Hand Held Electric Planer Disaster [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

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Erich Weidner

07-20-2019, 11:12 PM

I attempted to use a hand held electric planer to flatten a wide panel. (I'm still on #5 of 6). My Jack hand plane is out of commission and I'm out of time.
Purchased an hand held electric. Have never used one before, but it was pretty disastrous. It removes a nice strip of material, but how in the heck do you flatten with it? I ended up with a horrible stair stepped mess.

I put it back in the box and spent the last few hours trying to salvage it with my #8 Jointer handplane set for an aggressive cut. Not going well. Hopefully I'm not looking at a "do-over".

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David Buchhauser

07-20-2019, 11:23 PM

Hi Eric,
I believe that the electric hand held power planers are intended to plane material that is less than (or no wider than) the width of the blades. For example - the edge of a door. I seem to remember another post on SMC a while back which addressed this same issue. Good luck!
David

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David Buchhauser

07-21-2019, 3:32 AM

Hi Eric,
I did find a video showing using a power planer to plane a board wider than the planer. I suppose that the results depend on the technique. From your photo, it looks like some long deep gouges from the planer. Is it possible that it has a burr or other defect on the blade?
David

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfgEVSBD2E4

Tom M King

07-21-2019, 8:18 AM

There is a reason that finishing hand planes have cambered blades (irons).

Mark Hennebury

07-21-2019, 9:52 AM

You can use a power plane or a belt sander, handplane or anything else that removes wood. Each requires, knowledge, understanding and practice.
I have used a power plane many times for flattening table tops. First requirement is that you know how to check for flat, so the you understand what you are trying to achieve and how to get there.
The next is how to adjust the plane, ( they are adjustable) you can set them for a a fine cut or a coarser cut, adjust the blade angle.you don't have to dig trenches.
You plane only the areas that need planing, then check your progress, then plane some more and check you progress. You don't simply run the plane over the entire top. You plane off the high spots only. You can plane 45 degrees one way then 45 degrees the other way then finish up long grain with a very fine pass.
How did you check your table for flat?
Have you checked that the blade is adjusted parallel with the sole? ( it doesn't look like it is) ,
Why have you planned the whole top?
Why is your blade cutting so deep?
How thick is your table top?
Is it on a flat, rigid base? Large table top can flex quite a bit depending on the support.

Erich Weidner

07-21-2019, 9:16 PM

There is a reason that finishing hand planes have cambered blades (irons).

No doubt! I was thinking that if this cutter was convex that would have made things easier.

Erich Weidner

07-21-2019, 9:20 PM

You can use a power plane or a belt sander, handplane or anything else that removes wood. Each requires, knowledge, understanding and practice.

Clearly, I figured that out. :) (Figured out I didn't know what I was doing). I'm just going to return the thing. I didn't at all enjoy using it, and I have trouble concieving how one would make multiple passes without digging a trench. Even at a 2mm cut depth I couldn't get the tracks to go away. By the time I got it outside into better raking light, it was a disaster. I'm tossing the whole panel. Need to go buy another 3 boards tomorrow and glue up again. This time, I'll just stick with my hand planes. Takes a lot of time, but at least I can get there. :)

Pat Barry

07-21-2019, 9:45 PM

Clearly, I figured that out. :) (Figured out I didn't know what I was doing). I'm just going to return the thing. I didn't at all enjoy using it, and I have trouble concieving how one would make multiple passes without digging a trench. Even at a 2mm cut depth I couldn't get the tracks to go away. By the time I got it outside into better raking light, it was a disaster. I'm tossing the whole panel. Need to go buy another 3 boards tomorrow and glue up again. This time, I'll just stick with my hand planes. Takes a lot of time, but at least I can get there. :)

2mm seems like a very deep cut. Back it off to 1/4 mm or so (0.010"). Plane at a 45 degree angle across the board to start, then when its pretty good, back off even more to finish.

Mark Hennebury

07-21-2019, 10:36 PM

Lets start with the basics; Flat
Flat is your staring point.
How flat are you looking for?
How flexible is your panel?
If your panel is flexible, then you can only get it "flat" relative to what it is resting on.
Granite surface plates are sat on three points arranged in a triangle, and are thick enough "not to flex"
So the support is important.
Lets assume that you are happy with the support of your top and move on to checking it for flat.

