Exasperated with Fine Woodworking Magazine!

[Derek Cohen]

About 10 days ago I received an email to say that my on-line subscription with FWW magazine could not be renewed as the credit card details were incorrect. I checked, and they were up to date.

I have been a longstanding on-line member and paying a low fee ($19.95) because of this. To renew, I now have to pay the full fee ($99). So I contact Customer Service, who send me a form reply after 2 days to say I should log in and renew my account. I explain that I am an existing customer, and wish to continue the discounted rate. Two days later there is another form email ton say that they have discontinued the old subscription and replaced with a new super duper version for everyone. Well, why did they not say so in the first place?

Now I decide that, what the Hell, I shall subscribe at the new rate. It is only money and you cannot take it with you. I enter my details and country (Australia), and then am asked for my state. This is where it all comes to a grinding halt as only USA states are displayed. I try this every which way ... but only USA states are displayed. (I have completed similar forms on other websites - I am not a doofus).

I contact Customer Support again, explaining the situation, and begging that they take my money. Two days later I get another form email, explaining that I need to log and and renew my account. OK, perhaps something has changed in the past two days. So I log on again. Same as before - I can be resident of Wyoming but never Western Australia. OK, I have a new idea ... I'll go in and sign up as a brand new subscriber! Yeah right ... same again. Apparently no one resides outside the USA in states with names that are dissimilar to those in the USA.

I have emailed Customer Service one last time. What do you think that they will reply?

I wonder if the penny will drop when all international subscribers suddenly stop being subscribers ...?!

Regards from Perth

Derek (hoping that FWW magazine are reading this)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Just a wild guess Derek, but I think you'll get a form reply in about 2 days?

[James Pallas]

lol Derek, very soon the cyber machine will make the connection and you will get 3 subscriptions and your card will get the charges. About a year from now you may get it all straightened out, just enough time to start all over again.��
Jim

[Derek Cohen]

Here's another oddity ...

If you connect to the Customer Service web page, there is a box "make a payment". Now if you attempt to make a payment (to subscribe), you are asked to first sign in. If you sign in, the "make a payment" box disappears.

Their web designer must have trained in sadism.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Joel David Katz]

Derek...

I was told when renewing my subscription (a couple of months ago) that my dual subscription (to the magazine and website) was "grandfathered in" and I would not have to move to the new subscription model. I suggest you use skype to call them during business hours and speak to a real human being to get this resolved.

- David

[lowell holmes]

I would send a certified letter to the editors of the magazine.
I still take it, but like all the other woodworking magazines, it is a mere shadow of it self.

I guess it is difficult to to come up with new material. A recent magazine (not Fine Woodworking) has an article using concrete.
I probably will not renew it. Maybe they read these forums.

[roger wiegand]

Wiegand's First Law of Retail: "Make it easy for people to give you money"

Somehow this one seems to have been missed among the Ferenghi Rules of Acquisition (https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Ferengi_Rules_of_Acquisition), so I'm claiming it.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Maybe FWW recognizes the dwindling number of print mags and are trying to monetize things while they can?

[Don Peters]

Derek,
It's definitely not only you that's problems with them. And it's not just FWW. I have several subscriptions to Taunton publications, and they're universally screwed up. And they don't seem to be aware of it nor give a damn. Frustrating that their bean counters can't do a better job of supporting the excellent writers and editors that actually create that income stream.

[Paul Saffold]

I suspect that FWW has hired someone from Popular Woodworking Magazine.....

[Ted Reischl]

You guys got it all wrong!

We are starting to deal with what some nitwits like to call "Artificial Intelligence". The marketing types really love that term. It solves lots of problems for them. Obviously their programming has more "intelligence" than the customer base. So that means they are doing everything the right way because, well, their "AI" told them so.

It seems that no one has explained to them the definition of "Crazy": Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That is what "AI" computer programs do, the same thing, over and over. They are anything but intelligent.

[glenn bradley]

Their web designer must have trained in sadism.

:D Alas, their web designer may not know that a country named Australia exists. I.T.'s race to the bottom continues. I retired a few years too late and carry a lot of bitterness about the collapse of pride and quality in the industry. I.T. is not alone in this today, of course.

