Squaring Up Really Long Boards... Tips? [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Erich Weidner

07-06-2019, 12:31 AM

I have a few dozen long boards I need to glue up into large panels. (11' to 16' for each section). They will be about 32" wide.
I'm gluing up from 1 x 6 S4S stock. (So nominally 3/4" x 5-1/2"). They of course all have some bow, cup, or twist.

I don't care at all about the look of one flat face (bottom). But obviously need to be able to glue up the edges then clean up the "top" face.

I started working today and decided that trying to square up each board first was going to kill me, so I proceeded to edge plane them in pairs (so as to limit issues with glue up if my planing wasn't dead 90 degrees). I'm getting shavings the length of the board now with my No. 8 jointer, but when I go to dry fit them there are some small gaps (in the middle) as if the boards edges were bowed.

My longest good straightedge is an aluminum Veritas one at 4'. Everything seems to look good to it. I can't see any bow by eye sighting down the board. If I just keep planing with the jointer, will it true up? Or for a board this long (11' in this case) is even the 24" long sole of the No. 8 just not long enough?

I'll be going back at it again tomorrow as I need to get this done and glued up by Tuesday. Any suggestions on how to most efficiently work would be helpful.

I'm working on an improvised "bench", I make on top of the bar at the job site and some Veritas surface clamps acting in for vices/clamps. (See image). This "bench is about 8' long, I knocked together a bench slave as well for the longer boards. I'm starting on the 11 footers.

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PS. If anyone is wondering, yes this is amatur hour. And I'm both the client and the contractor for this. ;)

Derek Cohen

07-06-2019, 12:49 AM

Hi Erich

There is a limit to what you can do with match planing. This can - as you have discovered - accentuate anything that is not flat.

My thought is that you could use coloured chalk on one edge, and rub them together (very small movements) to find the high spots. Then plane these off.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek Cohen

07-06-2019, 11:57 AM

Lowell, you can call me "My Lord and Master Derek". :)

We're all Aussies down here.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Robert Hazelwood

07-06-2019, 12:14 PM

It's just a process of doing some match planing, checking the results, and planing the spots where the boards touch until you get something close enough that you can bring the board edges tight together with only moderate hand pressure. On an 11' board, even a #8 is a short plane.

The biggest challenge I've found in straightening long boards is finding some way to keep them from flexing under the force of planing. If the board flexes you cannot really get an accurate edge- you try to plane an area you know is a high spot, but under the plane the board flexes out of the way and you can't take a shaving where you need to. So, try to support the underside of the boards as well as you can, so you spend less time chasing your tail.

Jim Koepke

07-06-2019, 12:44 PM

Eric,

Here is a method that was once described by Stanley Covington:

It uses a string and three blocks.

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Three blocks are cut to the same size. Next a few fine shavings are taken off the 'test' block. A string line is strung taught over the other two blocks, one at each end of the work to be tested. Then the high and low spots will be easily revealed by sliding the shorter blocks under the string.

Make sure the string is taught.

jtk

William Fretwell

07-06-2019, 1:09 PM

Erich, the problem with planing in pairs is variations in grain produce variations that are doubled when the edges are brought together. A low spot becomes twice as low. If the edge is a little slanted that will cancel out when you flip them together, keeping the joint straight, this is appealing but commits you to doubling surface errors lengthwise.

The aim with long boards generally is to have the very slightest concave the length of the board, when the two boards are clamped the faces come together and ensure the end joints are sound. The length of your boards makes this very problematic.

