wifi to remote shop/barn

[John Christian]

has anyone here used a 'powerline network adapter' to get wifi in a shop? My barn has a subpanel from the main house and is about 100 ft away.

[Ben Rivel]

Those adapters can be kinda slow and buggy. At least that was my experience. Is there no conduit running to the barn that you run an ethernet cable into? Or you can get hardware to do an Wifi bridge over to the barn from the house. Though that will require a bit more knowhow and wont be as cheap as those adapters.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Google "cantenna." This seems to be the most popular way to steal wifi. Here at my kitchen counter, my computer shows three different sources of wifi. My closest neighbor is about 500 feet away, and next is over 800 feet away. Locate the router in the house up as high as possible, preferably next to a second story window facing towards the shop. A second router can be used as a "booster." An old tv dish, mounted upside down with a doongle where the LNB was mounted makes a great wifi receiver.

[Steve Milito]

It's only 100'? Do you have clear line of sight?
My garage is about 100' from my house you can pick up a signal from the house AP without me even doing anything special.
For a robust solution:
You can pull direct burial Cat 5e burying it a few inches below the ground and wire an AP in the garage. You can even use a POE injector to make it easy. Alternatively, mount and outdoor rated wifi AP with a directional antenna on your house and point it toward the garage. My garage is about 100' from my house you can pick up a signal from the house AP without doing anything special. I'm a fan of Ubiguiti products, they are affordable. Something like : https://www.ui.com/unifi/unifi-mesh-antenna/

[Art Mann]

I tried wifi over the power lines going to a shop that is a hundred feet away from my router. It worked great . . . until I fired up the table saw. The little device locked up and had to be powered down and back up to restore connectivity. I don't know if my experience would be typical but the electronic noise generated in my particular situation made the technology unusable.

[Jerome Stanek]

my shop is only 75 feet away but it is a metal building. I ended up burying a couple cat 5 cables to have internet and phone in the shop. I just added a wireless router to have wifi for my cell and laptop. I also has a NAS in my basement that I can access from any computer in the lan

[Mike Henderson]

Ethernet over cable will run 100 meters, or a bit over 300 feet, so 100 feet should give you no problems. I'd definitely pull an Ethernet cable. You can run gigabit Ethernet easily.

If you can't bury it, string it on some poles. Just get the outdoor Ethernet cable.

I ran above ground Ethernet to an outbuilding at my place - works great.

Mike

[Steve Simms]

I have two D-link powerline adaptors, one in the garage and the other in my shop which is two hundred feet away from the house and they work really well. The only issue I’ve had in two years is with the one in the garage with an older tread mill. The vfd in the tread mill bothered it.

[Tom M King]

Note to anyone building a separate building from the house for anything: When you trench to install whatever, while the trench is open, lay in a length of black polyethylene pipe. It comes in continuous rolls in long lengths, and doesn't have anything inside to snag on. Pull a length of nylon mason's line by tying a little rag on one end, and suck it through with a vacuum cleaner.

Sometime in the future, there will be some wire you want to pull that hasn't been invented yet.

I built new houses for 33 years. I still get second, and third owners coming to thank me for putting those "conduits" from the street to the house.

The one to our barn, that was built in 1980, has had that conduit used for multiple things that we never thought of to start with.

Any time you pull a wire with the mason's line, pull another line along with it for next time.

[Steve Milito]

I ran conduit when I put the garage in. The front walls are 100' apart but the cable run from switch to switch is 225'. It's still within spec but something to be aware about. The 100 meters is from switch to switch.
Direct burial cable is cheap enough. It's a pain to work with because of the gel but it keeps everything dry. You don't need to bury it very deep, just enough to not break it with running things over it. Like Mike said you don't really need to bury it as long as you can keep it from breaking. It really depends on how many devices you want to connect. My garage has a small apt above it. It needs a video solution and has a bunch of cameras. Therefore, I ran cable and have just been too lazy to wire the punch panel but I'll easily have 10 devices connected with more than half of them being video.
Yet, I'd go the directional WIFI route if if all I wanted to do is make sure I had internet access for a laptop and a phone in the garage. You certainly would want to mask the SSID and have a strong encryption key unless you're way in the boonies.
FWIW: my internet provider is wireless. The use a version of a Ubiquiti WIFI device that is more commercial than the one in the link I provided. I'm 1 mile away with direct line of sight and get 20MB/Sec via a 5GHZ channel. Works rain and shine. Sometimes when it storms I lose Sat TV but still have my wireless internet.

