

I have had a couple Wadkins, they never considered any sort of DC, I felt my arms were going to get ripped off feeding the planer, plus they were fairly deep machines.

I can't compare it to a mini max, felder or hammer, never had and desire to own one of their machines.

Only fair comparison would be to a Kolle, Hoffman or the like.

I looked at it as a 25" jointer, its actually a really good planer too that isn't very cumbersome to switch to or use.

I am not even going to reply to the 1500.00 for something like this, that's basically a fairytale.

It is a very well thought out and put together machine, but so is every Bauerle I own.

[Brian Holcombe]

There was a new-ish Hofmann up for sale last year, listed price was about 14k iirc. I’ve never used one but the German JP designs seem to compromise very little, in fact the Hofmann can be used to plane while having the jointer tables down.

[Patrick Kane]

I wasnt inferring your machine was worth $1500, just saying those other odd italian combo machines were dirt cheap. Part of the reason i was curious about them and how they perform.

Never handled a Bauerle machine before, but they all embody the word "heavy" just by looking at them. Not too long ago there was a 20" jointer in florida that these guys almost couldnt give away. I think they had it last listed for $1500ish, which really had me regretting the 20" generic italian jointer i purchased at the time for $3k.

Story is exactly how i imagined it. It looks pristine.

[Darcy Warner]

I wasnt inferring your machine was worth $1500, just saying those other odd italian combo machines were dirt cheap. Part of the reason i was curious about them and how they perform.

Never handled a Bauerle machine before, but they all embody the word "heavy" just by looking at them. Not too long ago there was a 20" jointer in florida that these guys almost couldnt give away. I think they had it last listed for $1500ish, which really had me regretting the 20" generic italian jointer i purchased at the time for $3k.

Story is exactly how i imagined it. It looks pristine.

I know that jointer and its owner. I was tempted, but it did need quite a bit of work to get it to where I would want it to be.

I am trying to recall who made those machines, I have seen a SCM and probably another from that era as well.

[Darcy Warner]

There was a new-ish Hofmann up for sale last year, listed price was about 14k iirc. I’ve never used one but the German JP designs seem to compromise very little, in fact the Hofmann can be used to plane while having the jointer tables down.

That's interesting on the tables down, must have perfected the DC. For the quality that these things are, that's a reasonable cost, maybe a touch more than what I think someone would pay.

[Patrick Kane]

There was a new-ish Hofmann up for sale last year, listed price was about 14k iirc. I’ve never used one but the German JP designs seem to compromise very little, in fact the Hofmann can be used to plane while having the jointer tables down.

I swear one of the Wadkin or Robinson designs is like that too. In these large combos, that seems to be the easiest/simplest design. All combos fill me with concern over the hinge point and how precisely and overengineered the machine needs to be built for it to return to the same setting over time. Over 16-25" it cant take much to throw your tables off by several thousandths. Obviously, some manufacturers solved the issue, but it still makes me wonder. Not sure how i would feel about the ergonomics of bending down that far for stock, but it would alleviate my concerns with the jointer tables' calibration and tolerances to hold settings.

[Darcy Warner]

I swear one of the Wadkin or Robinson designs is like that too. In these large combos, that seems to be the easiest/simplest design. All combos fill me with concern over the hinge point and how precisely and overengineered the machine needs to be built for it to return to the same setting over time. Over 16-25" it cant take much to throw your tables off by several thousandths. Obviously, some manufacturers solved the issue, but it still makes me wonder. Not sure how i would feel about the ergonomics of bending down that far for stock, but it would alleviate my concerns with the jointer tables' calibration and tolerances to hold settings.

Wadkin and early Robinsons had fixed tables, they were a pain to use as a planer.

I have lifted these tables 50 times or so, I have checked them several times with my 60" Camelback straight edge, they seem to be perfect every time. Tables do have simple adjustments, counter spring is huge, pivot point is huge, and those tables without those springs would be unmovable for most.

Bauerle made one where the tables lifted, pivoted and rotated out of the way, kinda looked like lambo doors.

[Brian Holcombe]

I swear one of the Wadkin or Robinson designs is like that too. In these large combos, that seems to be the easiest/simplest design. All combos fill me with concern over the hinge point and how precisely and overengineered the machine needs to be built for it to return to the same setting over time. Over 16-25" it cant take much to throw your tables off by several thousandths. Obviously, some manufacturers solved the issue, but it still makes me wonder. Not sure how i would feel about the ergonomics of bending down that far for stock, but it would alleviate my concerns with the jointer tables' calibration and tolerances to hold settings.

The Hofmann was actually made so that it could be used with tables down or up. So they still lift out of the way for smaller stock. This is a handy feature, I feel.

In typical Hofmann fashion, the machine is built heavy the landing tabs are two per side and they're machined into the cast iron tables.

https://hofmann-maschinen.de/en/produkte/hobeln/abrichtdickenhobelmaschine/

I'm sure Darcy's machine is also folding down in a way that repeats consistently. The German manufacturers seem to really make beefy anything that effects settings.

[Darcy Warner]

Wonder how much the 63cm one is new.

[Brian Holcombe]

Probably 35k.

[Joe Calhoon]

There are - were 3 makers of this type J/P that can be run without folding the tables up. They all have a notch out of the Outfeed jointer table to make it easier. The fence does not ride on ball bearings like the Hofmann and Martin stand alone jointers. Hofmann’s is nice with well engineered DC and quiet running. I’m sure the price is north of 25k for new in the US.
New and vintage Hofmann-

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Here is a Vertongen of the same design. They are still in business but don’t make standard machines anymore.

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Here is Panhans version. It does not have a cast machine body like Hofmann.

https://www.panhans.de/products/planers/54610-2/?lang=en

[Darcy Warner]

So are those like 16" jointers and 25" planers with that odd table shapes?

[Joe Calhoon]

I believe jointer and planer the same width Darcy. The compromise is the jointer tables shorter on one side.

[Brian Holcombe]

Full width as far as I can tell, the opening is full width shown here


This image is from Hofmann’s website

https://hofmann-maschinen.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/ad_aufgeklappt_web.jpg

[Darcy Warner]

I believe jointer and planer the same width Darcy. The compromise is the jointer tables shorter on one side.

That's just odd to me. I see why in the picture Brian posted though, for the dang electronic everything. I guess I am just use to the wide full length tables on my big jointers and even this Bauerle. Especially with wide heavy material

[Darcy Warner]

Full width as far as I can tell, the opening is full width shown here


This image is from Hofmann’s website

https://hofmann-maschinen.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/ad_aufgeklappt_web.jpg

Lot of similarities between the Hoffman and this 35 or so year old Bauerle.

I bet a fully optioned Hoffman is easily 30 to 35k.

[Brian Holcombe]

Totally, that Bauerle is a sweet looking setup. Appears to be entirely cast iron which is nice.

[Joe Calhoon]

New Hofmann J/P is probably over 30k. If I remember they are low to mid 20k euro in Germany. That would translate to 30k+ by the time it gets here. Shipping, customs, UL, US electrical etc.