I feel your pain and SWMBO has learned to ignore my verbal railings against the various disciplines of I.T. 'professionals' she hears coming from down the hall when I am online. I grow weary of people who are unaware of the scale of the planet and the scope of their responsibilities.

We often used simple litmus tests to weed out individuals who had disguised themselves as professionals. These are the folks who have hacked a career history by being their previous employer's "computer guy" just because they stayed up late playing video games or could get a printer to work most of the time.

Giveaways used to be things like the absence of use of the 24 hour clock (it must be 17:00 hours somewhere) or the use of physical location designators including the numbers zero and one (easily confused with the letters O and I and therefor omitted).

But, time marches on and the current wave of talent have brought with them many wonderful leaps forward along with their sloppy work methods. The 'race for cash' of the dot-coms catapulted us forward. Anyone who watches Star Trek knows the dangers of too much technology in the hands of those ill-prepared to use it.

OMG! I've become that cranky old man in the neighborhood who yells at the kids to 'get off my lawn!'. :D:D:D. Just so y'all don't think I'm that guy . . . Although the folks that brought you the '57 Chevy Bel Air did a great job, I do realize they would be of minimal value at Tesla.

[Frederick Skelly]

Glenn,
I get it Sir. And there's nothing wrong with being angry that the high professional standards you upheld have declined so miserably. You know what an I.T. Pro is supposed to be.

On the lighter side, were drinking Mountain Dew and living in their Mom's basement/garage other "giveaways" ? :) :) :)

Fred

[Malcolm McLeod]

... I can be resident of Wyoming ... Texas would be better.

So a big WELCOME!! And when will you be moving? I think I can get you a deal on the house 2 doors down, if I can come watch you work - - occasionally. ;)

....Amazing the things we'll do for a good read.

[Rob Lee]

Glenn,

I remember looking forward to new processors, and software upgrades....now I just want it all to stay the same....

That makes me officially old too....

Cheers,

Rob
( who programmed in assembler for IBM as a co-op student)

[glenn bradley]

other "giveaways" ? :) :) :)

Fred

Sure, absolutely no clue as to what a Job Stream is; the last few jobs I had, no one knew what was running at what time in the data centers so resource management was nonexistent.

The general misconception that a faster clock speed makes your network better. Delivering your payload ten-times faster to your sluggish application will not help you.

And my ultimate favorite . . . “it’s the network”.

[Tony Zaffuto]

What is being experience in IT, is not exclusive to IT. I swear our job market applicants are Forrest Gump like in their experience-have been around enough to talk a good story, but grossly under perform. When you check their employer for a reference, you get a glowing recommendation, most likely because they want rid of the goomer.

[Bob Glenn]

Do what I did, stop sending them money. It just encourages them.

[lowell holmes]

Both Fine Woodworking and Popular Woodworking have fallen, fallen, fallen, sigh . . . . ......

Oh well, I have old copies I can read.

[Edwin Santos]

Both Fine Woodworking and Popular Woodworking have fallen, fallen, fallen, sigh . . . . ......

Oh well, I have old copies I can read.

If you're like some of us old dogs, you probably won't remember what you read in the oldest issues, so you can keep cycling through the collection and always be reading new content.
Think of it as a forever subscription, kind of like Willy Wonka's everlasting gobstopper.

[lowell holmes]

I agree! Lots to do down here and it seldom freezes .

[Jim Koepke]

About 10 days ago I received an email to say that my on-line subscription with FWW magazine could not be renewed as the credit card details were incorrect. I checked, and they were up to date.

[edited]

Now I decide that, what the Hell, I shall subscribe at the new rate. It is only money and you cannot take it with you. I enter my details and country (Australia), and then am asked for my state. This is where it all comes to a grinding halt as only USA states are displayed. I try this every which way ... but only USA states are displayed. (I have completed similar forms on other websites - I am not a doofus).

I contact Customer Support again, explaining the situation, and begging that they take my money. Two days later I get another form email, explaining that I need to log and and renew my account. OK, perhaps something has changed in the past two days. So I log on again. Same as before - I can be resident of Wyoming but never Western Australia. OK, I have a new idea ... I'll go in and sign up as a brand new subscriber! Yeah right ... same again. Apparently no one resides outside the USA in states with names that are dissimilar to those in the USA.