I would plane all the edges singly then try matching different edges, flip end to end etc and look for the best matches this will minimize the tuning of the edges needed. A bright light behind the edges gives you the low spots, mark the high on the side of one board and tune that until the light goes out. Use lots of clamps!

alan west

07-06-2019, 1:15 PM

Try a spring joint. I would imagine you can find a youtube video on it but is basically a slight "smile" in your edges that cancels out the high spots. Edge Plane your matched boards until you think it is flat. Set your plane to a real light shaving, then plane a single shaving in the middle third only. Then plane one shaving the middle two thirds. Bring the two edges together and you should see a slight gap in the middle tapering to nothing on each end. Using one clamp in the center you should be able to draw it closed easily. If it doesn't close up easily your shavings were too thick. Plane flat and try again. With practice a spring joint is a valuable skill to have. I have glued up a 36" x 72" panel using only one clamp in the middle

By the way, using a variation of the same technique to edge plane your boards flat when you don't have a long enough straight edge to check. You have to use a #7 or #8 plane for this to work right. Plane the middle quarter, the middle half, the middle 3/4, until hopefully your plane stops taking a shaving thru the middle 3/4 of the board. Then plane the whole length. After one or two passes you should get a continuous shaving, depending on how deep your "smile" in the middle was. When you get that continuous shaving, your board is very likely flat.

Jim Matthews

07-06-2019, 1:25 PM

I've not shot the edges longer than 6 feet - but this was how:

Snap a line for guidance. (About 1/4" from the edge).
Don't remove the line.

Plane a hollow in the center of the first edge to be glued, with the longest plane available, at twice the length of the plane.

When it will no longer take a shaving, you have established a "hollow". Plane from end to end, until a full width shaving appears, full length of the board.

Repeat the process with the second board, along the edge that will be offered to the first face.

When you're close, arrange the boards as shown in your photo - one atop the other and inspect with a light behind the joint.

The far ends should meet, with a fine gap in the center.

Nicholas Lawrence

07-06-2019, 2:13 PM

How big are these gaps if you cannot detect anything with a 4’ straightedge?

Jim Koepke

07-06-2019, 3:42 PM

You might also want to ensure your face grain is all oriented in the same direction before you glue everything together.

A spring joint or sprung joint is good for joining a couple of pieces. If a lot of pieces are being used to make a panel, by the time you get out to the edges it could become a lot of internal tension across the central face of your panel. If springing the joint, keep the gap to a minimum at the center.

jtk

Jim Matthews

07-06-2019, 3:52 PM

Enough to pass light, but not a sheet of note paper.

chris carter

07-06-2019, 4:38 PM

I had to do this exact thing with ¾” x 7” x 8ft boards. I had a 26” jointer and a 4’ aluminum straight edge. This was my process:

I laid out the boards and marked the mating edges then I jointed the edge on board #1 perfectly square and as straight as I could sight it with the straight edge. Then I grabbed board #2 and did the mating edge the exact same way. I left board #2 on the bench, grabbed board #1, and set board #1 on top mating edge to mating edge. I’d then check two things: First I’d check to make sure my edges were truly square by holding a straight edge up to the boards’ faces and seeing if the result is straight. Assuming it’s straight, I’d then look at the seam and look for gaps. I would mark all the spots where the boards touched and not where there were gaps (gaps were usually at both ends or in the middle). Then I’d take board #1 off, grab a smoother or jack, and just hit the spots I marked. Then put board #1 back on and recheck. Rinse and repeat if necessary. Once satisfied, I flipped board #2 and did the other edge and then repeated the process with board #3, etc.. In the end, the board edges will be square and will vary a few thousands in straightness along the length, but it’s mate will have the opposite waviness so all will be good.

This sounds like an painful process, but it really doesn’t take that much time. The only hard part is getting one board balanced on top of the other to check the seam when they are so long.

lowell holmes

07-06-2019, 5:08 PM

I am either an Okie or Texan. I live in Texas now, so Texan it is.

Erich Weidner

07-06-2019, 6:36 PM

Jim Koepke

07-06-2019, 7:33 PM

Today I'm trying to edge joint the boards singly. I'm getting full length shavings with the #8 but when I walk around on the edge with my 4' straight edge I have two-ish high spots (straight edge can be rocked on the "hump" like a tiny see-saw. Simply taking more full length passes doesn't seem to be fixing it. These humps seem to be localized to a small inchish section. I wouldn't expect that would be a big enough "hill" for the #8 to "ride over".

Thoughts?

