Folding Table - Which One?

[Greg Parrish]

Looking for some feedback and input on folding tables like the Festool MFT and Kreg Adaptive System. I would be using this for occasional cuts using my Makita track saw, but on a more regular basis as my sanding surface for my Festool sander/vac and as an assembly/clamping table. i need easy fold up so it can move out of the way when not in use if needed.

Thanks for for helping me decide which table might work best for me.

[Ralph Okonieski]

I love my MFT. I struggled with the decision whether to order it or not when purchasing a few Festool tools. It is the one tool I use on every project. It is extremely versatile for holding, clamping, gluing, cutting, etc.

i never used or owned the Kreg system so can not comment on it.

[Joe Hendershott]

I use the MFT every day and as stated there just so many ways to use it for clamping and holding things. It gets used for sanding, the Domino, cutting and some routing. For me it's not that great a surface for assembly unless it is something quite small, there just isn't that much room on the surface and I find the the near side track support in the way. For everything else it is golden.

[Jim Becker]

While I don't use it often, I love my MFT, too. In fact, I plan on a new bench top for my primary bench that is based on the same 96mm grid system and am working on a design for a luthery specific bench that will also leverage the same.

[Doug Dawson]

Looking for some feedback and input on folding tables like the Festool MFT and Kreg Adaptive System. I would be using this for occasional cuts using my Makita track saw, but on a more regular basis as my sanding surface for my Festool sander/vac and as an assembly/clamping table. i need easy fold up so it can move out of the way when not in use if needed.

Thanks for for helping me decide which table might work best for me.

I like the Bora Centipede constructions. Do they have all kinds of "machine accommodations"? No. But they are immensely storable, and only need some plywood to flower to full usefulness. Base for a track saw? Check. Assembly table? Hell yeah. It's like somebody pulled a hole out of their pocket and dropped Wile Coyote through it. Good stuff.

[Jim Becker]

I have a couple of the Centipede units and they are indeed quite handy, albeit very wiggly until you get something on top of them. I use them for incidental auxiliary work surfaces, but not "hard work" as they are not as stable as an MFT or workbench. They were a good buy at about $35 each from Lowes on sale awhile ago.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks guys.

Anyone ever used the Armor tables? They don’t fold but they do roll and have a butcher block top with dog holes for clamping and whatnot. Probably not the best for a track saw but I could use a sacrificial top for cutting as needed. Little cheaper but I don’t know if they would really compare.

[Greg Parrish]

Just an update. I ended up deciding on one of the Armor tables. Doesn’t fold but it rolls easily. Will serve as clamping, sanding, sharpening, etc table. They had a pretty good sale on the Armor website. I’m planning to put a shelf in to store my Tormek and Grinder on so they can be pulled out to sharpen as needed.

May ya still end up with a Festool table one day for the tracksaw but for now I’m going to give this one a try. Think I can keep a scrap of MDF or something handy to throw on top when I use the tracksaw. Just won’t have the miter feature of the Festool/Kreg tables.

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[Ben Rivel]

Just an update. I ended up deciding on one of the Armor tables. Doesn’t fold but it rolls easily. Will serve as clamping, sanding, sharpening, etc table. They had a pretty good sale on the Armor website. I’m planning to put a shelf in to store my Tormek and Grinder on so they can be pulled out to sharpen as needed.

May ya still end up with a Festool table one day for the tracksaw but for now I’m going to give this one a try. Think I can keep a scrap of MDF or something handy to throw on top when I use the tracksaw. Just won’t have the miter feature of the Festool/Kreg tables.

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That the 25"x54"? How much were you able to get it for? I was considering just getting their pre-made table top, but if I remember correctly the top was too thick to use the Festool Quick Ratcheting Clamps (LINK (https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-491594-quick-clamp-for-festool-mft-and-guide-rail-system-6-5-8-168-mm.html)).

Looks like $316 for the 25"x54" with casters and free shipping (plus ~$25 sales tax in CA): LINK (https://armor-tool.com/product/54x25-butcher-block-dog-table-casters/)
I cant tell if these table tops are all made of the same material though as some state "butcher block" and some say "hard maple butcher block".

[Greg Parrish]

Yes, the 25x54. It was 437 shipped with the casters and clamp package. Two clamps are backordered but they shipped what was available. It has 3/4” dog holes and I’m not sure about the Festool clamps but I guess you could bore them out slightly to 20mm to use Festool products. It is thicker than the Festool tables as this measures 1.5” thick. It appears to be solid hard maple that is glued up like any other workbench. Only thing I can say that’s different is it has a rough spray or roll on clear coat on the top for protection but it’s left ruff for friction grip I think. https://armor-tool.com/product/54″-x-25″-butcher-block-dog-table-incl-deluxe-dog-clamp-package-and-casters/

Its a nice table but I’m not loving the casters. The table base is very narrow and the casters have a slight amount of play when locked so it does have some movement when you push hard on the top. I’m contemplating removing the casters and bolting it to a PM3500 mobile base as I need to be able to move it easily. If you put the adjustable feet on instead of the casters it would solve the movement too but then it wouldn’t be mobile of course.