I have emailed Customer Service one last time. What do you think that they will reply?

I wonder if the penny will drop when all international subscribers suddenly stop being subscribers ...?!

Regards from Perth

Derek (hoping that FWW magazine are reading this)



Good help is hard to find.

Maybe you could just pick your favorite state from the menu. If the folks are not aware enough about other places in the world, maybe they won't notice you just moved Wyoming half way around the world.

Since it is a digital subscription it shouldn't affect delivery.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

I see what you mean. Both publications now suck. :(

[Jim Koepke]

If you're like some of us old dogs, you probably won't remember what you read in the oldest issues, so you can keep cycling through the collection and always be reading new content.
Think of it as a forever subscription, kind of like Willy Wonka's everlasting gobstopper.

As an owner of many of the old issues, my grandson is reading an article in an old edition from September/October 1981 about building stairs. We are building a couple of porches for the house and have to build some stairs. This article alone covers almost 10 pages

This edition also has an article about making a float from a worn out file.

An article on carving and another on carving tips and tricks.

There is also an article on making panel raising planes.

There is a review of a cabinet makers tool chest and a bunch more.

Even though these old editions are all black & white they seem to have so much more inside than the current editions.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Some good news.

First I received an email from FWW to say that they had modified the on-line form to include Australia.

Then I received more welcome info. This one shows that it pays to have friends in high places. Rob Lee emailed me to say he had a word with FWW about the situation (since my complaint was not just about my situation, but that it must be affecting many others, and ultimately FWW). Soon after this, FWW contacted me to say that I had been reinstated as a Legacy Customer (paying $19.95 for on-line membership, which is about access to videos, archives, and PDFs of past editions).

Hopefully, this will help others in the same situation as well.

Thanks Rob.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Manning]

That's great news Derek. However, it's a shame that it took that level of effort from you and from Rob Lee to get an adequate response from FWW. From what you've posted it was never clear to me if your "contact" with FWW was via phone or email. Either way it is sad that no one from FWW ever took ownership of your problem and ensured it got resolved.

[Derek Cohen]

Mike, Ben Strano, FWW editor, messaged me to say that he had contacted admin as well. He admitted that there were problems with the on-line methods that needed sorting out. I am hoping this helps others as well.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Randy Heinemann]

The first question is whether you are still interested in subscribing to FWW under their new structure. I find the Unlimited subscription useful. However, I live in the US and didn't have any problems upgrading to it.

If you are still interested you might try to get in contact with Ben Strano at Fine Woodworking as he is their web guy; at least for most web things. Try submitting a comment to shoptalk@taunton.com. Ben is the one who monitors this and, at the very least, he will forward your problem to someone who can help.

The FWW Customer Support people aren't always the best. I have had some problems with them also, but usually they can solve your problems.

It's too bad you've had these problems as I think the the Unlimited subscription has been worthwhile. It allows me access to a lot of information on techniques, plans, and just general woodworking information that sometimes comes in very handy when I encounter something I just haven't before.

[Frederick Skelly]

That's great Derek! Thanks for letting us know.
Fred

[Dennis Droege]

Derek, I had exactly the same experience with them--didn't register a new credit card and lost my discount. Called customer service and couldn't get anything but that I should re-enlist for 99.00.
I'm gonna miss them.

[Derek Cohen]

Dennis, email Ben Strano. He seems up to speed with all this, and says he is happy to assist subscribers.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Christoph Schmitz]

Hi Derek,

as you say: I hope FWW folks are reading this. I had similar experiences with FWW as an international subscriber which may be summarized as: their CRM (customer relationship management) sucks.


I keep getting asked to please buy this product or that product that I have bought already. FWW should know since I bought it through their site.
Credit card problems (in my case the card had actually expired) cannot be fixed since there is no way to do so in the user interface.
It is quite unclear where I am expected to login to update stuff such as credit card details (on fww.com? taunton.com? ...?)
Mails to FWW asking for help or pointing out problems seem to end up directly in the trash, or you get meaningless responses.

So again, FWW, if you are reading this, please either update your CRM software and your web site, or make sure that mails get read by actual humans.