The way that i would check it is to have a straight edge long enough to go across the diagonals.
I use five points of reference for initially establishing a flat surface.
The four corners and the center.
You can use shims or not, that's up to you.
If you want to use shims you can use anything, lets say five dimes.
Place them up on corners and one in the center,
Lay your straight edge across the diagonals if it is flat it will touch the corners and the center.
If your table is flat, the straight edge will touch three dimes across both the diagonals.
if the straight edge has a gap over the center dime then the two corners are high and need to be lowered.
if the straight edge sits high and pivot on the center dime, then the centre is high and needs to be planed.
You have to be able to read your surface, and see where it needs to be planed.
Then you move on to planing only what needs to be planed.
You have to know what you are trying to accomplish.
You have to visualize in the top ,the flat plane that you are working towards.
Then you set you plane up to get you there as efficiently as you can. If you are experienced and confident then you can take heavier cut cuts, and reduce the cuts as you get closer to the finish line.
Like Pat said; 2mm is a very deep cut.

Clearly, I figured that out. :) (Figured out I didn't know what I was doing). I'm just going to return the thing. I didn't at all enjoy using it, and I have trouble concieving how one would make multiple passes without digging a trench. Even at a 2mm cut depth I couldn't get the tracks to go away. By the time I got it outside into better raking light, it was a disaster. I'm tossing the whole panel. Need to go buy another 3 boards tomorrow and glue up again. This time, I'll just stick with my hand planes. Takes a lot of time, but at least I can get there. :)

Doug Dawson

07-22-2019, 4:33 AM

Clearly, I figured that out. :) (Figured out I didn't know what I was doing). I'm just going to return the thing. I didn't at all enjoy using it, and I have trouble concieving how one would make multiple passes without digging a trench. Even at a 2mm cut depth I couldn't get the tracks to go away. By the time I got it outside into better raking light, it was a disaster. I'm tossing the whole panel. Need to go buy another 3 boards tomorrow and glue up again. This time, I'll just stick with my hand planes. Takes a lot of time, but at least I can get there. :)

2mm is waaaaay too deep a cut. That is not planing, that is excavating. :^)

David Buchhauser

07-22-2019, 7:27 AM

Doug,
I think you guys are being way too hard on him. Let it go!! Everyone does not have the experience and expertise that you may have.
David

Steve Rozmiarek

07-22-2019, 8:36 AM

Don't give up on the electric planer, it is a useful tool. I personally use one often as a scrub plane on the slabs I use for countertops and stair treads that have warped a little in drying. Try setting it for a light cut and going diagonal once you are done with heavy stock removal. You should be able to get to a sandable or hand plane ready state pretty quickly. The key is lighter cuts as you progress.

Doug Dawson

07-22-2019, 12:46 PM

Doug,
I think you guys are being way too hard on him. Let it go!! Everyone does not have the experience and expertise that you may have.

It's likely possible to recover the surface that was gouged by the electric planer. With the electric planer. With a much lighter cut. That's not criticism, it's actionable. IOW, with that, don't give up. A bit of thickness will be sacrificed. Continuing on with that surface (which the OP is considering writing off) would be excellent practice.

BTW, if the surface is being caused to sag by the size of the table beneath it, shore it up and level it with some work supports. In contrast to what would be required for hand planing, the electric planer doesn't require as much resistance to lateral forces.

Bill Carey

07-22-2019, 1:00 PM

You could always file the corners off those skinny little blades......
Here's a vid that is perhaps the best tutorial on hand power planers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a1HCqK5i-A

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a1HCqK5i-A)

Robert Hazelwood

07-22-2019, 1:39 PM

The issue with electric planers on wide stock is not so much that the blades aren't cambered, it's that there is no sole to the sides of the blade. A bench plane will have a 1/4" or so of sole to each side of the blade, which helps maintain flatness in the direction perpendicular to the planing stroke (i.e. keeps it flat across the width while you're planing down the length). An electric planer has almost no control in this direction- it will happily create deep hollows, ridges, furrows, etc. Lean the plane over just a bit and it will make a sloped channel through the surface. It's like trying to flatten a slab with a rabbeting plane.

Mostly you should just use it as a spot removal tool. Use a straightedge or do some hand planing to see where the big high spots are, then take just those spots down with the planer. Be conservative with the cut depth, no need to remove everything in one pass when the real danger is removing too much too fast. I would mostly avoid trying to take full passes over the surface, and if I did I would have it set for a very light cut (maybe 1/64")

Erich Weidner

07-23-2019, 1:15 AM

Thanks all. I appreciate the advice. But in truth, I don't think I'll ever have cause to use it again beyond this project and I got the other 5 panels done with handplanes, it just takes me 5-6 hours each panel. I was trying to go fast as I'm very behind schedule.

