Jointer Help>>>>>

[Fred Jacome]

I am a woodworker want to be, I fell in love with the idea of creating modern furniture a year ago and I been colleting tools ever since, I have build a nice shop (not insulated yet) and also have been enquiring some nice tools (Saw Stop table saw, MM16 band saw …. I recently purchase a jointer thinking I will be able to have my boards perfectly flat.:o

This is where you season woodworkers can make fun of us poor beginners, I do not know what I am doing wrong, I have my new beautiful 8” grizzly jointer with spiral heads. I have level and tuned it, as they recommend. All looks perfect, BUT when I took a board that is slightly cup and run it through the jointer, the boards cuts at the front of the board but does not cut at the back, I keep on passing the board through the jointer and by the time is looks like it is flat I have the front part about ½ inch in thinness and the back is still about 1 inch. Close to the original size of the wood. Another time I try this again and this time I pass the board and after a few passes I flip the board so the front is the back and I end up with the ends being thin and the middle thicker. :mad:
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I made sure that the jointer table is perfectly straight and there are no dips in the cast iron. HELP I do not know what I am doing wrong. I do not want to try this with my good wood.:rolleyes:
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I think I am in love… never thought a person can fall in love with tools, I think is a vise and I have lost control…… but I love this new found fascination:D .
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Thanks
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Fred

[Tyler Howell]

Welcome Fred,

Are you placing consistant preasure on the outfead table??

[Jim Dunn]

Fred double check that the outfeed table is ABSOLUTELY parallel to the in feed table and at the exact level to the cutter head. Just a suggestion but how are you checking the location of the outfeed table. You need a rather long straight edge I would think. Just $.02 Hope this helps

Jim

[Steve Jenkins]

Fred if the tables are parallel with each other and the outfeed is even with the top of the knife circle then it may be technique.

Using a jointer is a lot like using a hand plane. You want to take off the high spots until you can take a full pass.

It's important to have most of your hand pressure on the outfeed table as soon as possible since this is your reference for flat.

If your board is cupped in its length (like a big smile ) put the convex face down and sort of balance on the infeed table. make a few passes and you will take some off the middle of the board creating a flat area. This will often remove some stress and the board will tend to straighten some. You may be able to continue on this face and finish flattening the board or you might need to fip it over and take some off each end. If you flip it so the concave face is down carefully place the center over the cutterhead and take some off the trailing end then spin it around and do the same on the other end.try not to press down in the center of the board when doing this as it will just spring back after you make your cut.

A jointer seems like a very simple machine but to get it to perform at it's best requires some practice. Just like with a handplane after you make a pass or two sight down the board and see where you need to concentrate your efforts.

Regarding safety, Don't have your hands on the board directly over the cutterhead and don't have a finger or two hanging over the back end trying to push. As soon as practical transfer both hands to the outfeed table.
Keep the tables well waxed so they are nice and slippery. You should do this with all surfaces that you are sliding wood on.

If you are jointing a piece that is bowed and the concave face is down expect that it will hit the edge of the outfeed table when it passes the cutterhead. This is one reason I start on the other face and center the board if on the concave face.

[Jim Becker]

What Steve said, with the addition that your hand pressure should only be enough to keep the board on the table(s)...not so much that you deform the board. Why? Because you only want to cut off the high spots.

[Allen Bookout]

Fred,

I just got a video from Woodcraft for $11.95 called "Tuning-up A Jointer" by John White who takes care of and test machines for Fine Woodworking. It has some good information and I think that it is well worth the money. Could be of some help. Allen

[Fred Jacome]

I really what to thank you guys for all the advice and how fast you have responded. I have an expensive straight edge that is true that I got from Lee Valley, I used it to make sure the table is perfectly lineup.

I think this problem might have to do with the way I am passing the board through the jointer, I put even pressure all the way and never transfer it to the out feed table? That is what the tech. from Grizzly told to do, but he also said this morning that a board that is curved lengthwise is almost impossible to make it flat.