Regards,
Christoph

[Ben Strano]

Hey all,

Derek does in fact have friends in high places. But for the rest of us mortals, you should rest assured that Derek's issues were resolved through our own channels before Robin's message got to us. Derek left a comment on our site's forum. Unfortunately, it was on the weekend. As soon as I came in on Monday, I saw the post, and go the wheels turning. We have a lot of things we need to work on here, and we're constantly trying to do better. If anyone has ever hit a wall with our customer service, I personally apologize, and if you send me an email at bstrano@taunton.com, I'll do my absolute best to set things right.

We appreciate everyone hanging in there with us.

Ben Strano
FWW Digital Brand Manager
bstrano@taunton.com

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks once again, Ben.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Herv Peairs]

As an owner of many of the old issues, my grandson is reading an article in an old edition from September/October 1981 about building stairs. We are building a couple of porches for the house and have to build some stairs. This article alone covers almost 10 pages

...

Even though these old editions are all black & white they seem to have so much more inside than the current editions.

jtk

I tried the free digital trial of FWW, but one of the reasons I took up hand tool woodworking was to escape from the computer, which rules my day job, and frankly, their digital portal leaves something to be desired. This post gave me the idea of maybe buying some old issues on ebay as pleasure reading. So I have two questions: (in your opinion) what's the golden era of FWW, and do hand tools get considered much in the 70's, 80's, etc.? I don't mind too much if they don't, just curious.

Herv

[Jim Koepke]

I tried the free digital trial of FWW, but one of the reasons I took up hand tool woodworking was to escape from the computer, which rules my day job, and frankly, their digital portal leaves something to be desired. This post gave me the idea of maybe buying some old issues on ebay as pleasure reading. So I have two questions: (in your opinion) what's the golden era of FWW, and do hand tools get considered much in the 70's, 80's, etc.? I don't mind too much if they don't, just curious.

Herv

Hand tools do come into more use in the issues of the 70's and 80's. There is still some power tool usage. One letter to the editor does complain about all the hand tool usage by some of the writers when many jobs would be more efficient with power tools.

One of my favorites from the old issues is there were often articles on hand carving moldings. Things such as how to take a reed or bead cut by a plane like the Stanley #45 and using a carving gouge to turn it into decorative dots. Another showed how to make egg & dart molding.

It is also kind of fun to look at the old Highland Hardware ads. One from the issue mentioned earlier shows a Record #7 for $75 including the shipping.

jtk

[Ted Calver]

....I'll do my absolute best to set things right. ....

Thanks for weighing in, Ben....and welcome to the creek!

[Dennis Droege]

Thanks, Derek, I will.

[Frank Pratt]

Sort of a similar situation for me. My online only sub lapsed because of the credit card expiring and by the time I got around to renewing, they only had the all-in subscription. I emailed customer service about it, but they were no help at all & said I was stuck with the new plan or nothing. I chose nothing.

I understand why folks want a paper mag, but many don't. The idea of having a magazine being printed on high quality paper, shipped across the continent, read for a month, and then thrown away is frankly repugnant to me. At least give people the option.

[J. Greg Jones]

Sort of a similar situation for me. My online only sub lapsed because of the credit card expiring and by the time I got around to renewing, they only had the all-in subscription. I emailed customer service about it, but they were no help at all & said I was stuck with the new plan or nothing. I chose nothing.

I understand why folks want a paper mag, but many don't. The idea of having a magazine being printed on high quality paper, shipped across the continent, read for a month, and then thrown away is frankly repugnant to me. At least give people the option.
That’s very similar to what happened to me. I had the iPad version of the magazine subscription which entitled me to get the remaining online content for another $14.95, and when my cc expired I was then unable to get grandfathered in for what I previously had. I have no plan to pay $100 a year to basically get what I once had for less than $50 a year.

[Ben Strano]

Sort of a similar situation for me. My online only sub lapsed because of the credit card expiring and by the time I got around to renewing, they only had the all-in subscription. I emailed customer service about it, but they were no help at all & said I was stuck with the new plan or nothing. I chose nothing.

I understand why folks want a paper mag, but many don't. The idea of having a magazine being printed on high quality paper, shipped across the continent, read for a month, and then thrown away is frankly repugnant to me. At least give people the option.

Frank,

I hear ya. Just so you know, you can opt out of the print.