It is a common result for long planes to produce a convex 'banana' board.

Sometimes its dimension can be found by relieving pressure on the front of the plane and pressing on the heel once the full length of the plane is on the board. There may be a tendency for the blade to pull the plane into the wood. If this is the case try for a thinner shaving. Then you can work just the middle of the high area.

jtk

Derek Cohen

07-06-2019, 8:53 PM

Assuming it’s straight, I’d then look at the seam and look for gaps. I would mark all the spots where the boards touched and not where there were gaps (gaps were usually at both ends or in the middle). Then I’d take board #1 off, grab a smoother or jack, and just hit the spots I marked.

This suggestion by Chris is the same as I made at the start (I recommended chalk to mark the high spots). Use a short plane to concentrate on the high spots. I differ in process in that the edges should continue to be match planed since it is difficult to control for squareness over such long boards. This leaves you free to focus on just one dimension.

Just the high spots. Short plane. Remember that the match planing doubles the shaving thickness.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Richard Line

07-06-2019, 9:01 PM

Erich Weidner

07-06-2019, 10:55 PM

Well... today was not a good day.

On-site for 8 hours, a good 5 of them just working on the board edges. I have zero boards which look flat enough to glue up. I felt like one was almost there. But when I walked the 4' Veritas straight edge down it there were a few high spots (as mentioned in my above post). So the jointer should be able to take down high spots, right? not ride them. Plane, plane plane No change. Plane, plane plane on just those localized spots... 4' straight edge looks good. Take a few full length shavings... now edges look gapped. (as in sloping down).

Planed a hollow in the middle of the board (about the middle 1/3rd) then ran full length for 3-4 passes (I'm taking a fairly aggressive shaving of about .003" - .005"). Things still not right, plane plane plane. Now it's 8PM I'm tired and grab my track saw track to check the straightness (it is still not long enough to see the whole length, but is about 7' long) . For the life of me it now looks like I've got a concave edge. I guess when I was "locally" using the 4' straight edge. Though it always showed a teeny gap I could never get it to go away. I think I hollowed out the middle. My wife comes over at that point (she's been applying finish to the door casings this whole time), and points out that I've really narrowed the board. Grabbed a tape and sure enough, I've planed away over half inch of material... sigh.

Not sure where to go from here. I'm starting to have semi-crazy desperation thoughts like going and buying that (stupid expensive) super long tracksaw track and combining with my 7' one and getting a straight edge that way. I was really looking forward to doing this via hand planes... but I don't know if I can't make the learning curve in time. I'm going to go back and re-read all the replies in this thread and try to come up with a strategy for tomorrow.

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Erich Weidner

07-06-2019, 11:23 PM

Having read all the replies and also worked on some boards that were 4 and more times longer than my plane (an LV #7), I think I would try to come up with a design that wouldn't require edge gluing 11 ft and longer boards. First thoughts were to go to a tongue and groove or mating rabbets. I suspect there are other options as well.

What I really want is for the slab (really a giant panel) to be gapless. It is a bar top, I don't want places for spills to run into and wreak havoc with the wood.

William Fretwell

07-07-2019, 1:19 AM

Erich, if you lost 1/2” clearly you are taking off too much wood and not tuning the edge. Use a shorter plane to tune the high spots, start in the middle of the board and work outwards, left, right, left, right etc.
To ensure the outer edges are tight I have run down the middle of the boards edge with my thumb on sandpaper just pressing in the middle, three or four passes only.

Derek Cohen

07-07-2019, 2:05 AM

Another thought, Erich. This is a time when you might consider using a side fence for the #8 to keep it square. That would also take another distraction out of the picture.

Here's one I made ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/CoopersJointer_html_632ddcb1.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/CoopersJointer_html_9acf06d.jpg

Just a block of wood with a rebate. Clamp it on.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/CoopersJointer_html_m7e60af87.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

Tom Trees

07-07-2019, 2:09 AM

How are you supporting these boards, is the big question.