I will try transferring my weight to the out feed table, this brings another question. Do I put any weight to the front of the board? If I do I will always be removing stock at the beginning?

Again thank you guys, I hope one day I can contribute some learn knowledge as you all of you have,

Fred

[Jim DeLaney]

Put the board, concave side down, on the jointer table. Applying virtually no downward pressure, slide the board through the jointer, moving your hands to the outfeed side as soon as about one third of the board has passed over the head.

The jointer will cut at the beginning of the board, and again at the end of it, probbly leaving the middle portion of it uncut.

Repeat this several times. Each pass should result in more of the board, front and rear, being cut, and leaving a shorter cection of center uncut with each pass.

When you get a smooth, continuous cut for the full length of the board, you're done. Now you neet to move the board over to the planer and remove the high portion of the convex side - again making multiple passes.

On a severely bowed board, you may end up making a quarter-inch board out of a one-inch one, but they'll be flat and straight - at least until the weather changes and they warp again...

[Barry O'Mahony]

Put the board, concave side down, on the jointer table. Applying virtually no downward pressure, slide the board through the jointer, moving your hands to the outfeed side as soon as about one third of the board has passed over the head.

The jointer will cut at the beginning of the board, and again at the end of it, probbly leaving the middle portion of it uncut.That's what I do, with no pressure on the middle of the board. Otherwise, the board bends from the pressure, and just springs back into a bowed shape when you are done.

This is different than the usual advice one reads to start putting pressure on the outfeed table just past the cutterhead as soon as possible, but that just ends up turning bowed boards into tapered ones, for me anyway.

[Jim Becker]

... moving your hands to the outfeed side as soon as about one third of the board has passed over the head.

I'll modify this as 1/3 of a short board might be appropriate for safety, but it will be much less for a long board. I would describe it as, "Shift your focus to the outfeed side as soon as enough material has passed over the cutterhead to allow you to be able to place both hands on the outfeed side safety while alternating hands."

Be sure the jointer is set for a light cut, too. It requires more passes, but lets you finesse only enough material off the side of the board as necessary to flatten it. Don't worry if there is a little bit left when you stop...if most of the board is flat, you can then use the planer to true up both sides, so you don't take too much off only one side. This is important as taking a lot more off one side can result in a moisture imbalance and more movement after milling.

[Mark Singer]

Sounds to me that the tables are not coplanner. The outfeed table may be lower towards the end of the jointer....check it with a thraight edge...make them the same height and you should see no light below. ...It may be riding down hill as you go on the outfeed side.

[Dan Larson]

Hi Fred,

I can relate to your jointer experience. I managed to turn the very first bowed board that I jointed into a giant wedge, too.:eek: As they say... was it the car, or the nut behind the wheel? Jointer was adjusted just fine-- operator error in this case. After a little head scratching, more reading, and some practice I now can successfully take the bow out of boards. Jim, Barry, & Jim have pretty well hit the basics and the finer points of the procedure that works for me. I'm sure with this procedure and some more practice, you'll find your zen with your beloved jointer.

Welcome to SMC, by the way. Ain't it great?

Dan

[Rick Lizek]

It sounds as if your outfeed table is a few thousandths higher than your cutting circle. This will cause the cut to be tapered. Try dropping the outfeed table down until you have snipe and bring it up until the snipe disappears.

[David Fried]

Fred,

You've already gotten lots of good advice so just let me say:

1. Welcome to the creek.
2. No one is going to laugh at us beginners because
we out number the experts, besides they went
through the same things to become experts!

It really is nice to have a place like this to ask these questions
rather than sitting your shop staring at a problem wondering
what to do next.


I'm sure you'll master that beast.


Dave Fried

[Jim Dunn]

Well said David! And thanks for echo-ing it in print!