That’s very similar to what happened to me. I had the iPad version of the magazine subscription which entitled me to get the remaining online content for another $14.95, and when my cc expired I was then unable to get grandfathered in for what I previously had. I have no plan to pay $100 a year to basically get what I once had for less than $50 a year.

J. Greg,

If you like, shoot me an email and we'll get you set back up. bstrano@taunton.com

[Charles Guest]

If FW will play its cards correctly they'll be the last mag standing, they almost are anyway, but I agree with others there are problems with the website. I'd love not to be asked to become a premium subscriber after I've logged in, since I already am one. The first time this happened, I didn't go any further since I thought something was wrong, so I e-mailed customer service and of course never heard back. A few days later, after I'd checked my bank account to see the funds coming out for the subscription, I logged back in and went about my business with the full access to the site that I had paid for. But the advertisements to subscribe happen unabated to this day even when I'm logged in.

It obviously pretty short-sighted to build an online payment function that can't accommodate a subscriber from outside the United States, given that their potential market is the entire English-speaking world. That this apparently lasted for more than a day or so before being discovered and fixed leaves me feeling concerned about FW's future. It's being run on a shoestring it would appear. Sounds like PW, and Woodworker's Journal.

Don't throw your old print mags out just yet if you're counting on full access to all the old articles through the website, that or buy the CD they offer, in preparation for the worst.

I'm not encouraged.

In this day and time, a website needs to be the essence of perfection or it just damages your brand.

[lowell holmes]

I just tried to subscribe to the magazine on line and it was denied. I know the card is a good card, so obviously they are screwed up big time.
If they do not clean up their act, they will be history.

[Ben Strano]

I just tried to subscribe to the magazine on line and it was denied. I know the card is a good card, so obviously they are screwed up big time.
If they do not clean up their act, they will be history.

Lowell, I immediately replied to your email with questions about the situation. This is the first time that I've heard of this issue, and I understand your frustration. However, it is possible that there was a momentary error in the system or something.

[Frank Pratt]

Frank,

I hear ya. Just so you know, you can opt out of the print.



Ben, I was specifically told by customer service that there was no online only option.

[Mike Manning]

It would appear the train is coming off the tracks and there is no engineer in the locomotive.

[Jim Koepke]

It would appear the train is coming off the tracks and there is no engineer in the locomotive.

This is something often seen in organizations where there are different departments trying to do the same thing. The policy decision do not flow to the workers on the front line. They are told one thing and the management above has a different policy and the different departments have their own way of doing things.

It sounds like a mess.

After all my subscriptions expired my choice has to spend a little time at the magazine rack to see if there is anything of interest to me.

Sadly, the items of interest are becoming as rare as the magazine racks that used to be in almost every grocery, hardware and drug store.

jtk

[Ben Strano]

Ben, I was specifically told by customer service that there was no online only option.

Let me look into that, because I was told there was going to be. Please shoot me an email when you can. bstrano@taunton.com

[Brian Glendenning]

The same thing happened to me (credit card expired, I had appeared to lose my access to the grandfathered rate). Customer support fixed me right up (I don't recall if I phoned or emailed). I was actually fairly impressed that the system worked well and fairly (I was expecting to be told this was my fault for having not updated the credit card and was SOL). So - kudos to FWW customer support from me. (I'm definitely a nobody with no from-high interventions).

[J. Greg Jones]

J. Greg,

If you like, shoot me an email and we'll get you set back up. bstrano@taunton.com
Thanks to Ben and the excellent support staff at Fine Woodworking I’m back up and running with my old subscription. The process went much more smoothly than what I would have expected and I’m appreciative of that. Thanks again Ben!

[lowell holmes]

I am not pleased with any of the current woodworking magazines.
I think they have run out of new innovative ideas and techniques, both technical and design.
I do buy and read them though.

[lowell holmes]

I must recant this post. I forgot that I had mailed in a subscription to Fine Woodworking. The first issue came today, and it is fresh with good ideas. I will keep it on the coffee table for awhile. :rolleyes:

[lowell holmes]

Ben,
I received my first issue today and it is an interesting issue. It will stay on my coffee table for awhile.
I recant my earlier post. :rolleyes:

[Pete Taran]

A personal favorite was the article on Belt Sander Basics. Because nothing screams Fine Woodworking more than the subtleties of operating the belt sander.