[Mike Henderson]

Steve's right, of course, that the distance you need to worry about is switch-to-switch. What I did was measure the distance I needed and added some extra. Then I ordered the cable and let them put the plugs on. I wound up with excess but just looped it (big loop) on one end to take up the extra. As long as you stay below 100 meters (328 feet) you should be fine, even with gigabit Ethernet.

Mike

[roger wiegand]

+1 on the Ubiquiti products.

Although I have a hard wire out to the barn I now get strong signal there from the AP in the front part of the house, ~150 ft since installing the new APs. That said, I'd still pull the wire if it's reasonably doable.

[Robert Engel]

I tried a repeater and did not have good luck with that. Maybe it was the metal roof.

I had an ethernet cable run to a wireless modem and that has worked fine.

Be aware running copper based ethernet cable outside is generally considered a "no no". You definitely do not want to run it through the air. It should be run underground. We elected to run standard Cat6 in conduit. The tech told me fiber optic cable is a better option going between buildings.

I recommend data/power surge supressors on each end of the line.

[Jim Becker]

I have hard Ethernet to my shop. I bought a pre-terminated, direct burial rated Ethernet cable of appropriate length off Amazon and routed it between the house and the shop. I did pull it through black poly "water pipe" for easier installation, but the cable is rated to be able to go directly in the soil. Building materials in both the house and the shop precluded using only wireless for reliable service into the shop. Like some others, I do have an access point in the shop to support wireless devices, but the computer out there for my CNC uses Ethernet to insure best performance when I'm transferring files or updating software.

[Ben Rivel]

+1 on the Ubiquiti products.

Although I have a hard wire out to the barn I now get strong signal there from the AP in the front part of the house, ~150 ft since installing the new APs. That said, I'd still pull the wire if it's reasonably doable.
Yep! Got a whole home network done using Ubiquiti equipment. Good stuff!

[David Helm]

I am using Google WiFi Points (4 of them). One at the gateway, one downstairs, one at my wife's office (75 feet away) and one at my shop office (~ 100feet away). Once I got them set up they have worked great for the past year and a half.

[Tom Dixon]

I used this TP-Link (https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-CPE210-300Mbps-dual-polarized-directional/dp/B00P4JKQGK/ref=sr_1_4?crid=387AHM2OWWUT9&keywords=outdoor+access+point+tplink&qid=1564055577&s=gateway&sprefix=outdoor+access+point%2Caps%2C226&sr=8-4) to create an exterior Access Point for my shop that is roughly 150 feet from where I mounted it on my deck. Cat 6 from my router to the power supply which adds POE to a second Cat 6 cable running to the TP-Link. For longer distance you can use two of them point-to-point and go back to a switch at the destination. Very powerful. I'm not getting any discernible signal loss at all in the shop. This is the mounting bracket (https://www.amazon.com/Wilson-901117-Pole-Mount-Antenna/dp/B003D1QPHK/ref=pd_bap_rp_9/145-4098851-0429260?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B003D1QPHK&pd_rd_r=33a7c368-dade-42b0-820d-e941c40f3777&pd_rd_w=Ulije&pd_rd_wg=FtXw5&pf_rd_p=3dad8606-079a-4e44-a2b6-9e295e1b470c&pf_rd_r=QADNK12BBDVN86FZS476&psc=1&refRID=QADNK12BBDVN86FZS476) I used.

[Robert Engel]

Well after making the comments about not using copper cable outside, lightning struck yesterday & got the wifi router in my shop and fed back to house and zapped modem. BTW, this is the 4th time this has happened in the last year. 3x last summer. The second the third times were withing 2 days of each other and we didn't even hear a lightning strike.

It also got my gate opener ($900 to fix that last summer).

It appears to be getting in through the gate opener (yup, it zapped the board again) and feeding back through power into shop. The gate is also surge protected.

After the episodes last summer, we replaced the entire cable run, and put surge suppressors on both ends of the run, protecting both the cable and power.