[Allen Bookout]

After dealing with my joiner problem I tend to agree with what Jim Dunn, Mark Singer and Rick Lizek have intimated. Even though the tables are level with one another it could still be a set up problem since the result is a tapered board. If the tables are in perfect alignment with each other it surely could be that the outfeed table is not adjusted properly with the blades. In fact that is the only thing that it could be it seems to me. Have you tried Rick Lizek's solution?

As a last resort you might want to check out the video that I mentioned earlier. Good information.

It is going to be interesting to see the outcome.

Allen

[Dan Forman]

I'm going to be following this thread, having made a few "wedges" myself. I have had the best luck with turning the board around and feeding in the opposite direction after the first pass,though with figured stuff it gets dicey. This happens in spite of various strategies in transferring pressure to outfeed table. As far as I can tell, tables are aligned properly, and outfeed is even with top of cutter. A reasonable flat piece doesn't present any problems.

Dan

[Alan Turner]

Fred,
Welcome to SMC. I think Rick is correct; that is, your outfeed table is set above the knives. When this happens, you will joint the fornt of the board, but never the rear, creating a wedge. Use a straightedge off of the rear table until the cutterhead just kisses the knives. Just barely. Just .001 or so. It is probably better for you to lower the outfeed table to well below the cutting arc, and then raise it to the point you need so there is no backlash which might result from getting to the right place from the top down. Of course, this adjustment is done with the jointer turned off, and unplugged is safer still.

Other than that, the notion of light pressure so that you do not deform the board you are trying to flatten is sound advise also.

Good luck, and let us know how it works out.

[Byron Trantham]

I'm going to be following this thread, having made a few "wedges" myself. I have had the best luck with turning the board around and feeding in the opposite direction after the first pass,though with figured stuff it gets dicey.Dan

Dan, that is what I do as well. I don't have to do it much, but once in a while I get board that, I don't know, just won't "follow the rules" and turning it end for end seems to fix the problem. Of course my jointer is PERFECTLY tuned!:D

[Steve Jenkins]

I may be off base but I get the feeling from reading the threads that most people place the board on the infeed table and take a full pass every time until its flat.
When I joint a board the first thing I do is eyeball it and decide where I want to start. I will routinely set the board over the cutter and remove stock from the tail end then reverse and do the same to the other end or remove stock from just the midddle then do the ends on the opposite face working the high spots until I'm able to make a full pass or two to get the whole board flat.
One very important step is to cut the board to just a little over the length you need rather than joint long boards and cut after. It's much easier to joint shorter ones and you will be able to get a better finished thickness. Not too short though as that can be dangerous. I generally rough cut an extra inch unless the yield requires that I be closer than that (say I need 2- 24" pieces out of a 49")

[Michael Gabbay]

What Steve just said.... make your rough cuts first to shorten the board. This will take out the overall bow to something less of a problem. It also reduces the amount of flex you can place on the board while jointing.

I have a heck of a time getting long boards perfectly flat.

Mike

[Hank Keller]

Caution! Newbie reply & I dont have a jointer (yet). Can you use a table saw with your board clamped to a straight edge and run across the fence to get a straight edge??

[Steve Jenkins]

Caution! Newbie reply & I dont have a jointer (yet). Can you use a table saw with your board clamped to a straight edge and run across the fence to get a straight edge??

absolutely.
you can also make a sled for your planer and use it to get one face flat.

[Michael Adelong]

I just went though this same excercise last night. I found that my outfeed table was a little high, contributing the the taper that my improper newbie technique was already putting on the board.

I can't find the link right now, but I'll keep looking. I found a tip on how to use calipers and a board to determine if the outfeed table is too high. I just happened to have purchased the fractional dial calipers that Woodcraft had on sale for $29 last week, so it was an easy task.