That the 25"x54"? How much were you able to get it for? I was considering just getting their pre-made table top, but if I remember correctly the top was too thick to use the Festool Quick Ratcheting Clamps (LINK (https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-491594-quick-clamp-for-festool-mft-and-guide-rail-system-6-5-8-168-mm.html)).

Looks like $316 for the 25"x54" with casters and free shipping (plus ~$25 sales tax in CA): LINK (https://armor-tool.com/product/54x25-butcher-block-dog-table-casters/)
I cant tell if these table tops are all made of the same material though as some state "butcher block" and some say "hard maple butcher block".

[Ben Rivel]

Yes, the 25x54. It was 437 shipped with the casters and clamp package. Two clamps are backordered but they shipped what was available. It has 3/4” dog holes and I’m not sure about the Festool clamps but I guess you could bore them out slightly to 20mm to use Festool products. It is thicker than the Festool tables as this measures 1.5” thick. It appears to be solid hard maple that is glued up like any other workbench. Only thing I can say that’s different is it has a rough spray or roll on clear coat on the top for protection but it’s left ruff for friction grip I think. https://armor-tool.com/product/54″-x-25″-butcher-block-dog-table-incl-deluxe-dog-clamp-package-and-casters/

Its a nice table but I’m not loving the casters. The table base is very narrow and the casters have a slight amount of play when locked so it does have some movement when you push hard on the top. I’m contemplating removing the casters and bolting it to a PM3500 mobile base as I need to be able to move it easily.
How stout/thick/stable is the steel frame? It looks like the standard Rockler/Peachtree type legs and rails just painted red, but they dont mention the thickness or gauge steel used on Armor's website.

[Greg Parrish]

Its very heavy. Don’t know thickness off hand but was shocked at how heavy the package was at around 110 lbs. don’t know how it compares to those other brands but it seems very stout to me.


How stout/thick/stable is the steel frame? It looks like the standard Rockler/Peachtree type legs and rails just painted red, but they dont mention the thickness or gauge steel used on Armor's website.

[Greg Parrish]

As an update in case anyone else considers this table, I came up with a better solution than the original casters. The table is tippy feeling on the original casters. The foot print is too narrow the casters had a little movement in them and it made the table feel teeter tottery. I need it mobile so the included feet were not an option.

So, I decided to try a Portamate PM3500 mobile base with extension rail, with a piece of 3/4” plywood all through bolted together. It may look goofy but the end result is now it is rock solid and could probably serve as a planing bench if needed. The shelves are great for storage and the weight of my grinders in There helps make it more stable. Next up is an electrical outlet and extension cord on one end, and then mount spots for the armor clamps to hang on it.

Anyway, probably just humoring myself but figured I would share

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[Rick Potter]

Greg,

Just wondering why you lose the miter feature with this bench?

Are you saying the holes are not lined up accurately?

I must be having a senior moment, but it looks to me like all you need are some dogs.

[Greg Parrish]

Rick, Both the Festool and Kreg tables come with a miter gauge assembly that attaches to the tracksaw track to cut accurate miters. This bench doesn’t have such since it isn’t specifically geared towards tracksaw. That’s all I meant.

I’m sure I will be able to improvise something for the tracksaw once I get to it but I haven’t really put much thought into it yet other than to just throw a piece of sacrificial wood on top when using it. Open to any suggestions. Thanks. :)



Greg,

Just wondering why you lose the miter feature with this bench?

Are you saying the holes are not lined up accurately?

I must be having a senior moment, but it looks to me like all you need are some dogs.

[Jim Becker]

Greg, if the holes bored in the top were in the same 96mm grid centers as the Festool MFT and 20mm in diameter, it would be reasonable to be able to use a "standard" track saw setup for miter cutting. However, you'd want that top to be intended to be sacrificial for obvious reasons...it will get chewed up if you cut on it just like a "real" MFT top does over time.

[Greg Parrish]

So the Festool dog holes are 96mm center to center along both axis? Just making sure I follow. Don’t want to chew up my top but could make an MDF overlay to use with tracksaw.

I know the dog holes on the armor are 3/4” rather than 20mm, but you could easily bore them out slightly to 20mm with an appropriate bit I would think.



Greg, if the holes bored in the top were in the same 96mm grid centers as the Festool MFT and 20mm in diameter, it would be reasonable to be able to use a "standard" track saw setup for miter cutting. However, you'd want that top to be intended to be sacrificial for obvious reasons...it will get chewed up if you cut on it just like a "real" MFT top does over time.

[Jim Becker]

Theoretically, you could bore out the holes slightly to 20mm, but it would be "amazing" if you were able to do that and keep them as accurate as you would want for absolute square references. It would be better to replace the top in that respect with one that has the original bores in the "correct" grid with 20mm holes if you want to go that route, However, if the .75" holes are on a regular and accurate grid, no matter what that grid is, they are already usable for squaring accuracy.

