deck fasteners

[Günter VögelBerg]

Thanks for answering all my questions about decking so far. I am finally ready to start putting the decking down (getting it tomorrow). It is southern yellow pine pressure treated. I know to pre-drill and countersink. Can you please recommend a specific brand/type of decking screw? I'm not really interested in the "invisible" fasteners. I will be using 2x boards screwed into regular pressure treated joists. I'd prefer to find something locally because I get the wood tomorrow.

[Steve Jenkins]

The deck I rebuilt I used square drive stainless wood screws. I got mine from McFeely. I didn’t predrill or countersink. Just ran them in. I bought a 18” extension for the drill at Home Depot. Made it much easier.

[Tom M King]

Use Deckmate fasteners with the black label on the box. They use what they call a "star drive" head, which is really just TORX. They have several variations, and the ones designed for synthetic decking don't start easily in wood. I think those have a yellow label, or at least some other color label than black. These screws come in green, and yellow. The TORX heads are much better for taking back out again, when you might want to flip the boards in 25 years, and camout, or buggering up the head is never a problem.

For 2x's, I would use the 3-1/2" screws, and they take a T25 driver bit.

If the wood is soaking wet from the treatment process, no need to drill any holes except in the ends.

Buy a bit that will snap into your impact driver, and not the little one that comes in the box with the screws. I don't remember you saying where you live, but Home Depot will have those screws, and bits.

I can take a picture of the screw box, if you need it. I'm sure I have some in my truck.

[Günter VögelBerg]

OK thanks for the input. I have Home Depot, Lowes, Fastenal and a few local outfits close by.

[Tom M King]

Don't buy Milwaukee bits. I'm not sure that Home Depot has other choices. The Milwaukee bits are a little loose in Star Drive screw heads, and that's the last thing you want. The ones that Lowes sells, that come in different colors work well. I forget the name brand, but they're usually back where the treated lumber is, and not where the other driver bits are in the hardware section. The T25's are green. I would go to two stores rather than buy Milwaukee bits while you're in HD.

[Mark Hockenberg]

Hi Gunter,

The last time I built a deck I used square drive stainless from McFeeley like Steve, although I did countersink. I love the look but you should know that the SS screws are soft and you'll have to fuss with a few. I think the Deckmates Tom mentioned would be a good choice too.

Sorry if this was already recommended, but did you put Bituthene over the tops of the joists? This will provide additional protection over and above using treated lumber.

https://ian.macky.net/house/deck_bitchathane2.jpg


Cheers,
Mark

[Tom M King]

I don't know what type of coating those Deckmate screws have. It looks like powder coating, but is a lot tougher. I had to replace some treated boards in the horse fence that I remember building in 2004, and the screws all came right out, and still looked good.

[Paul F Franklin]

I don't remember if you said how big your deck is, but if it's large, consider getting a Senco Duraspin autofeed decking screwgun and use Senco collated deck screws. The screwgun is around $200 at HD and will save you time and will save your back. Bonus, same gun can be used for sheetrock by removing the extension, should any sheetrock work be in your future. Or you can sell the gun when you are done.

[Phillip Mitchell]

You want 3 or 3 1/2" T-25 head screws with a coating on them. The bits you want for an impact driver (you want to use an impact driver, trust me...) are made by GRK Fasteners and are sold at both HD and Lowes. The T25 (2" long, 1/4" shank) bits are green and snap right into the 1/4" drive on an impact driver. I work as a carpenter, timber framer, and woodworker everyday and can usually go a few months on (1) T 25 bit before I feel like it wears down enough to replace...though I do buy them in bulk to get a better price and give them to my co-workers so I don't have to hear any complaining or if I use their driver I know there's a quality bit in there :D

I like Saber Drive screws, but haven't seen them in any of the box stores, only local building supplies, but they have an additional screw cutter on the shank up near the head of the screw that prevents a lot of spinning screws, makes removing screws much easier, and I feel like they suck the wood down better.

Like this - >https://www.amazon.com/Hillman-967781-Premium-Exterior-2-Inch/dp/B01CY8MXNC/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=power+pro+screw+deck&qid=1562034817&s=gateway&sr=8-1

I only pre-drill on the ends and you definitely don't need stainless screws unless you're using Cedar decking or just want the look of stainless steel screw heads (they are 2-3 times the price of coated exterior screws.) They are more brittle and likely to strip and break.

Flashing the tops of your framing members is a good practice and will certainly not hurt the joists.

The biggest mistake anyone can make installing decking is to install in such a way that the deck boards end up without a gap between them once they are dry. They will hold water and rot prematurely, which is likely to lead to the rot transferring down to the framing members underneath. There are some variables that come into play that hold me back from give a one-size-fits-all answer, but how much sun, wind, and overall airflow the deck boards will see on a regular basis seems to be a major factor in how well the boards are able to dry. If they are able to dry routinely then they'll certainly shrink down a bit compared to when green/wet. I have installed green PT boards and butted them tight together with no gap (and they have contracted to around 1/4" gap or more over the course of a few seasons) and I have also spaced green PT decking 3/8" and had them stay swollen and wet and not contract very much at all or even expand.

How high off the ground is the deck? Does it have direct sun on it? Does it have solid airflow from underneath? Is your PT decking green, soaking wet or KDAT (kiln dried after treatment) ? Are you putting a roundover on the edges before install? Do you have trees that overhang / are nearby that will eventually drop leaves, seeds, etc onto your deck? These are all questions that I'd ask myself before deciding on how to approach the decking spacing.