Seems like once this happens the network cable becomes compromised and extremely subject to static. So now I'm without internet in the shop, which presents problems for me as I have no phone signal and can't communicate without walking back into the house.

I'm going to go fiberoptic and if I fix the gate opener I'll go to a solar set up.

Is this just bad luck? I've talked to my electrician he has no idea why so many lightning strikes. He suggested a surge suppressor breaker in the panel.

I'm in the Jacksonville, Fl area if anyone knows who can install the fiberoptic please let me know.

[Jim Becker]

Robert, you can get pre-terminated fiber which makes things a whole lot easier. That and some transceivers to convert back to copper at either end will do the job. Install is the same as copper...conduit recommended and burial rated cable essential. It's not inexpensive to install fiber, but it certainly does put a break in place for the problem you illustrate. You may need lightning arrestors on that property, however!!! That's a LOT of strikes for one location no matter what.

[Robert Engel]

I found out my BIL can do fiber optic. He’s looking into what we need.

That said, my computer guy that takes care of the network at work told me fiber optic is not immune to a surge. Have to double check that.

It could be damaged but I don’t see how FO would conduct a surge.

I’m also going to switch my gate opener to solar thereby isolating it from the power.

I’ve had internet in my shop for years until we pit the gate opener in about 3 years ago then all this started happening.

I checked with my electrician about lightning rods - cost prohibitive for me.

[Derek Meyer]

Check with a company called Shaxon. They can do custom fiber cables in any length, cable type and ends. When I worked at a computer shop we ordered a 1600 foot cable with LC ends that got pulled through conduit to connect two outbuildings on a large farm.

Derek

[Jim Becker]

That said, my computer guy that takes care of the network at work told me fiber optic is not immune to a surge. Have to double check that..

Um...the fiber is non-conductive. If the cable is armored, that armor potentially could be conductive if metal, but not the glass fiber...

[Wayne Cannon]

Every Wireless Access Point (WAP) I've used -- quite a few -- have a mode called "ad hoc" which allow them to serve as point-to-point links, e.g., between a WAP in the house and one in the shop. The normal mode is "infrastructure". I've never configured and used "ad hoc" mode, but that's what it's for.

See https://commotionwireless.net/docs/cck/networking/types-of-wireless-networks/

[Steve Milito]

Every Wireless Access Point (WAP) I've used -- quite a few -- have a mode called "ad hoc" which allow them to serve as point-to-point links, e.g., between a WAP in the house and one in the shop. The normal mode is "infrastructure". I've never configured and used "ad hoc" mode, but that's what it's for.

See https://commotionwireless.net/docs/cck/networking/types-of-wireless-networks/

My understanding is that an ad hoc network is a peer to peer network and a infrastructure network is on that the data flows through a router or switch. A point to point link like you describe is "bridge mode". Some APs or wireless devices support that mode and some don't.
I have a 2.4 GHz bridge between my shop and my house which are about 900' apart as the crow flies. Basically they are paired and only communicate to one another. The topology is that the master is connected to the switch in my house and the slave is connected to a switch in my shop. Each location has devices on their respective switches, including APs, and they are all on the same subnet. When a device in the house wants to connect to a device in the shop it goes through the wireless bridge which is functioning like a wire.

[Monte Milanuk]

Figured I'd share this... something I came across when trying to get better wifi in RV parks.

https://outsideourbubble.com/secure-private-rv-wi-fi-and-making-a-better-park-connection-for-under-100/

Updated version (one of the components changed / was discontinued):

https://outsideourbubble.com/build-a-private-rv-wi-fi-system-for-under-100/

Similar setup, with a non-Ubiquiti AP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA-SiZ2p3hI

Initial setup may be a little bit techy for some, but once it's done, it's done. The secondary setup - for people in an RV where the wifi AP you're connecting to will almost certainly change when you pack up and move... really is a non-issue for a stationary setup in a shop.

We moved at the end of March, and the new (to me) 24x32 shop is just far enough from the Ubiquiti NanoHD AP (definitely *not* a low-end or low-powered unit!) in the house that the wifi signal out here is kinda anemic. Since we're doing more boon-docking style RV'ing these days, I figured I'd re-purpose the Ubiquiti Nano M2 and airGateway LR for the shop instead. Had to dust off the videos in the links above to remember how to get around in the dashboards for the respective devices, but so far it's working great. I'm typing this from my Asus CB15 in the comfort of my air-conditioned shop (the house central air is currently DOA :( ).