I don't enjoy ripping long boards by hand much so I have a table saw. I use a compound miter saw a good bit as well. I have a jigsaw because my bandsaw broke and I rarely used it anyway. And for work outside of my shop it is flexible. I use a router table for mouldings, and my trim router for easing/rounding over edges on table tops. I use my track saw for cutting up plywood sheets (I had a nice cross cut sled for the table saw I built, but it takes up too much precious shop space, and the Festool track saw system takes up almost nothing (in floor square footage). Anyway, lots there, but basically it means I'm no proper neadertal, but chisels and handplanes are what brought me into the hobby and I realize that I would really just never "want" to use the power handheld planer again, so... just too much money.

I returned it and just ordered a Lie-Neilson #5 to replace my (non vintage, but 15 year old) Stanley one which the front knob screw just broke on me. (No idea how I"ll get that broken screw out...) Now, that I'm excited for to show up. Though, it won't arrive in time to finish this project.

Zac wingert

07-23-2019, 3:42 AM

I have no experience with a planer like this, but you can’t write it off after one bad try. How will you learn?

David Buchhauser

07-23-2019, 4:16 AM

I have no experience with a planer like this, but you can’t write it off after one bad try. How will you learn?

Hi Zac,
I have one of these planers, but have not used it much. I have learned a lot from this discussion, particularly from the comments by Robert Hazelwood. I wonder if it would be possible to make a "shoe" for a power planer to help keep it level (side to side). This might be an idea for Al Ladd to delve into.
Thanks,
David

David Buchhauser

07-23-2019, 4:20 AM

Rich Engelhardt

07-23-2019, 4:31 AM

Hand Held Electric Planer Disaster
More like Hand Held Electric Planer = Disaster
in my humble experience.

David Buchhauser

07-23-2019, 5:40 AM

Maybe read some of the other posts! Not everyone has had your experience.
David

Larry Edgerton

07-23-2019, 7:01 AM

Adjust to zero cut, add just a slight bit and use it like a hand plane. You would not do that deep of a cut with a hand plane even if it was able, so you treat the electric the same way. I will mist with flat black lacquer, hit the top with a large float to show the high spots and just take those down a bit, not all the way. I use them often on large slab tables, get close, switch to a straight line sander, the most obnoxious tool in the world, and then to a RA air board with successive grits. I make a lot of tables out of crotch cuts and hand planes are a pain with the grain constantly changing direction and crotch cuts always being full of dirt.

I have seen some of the cheaper Electrics that would not go to zero cut, those are junk. Currectly I have a Bosch. An electric plane is a good tool. I use an older one set light when recycling painted wood to get the paint off so I don't have to sand, an older still one for OSB flooring that has swelled on the joints, etc. And I will never give up my PC door plane!

Ole Anderson

07-23-2019, 8:30 AM

This shipwright is a genius with an electric planer, he has a ton of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a1HCqK5i-A How to tune your electric planer.

Robert Hazelwood

07-23-2019, 10:04 AM

Hi Zac,
I have one of these planers, but have not used it much. I have learned a lot from this discussion, particularly from the comments by Robert Hazelwood. I wonder if it would be possible to make a "shoe" for a power planer to help keep it level (side to side). This might be an idea for Al Ladd to delve into.
Thanks,
David

This is something I've pondered a bit. All electric planers that I know of are based on a powered jointer instead of a hand plane. There is an infeed and outfeed sole, the cutterhead is set level with the outfeed sole and depth of cut is adjusted by raising/lowering the infeed. This is probably ideal for stock that is narrower than the cutter. What would be more useful to me is something that works best on a wide board that is too big for my jointer or planer. For that I think it would be better to base the design on a bench plane, with a fixed flat sole wider than the blade, and a depth adjustment mechanism that moves the cutterhead up and down instead of the sole. This should be as accurate and controllable as a handplane, with less hassle than the alternative flattening methods like router sleds, etc. Basically it would be the ideal tool for the job the OP is trying to do.