[Jim Koepke]

A personal favorite was the article on Belt Sander Basics. Because nothing screams Fine Woodworking more than the subtleties of operating the belt sander.

LOL!

The sander screams... and screams and screams.

Since learning better plane techniques and sharpening my use of sandpaper has dropped considerably.

jtk

[Pat Barry]

A personal favorite was the article on Belt Sander Basics. Because nothing screams Fine Woodworking more than the subtleties of operating the belt sander.

Why not? Very useful tool for roughing work. Or were they discussing finishing applications?

[Randy Heinemann]

A personal favorite was the article on Belt Sander Basics. Because nothing screams Fine Woodworking more than the subtleties of operating the belt sander.

Who among us has never experimented with a belt sander when we didn't have access to the tools that would do the best job possible. If you're careful and conservative on how you use it, a belt sander can work as a starting point. The finishing can come after flattening a board or leveling out a glue joint.

While you and I may have all the tools necessary to avoid using a belt sander,, many beginning woodworkers don't.

[Frank Pratt]

I wouldn't look down my nose at a belt sander any more than I would a Black & Decker Workmate. Both are very useful, if not high brow, tools.

[Pete Taran]

Randy,

I've never experimented with a belt sander and don't own one. I can't think of any practical use for one frankly. Just stating that articles on belt sanders are not why most folks subscribe to FWW. I think FWW is adrift. Coming next month: Router Shoot Out and Review! YMMV.



Who among us has never experimented with a belt sander when we didn't have access to the tools that would do the best job possible. If you're careful and conservative on how you use it, a belt sander can work as a starting point. The finishing can come after flattening a board or leveling out a glue joint.

While you and I may have all the tools necessary to avoid using a belt sander,, many beginning woodworkers don't.

[steven c newman]

have a "Dragster" B&D beltsander right now, and USE it.

For those big curves that the sabre saw cuts..
413504
To remove those saw marks, and "fair" the curve a bit better.
Or, put an old 100 grit belt on, well worn....clamp the top handle in the vise, and clamp a chisel or plane iron in the honing guide. Lock the sander "On", and remove the hollow grind into a flat grind, AND flatten the backs.

If the "scream" bothers you....wear the ear protection you wear in the shop, anyway.

Nothing cleans up dirty, rough sawn lumber better than a beltsander with some 60 grit belts....beats using my planes, and save the plane irons' edges.

When you can't take the outside jobs to the shop's bench,,,,and Work Mate (type 2) takes the bench to the job. used mine during the front porch project, in fact...
They all have their place...

[Randy Heinemann]

Randy,

I've never experimented with a belt sander and don't own one. I can't think of any practical use for one frankly. Just stating that articles on belt sanders are not why most folks subscribe to FWW. I think FWW is adrift. Coming next month: Router Shoot Out and Review! YMMV.

As a rough flattening tool followed by sound sanding, planing, and finishing; it does work. It takes a little bit of practice but, for those beginners who don’t have access to the tools we all have come to rely on, it can function as that first flattening step. Not everything FWW publishes is of interest to all its subscribers. Seems like they are trying to provide some inexpensive ways for people getting into woodworking to still work with wood. Is that “adrift”? Could be...Or could be an entry point for someone who has an interest in wood and wants to try to make something. Woodworking means something different to each of us. At this point in my life I doubt I’d be satisfied with the result from a belt sander but then I own thousands of dollars of equipment to be sure I can finish something just the way I want. That wasn’t always true and I’d have been glad to read an article from a reputable source that suggested how I could use what I had to work with.

[lowell holmes]

I have had a belt sander for a lot of years. I don't use it often, but when I do, I am sure glad I have it.

[Jim Koepke]

I have had a belt sander for a lot of years. I don't use it often, but when I do, I am sure glad I have it.

My belt sander is used more on metal than on wood.

jtk

[Frederick Skelly]

I was disappointed with the current issue. It took me all of 5 minutes to "read". The only interesting thing was Follansby showing how to weave the seat of a stool.

[Randy Heinemann]

I wouldn’t even think of questioning Christian Becksvoort’s techniques.