If it were me I would think about getting a string or wire, and making an effort to be able to check this easily.
I would be starting with whats the most seemingly stable board for reference, to get the others flat.
After that, I'd match that with the second most stable board to an even better tolerance and keep these two for reference.
You can keep an eye on these two masters to see if one warps more than the other, if these boards keep moving I'd just carry on until I came across one that was
stable,
It might be worth thinking about using these planks to make a temporary bench from, clamping these boards on edge for planing on, if you have no long enough surface to support the work.

Reference and proper support is the solution.
I would make sure I had a good lamp for this, incase you don't.
Sorry I can't post a picture to show you exactly what I'm on about.
Good luck Erich
Tom

Erich Weidner

07-07-2019, 2:12 AM

Another thought, Erich. This is a time when you might consider using a side fence for the #8 to keep it square. Derek

I've actuallybeen using a Veritas magnetic straight edge on the plane. My edges are square wherever I've checked. :)

Tom Trees

07-07-2019, 2:40 AM

Seems to me, a fence for a plane would be a hindrance on boards this long if they are cupped or had a twist.
Just saying

Jim Matthews

07-07-2019, 6:38 AM

If it were me I would think about getting a string or wire, and making an effort to be able to check this easily.

... if these boards keep moving I'd just carry on until I came across one that was
stable,

Tom

These are salient points.

Runs this long require a reference, which a string line might offer.

I wonder it a dry run, clamping it altogether, might help?

You may be closer than first thought.

This is a VERY ambitious project.

Kudos

chris carter

07-07-2019, 8:42 AM

You have a 24” jointer, 11 foot boards, a 4’ straight edge, and not a ton of experience jointer super long boards (who does?!?!). The expectation that you are going to joint these boards ruler straight is, I think, completely unrealistic. This is akin to taking 30 basketballs to the court and saying “I’m going to sink every one of these… from the three point line… on the first shot.” Well, unless your name is Steph Curry, it ain't gonna happen. If you want to sink all those balls shooting from the 3 point line, you are going to have to accept that you will need to grab a few rebounds and make some easy put-backs from 2 feet out.

In this situation, the “easy put-backs” are mating the boards and knocking down the high spots like Derek and I have suggested. It’s EASY. Don’t make it harder. In woodworking, there’s no extra point for shooting beyond the arc. It’s all 2 points no matter where you take the shot from. So take the easy put-backs from 2 feet out.

Nicholas Lawrence

07-07-2019, 9:02 AM

I have only had a few projects where I tried to joint an 8’ board, and none where I tried to do something 11’ long.

I started with a chalk line. Ripped to the line with a hand saw to get it basically straight. Removed saw marks and got it square with a jack plane. Then a jointer to finish it.

If you are trying to get a perfect joint, I would think you would want the last few passes to be with a plane set to take a pretty fine cut. The idea that a full length shaving means the thing is straight is basically correct, but I don’t know how well that holds up when you are trying to measure things in thousandths. Somebody on here wrote once that if you get something flat to .001 and then breath on it, the heat and moisture from your breath will move it more than that.

The point I am trying to make is that the shavings you have on the floor look thicker than I would be expecting to work for final passes if I was trying for a tolerance as fine as it sounds like you are aiming for.

Support is important. Even with thicker stock, you will get flex under the plane if it is not supported. If you are edge jointing, I would think that would be minimal, but I have never tried to edge joint an 11’ board on an 8’ bench. Something to keep in mind. When I was doing an 8’ board on a 6’ bench I tried to compensate by adjusting the board on the bench to keep the part I was planing supported.

Focus on getting one edge as straight and square as you can, then try to match the other one to it by identifying the spots that look high and bringing them down. As mentioned above, keep grain direction in mind if you are going to then flatten the whole panel.

michael langman

07-07-2019, 10:22 AM

Maybe cut the 11 foot length in half and butt together at assembly.

steven c newman

07-07-2019, 11:16 AM

Sounds more like a much ado about...

Not enough for a slip of paper? usually, I can glue and clamp it, Jed.....with the first clamps right at the "gaps".