I've made a proof of concept prototype - I removed the front and rear soles from my Makita 3-1/4" planer and mounted it into a plywood body with a large flat sole (about 24" long x 8" wide) so that the cutterhead hangs down about 0.010 below the sole (depth of cut not adjustable on this crude prototype). I've only experimented a little with this, but so far it is almost exactly like using a try plane with a powered cutter. I can thickness a wide panel down to a marked line accurately and quickly. The surface quality is pretty good- if I could get the knives adjusted more perfectly (I hate the quick-set system Makita uses on this), and could reduce the depth of cut for the final passes, it would be even better. There are shallow marks from the corners of the knives but they come out quickly with a smoothing plane.

Another, simpler solution I've thought about is to simply make the front sole wider, leaving everything else as is. This would mitigate the worst of the problems.

Doug Dawson

07-23-2019, 11:36 AM

David Buchhauser

07-23-2019, 11:25 PM

My Makita planer came with one.

Hi Doug,
Which model Makita planer do you have? Could you please post a few photos of the accessory "shoe""?
Thanks,
David

David Buchhauser

07-23-2019, 11:30 PM

This is something I've pondered a bit. All electric planers that I know of are based on a powered jointer instead of a hand plane. There is an infeed and outfeed sole, the cutterhead is set level with the outfeed sole and depth of cut is adjusted by raising/lowering the infeed. This is probably ideal for stock that is narrower than the cutter. What would be more useful to me is something that works best on a wide board that is too big for my jointer or planer. For that I think it would be better to base the design on a bench plane, with a fixed flat sole wider than the blade, and a depth adjustment mechanism that moves the cutterhead up and down instead of the sole. This should be as accurate and controllable as a handplane, with less hassle than the alternative flattening methods like router sleds, etc. Basically it would be the ideal tool for the job the OP is trying to do.

I've made a proof of concept prototype - I removed the front and rear soles from my Makita 3-1/4" planer and mounted it into a plywood body with a large flat sole (about 24" long x 8" wide) so that the cutterhead hangs down about 0.010 below the sole (depth of cut not adjustable on this crude prototype). I've only experimented a little with this, but so far it is almost exactly like using a try plane with a powered cutter. I can thickness a wide panel down to a marked line accurately and quickly. The surface quality is pretty good- if I could get the knives adjusted more perfectly (I hate the quick-set system Makita uses on this), and could reduce the depth of cut for the final passes, it would be even better. There are shallow marks from the corners of the knives but they come out quickly with a smoothing plane.

Another, simpler solution I've thought about is to simply make the front sole wider, leaving everything else as is. This would mitigate the worst of the problems.

Hi Robert,
This all sounds very interesting. I would be interested to see some pictures of your prototype. I'm surprised that such a tool is not already manufactured and available to purchase. Perhaps the big manufacturers feel that there is not enough of a market.
Thanks,
David

Erich Weidner

07-24-2019, 1:18 AM

I guess, I'm just admitting that I have no desire to learn it. :) I'll just focus on getting faster and more efficient with my hand planes.

Erich Weidner

07-24-2019, 1:21 AM

2mm is waaaaay too deep a cut. That is not planing, that is excavating. :^)
That is just two clicks from "zero" on the Festool electric planer. I thought it pretty light for a power tool. Maybe those marks didn't indicate MM. I'll probably never know now. (I've already returned it).

Zac wingert

07-24-2019, 3:27 AM

I guess, I'm just admitting that I have no desire to learn it. :) I'll just focus on getting faster and more efficient with my hand planes.

I gotta give you credit, most of the time the reasoning is opposite re: hand tools v. Power tools.

Rich Engelhardt

07-24-2019, 5:03 AM

I guess, I'm just admitting that I have no desire to learn it. :)+1 - I'm sure they have a value - but - IMHO, I consider the power hand plane in the same catagory as the drum floor sander. Great tool - once mastered. Disaster at the end of a cord for the unsuspecting.
In my case, the cord got snagged on the edge of the piece I was working on. I'd learned that the only way to use it was to run it semi-quickly across the surface in one smooth movement. When the cord snagged, it skewed the planer off to one side & drew a nice deep furrow right across the face of the surface.
Scratch one project and toss it on the burn pile.

Doug Dawson

07-24-2019, 5:50 AM

Hi Doug,
Which model Makita planer do you have? Could you please post a few photos of the accessory "shoe""?

Makita KP0810. It also allows you to do rabbeting, but I've never tried that with this machine (that's what the router table is for.)

BTW, I'm an ordained minister. My religion does not allow me to post pictures on the Internet. It's an Orthodox thing.

dennis thompson

07-24-2019, 6:48 AM