[Pete Taran]

Randy,

I'm not questioning his techniques. I know Chris personally (early Independence Tool Customer) and I'm sure he is expert with the belt sander.

What I'm questioning, is the appropriateness of a multi page article about a the belt sander in FINE Woodworking Magazine. Articles on marquetry? Check. Finer point of chopping mortises and gluing up a carcass project? Check. Applying veeneer? Check. Using the belt sander? No check.

Hope this clears it up.


I wouldn’t even think of questioning Christian Becksvoort’s techniques.

[Jack Frederick]

I was in the local RE-Store last week and saw a few of the early FWW mags. The black and white ones. In leafing through them it is remarkable the difference in publishing. The old pages were full of advertising and in many cases those ads were our source of materials and tools. After watching a lot of Norm on the New Yankee WS I began to get into wood. When Norm was on the cover of FWW a hue and cry went up in the letters about the sacrilege of his style of work in the mag. I have to laugh at that as over the years PC, Delta, Grizzly, SS, Lie Nielsen and on and on have gotten a great deal of my dough and it began with NYWS & FWW, so that worked. Survival in paper publishing is exceedingly difficult today. the ads are gone. Some of my favorite mags are gone and I like paper in magazine or book form. They have to survive and that means getting to the younger folks that don't all ready have all the tools and know-how. I am always happy to get to the mailbox and find FWW. I scratch my head on the content frequently, but always find something of value. I guess I'll continue to subscribe. As to the belt sander, well, I equate that to belt sander/adze. Belt sander/Adze. I'll take the adze. You get the same result and I'm better with an adze.

[Frank Pratt]

As to the belt sander, well, I equate that to belt sander/adze. Belt sander/Adze. I'll take the adze. You get the same result and I'm better with an adze.

Sorry Jack, but you lost me there. I can't see the connection between the 2 at all. Different tools for different purposes with completely different surface results.

[Jim Koepke]

Sorry Jack, but you lost me there. I can't see the connection between the 2 at all. Different tools for different purposes with completely different surface results.

Frank, Some folks use the front roller on a belt sander to hollow out areas on seats and such.

jtk

[Frank Pratt]

Ah, thanks Jim. I didn't even consider that.

[Andrew Seemann]

Well, most people would consider Tage Frid to be a fine woodworker, and he was one of the original editors of Fine Woodworking, and he was quite fond of the belt sander, so I guess you could make an argument that a belt sander article would be appropriate for Fine Woodworking. Remember back in the early days of FWW, Danish modern and curved furniture were all the rage, and belt sanders were commonly used to make the curves and flowing lines. I don't particularly like Danish modern, but I probably would consider it "finer" woodworking than the Mission style stuff that I make, that is ever so well geared to machine work. Which was Stickley's point: let the machines do the drudgery, so the craftsman can do the artistry.

[Mel Fulks]

A belt sander can be used to do a good job of sanding doors ,without the cross grain scratches of the coveted "wide belts".
And wide belts usually require two men doing a lot of heavy lifting and walking. Then orbital sanding.

[Eric Danstrom]

I hadn't checked in with this thread for some time and wonder why FWW was still struggling with subscriptions. Best response before the thread breakdown, "I must recant this post. I forgot that I had mailed in a subscription to Fine Woodworking." Lol, those stupid millinials at FWW!

Now we're deep in the evils of belt sanding. I'm worried someone is going to mention how they use a BS for sharpening...will heads explode ;)

[Graham Haydon]

Mel, you make an excellent point. For larger items of woodworking belt sanders can be very usefull. As Fine Woodworking in not a hand tool only publication it makes sense they have an article on the aplication of belts sanders. It must be appreciated that all entry level artiles will be cyclical, for most you'll only ever need to read one of those. To some extent a lot of experienced woodworkers might move away from maganzines. The only section that held my interest was readers contributions of their own projects. Always inspiring!

[Randy Heinemann]

I guess I'd agree that, in fact, since Tage Frid and Christian Becksvoort were or are producers of fine pieces of furniture and cabinetry, it is an appropriate topic for a magazine or book on fine woodworking techniques; just not practiced by everyone. After 45 years of magazines, I would agree, though, that FWW tends to cover a lot of the same subjects repeatedly. However, how many subjects can there be?