I jointed one edge of a 5' long piece of 1x4" pine. Then, I ran it through the TS to make it exactly 3.5" wide. I verified with the calipers that the board was exactly 3.5" wide at 4 or 5 points along it's length. (My TS scale turned out to be under by 1/64", btw). The next step was to set the jointer for a cut - I used 1/32", and joint one edge of the board. Using the calipers, I was able to measure some taper on the leading edge - it was just under 1/64" smaller. I adjusted the OF table down as small of an amount as I could, recut the board on the TS to 3 3/8", and jointed an edge again. The second run was almost perfect. My jointer has levers, so I just loosened the adjustment screw, put a little downward pressure on the handle, and tapped the back of the hand holding the lever with my other hand. On the 3rd measurement, it was the same thickness all the way down the board. The post or article that I'm looking for said that you simply look for snipe on the training edge to determine if the OF table is too low.

The bad news is that I had 2 4' x 8" oak boards to flatten. I got the first one flat, and managed to plane it to 7/8" thick all the way except for the last 5 inches, which is ok because I only need 34" out of it. I tried to use this technique to remove twist (http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00009.asp) on the second one, but I ended up with such an oddball shape on the bottom of the board, that I can't begin to describe it. It looks sorta like a squashed boat hull... :eek:

Michael

[Fred Jacome]

I feel so stupid; I just want to cry….. I still do not know what I am doing wrong. I got home last night and took a 2 feet board with a small curve (like a sad face) at opposite ends of the board. And try to run it as suggested and again end up with a curve (like a smile.)
I got out my Low angle smoothing plane and made this board smooth by hand and just to test it out I ran this perfectly smooth board through the jointer and guess what … it removed some from the front end living the board with a half a smile and me wanting to cry with no smile.

I am so mad I really thought this will help me smooth boards, but it looks like I should stick to hand planes. I am ordering this morning a Low angle Jack plane from Lee Vallly......

I am so mad ….

but I do want to thank you all for your help <O:p</O:p
Fred

[Fred Jacome]

I have a true strait edge that I pay a bit of money from Lee Valley tools and I place this strait edge between the two tables and have then as perfectly strait as I can get it and the spiral head blades are just touching the strait edge. I was told I can not adjust the spiral head in the jointer.


Fred

[Travis Porter]

Your outfeed table isn't aligned right IMHO. Is it sagging or is it not at the right height? It took me a while, but it does work. Until you get it figured out, use some wood that is fairly straight just to get the kinks worked out.

BTW, you are ahead of me that you can do this with a hand plane.

[Steve Jenkins]

Fred, where are you located? maybe there is someone close who can give you some hands on help.

[Rick Lizek]

www.cambiumbooks.com (http://www.cambiumbooks.com) Go to the machinery section!
Sometimes the best tool is a book. I'm relatively sure your problem is a simple adjustment of dropping your outfeed table slightly. You want to keep pressure on the outfeed table as soon as you have the board on the outfeed table. I would try to find some classes in your area or perhaps a better solution is to contact a local cabinet shop and have them come over to help with your problem. Books don't always work for everyone so you need to get some real hands on help. I'd go to his shop first to see what kind of jointer he has and how he maintains it and have him give a demo on how perfect his joints are to give him some credibility. As simple as a jointer seems it can be very complicated. It's very difficult to walk someone through the steps via the internet. From your posts I don't think the Grizzly tech is giving the proper advice or really understands the tool.

[Bob Nazro]

Fred,
You have gotten a lot of great advise on things to check and how to run boards thru the jointer. So one more piece of advise. After you check for coplaner, outfeed height and squarness of the fence take a straight piece of 2x4 or 2x6 lumber and run it thru the jointer and see what you end up with. Make sure there is no snipe at the end. This will tell you what adjustments to make. The owners manual has a section covering this. If all else fails box up the jointer and send it to my shop and the gang will evaluate it for you for a few years to make sure that it's working right and get it back to you. No need to ptovide extra cutters we will replace any worn out in testing.
Good luck with the jointer. I'm sure you will be very happy with it.