To keep the panel flat while you are clamping the parts together..use cauls/cawls.....just a pair of boards across the grain, add a c clamp to pull them tight.
Note:
cauls/cawls/Kawls...however you spell them...is simply two slightly curved boards...place the curve against a series of boards..like this...) l (, then a clamp on each end to pull the curves flat...and the parts you are gluing up flat as well.

Do a dry fit of all the parts, and add the clamps..NO glue...and see how it will look when glued up...
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No gaps, but I could still see a thin bit of light...
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3 board glue up...note the cawls holding things flat? Lumber is Ash....
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Because, without the cawls, there is a risk of "shadow lines" at the glue joints....cawls will ensure things are flat...

For the desk I am building at the moment..it will need a top about 52" long, by 24" wide...made from 4/4 x 6" Ash planks....should be fun to do....

Mark Gibney

07-07-2019, 11:19 AM

If you think you'll use the longer track saw in the future my advise is to get it, join it with your 7' track, and rip the edges with your track saw.

I made a couple of long tables from salvaged ipe using a track saw to edge the boards. I left the light saw marks, applied the glue and clamped them up. The glue-lines look good. If your wood is softer than ipe your glue-line will likely also be fine.

An important factor using a tack saw is that the material being ripped has to be on a flat surface or you will get a slightly concave or convex edge.

Les Groeller

07-07-2019, 11:49 AM

What I really want is for the slab (really a giant panel) to be gapless. It is a bar top, I don't want places for spills to run into and wreak havoc with the wood.

What about cutting the long boards into shorter ones and offsetting the end joints throughout the length. That way you are only edge jointing short pieces which might be easier to accomplish a gapless fit. Of course, that introduces the issue of a square joint on the ends. If it is a bar top, wouldn't you want to put a proper finish on it so a tiny gap would be filled by the finish, not?

Erich Weidner

07-07-2019, 12:59 PM

If you think you'll use the longer track saw in the future my advise is to get it, join it with your 7' track, and rip the edges with your track saw.

After a good night's sleep. While getting showered I came to the conclusion that I am going to get the long track and give that a go. (The clock is ticking). I'll see if I can make any progress that way, and if I'm ahead of schedule I'll probably try doing a few boards by hand again the way Derek and Chris have suggested.

Thanks all for the advice and moral support. :)
I'm off to do battle with the wood again.

Anuj Prateek

07-07-2019, 8:23 PM

I have tried joining two plywood pieces of ~7 ft length once to make a wider piece. Did it before I owned a hand plane or powered jointer. Sharing my experience, may be it will help.

I tried using my Jobsite table saw to get a straight edge. Goes without saying approach was not successful. Bunch of internet searches and found an approach that worked.

From memory:
- Straight line rip both boards using table saw.
- Glue boards together. Don't bother about minor (< 1/16") gaps.
- While gluing the board keep weight on both the boards to keep them flat. I did not know about cauls back then.
- Superglue some horizontal wood or plywood pieces at ends and maybe two in middle. Since edges are not glued nicely this serves as reinforcement.
- After glue dries cut them again at glue line. Use a fine finish blade. I think I used a Freud melamine cutting blade from Homedepot.
- Reglue the boards back.

I might have gotten lucky but it worked.

I used epoxy as final glue. Joined board was later sanded and painted.

Erich Weidner

07-07-2019, 11:40 PM

I forgot to take a picture, but I got one 11' x 27" panel glued up today. It is still in the clamps.
The second panel is cut. 2 down, 4 to go. :)

I ended up buying the longest track woodcraft had and combining it with my existing long-ish track. It was more than long enough for 16' boards.
Back at it tomorrow evening after day job.

William Fretwell

07-08-2019, 8:28 AM

Robert Engel

07-08-2019, 9:12 AM

Erich,

Sounds like you've got a handle on it, but I would offer a few suggestions:

Be aware a long board must be well supported along its length or it may bow in the middle as you plane.