[Steve Milito]

We moved at the end of March, and the new (to me) 24x32 shop is just far enough from the Ubiquiti NanoHD AP (definitely *not* a low-end or low-powered unit!) in the house that the wifi signal out here is kinda anemic. Since we're doing more boon-docking style RV'ing these days, I figured I'd re-purpose the Ubiquiti Nano M2 and airGateway LR for the shop instead. Had to dust off the videos in the links above to remember how to get around in the dashboards for the respective devices, but so far it's working great. I'm typing this from my Asus CB15 in the comfort of my air-conditioned shop (the house central air is currently DOA :( ).

Just a geeky fine point:
Unlicensed radio bands like WiFi 2.4 and 5 Ghz have transmission power limits. It's a highly technical discussion and it's something that consumers really don't need to know much about. Essentially the vast majority of WiFi routers and Access Points can transmit at full power, and generally do so "out of the box". You can go into the setup menu and lower the power but most assume that the average Joe is best served by having the unit at full power. The method used to get more power at distance is to pair the transmitter with a different antenna. Since antenna are passive devices the way they get gain is to have different transmission characteristics, in a word they are directional. The more directional, the more the gain, the further out you will have good signal. You can't go out and buy a "more powerful" wifi but rather buy one that comes with the antenna and features you need, or allows you to attach an after market antenna that does the same.

[John K Jordan]

has anyone here used a 'powerline network adapter' to get wifi in a shop? My barn has a subpanel from the main house and is about 100 ft away.

My shop is 250' from my house. I ran an ethernet cable underground in conduit from the wifi router and installed a second wifi router in the shop. Both are set to the same SSID and the second is configured as an extension (can't remember the real term). Bulletproof and works seamlessly.

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

Point of technical order...the second "router" shouldn't be used as a "router" (layer 3 routing) in a scenario like this without a good reason. it should be setup as a wireless access point (and/or Ethernet switch) that bridges the same network that the primary router provides. A "router behind a router" can get pretty messy sometimes because it essentially creates another network behind itself. (double NAT...network address translation) The savvy buyer gets a wireless access point without the routing capability for this purpose (or a mesh wireless system) or if they want to economize and use and extra wireless router they have hanging around, they configure it for bridge mode and turn off all the routing things.

[Steve Milito]

Point of technical order...the second "router" shouldn't be used as a "router" (layer 3 routing) in a scenario like this without a good reason. it should be setup as a wireless access point (and/or Ethernet switch) that bridges the same network that the primary router provides. A "router behind a router" can get pretty messy sometimes because it essentially creates another network behind itself. (double NAT...network address translation) The savvy buyer gets a wireless access point without the routing capability for this purpose (or a mesh wireless system) or if they want to economize and use and extra wireless router they have hanging around, they configure it for bridge mode and turn off all the routing things.

Yes. I reused old routers as access points(AP)in the past. IMO, it's not worth the money saved. Modern APs of the same brand communicate with one another, often optimize the bands they use, and usually can be monitored and configured from an app anywhere inside the network. Additionally, I think they work better. I really like ceiling mounted units, you can really get good coverage if they are well placed.

[Robert Engel]

Um...the fiber is non-conductive. If the cable is armored, that armor potentially could be conductive if metal, but not the glass fiber...

Yes, that is my thinking and that is what my BIL said. But it is possible it could damage as far as data flow, he's not sure.

This is just an add on wireless router I've had numerous ones installed at my office by computer guys. Is there something wrong with that?

I talked it over with him and since the gate opener will be converted to solar, then he thinks I shouldn't have a problem anymore.

That said, we are going to run power to the shop wifi from the house, which will take it completely off the power supply from the shop. Much more economical solution. (I guess I should mention the shop has its own service and the gate opener was fed by it.)

Another thing I should mention is the surge protectors. I thought Tripplite was a good brand so I put one on each end of the run, protecting the cable, too.