[Greg Parrish]

Good point. I’ll need to check them for square as they should be but as mentioned this is a clamping table rather than a tracksaw miter table so who knows. One thought is that Kreg uses 3/4” dogs for their table so if spacing were the same I might be able to use their parts. Regardless, if it becomes a huge deal I can always add a folding Festool MFT down the road as it would take minimal space when folded and stored. Thanks.



Theoretically, you could bore out the holes slightly to 20mm, but it would be "amazing" if you were able to do that and keep them as accurate as you would want for absolute square references. It would be better to replace the top in that respect with one that has the original bores in the "correct" grid with 20mm holes if you want to go that route, However, if the .75" holes are on a regular and accurate grid, no matter what that grid is, they are already usable for squaring accuracy.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Good point. I’ll need to check them for square as they should be but as mentioned this is a clamping table rather than a tracksaw miter table so who knows. One thought is that Kreg uses 3/4” dogs for their table so if spacing were the same I might be able to use their parts. Regardless, if it becomes a huge deal I can always add a folding Festool MFT down the road as it would take minimal space when folded and stored. Thanks.

I have a Festool MFT, but there are times I would like a larger top similar to the Festool MFT.

Reading this thread, I finally broke down and bought the UJK Technology Part Guide System. This jig basically allows you to build any size bench dog table top.


https://tsoproducts.com/workholding-accessories/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system/

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Chris. Looks like a good way to go to create my own top that can be put right on top of my Armor bench as needed. Found this guide link on their site showing what I’m thinking. https://knowledge.axminster.co.uk/how-to-build-a-power-tool-table-part-3/

still trying to decipher her the difference between the link you provided and their MKII model. https://tsoproducts.com/accessories/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system-mark-ii/



I have a Festool MFT, but there are times I would like a larger top similar to the Festool MFT.

Reading this thread, I finally broke down and bought the UJK Technology Part Guide System. This jig basically allows you to build any size bench dog table top.


https://tsoproducts.com/workholding-accessories/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system/

[Rick Potter]

Hi Greg,

I have the same table, and found that some 3/4" dogs fit, others are a bit tight. The basic plastic dogs they sell at Rockler fit well. I believe Armor sells their own.

I haven't done it yet but it seems that two dogs across the top to hold the work, two along the length to hold the track, and you can square up and cut most sizes of cabinetry.

My thought was to use the dogs to hold the track, then route a half inch deep, 3/4" wide dado into the table. Insert a replaceable sacrificial piece in the slot, and you would be good to go.

If this method has problems, perhaps others can enlighten me before I make a big mistake.

For me, the easiest way to clamp things on the bench is to use the Kreg 'Bench Clamp Base'. It uses a 1/2" bolt through the holes, with a big door handle sized nut on the bottom of the bench. You can use it in any hole a 1/2" bolt will go through. I have several lengths of bolts for various places. The Kreg bench clamp fits it and swivels 360.

[Jim Becker]

My thought was to use the dogs to hold the track, then route a half inch deep, 3/4" wide dado into the table. Insert a replaceable sacrificial piece in the slot, and you would be good to go.

Making the recess and insert as a sliding dovetail would make things easier to replace and eliminate any mechanical hold-down anywhere near where a blade would cut. Of course, this is really only practical for 90º cuts or maybe a dedicated angle, such as 45º since putting in multiple replaceable strips would be, um...a potential nightmare.

[Greg Parrish]

I don’t want to cut my top. I plan to use this as a catch all bench for everything from my grinder, my tormek, clamping, sanding, assembly, etc. I do like the idea of the thing Chris posted that would let me create an MFT style top box that I can place on top of the Armor bench when I want to use the tracksaw. In theory you should be able to use the Festool track miter with that setup.

[Mike Kreinhop]

still trying to decipher her the difference between the link you provided and their MKII model. https://tsoproducts.com/accessories/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system-mark-ii/

The beginning of this video explains the difference between the original and MKII.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sLtHYEo-nw

[ChrisA Edwards]

I initially ordered the original Parf system, then came across the Mark II version early this afternoon, so I contacted TSO Products and was able to cancel my original order and get the Mark II version.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks for the video Mike. I’ve got the MKII model bookmarked to order when I get ready. Looks like the best option for me. Thanks again.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Just a follow up, I got the Parf Bench Dog Guide System Mark 2, bought a sheet of 4' x 8' MDF.

Cut it down to size 40" x 76" to just overlap my work bench and used the Parf system to drill the Bench Dog holes.

I did guide rail holes at 32mm offset to the main matrix of 96mm holes, along the outside of the two long sides, to be used for the Festool Guide rail for cross cutting. This allows use of the guide rail where the saw line will not cut through a row of dog holes. I can now support and cross cut about 40".

Between the 96mm holes, I drilled holes at 48mm, i.e. the center of each 96mnm square.

My main goal was to create a cutting platform where I can use the Festool Track Saw and Rail that offers a little more capacity for cross cutting panels than what the Festool MFT allows.

I'm not sure I need holes in the last third of the sheet, but could add them later if necessary.

https://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Work%20Bench/BenchDogTop_zpsenggk9rw.jpg