Have you checked your plane for flatness? Any slight variations at the toe or heel of the plane will affect the beginning and end of the board.

I will mention planing technique. I hope I'm not insulting you but just for edification, lots of toe pressure at the beginning, and little to no toe pressure at the the end. Also, I like to hold my hand low on the tote for me it seems to work better.

Finally, +1 on spring joint & grain direction (if hand planing).

Brian Holcombe

07-08-2019, 9:18 AM

First thing is to forget about the ticking clock, and the wood will win every battle so it needs to become an ally.

Next, you need better prepare yourself for this job. You need a longer straight edge, a 4' isn't going to be all that helpful. 96" is where I would start, that will give you a better idea of where the edge is overall. Then you need to prepare two edges to meet. Get them close, then tune them to mate each other rather than trying to get the entirety of each board perfectly flat and square.

A slight gap in the center is needed for a tight glue up, the gap closes with clamping in the center and the edges become very tight.

I do long glue ups with a lot of clamps, two boards at a time. I clamp every 6"-8".

Winding sticks are the most important tool that the hand tool user (or any woodworker) has, use them to check your edge for accuracy to itself, not to the board face. If the board face is out of square then referencing it is useless. You'll need a general squareness, but once that is accomplished the edge needs to be flat in order to mate well to the accompanying edge.

This is the biggest area of screw up with long thin board edges in my experience. People check along the edge with a square, not realizing that the board reference face is not perfectly flat, and then the two boards won't mate well when edged up together even though they're both interpreted as square. A winding stick removes that source of error.

Jim Koepke

07-08-2019, 12:58 PM

Brian's suggestion about winding sticks clicked and reminded me of an online write up on making straight edges for use as winding sticks:

https://www.scribd.com/document/50097193/Making-Accurate-Straight-Edges-from-Scratch

Page two of this requires one to sign up for an account at the SCRIBD site. It will be in your Private Messages.

Using this method you can make 11' winding sticks which should be easy to glue up with or without spring.

jtk

Brian Holcombe

07-08-2019, 1:21 PM

Jim, the winding sticks should be about 12-16” long. Any longer and they will be difficult to balance on an edge.

Jim Koepke

07-08-2019, 8:46 PM

Jim, the winding sticks should be about 12-16” long. Any longer and they will be difficult to balance on an edge.

My wording was likely misleading. My point is using the method of making winding sticks, with the three straight faces, could work for making 11' pieces that match to be glued.

Many of the techniques mentioned in this thread so far are used by machinist to make a straight edge from scratch.

It also works for wood. The length is dependent on the one making the straight edges.

jtk

William Fretwell

07-08-2019, 9:25 PM

first thing is to forget about the ticking clock, and the wood will win every battle so it needs to become an ally.

Next, you need better prepare yourself for this job. You need a longer straight edge, a 4' isn't going to be all that helpful. 96" is where i would start, that will give you a better idea of where the edge is overall. Then you need to prepare two edges to meet. Get them close, then tune them to mate each other rather than trying to get the entirety of each board perfectly flat and square.

A slight gap in the center is needed for a tight glue up, the gap closes with clamping in the center and the edges become very tight.

I do long glue ups with a lot of clamps, two boards at a time. I clamp every 6"-8".

Winding sticks are the most important tool that the hand tool user (or any woodworker) has, use them to check your edge for accuracy to itself, not to the board face. If the board face is out of square then referencing it is useless. You'll need a general squareness, but once that is accomplished the edge needs to be flat in order to mate well to the accompanying edge.

This is the biggest area of screw up with long thin board edges in my experience. People check along the edge with a square, not realizing that the board reference face is not perfectly flat, and then the two boards won't mate well when edged up together even though they're both interpreted as square. A winding stick removes that source of error.

this is excellent advise!

Reinis Kanders

07-08-2019, 11:11 PM

Home depot has 8' length Empire level. Has worked for me pretty well as a reference and was only around $100 some 2-3 years ago.