But the surge went through both of them :o

[Jim Becker]

Steve, the best thing I ever did was move to a mesh system for our "hard to wireless" property. It replaced multiple traditional access points and I haven't looked back. Coverage is consistent across all the living space and my shop now. So you have an idea about the "hard to wireless", every one of the nodes has to be hard wire Ethernet back to the main switch and I had to use three nodes to cover the 4200 sq ft of our home plus one for the shop. Limestone and other building materials can really wreak havoc with wireless transmission! I happen to be using Velops for my mesh, but there are a number of great choices.

Robert, while the fiber itself isn't normally susceptible to "electrical damage" from a lightning strike. the stuff connected on either end to the copper infrastructure certainly could be...on that end.

[John K Jordan]

...the second "router" ...should be setup as a wireless access point

Yes, that's the term I forgot, thanks. Part of me is happy I don't keep my remaining memory cells full of information like that. :)

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

Part of me is happy I don't keep my remaining memory cells full of information like that.


What was it we were talking about? :D :D :D

[Monte Milanuk]

You can't go out and buy a "more powerful" wifi but rather buy one that comes with the antenna and features you need, or allows you to attach an after market antenna that does the same.

Which... in the links I provided, is *exactly* what they did. A Ubiquiti NanoStation M2 pointed back at the original router/AP, connected to the airGateway (local AP) in the RV (or the shop).

[Steve Milito]

Which... in the links I provided, is *exactly* what they did. A Ubiquiti NanoStation M2 pointed back at the original router/AP, connected to the airGateway (local AP) in the RV (or the shop).

Yes, Indeed. I only mentioned it for those of us that lack the attention span that god gave a mosquito and can't sit through an instructional video. :)
The bottom line to this whole thread is that 100 ft is child's play for connectivity in this age. Wireless, copper, and fiber can easily be made to work without anything exotic.
Me, I'm lazy and cheap, so I'd look for the whatever could be done in less than a days work, didn't require a shovel, and cost under $150.

[Monte Milanuk]

Gotcha

FWIW, I was working on a project today up at the local gun club - the router/AP is inside a shed, being mainly there for remote access to the gate controller. But, with everything being more and more 'online', including some match/league scoring programs, we needed the wifi to reach a little further.

Previously, the router (a decently high-powered home/consumer model) wifi petered out about half-ways across the parking lot from the building it was in (maybe 50yds?). To be fair, it was a metal sided affair, so the deck was stacked against it the original radio.

Put in a Ubiquiti outdoor AP (UAP-AC-M), ran 50 ft. of cat 5 around the interior room, punched it thru to the external wall, ran the remaining cable along under the eaves to where I mounted the new radio. Now we have excellent signal across the parking lot to the main club house and other buildings, enough to stream YT @ 1080p easily. Laterally along the face of the metal building isn't so great, but still way better than it was previously. Only thing left to do is to go into the original router's admin dashboard and turn off those radios and then use the UniFi mobile app to make sure that the new AP isn't stepping on / interfering with any other channels nearby.

More than one way to skin this cat, but Ubiquiti UniFi is a good option IMO.

[Erik Loza]

Steve, the best thing I ever did was move to a mesh system for our "hard to wireless" property....

+1 for mesh system. My wife (guru of all things technical in our household) set it up. Used to have all sorts of wifi issues in the garage but now get great signal out there, backyard, etc.

Erik

[Alan Lightstone]

I have the Linksys Velop that Jim uses. PC Mag rates it as an Editor's choice. But.... It mostly works great, but was very finicky for a while to set up. It is able to be hard wired from a network switch and does seem to work that way (which is necessary since my workshop is separated from the remainder of my house by a thick solid concrete slab ceiling with a tin ceiling covering (nice Faraday cage you say...), but the lights on the units glow red instead of the optimal blue when you take that route and don't show up in the app on the phone as functional. It might be a good solution for you, as you could run Cat 5e underground to the shop then plug in a unit and get solid signal.

Long story short, I'd go the Ubiquiti route, or use an Eero or a Netgear Orbi which are other brands of mesh routers that are highly thought of. I'd skip the Linksys Velop choice, though.

[Kris Cook]

Just set up a Velop system in the new shop, and it works great. I am actually back-feeding the house using wireless from the shop. Modem is in a Comm Closet in the shop main floor, first node is upstairs in the office, and connected through ethernet cable, second node is in the kitchen in the house, with a third node upstairs. Coverage is seamless.