Good luck!

[Günter VögelBerg]

My boards are not going to be KDAT, so I assume they will come fairly wet. I wont know for sure until tomorrow. Deck gets partial sun and will have leaves falling on it in autumn. It is dry here (Utah) but with a decent amount of snow. It's less than a foot off the ground.

The collated screw gun is tempting, but the deck is small enough I dont think it would save much time.

I bought a big tub of the deckmate screws. I noticed they sell them in green--who buys those and for what? Seemed odd to me.

[Michelle Rich]

I went with the kreg system that keeps the screw heads off the top(they go in on an angle ). I get lots of snow and trying to use a snow shovel and catching it on screw heads is not fun.

[Tom M King]

I use the green ones on treated wood that is not going to get coated, and expect that's what they're for.

I use either 8cc, or 16 cc nails for spacers, but you wouldn't want to do that if you flash the tops of the joists like Mark. If the boards are fairly straight, and joists look pretty straight, sometimes I put all the boards down, fasten the ends spaced with whatever the spacer is, and then use wedges to eyeball the space, and run the screws down one joist at a time. This goes a lot faster than screwing each board in place, but I would guess one would need a very practiced eye to get a nice looking job like this, but I can lay tile without spacers.

We just set some new pilings on a 32 year old dock last week, and all the wood was still hard as a rock with no flashing, but that was the old treating process stuff. The decking boards had been put on with both Phillips screws, and some later replacement square drive stainless screws, so we had to break some boards getting them up. One advantage of being able to take the boards out many years later is that the boards can be turned over. The decking boards on this dock all looked like new on the bottoms, even though the tops were checked, and split. We had to replace some that could have been flipped if the screws would have allowed removal.

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

Another vote for getting an impact driver. It made a huuuuuge difference for me.

[Robert Engel]

I've used the green Deckmate I believe they are for pressure treated lumber, which around here is green.

Good choice on taking the time to countersink. Especially important on edges.

Couple other suggestions,

1) if you expect the lumber to shrink, butt them together when you install
2) keep the growth rings curving up so any potential cupping is upward this keeps the edges down against the joist.
3) I think sealing even if pressure treated will extend the life of a deck. Wait till the lumber is dry first.

[Günter VögelBerg]

ok, one more thing. For my railing I will be using 4x4 posts and three horizontal rails made of 2x6. I am thinking I will cut 1 inch wide through mortises through the posts to receive the rails with tenons on the ends and put them together with some galvanized finish nails. Will this work? I assume I would need pretty loose tolerances in the green wood. I have never cut a mortise in green wood. I would be using my Powermatic hollow chisel mortiser.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

+1 for ceramic coated T25 screws. Whichever brand you like. They come in different colors. I drove 660 deck screws and not one T25 ramped out. I have had square drives ramp out a few times.

[Bradley Gray]

I assume I would need pretty loose tolerances in the green wood

Since M & T are both green and the same species both should shrink about the same so go ahead and fit as usual.

[Günter VögelBerg]

Since M & T are both green and the same species both should shrink about the same so go ahead and fit as usual.

Should I use glue? If so what kind? Titebond 3?

[Tom M King]

I keep clear treated lumber drying for years to make handrails, and such, out of. These 8x8 posts had just come from the treating plant when I smoothed them by walking a drum floor sander on them. The railings were made from dry stuff that I knew would now stay straight. I made router templates to cut the mortises. Handrail sections were put together, and after a corner post was set, a section of railing was put in place, then the next post, and so on-no fasteners412182412183.

These pictures were taken 27 years after I built that house. I should have brushed the spider webs down, but didn't. I doubt these pictures do you any good, but anyway, I remembered where the pictures were. The wrap all the way around this house with a copper roof porch has flooring installed with the first two types of hidden fasteners ever made. I use hidden fasteners on porches, but not decks.

[Mark W Pugh]

Hi Gunter,

The last time I built a deck I used square drive stainless from McFeeley like Steve, although I did countersink. I love the look but you should know that the SS screws are soft and you'll have to fuss with a few. I think the Deckmates Tom mentioned would be a good choice too.

Sorry if this was already recommended, but did you put Bituthene over the tops of the joists? This will provide additional protection over and above using treated lumber.

https://ian.macky.net/house/deck_bitchathane2.jpg


Cheers,
Mark

What other options have you guys used besides Bituthene?

[Darcy Warner]

GRK Screws.

[Erik Loza]

Should I use glue? If so what kind? Titebond 3? I've never thought of using glue, mostly because the wood is so wet when you get it. Does anyone do it?


GRK Screws. +1 for GRK fasteners. Pretty much all I use for exterior projects.

Erik

[Tom M King]

For you guys that like the GRK multi-purpose screws, try a box of the newest version Deckmate screws. I like the GRK structural, and cabinet hanging screws. I had a falling out with the last version of Deckmates, but this latest version (with the black labels on the boxes), is better than their first version, and Way better than their last version. They start, and drive as good as the GRK multi-purpose, but have a much better, and longer lasting finish. I think they stole parts of the design from GRK.

I have some of everything in our horse fencing, some of which is over 30 years old. Some just for trials, and nothing has held up as good as the Deckmates.

[Paul F Franklin]

I use self adhesive flashing tape, like you would use to seal window or door flanges to the WRB.

[Bradley Gray]

Should I use glue? If so what kind? Titebond 3?

I would use a moisture-cure glue like Gorilla Glue or use screws instead - you might need to take it apart someday.