Erich Weidner

07-09-2019, 2:05 AM

For better or for worse, I'm forging ahead with the panel glue-ups after using the track saw. Gaps seem to be closing pretty well. Using cauls and clamping about every 12". I need to get more clamps...

The first glue up definitely "cupped" I'm dealing with 7 boards to make the width (the original, now fired trim carpenter ripped everything at 5"). Definitely the 2nd panel glue up went better tonight. Much flatter. I have (a minor) surgery on Thursday. Will likely be out of commission through Fri-Sat, and need this installed (even if unfinished) by Tuesday to not impact deadlines. Between day job and this, 14-16 hour days have become the norm. Can't wait to get through this.

My normal perfectionism is getting beaten down by fatigue. :) I'm discovering "good enough".

Anuj Prateek

07-09-2019, 12:40 PM

Anuj, your double cut method relies on the width of the second cut removing some of the error from the first cut, which it will, it could be repeated as required. For real wood however the edge finish from the saw is not as good as a planed edge that could produce an almost invisible join, depending on the grain.
As for edge joining plywood where half the layered wood is running the wrong way, the result is more cosmetic than structural. Your choice of epoxy was wise as a gap filling adhesive!

I agree. Back then did not know any better.

After experiencing the finish from hand plane, I fix the saw marks now.
Previously these marks used to be invisible :)

I am a big fan of epoxy. I consider it a project saver for beginners (specifically for imperfect joinery).

Jim Koepke

07-09-2019, 1:19 PM

I am a big fan of epoxy. I consider it a project saver for beginners (specifically for imperfect joinery).

My experience is based on the 'old school' of soldering. Before printed circuit boards one needed to have a strong mechanical joint before securing it with solder. That had an influence on my thoughts on joinery in wood.

Though one thing that is great with epoxy is it will fill and hold across gaps.

jtk

Tom Trees

07-09-2019, 2:44 PM

I've heard this lots, pity it doesn't work for regluing popped guitar bridges IME, :o
I would stick to waterproof PVA type, like titebond ( "2" I think) for the job.
Tom

steven c newman

07-09-2019, 5:02 PM

Have 5 Ash 1 x 6s to make into a desk top...
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If you want to watch.....

lowell holmes

07-09-2019, 5:17 PM

Well I have been called Okie, Texan, Hey You, and many other things. I pretty much answer to all of them.

Anuj Prateek

07-10-2019, 1:51 PM

Though one thing that is great with epoxy is it will fill and hold across gaps.

jtk

This is the most important reason for my love of epoxy.
As skills in cutting joinery get refined, Titebond works equally good and cheaper.

One other thing I like about epoxy is the open time. I use System III T-88 epoxy.
Its easily usable up to 30-40 minutes (I think Gel time is 1 hour).
Even after glue up, minor adjustments can be done for another 20-30 minutes.

Side note:

I like Titebond III. It made me realize how strong is a glue joint. Before that "joint is stronger than wood" was just theory I read on internet and never fully believed.
A year back, I glued ~10 2ft x 2" x 0.75" strips of wood to make a panel. Panel ended up bowed so I threw it. Later it ended up as ramp for lawn mower (on a step).
Essentially panel has stayed outside, in ground contact, stepped on, seen rain, frost and all kind of Seattle weather for 1 year.
Center wood strip split in two half's lengthwise few months back - not at the glue line but the wood itself.
It looks terrible but none of the glue joints have broken. Both the halves are chugging along.

Anuj Prateek

07-10-2019, 1:53 PM

Have 5 Ash 1 x 6s to make into a desk top...
412570
If you want to watch.....

Following.

Erich Weidner

07-18-2019, 2:57 AM

Well, I've got the last of my giant panels in the clamps tonight. That is 6 panels of 27-32" width, and 12' length. I've certainly increased my skill in leveling the glued up panels with handplanes. However, not increased enough.

I ultimately worked through them with a #5 Jack set to take an aggressive cut. I worked across the grain (perpendicular) and there were plane tracks and tearout aplenty. I tried cleaning these up with my #8 Jointer but using it like I've seen in videos set for a moderately aggressive cut .005" it was hard to push. Too hard for the most part.
I tried finishing up with my #4 smoother, but it just wouldn't take much of a shaving anywhere. I guess I left the surface to rough. Not getting anything but little nibs off of a 12' panel meant I had to advance the blade to get a shaving, but once it started to bite, it bit too deep and wasn't really doing the job of preparing the surface for finishing. At least, I'd have been at it for months it felt like...

So I grabbed my RO sander and went at it with 40/80/100/150 grit. Things looked decent enough to me, but when we put the stain on the first two sections last night, there were tool marks and some tearout all over the place. Now, I like this look for certain things. But it wasn't what I was going for. Too late now, Nothing to do but forge ahead. The two parter panel just done (1/3rd of the project) was the "back bar". So not super customer visible. Not critical.

I went out an purchased white oak for the front bartop sections (the remaining four). I think I did a better job cleaning up the rough tool marks, but will see when the stain goes on tomorrow.

PS - I have two of the "panels" still to flatten/touch up. Tonight the screw holding down the front handle of the #5 snapped. It is a recent make of Stanley plane (bought in 2000's new). Not sure how to get the broken screw out of the shaft... that was kind of disappointing.

PPS - I guess tomorrow I'll press into service my Veritas #6 bevel up fore plane and see if I can convince it to sub in for the #5 to get the surface flattened.

Jim Koepke

07-18-2019, 12:17 PM

I tried cleaning these up with my #8 Jointer but using it like I've seen in videos set for a moderately aggressive cut .005" it was hard to push. Too hard for the most part.

One suggestion is to rub some wax on the sole of the plane to help it glide on the surface. If it is still hard to push, you may need to sharpen the blade or take a lighter shaving.

I tried finishing up with my #4 smoother, but it just wouldn't take much of a shaving anywhere. I guess I left the surface to rough. Not getting anything but little nibs off of a 12' panel meant I had to advance the blade to get a shaving, but once it started to bite, it bit too deep and wasn't really doing the job of preparing the surface for finishing.

The #4 is taking off the tops of the 'hills & valleys' left by the cross grain planing. The shavings will get longer as the tops of the 'hills' become high plateaus.

There may be other problems with the #4. One could be the blade not being sharp. The other could be a plane sole keeping the blade from engaging the wood until it is advanced significantly. Then when the blade engages it digs into the wood. If you have a straight edge this can be easily checked.

Yesterday a plane being prepped for my grandson wouldn't take a shaving pushing the plane forward with no downward pressure. It would take a 0.0009" shaving if the plane was pressed against the wood. A straight edge, in this case the ruler from a combo square, helped to locate a high spot. A few minutes of 'treatment' on a flat surface with an abrasive sheet across the sole let us get a fine shaving closer to 0.0006" without pressing down on the plane body.

jtk

Erich Weidner

07-19-2019, 11:41 PM

One suggestion is to rub some wax on the sole of the plane to help it glide on the surface. If it is still hard to push, you may need to sharpen the blade or take a lighter shaving.

I used some oil (bought it at a Lie-Neilson show), wow, what a difference a little wipe of the oil made.

There may be other problems with the #4. One could be the blade not being sharp. The other could be a plane sole keeping the blade from engaging the wood until it is advanced signific

I just freshly sharpened the blade. It is super sharp. I didn't double check the sole. But I went through the flattening ritual when I bought it 15 or so years ago.

Probably just too many high spots from the rough work left behind by the #5 and the scrub plane.

steven c newman

07-23-2019, 7:33 PM

Did anyone happen to think about running a groove along all the edges, then insert a plywood spline?

Erich Weidner

07-24-2019, 1:25 AM

Did anyone happen to think about running a groove along all the edges, then insert a plywood spline?

I've been super busy with day job. But I intend to get out to the lumberyard to purchase another three boards for this tomorrow (well today as I type this).
I think I may try domino'ing the boards to help lining up the top edge. Might as well give it a go. I'm learning stuff with this project.